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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Re: Has the universe been shown to be a fractal? [Re: DieCommie]
    #16376403 - 06/13/12 02:23 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Fractals:
Quote:

A fractal is a mathematical set that has a fractal dimension that usually exceeds its topological dimension[1] and may fall between the integers.[2] Fractals are typically self-similar patterns, where self-similar means they are "the same from near as from far"[3] Fractals may be exactly the same at every scale, or as illustrated in Figure 1, they may be nearly the same at different scales.[2][4][5][6] The definition of fractal goes beyond self-similarity per se to exclude trivial self-similarity and include the idea of a detailed pattern repeating itself.[2]:166; 18[4][7]




I dont think you can say fractals themselves are infinite or not, its not a descriptor that applies.  You have to say what property exactly you are talking about.




So basically as long as you are zooming in on a 2d layer of patterns, the pattern should then repeat itself, but at a different distance from the other layer? Basically getting a new 2d pattern, because the image became more detailed when the portion of the original pattern was magnified. And my guess is that when you don't zoom in on a pattern you get a void?


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"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

Edited by dustinthewind13 (06/13/12 02:31 PM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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holographic memory [Re: GoreTuzk]
    #16376749 - 06/13/12 03:47 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

GoreTuzk said:
<......removed info check above if necessary.......>

There's evidence suggesting our brains use that method in associative memory and unscrambling the sensory information into perception and locomotion (vision is obviously a projected hologram and acoustic discernment has been shown to work the same way: interference patterns).

<..............info removed.......>




I utterly agree that experience (not information) is stored in the brain holographically in the sense that a memory's engram pervades the range of the whole cerebral cortex and, if pieces of cortex are surgically removed the memory persists but is less clear. This is the same as is noticed in laser holography of images. (if pieces are removed the image remains intact but gets less clear)

I also agree that interference plays a huge part both in recall and in creating the memory trace that is fixed and would be happy to discuss that method or maybe I could find some threads here where I already discussed it.  http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4646053#4646053
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3908731#3908731


however what we are talking about is an intereference pattern that is produced from simultaneous pulse trains at sensory points of excitation.
which connect the experience of things happening together. and when a similar interference pattern occurs - the associated memory surfaces.


this works because it is anchored to the primary sensory inputs to the cortex, it does not expand in clarity if it is enlarged. remembered experiences are not larger than the original, although memory certainly is.

I would caution you not to use magical thinking as if it were truth, although any linkage deserves some consideration,  that is just basic ideation. still it does not mean it is a clever idea just because it has a similar shape to another one.

(btw Dr. Peter T. Chopping is too complicated and not at all clear though he does include some of the essentials (not including quantum physics - blechh), and the other link did not work for me)


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Has the universe been shown to be a fractal? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #16381542 - 06/14/12 03:25 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry about my comment, really. I get worked up when I see what this could be for all of us and what we appear to be living in going by what we say to eachother.

It's a fractal (reality).

I know.

How?

My childhood was the most painful, disgusting environment I could have hoped for.

I released the emotion, now I no longer remember anything that happened as a result of it... stupid comments, stupid friendship circles, stupid decisions.

The childhood never happened, so none of its consequences occurred.

Now I live in a world where I have never been before.

People I wasn't supposed to meet don't even recognise me, and I don't recognise them, except in a strange, curious way.

I look different.

Feel different.

Everything is different.

I have gone back in time and reversed the actions... how? Because it's all the same moment, like a fractal is all the same pattern. I was already there, in childhood, I never left the corner of the kitchen after the assault. Occasionally the child would settle down and I'd find myself staring at corners in rooms. That's how I remembered in the end, that was the clue.

IF YOU CHANGE WHAT YOU ARE NOW YOU WILL CHANGE WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN, IF YOU CHANGE WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN YOU WILL CHANGE WHAT YOU ARE NOW, TIMES INFINITY = FRACTAL.


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My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Has the universe been shown to be a fractal? [Re: circastes]
    #16383478 - 06/14/12 11:28 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

part of you is always in the kitchen screaming silently -
if you hear the scream,
time will come rushing through &
you will be out of the kitchen.

Not the fractal universe
it is the silent scream universe until the scream is heard and the child is held gently - and cared about.

rewind, peace, unwind, peace


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Has the universe been shown to be a fractal? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #16383987 - 06/15/12 03:15 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

That's beautiful. Thank you. I will meditate on these words.


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My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Has the universe been shown to be a fractal? [Re: circastes]
    #16383993 - 06/15/12 03:19 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I just pictured myself on the floor in the kitchen that I have now, and the twisted child began to show itself in my emotions. I'm afraid to show him the light.

He/I used to freak out in the darkness after that. Anxiety attacks, hyperventilation (which Grof says is an attempt at self-healing).

I was laying in bed once and peered into the darkness and saw my childhood fear of it.

It's all so beautiful but letting out this episode and its pain has been so much on the system.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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OfflineGoreTuzk
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Re: Has the universe been shown to be a fractal? [Re: circastes]
    #16384509 - 06/15/12 09:23 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:I utterly agree that experience (not information) is stored in the brain holographically in the sense that a memory's engram pervades the range of the whole cerebral cortex and, if pieces of cortex are surgically removed the memory persists but is less clear.



Interesting. I would never say experience can be stored, I think it's so flimsy and elusive (imo because it's so fundamental) that it can only be experienced. To my mind, it makes more sense to say information is stored holographically, not experience.

Quote:

redgreenvines said:however what we are talking about is an intereference pattern that is produced from simultaneous pulse trains at sensory points of excitation.
which connect the experience of things happening together. and when a similar interference pattern occurs - the associated memory surfaces.


this works because it is anchored to the primary sensory inputs to the cortex, it does not expand in clarity if it is enlarged. remembered experiences are not larger than the original, although memory certainly is.




All smaller things are anchored to the bigger ones, since everything is connected. What I'm suggesting is that there are, well, not constants, but habits of nature that have been naturally selected due to their efficiency in conserving energy, and, in the same way that the brain very easily navigates its huge amounts of stored information through the criteria of similarity, so is the universe - which I consider to be (not a, but) the living organism - sensitive to this resonance, governed, as it were, by the similarity-novelty spectrum, and therefore unnafected by distance in space and time. Assuming this kind of accumulative memory exists in nature, coupled with the fact that we live in a relativistic universe, it's only natural to conclude that as long as proportionality is conserved, so would the resonance be conserved since there is no absolute meter stick to compare things to, which indicates to me that the universe has to be a fractal in order to be as efficient as it is since it would take indefinite amounts of unnecessary coding to have different principles for every scale of reality.

This is my train of thought, I'm sorry I can't answer your point specifically. And if you're unfamiliar with Rupert Sheldrake's morphic resonance theory, here's a link.

Quote:

redgreenvines said:(btw Dr. Peter T. Chopping is too complicated and not at all clear though he does include some of the essentials (not including quantum physics - blechh), and the other link did not work for me)



I forgot to put the "http://" behind the link, it should work now.



Edited by GoreTuzk (06/15/12 09:42 AM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Has the universe been shown to be a fractal? [Re: GoreTuzk]
    #16386469 - 06/15/12 05:09 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

what information do you think we can store besides what is experienced.
we also experience some verbalization and verbal thought summaries - and we keep some of these labeling experiences as memories as well.

information does not store very well except as experience.

as for morphic resonance it is very real in the case of associative recall of holographic memory - but it is mostly a fantasy when not talking about how the brain works.

the brain has a structure that supports holographic similarity resonating as recall from memory, Nature on the whole does not have that structure.


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