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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Libbies... don't bother.
    #1642679 - 06/18/03 05:39 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Most of you probably won't like this article. But I did.

Link


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: Libbies... don't bother. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1642737 - 06/18/03 05:59 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

#edit# Had 2 tabs open and replied to wrong one :smile: #


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


Edited by Edame (06/18/03 06:03 PM)


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OfflinePaid
Pict
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/13/03
Posts: 5,376
Loc: Zone ate
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Libbies... don't bother. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1642748 - 06/18/03 06:04 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The answer is that the West invented three institutions that never existed before: science, democracy, and capitalism





I though that the persians invented science, that the chinese with
there almost world wide trade routes invented capitalism and that
democracy came from the acient greeks?


--------------------



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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Libbies... don't bother. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1642751 - 06/18/03 06:05 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I can see why...

hundreds of thousands of white men died to bring freedom to African Americans ? a group that was not in a position to secure freedom for itself.

the descendants of those who endured servitude and foreign rule are vastly better off than they would have been had their ancestors not endured captivity and European rule.

Oppression and exploitation, however, were not the cause of Western success; they were the fruits of that success.

If oppression and exploitation did not make the West rich and powerful, what did? The answer is that the West invented three institutions that never existed before: science, democracy, and capitalism.

(didn't the greeks have democracy?, the renasance science?)


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Libbies... don't bother. [Re: Paid]
    #1642754 - 06/18/03 06:05 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I though that the persians invented science, that the chinese with
there almost world wide trade routes invented capitalism and that
democracy came from the acient greeks? 




SSHHHHHhhhhhh!!!!!!!! :mad:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Libbies... don't bother. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1642840 - 06/18/03 06:42 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Libbies... don't bother.




I'm gonna give my opinion anyway.  :wink:  While I'm certainly open to this guy's point of view, I don't think he did a very good job at all of making his point, and here's why:

The author starts off by saying "The idea that America and the West grew rich through oppression and exploitation is strongly held among many intellectuals and activists."  So far I agree with him.

Then he makes a case that slavery didn't put the West ahead of any other countries whatsoever.  I still agree with him.

But that's it!  He never bothers talking about modern day oppression and exploitation, which is exactly what intellectuals and activists are talking about!  That pretty much makes his argument invalid (unless slavery is the only form of oppression and expoitation). 

He concludes by saying the West grew rich through science, democracy, and capitalism.  Fair enough, I'll even agree with him there.  The problem is that oppression and exploitation are an inherent part of capitalism. 


--------------------


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Libbies... don't bother. [Re: Cornholio]
    #1642905 - 06/18/03 07:08 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

He never bothers talking about modern day oppression and exploitation, which is exactly what intellectuals and activists are talking about!



Bingo!

The problem is, the oppression and exploitation are being caused by the so called intellectuals and activists treating minorities like incompetent buffoons who are incapable of standing on their own two feet.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Libbies... don't bother. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1642914 - 06/18/03 07:10 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

you mean like how we had to "liberate" them Iraqis because they're incapable of standing on their own two feet?



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Libbies... don't bother. [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1642922 - 06/18/03 07:13 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

While I don't recall mentioning the Iraqis, I also don't recall anyone beating, raping, and slaughtering the poor in this country.

Perhaps you could point out where mass graves have been dug up in the US?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Libbies... don't bother. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1642936 - 06/18/03 07:17 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

hey I'm just pointing out an inconsitency on your part.
on one hand, you say that people should be able to stand on their own two feet. but you have suggested that some people are incapable of helping themselves so they need some good ole fashioned "liberating"

maybe the Iraqis should have been given a chance at self-determination. aren't you conservatives big on that concept? that's what I hear..


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Libbies... don't bother. [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1642949 - 06/18/03 07:23 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

infidelGOD said:
hey I'm just pointing out an inconsitency on your part.
on one hand, you say that people should be able to stand on their own two feet. but you have suggested that some people are incapable of helping themselves so they need some good ole fashioned "liberating"

maybe the Iraqis should have been given a chance at self-determination. aren't you conservatives big on that concept? that's what I hear..




