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Invisibletekramrepus
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Spiritual Debate: Which is more necessary for humanity....
    #1638508 - 06/16/03 11:21 PM (14 years, 16 days ago)

Intelligence verus Peace

Personally, I believe both are needed to create an ideal society. However, from what any somewhat functional human being can tell, our world lacks much of both.

There are MANY forms of intelligence, including analyzing data, memory recollection, capability for accurate scientific experimentation, learning from the past and from mistakes maken, etc etc etc.

There are MANY forms of peace, including tolerance, love, passiveness, nonresistance, acceptence, compassion, etc etc etc


My question is, which one is needed MORE. Which one do we HAVE TO HAVE so much that we could sacrifice the other?


I believe its peace.


The reason I ask this, is after reading a few of Swami's posts. I noticed much intellectual debate and willingness to prove someone wrong, but all the wrong intentions. Then I read someone like Shroomism's posts, and regardless what the content is, you can almost always see that he wants peace to prevail through his threads. That he has good intentions.

If I was to want one to have control over anything, it would be Shroomism, because of his peaceful nature. This is not to say he lacks intellect, NOR that Swami lacks peace - I am just using them as examples, since this is what triggered the ideal for this thread.




Well, what do you guys think? Peace or Intelligence? Which is more important


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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: Spiritual Debate: Which is more necessary for humanity.... [Re: tekramrepus]
    #1638517 - 06/16/03 11:23 PM (14 years, 16 days ago)

Oh, and the obvious answer is that we need both. Of course. I know this.

If we were completely intellectual without any peace, we would turn into what some call the "greys". Wether they are real or fictious doesnt matter, but its known that they lack emotions.

That would lack life itself.


However, if we were 100% peaceful but lacked any intelligence, we would get nowhere. We would no longer progress, humanity would weaken, and probably die out.


Either way, humanity would die. We need both to exist.


I want to know WHICH IS MORE IMPORTANT to you guys


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Spiritual Debate: Which is more necessary for humanity.... [Re: tekramrepus]
    #1638529 - 06/16/03 11:27 PM (14 years, 16 days ago)

Who's in charge of the mushroom switch?
I bet you get another for this


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Spiritual Debate: Which is more necessary for humanity.... [Re: tekramrepus]
    #1638550 - 06/16/03 11:35 PM (14 years, 16 days ago)

"If we were completely intellectual without any peace, we would turn into what some call the "greys". Wether they are real or fictious doesnt matter, but its known that they lack emotions."-

I entertain the idea that the 'Beast' chained for a thousand years, is refering to the ego being stripped away as a means of attaining harmony...But I agree that it would result in a lackluster emotional lifestyle akin to slaves who's will have been broke.

I think peace is possible to those who place intelligence above emotional instinct...and yet there will always be those who cannot control themselves when enraged....


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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: Spiritual Debate: Which is more necessary for humanity.... [Re: castaway]
    #1638565 - 06/16/03 11:40 PM (14 years, 16 days ago)

And just so its known, this thread DOES serve a purpose :smile: We'll get to that after some discussion !


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
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Re: Spiritual Debate: Which is more necessary for humanity.... [Re: tekramrepus]
    #1638604 - 06/16/03 11:56 PM (14 years, 16 days ago)

Peace sounds good and stuff, but I'd fear to think what would happen if the world was run by a bunch of unintelligent, pot-smoking hippies.  I think intelligence is more important.  Besides, if the world was ruled by intelligent people, I think they would realize that peace is a perogative for humanity.  At least I'd like to think they would!

Peace, :wink:

RebelSteve


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Spiritual Debate: Which is more necessary for humanity.... [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1638652 - 06/17/03 12:21 AM (14 years, 16 days ago)

If you're talking which we'd rather have if the other would have to be sacrificed, I'd say I'd have to go with intelligence. Without it we would not have the means with which to appreciate our existence, harmonious as it would be. You also should realize that we have a huge capacity to appreciate chaos and unrest, and a world overcome by the lack of peace would give us all the mind stimulating, thought provoking life experience we need. We'd be soldiers in a great and terrible world, every man working to fulfill his own selfish goals, at anyone else's expense. There'd be pain, but great strength and developed minds, and mankind would undoubtedly appreciate his own unequaled ability to think and and understand. (Like the city of the drow elves, if you ever read the forgotten realms books by R.A. Salvatore) My big point, and the main reason I'd choose this, is that I feel life would still retain a purpose in a non-peaceful world of intelligent human life. I cannot say the same for a paradise of idiots- living, breathing, eating, chilling, boring. No intellectual conversation. no technology, no nothing of any value. We appreciate peace because we know what it means to not be at peace. In idiot paradise, everyone would take everything for granted and nothing would make a shit bit of difference to anyone.

