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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Pressure Cooker, Vermiculite

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Offlinefactory81
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Will boiling jar's in normal pan using pf tek work?
    #1636275 - 06/16/03 01:47 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Tommorow im going to do my first brf cakes ever. Im going to start with 4 of them i suppose. Just cuz i dont want to use all my syringes and etc. Im going to try and boil the correct amounts of brf and verm in my jars for a hour at a simmering / boiling temprature, then letting them cool @ room temp for 2 hours and then poke holes and inject a half a cc in 2 spots. Im just makin sure this will work, im gettin lysol and going to town with cleanin my kitchen up tommorow. Im really dissappointed i cant find a pressure cooker local but i need to get harvests going...
thanks so much in advance

Also should i put a layer of dry verm on the bottom so its double end verm? I heard this increases yield...


Edited by factory81 (06/16/03 01:57 AM)


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Offlinekukusz
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Re: Will boiling jar's in normal pan using pf tek work? [Re: factory81]
    #1636290 - 06/16/03 01:57 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

First of all, when you boil them it should be in a pot that is covered, you want the steam that you are creating during boiling to be flying around in there doing your sterilization - it is this steam NOT the temperature that sterilizes. Secondly, I don't think 2 hours of cooling is enough, but that is IMHO.


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OfflineGoodOlBattonAss
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Re: Will boiling jar's in normal pan using pf tek work? [Re: kukusz]
    #1636317 - 06/16/03 02:13 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

A pan won't work...the idea is to get the temp. as high as possible, and without a pressure cooker thats going to be 212 degrees. Use a pot with a lid.

Two hours of cooling isn't enough.

It is the temp. that sterilizes them. People use pressure cokers because higher pressure = higher boiling temps.

Go to a flea market for a pressure cooker, I picked up my 10 qt. for $30.

If you want to increase yeilds case them.


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Offlinekukusz
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Re: Will boiling jar's in normal pan using pf tek work? [Re: GoodOlBattonAss]
    #1636347 - 06/16/03 02:29 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

goodolbatton - it is not direct temperature that causes sterilization, that is why putting your jars in a 500 degree oven doesn't do shit. But putting them in a pot of water boiling at 212 degrees does. So how can you say that it is the temperature that does the sterilization? The PC does allow for higher temperature (from PV=nRT) but it is still the fact that the steam is so hot that does it, not the air temperature.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Will boiling jar's in normal pan using pf tek work? [Re: kukusz]
    #1636387 - 06/16/03 02:49 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

>The PC does allow for higher temperature (from PV=nRT) but it is still the fact
>that the steam is so hot that does it, not the air temperature.

Of course it?s the temperature.
Liquid water can?t get hotter than 100?C at atmospheric pressure, regardless of temperature you apply.
As long there is liquid water in your substrate(and hopefully there is) the temperature can only reach the boiling temperature.
At a pressure of 15 PSI (pound per square inch) water boils at a higher temperature (250?F, 121?C) than at ambient pressure.(212?F, 100?C). This high temperature kills the contaminants if applied for a sufficient long time span.

>from PV=nRT
You are quoting the wrong law.
The equation that comes in question here is the Clausius Clapeyron Equation .


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Will boiling jar's in normal pan using pf tek work? [Re: factory81]
    #1636399 - 06/16/03 02:56 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

factory8:
Boil your jars in a covered pot for 90 minutes. The boiling doesn?t have to be vigorous.Use a rack and don?t let the water completely evaporate, don?t use more than an inch of water at the beginning though, or it might get into your jars. Pour some hot water in during the boiling, if the level gets low.
You can also stack the jars in the pot if you want, just remember to always have a lid on the pot.


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Offlinekukusz
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Re: Will boiling jar's in normal pan using pf tek work? [Re: Anno]
    #1636403 - 06/16/03 02:58 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

It's the temperature of the steam, though. So are you saying that baking the jars at 500 degrees would sterilize? Steam sterilization works well because the water acts as a better medium for heat transfer than does air. I know that it is the heat that is that kills your contams, but it is due to the steam that it works so well. Am I completely looking at this wrong?


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Will boiling jar's in normal pan using pf tek work? [Re: kukusz]
    #1636423 - 06/16/03 03:07 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

>It's the temperature of the steam, though.
Which is the same as that of the liquid water the steam comes from.

>So are you saying that baking the jars at 500 degrees would sterilize?
Same as baking them at 212?C, except you will dry out the jars in no time.
Read http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/23369 .

> Steam sterilization works well because the water acts as a better medium for heat transfer than does air.
When the steam condenses, it gives off the energy of evaporation.?It?s a very good heating medium, still the temperature stays at the boiling point of water, if there is water present.

> I know that it is the heat that is that kills your contams, but it is due to the steam
>that it works so well. Am I completely looking at this wrong?
No, you are are right basically.
Read http://acad.erskine.edu/facultyweb/baker/BG201_handouts/Backup%20of%20Sterilization.doc .


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Offlinekukusz
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Re: Will boiling jar's in normal pan using pf tek work? [Re: Anno]
    #1636531 - 06/16/03 04:01 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

cool, thanks for the wisdom as usual anno :smile:


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Offlinefactory81
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Re: Will boiling jar's in normal pan using pf tek work? [Re: kukusz]
    #1637428 - 06/16/03 03:06 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Im going to boil them tommorow morning for 90 minutes at a boilin temprature, 1 inch of boiling not vigoriouslly water.Then Im going to let them sit out all afternoon and hopefully be able to iconolate them 5-6 hours after cool down. Then keep them at a good temprature.


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OfflinemotamanM
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Re: Will boiling jar's in normal pan using pf tek work? [Re: factory81]
    #1637435 - 06/16/03 03:11 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

then letting them cool @ room temp for 2 hours and then poke holes and inject a half a cc in 2 spots




Are you using just foil for lids? or regular jar lids?


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Offlinefactory81
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Re: Will boiling jar's in normal pan using pf tek work? [Re: motaman]
    #1638454 - 06/16/03 11:04 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Ball Jar lids that came with them......

picked up lysol today, going to clean the area im workin in very well
using a makeshift rack in the pan im using
the jars have to be in the water correct but not at a high level.


Edited by factory81 (06/16/03 11:06 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Will boiling jar's in normal pan using pf tek work? [Re: factory81]
    #1638684 - 06/17/03 12:51 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Jars do NOT have to sit in the water you are using the steam.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Will boiling jar's in normal pan using pf tek work? [Re: ]
    #1639099 - 06/17/03 09:08 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Jars do NOT have to sit in the water




Just make sure they are not in direct contact with the cooking pot's bottom, as this might (will) damage the jars.


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OfflinemotamanM
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Re: Will boiling jar's in normal pan using pf tek work? [Re: factory81]
    #1639154 - 06/17/03 09:51 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

then letting them cool @ room temp for 2 hours and then poke holes and inject a half a cc in 2 spots
 




You may want to poke the holes prior to steaming them.  :cool: 


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Offlinefactory81
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Re: Will boiling jar's in normal pan using pf tek work? [Re: motaman]
    #1639363 - 06/17/03 11:58 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Motaman, you rule, im so newb if you wouldnt of told me that I wouldnt of.

Koraks, you rule, i was gonna sit my glass 1/2 pint jars direct contact with the pan floor, im going to try and rig up something....

Wish me luck, im off to take a shower, clean the kitchen, and get to work guys. Thanks for all of you tips. Lets hope this isn't as hard as it is. I think I should say some big speech or something but awe fuck it.


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Pressure Cooker, Vermiculite

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