Perhaps you'd be good enough to show me where I said that?



--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Libbies... don't bother. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1642959 - 06/18/03 07:28 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I said you suggested that some people are incapable of helping themselves. I don't have time to do a search but I remember you saying something to that effect.

why do you always have to say things like "where did I say that?" when it's clear what you meant. OK so I didn't use your EXACT words... but it's not like I'm quoting out of context or misrepresenting anything. you should take your own advice and lighten up.


Edited by infidelGOD (06/18/03 07:50 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Libbies... don't bother. [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1642974 - 06/18/03 07:35 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I don't have time to do a search but I remember you saying something to that effect.



I have two suggestions.

1. Don't say what you can't back up.
2. Give up drugs and or alcohol because I said/suggested no such thing.

Quote:

but it's not like I'm quoting out of context or misrepresenting anything.



Actually, you are.

Quote:

you should take your own advice and lighten up.



^ ^ ^ *snort*


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Libbies... don't bother. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1642993 - 06/18/03 07:46 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Bingo!

The problem is, the oppression and exploitation are being caused by the so called intellectuals and activists treating minorities like incompetent buffoons who are incapable of standing on their own two feet.


Actually, I was talking about the exploitation that occurs when a worker makes $1000 worth of a product for his company, and the company compensates him with $5 for his efforts.  And the oppression that occurs when CEOs run for public office to ensure our tax dollars make them rich, at the expense of society as a whole.  But I'm sure you knew that's what I was talking about.  :heart: 


--------------------


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Libbies... don't bother. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1643004 - 06/18/03 07:50 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

maybe I had you confused with another warmonger. it must be easy not having an opinion, just bashing others...


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Libbies... don't bother. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1643019 - 06/18/03 07:57 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I thought the west got rich by stepping on the backs of the poor? :smirk:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Libbies... don't bother. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1643024 - 06/18/03 07:59 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

the poor who aren't really poor and shouldn't whine?


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Libbies... don't bother. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1643336 - 06/19/03 02:17 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
While I don't recall mentioning the Iraqis, I also don't recall anyone beating, raping, and slaughtering the poor in this country.

Perhaps you could point out where mass graves have been dug up in the US?




um... dude, what are you talking about? there are mass graves all over this country....

it's certainly true that westerners didn't invent slavery... but that doesn't have anything to do with the "exploitation thesis". what other people do is irrelevant, as the author pointed out, our philosophies held (hold) slavery to be immoral while other philosophies didn't (don't). regardless, the western world is unique in it's total disregard for the culture and welfare of conquered/ slaves. india's culture wasn't decinated until the british. Native american's took slaves, but never annihilated each other. etc. etc.

not to mention all of the people who WOULD be better off if not for imperialism.... africa wasn't always the hell hole it is today, much of the poverty their is because IMF and WTO bullshit prevents them from exporting their way out of poverty.

and what about hawaiians, samoans, mahori people? they where living in paradise until the white man brought all of his problems.


no reparations, whites should just have to go back where they came from. yes, I'm serious.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Libbies... don't bother. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1643603 - 06/19/03 04:34 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

While I don't recall mentioning the Iraqis, I also don't recall anyone beating, raping, and slaughtering the poor in this country

Go to a library. Find the section on union history and black history. Pick up a book. (If you don't know how to open a book, ask someone to help you) Read.

You are in for a tremendous shock.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Libbies... don't bother. [Re: Malachi]
    #1643702 - 06/19/03 05:58 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

um... dude, what are you talking about? there are mass graves all over this country....



Really? So sometime in the last 100 - 150 years the government of the US has tortured, beaten, raped and killed large amounts of it's people and buried them in a mass grave?

Perhaps you could show me where?



--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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