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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company)
    #1641866 - 06/18/03 11:32 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Great new hybridized mushrooms by mating monokaryotic mycelium under microscope. I have put alot of thought into this idea. I have concluded that if you mate mushroom two types of strong producing psilocybin monokaryotic mycelium together (under a microscope). You will get strong psilocybin mushrooms with strong hybrid vigor. I have deeply thought that mycelium mating of P. Azurescens (Hammond) and P. Cyanescens under a microscope. Will result in a hybrid vigor mushroom with a wavy pointy cap with a woody stalk and turns black when handled. Plus strong potency and with both parents being highly visual trips.
This mushroom will be a great combo who seek high yielding mushrooms (outdoors). With very strong psilocybin content that will make any tripper drool...
It will be a revelation in outdoor magic mushroom growing.
But first you have to mate the monokaryotic mycelium together under a microscope (until you get enough for a culture and get prints etc..).

Maybe Workman and the Spore works company could work on this idea with there spores.

This could be a new strain for people who seek the ultimate outdoor growing experience. Someone should really look into trying this project..

All the spore should be purchased at Sporeworks.

Please tell me your thoughts and comments are welcome.


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Invisiblefailbot999
Registered: 02/18/02
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Re: New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company) [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1641977 - 06/18/03 12:20 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Im not 100% positive, but isnt that like trying to mate a pine tree with an oak tree (edit: meaning it cant happen)?


Edited by failbot999 (06/18/03 12:22 PM)


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company) [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1642053 - 06/18/03 12:47 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I'm sure workman and company know how mushrooms mate, and if this was easily possible it would have been done by now, don't you think? Do you really think they needed you to tell them this, and here?


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company) [Re: Raadt]
    #1642369 - 06/18/03 03:05 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I doubt it could be done by any conventional (ie complementary nutrient difficiency) means because they are different species. This would be something possible by protoplast fusion, though, I would think.

(refer to end of "is this possible" thread.)

--
Micro


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Invisiblephobey
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Re: New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company) [Re: micro]
    #1643629 - 06/19/03 04:58 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

this can?t be done the azure and pan are to complete different species its like mating a dog with a cat. Crossing 2 cubensis strains should be no prob. or a pan cyan with pan sub should give no probs either i guess never done it myself tho.



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Offlinemesq
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Re: New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company) [Re: micro]
    #1643632 - 06/19/03 04:59 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

As far as I was aware I thought the whole reason the two SPECIES were separated is because of the fact that they CANNOT mate..


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company) [Re: phobey]
    #1643746 - 06/19/03 06:36 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

he is suggesting hybridizing psilocybe cyanasens and psilocybe azureasens, theres no "pan" about it. thats an entire other genus, an entire other family actually.
psilocybe azureasens and cyanasens are nearly the same speceis, for a long time they were considered variations of the same speceis.
i however beleive this will be a fruitless endevour, these mushrooms often fruit in common beds and still there is no natural hybrid strain, it stands to reason that in a million years it should have happaned already. one could argue that the pure strains over run the hybrids so they get over run and starve, and that isolation of mycelium that you know to have crossed from 2 specie would result in hybridization.... but it wont work, for starters how the hell are you supposed to know what mycelium came from what spore? follow the threads back to the side of the petri dish? its laughable. the two speceis have identical mycelium and can easily find a mycil from one of their own speceis to mate with. maybe if you started with only one spore from each type and assumed that any fruiting would have to be a successful hybrid.
but it just doesnt seem possible


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company) [Re: mesq]
    #1643942 - 06/19/03 09:05 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

There are some different species that can mate and produce offspring, but their offspring will always be sterile. (Donkey, horse, mule, etc...)

If the same holds through to the mushroom world, would a hybrid even produce fruitbodies?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company) [Re: Seuss]
    #1644167 - 06/19/03 11:15 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe. but, paul stamets absolutely denies producing a azure/cubie hybrid.


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
Divine state

Registered: 06/18/03
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Re: New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company) [Re: Seuss]
    #1644255 - 06/19/03 11:45 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Mitchnast - Thats the point im trying to get across. Thanks that you made that understood. Psilocybe cyanasens and Psilocybe Azurescens have very identical mycelium. Ya to start with one spore from each species.
But you need to have sterile lab conditions with humindity control, soaked saw dust, week soaked woodchips, temp control, high air exchange, high nitrogen levels, hepa filters and lights. With the right indoor sterile conditions it will give the culture a higher chances of surviving.