Soo, yeah that's how I feel.


Edited by RedNukleus (06/17/03 12:24 AM)


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InvisibleMyInsanityTrip
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Re: Spiritual Debate: Which is more necessary for humanity.... [Re: tekramrepus]
    #1638768 - 06/17/03 03:27 AM (14 years, 16 days ago)

Personally I feel people need to be more accepting of others.

Humans are a judgemental creature that enjoys holding their fellow man down it seems.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Spiritual Debate: Which is more necessary for humanity.... [Re: tekramrepus]
    #1638800 - 06/17/03 03:45 AM (14 years, 16 days ago)

it depends on the purpose of the debate. if you're seeking truth, intelligence is more important. for mental masturbation, peace.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Spiritual Debate: Which is more necessary for humanity.... [Re: tekramrepus]
    #1638809 - 06/17/03 03:51 AM (14 years, 16 days ago)

Well, what do you guys think? Peace or Intelligence? Which is more important...
Pardon, but I think your question is flawed. Which is more important, your brain or your heart? Is this truly a valid question?

I noticed much intellectual debate and willingness to prove someone wrong...
I frequently rebut what I consider erroneous ideas, but not the person. There is a huge difference that so frequently gets overlooked. Note here I am pointing out what I consider a major flaw in thinking (correlating the idea with the person - they are separate!), not a major flaw in supermarket. CAN YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

all the wrong intentions.
And these evil intentions are...? Should I encourage shoddy logic, erroneous data and fantasy in order to win a popularity contest? ALL WARS are the result of faulty thinking - PERIOD!

I read someone like Shroomism's posts, and regardless what the content is, you can almost always see that he wants peace to prevail through his threads. That he has good intentions.
1 + 1 not equal to 3 no matter the intention. To me, falsehoods are inherently evil. (This is not a comment on shroomism, so don't start!)




--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinemanna_man
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Re: Spiritual Debate: Which is more necessary for humanity.. [Re: Swami]
    #1638840 - 06/17/03 04:13 AM (14 years, 16 days ago)

" if the world was ruled by intelligent people, I think they would realize that peace is a perogative for humanity."

very true. I also believe that with intelligence comes peace.
And we all learned from Bush that unintelligent ppl in positions of power can truly fuck things up. :shocked:


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This post is protected under copyrite law.All above content is strictly the property of ?manna_man.Any infringement of copyright property is strictly prohibited.Any violators will be stretched, shot, and then vaporized into a state of anti-matter, where they will cease to exist.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Spiritual Debate: Which is more necessary for humanity.... [Re: tekramrepus]
    #1638942 - 06/17/03 05:49 AM (14 years, 16 days ago)

I think the big problem facing humanity is greed and to solve this problem I think you need a combination of peace and intelligence. Sorry but I think trying to separate and rate these things may well be a case of MM as Swami would say!

PEACE

ummm... and INTELLIGENCE!! :grin: 


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: Spiritual Debate: Which is more necessary for humanity.... [Re: GazzBut]
    #1639150 - 06/17/03 09:49 AM (14 years, 15 days ago)

The question is not faulty because the motive serves a purpose.


I disagree about if a culture is intellectual it would have to be peaceful. Intelligence does not bring about peace, even if they KNOW its good for them, intelligence isnt going to stop wars. Knowledge might, but intelligence itself wont.



Swami - I agree. Nothing should go unchallenged. The problem however, is that the spiritual existence of things cannot be measured, proven, or supported with facts. That creates a problem when you or scientifically approaching people try to find validity in someone's spiritual beliefs, opinions, answers, etc etc.


I am not doubting you - you've proven yourself to me on these boards, and I recognize this isn't a pissing contest - just as you said, you arent saying SUPERMARKET is faulty or questioning him, just the thinking?? Well its the same for you or anyone else with me. I am trying to get you to be more aware of your approach to the spiritual existence of things.


Do you agree that much of spirituality cannot be proven, measured, or supported with facts?





Anyway that was not off topic, I am going to make a point later on , just wanna seee what more people think


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OfflineKenny Bus
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Re: Spiritual Debate: Which is more necessary for humanity.... [Re: tekramrepus]
    #1639214 - 06/17/03 10:23 AM (14 years, 15 days ago)

people are a form of intelligence. if you want me to choose between being a race that progresses and creates or one that merely survives, but peacefully i would go with the latter.


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KB


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Spiritual Debate: Which is more necessary for humanity.... [Re: tekramrepus]
    #1639269 - 06/17/03 11:04 AM (14 years, 15 days ago)

Do you agree that much of spirituality cannot be proven, measured, or supported with facts?

Your question is too vague to give a precise answer to.

Most often, my barging in (though not always :smile:) comes at a point where someone states something unsupported as factual such as "We are direct descendants of beings from Sirius," or "We only use 10% of our brains," or "I can regularly perform telepathy."

Now if someone states, "I believe that we take on human form because..." there is nothing to fault in that declaration as it is an opinion that cannot be further broken down, except as to how they arrived at such a belief. 


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Spiritual Debate: Which is more necessary for humanity.... [Re: tekramrepus]
    #1639270 - 06/17/03 11:06 AM (14 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

I disagree about if a culture is intellectual it would have to be peaceful. Intelligence does not bring about peace, even if they KNOW its good for them, intelligence isnt going to stop wars. Knowledge might, but intelligence itself wont.





I disagree, I think it is fairly obvious that wars are not "intelligent".

Do you think your concepts of peace and spirituality have been arrived at without any influence from your intelligence?? Of course not! The two go hand in hand. The increasing intelligence of humanity is responsible for the increasing spirituality of the human race.


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Always Smi2le


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Spiritual Debate: Which is more necessary for humanity.. [Re: tekramrepus]
    #1639617 - 06/17/03 02:33 PM (14 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Intelligence does not bring about peace, even if they KNOW its good for them, intelligence isnt going to stop wars. Knowledge might, but intelligence itself wont.




I agree. One could try to imagine what would happen if for example the intelligence of cats was raised to a level approaching humans. Would such cats be more peaceful than normal cats, or would they use their intelligence to invent more powerful weapons? I suspect they would become more deadly cats unless their wisdom is increased also...

Quote:

the spiritual existence of things cannot be measured, proven, or supported with facts




Why not? If spirit simply means "animating force" then it should just be a matter of identifying what this "force" is for any particular thing. In some cases this identification may be observer-dependent, ambivalent, or different at different levels of description of the thing, but not necessarily impossible.

However, we have a serious problem even communicating about spiritual things in a sane, scientific way, so we need to work on that.


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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: Spiritual Debate: Which is more necessary for humanity.. [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1639755 - 06/17/03 03:28 PM (14 years, 15 days ago)

I dont think its not POSSIBLE for things of a spiritual nature to be measured, I just think we havent been able to achieve it at this point in time yet (obviously).

From what I understand, the two are different approaches to the same questions.

While science strives to measure, prove, validate and explore based on FACTS AND RESEARCH....spiritaulity tends to be based on experience.  We have not yet come to fully understand the human brain or mind, nor reached it's potential. We cannot yet measure spirituality, therefore its best left in an unscientific standpoint for now. Thats just my opinion :smile:




The purpose of this thread was that without both Intelligence and Peace, humanity is nothing. One without the other - just wont work. Right now, humanity has both - but both to a very SMALL SMALL SMALL degree. This is why we are just barely getting by, and I do mean BARELY.

That may seem obvious, but what is no so obvious is that I do believe we need a balance. If we are to grow, we need not only to focus on increasing our knowledge and intelligence as a species, we need to learn to increase our tolerance and peace.

It seems many world leaders neglect that.


Same goes for any successful message board. To continually grow and not get 


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OfflineViBrAnT
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Re: Spiritual Debate: Which is more necessary for humanity.. [Re: tekramrepus]
    #1639995 - 06/17/03 05:22 PM (14 years, 15 days ago)

The ancients probably saw death as a much more natural transistion than we humans do today for the most part. I think this is where the peace aspect comes in, we each need our own inner religion, if it bears fruit we should become naurally peaceful. As for intelligence, thats an extremely broad subject, we as a society would have to agree on some general prime directive, given where we say we wish to go. The intelligence of this society is so widely scattered, so misused, so individual rather than collective that we are destroying our planet because of it. I am not sure i will ever fully understand the ignorance of most humans today.I mean do some people hate themselves so much that they subject themselves constantly to imput from unreliable damaging sources to just pass the time, this is very sad, makes me want to cry, but only when i think about it.


--------------------
" liken this life illusory, for your sand castle will one day be adrift amongst the wind "




Edited by ViBrAnT (06/17/03 05:24 PM)


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