I think that research needs to be put into mating.



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Invisiblephobey
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Re: New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company) [Re: Mitchnast]
    #1644449 - 06/19/03 12:53 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mitchnast said:
he is suggesting hybridizing psilocybe cyanasens and psilocybe azureasens, theres no "pan" about it. thats an entire other genus, an entire other family actually.





Oops thought he meant the pan cyan. My mistake!


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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company) [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1646700 - 06/20/03 01:47 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

There is a scientific paper out there in which (Gartz) the scientist proved that Ps. cyan's and Ps. azure's do not mate. He applied the same method you suggest (monokaryon mating).

A large part of the definition of species is that two different species are not able to mate and produce viable offspring. There are exceptions. Perhaps it would take 100,000,000,000 matings to what you suggest and others have already tried. And to be verified, both monokaryons must have been sequenced to verify their specie previous to mating. All in all, the work would be very time consuming and expensive.

Right now the means are not readily available to tackle the task you speak of.

In edible mushrooms, two strains of the same specie are often mated to attept to make a better hybrid strain. Even with this method the actual success of a breeding a superior hybrid is very low according to Stamets.

Joshua


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Edited by Joshua (06/20/03 10:48 PM)


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company) [Re: Joshua]
    #1647516 - 06/20/03 08:47 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

On a genetic level it can be done i'm sure ;-) maybe all that is needed is a trigger of some sort? look at how far genetics has come in the last ten years! Almost nothing is impossible!! we just need to find the key that unlocks the door of possibilities ;-)


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company) [Re: hyphae]
    #1647572 - 06/20/03 09:26 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

We know that it's possible to build a rocket and fly to Mars, but I doubt you can make it in your back yard with parts from the car dump.


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company) [Re: zeronio]
    #1647604 - 06/20/03 10:04 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

You all have very good points.
We need genetic research for hybridizing mushrooms.
Some lab should fund an experiment in mushroom genetics.
Studying the genetic code could be the key to unlock this mystery.
The mushroom community needs to find a lab where they can test genetic research.

This will be key in altering with psilocybin genetics.
Maybe one day they can genetically enhance the psilocybin production, fruit size and shape. Then a new chapter would start in mushroom technology.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company) [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1647727 - 06/20/03 11:24 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Gartz demonstrated that the spores of Azurescens, Cyanescens and Bohemica were not compatible - delineating them into three different entities.
Mitchnast points was that Azurescens and Cyanescen's mycelia looks the same - since isozyme protein analysis and spore compatibility indicated that they were not compatible, the mycelia is inherently different at a genetic level. Therefore creating a hybrid would require the time and effort required to try and stick a microscopic square into a round hole. And this is unlikely to outperform the squares in square-holes and circles in circular holes (figuratively!).
If biology was as simple as sticking two spores from different species together and getting only favourable results we would all have donkey dicks and wings.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company) [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1647730 - 06/20/03 11:28 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Your quite right Mitchnast - there is a school of mycology that placed all members of the Psilocybe genus family Cyanescens into that entity. (not only Azurescens, but Bohemica, Arcana, Subaeruginosa). But spore compatibility - with the exception of Subaeruginosa - and isozyme analysis demonstrated they were seperate entities. ANd they do have consistant microscopic differences too. (although so does cyanescens itself between Europe and America)


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company) [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1647768 - 06/20/03 11:58 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Of interest:
http://www.museocivico.rovereto.tn.it/pubblicazioni/Annale12/art11_gartz.pdf

Also from http://www.tacethno.com/info/psilocybe/astoria.txt :

"Complete reproductive barriers have been found be one of the authors (Jochen Gartz) between Psilocybe azurescens and P. bohemica as well as between P. azurescens and Pacific Northwest European collections of P.cyanescens."


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company) [Re: Anno]
    #1647988 - 06/20/03 01:48 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

What about Panaeolus Cyanescens hybridizing to Panaeolus Subbalteatus?
Is it possible? That would be an interesting strain indeed.

The mushroom community has to create some new potent hybrids for public release.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: New potent hybrid (Workman and Spore works company) [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1648092 - 06/20/03 02:28 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

>The mushroom community has to create some new potent hybrids for public release.

Why?
Are the mushrooms you can grow nowadays not strong enough for you?
I have a solution: double the dose!


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