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OfflineMemories
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Registered: 05/09/12
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Euthanasia
    #16361277 - 06/10/12 02:00 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

Let's say someone has brain damage that causes them to suffer immense pain and lack the ability to show consent for their own mercy killing. There is a chance that they will get better sometime in the future, but you don't know what that chance is. Do you pull the plug? Is it moral to pull the plug?

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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Euthanasia [Re: Memories]
    #16361288 - 06/10/12 02:02 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

It depends if I'm in their will or not.

Morals? What are those?


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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OfflineMemories
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Re: Euthanasia [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #16361310 - 06/10/12 02:06 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

Stop eating my bait! :mad2:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Euthanasia [Re: Memories]
    #16361394 - 06/10/12 02:26 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Memories said:
Let's say someone has brain damage that causes them to suffer immense pain and lack the ability to show consent for their own mercy killing. There is a chance that they will get better sometime in the future, but you don't know what that chance is. Do you pull the plug? Is it moral to pull the plug?





I pullem plug.  :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Euthanasia [Re: Memories]
    #16361407 - 06/10/12 02:28 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

I'd actually have to be facing this situation to be motivated to think long enough and deeply enough to answer the question.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Euthanasia [Re: Freedom]
    #16361442 - 06/10/12 02:34 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

But you wanted to post anyway.:braindamage:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Euthanasia [Re: Icelander]
    #16361455 - 06/10/12 02:37 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

Yes because my answer is still relevant to the question :shrug:

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Euthanasia [Re: Memories]
    #16361568 - 06/10/12 02:57 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Memories said:
Let's say someone has brain damage that causes them to suffer immense pain and lack the ability to show consent for their own mercy killing. There is a chance that they will get better sometime in the future, but you don't know what that chance is. Do you pull the plug? Is it moral to pull the plug?




No, you do not pull the plug because you don't have a living will.  Better to let the State Of Florida and Jeb Bush tell you why you are wrong and leave that vegetable alone!


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

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OfflineRaptoralic
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Re: Euthanasia [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #16363926 - 06/10/12 11:31 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

If there is a plug...pull it. We are causing the suffering with the plug.

When creatures are sick they die.


--------------------
Donnie: Why do you wear that stupid bunny suit?
Frank: Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?

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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Euthanasia [Re: Raptoralic]
    #16363963 - 06/10/12 11:40 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

I wonder if you would be saying that if you were deathly ill.  Do you never use medicine?

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OfflineRaptoralic
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Re: Euthanasia [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #16364070 - 06/11/12 12:16 AM (12 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Sleepwalker said:

I wonder if you would be saying that if you were deathly ill.  Do you never use medicine?




I wonder also. In op's situation certainly not. But I couldn't decide there.

Medicine mainly treats the symptoms not the illness. The body treats the illness. Medicine just fucks up your system and can kill you (more than 100 000 deaths/year in US from the regular/expected side effects) The answer is no, I never use it because I don't get sick (I have an extremely healthy lifestyle/diet..for me seems normal though :smile:) ). Generally, a long water fast is way more useful then a medical approach to disease. When you're not eating the body thinks you're somewhere injured/ill and can not access food, so all its energy will be spent on localizing any failure and to solve it so you will get back as soon as possible on your feet. I might use medicine if I get parasites/malaria..not sure though.


--------------------
Donnie: Why do you wear that stupid bunny suit?
Frank: Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?

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OfflineMemories
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Re: Euthanasia [Re: Raptoralic]
    #16364696 - 06/11/12 06:32 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Right, starving your body of nutrients is way more effective than anti-biotics when treating infection. :braindamage:

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Euthanasia [Re: Memories]
    #16364745 - 06/11/12 07:09 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Memories said:
Right, starving your body of nutrients is way more effective than anti-biotics when treating infection. :braindamage:




No, just use the antibiotics designed for BACTERIA to fight what might be FUNGAL or OTHER organisms it can't touch.  This will make your likely undiagnosed viral (i.e. common cold) or fungal infection not go away any faster.  You however will feel better having done SOMETHING.  Of course, in the end the super strains of staph and strep will kill us all cause of greedy clowns like your doc that prescribe unnecessary antibiotics that create such bugs.  The whiny "do something for my kid" with a cold are also at fault.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

Edited by LunarEclipse (06/11/12 07:13 AM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Euthanasia [Re: Raptoralic]
    #16364815 - 06/11/12 08:02 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Actually I believe it's over 300,000 deaths a year.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Euthanasia [Re: Memories]
    #16364825 - 06/11/12 08:05 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Memories said:
Right, starving your body of nutrients is way more effective than anti-biotics when treating infection.





Sometimes that's true.  The body often can heal itself with controlled fasting depending on the problem.  Don't be to eager to prostrate yourself at the feet of the medical high priests. :pope:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMemories
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Re: Euthanasia [Re: Icelander]
    #16365085 - 06/11/12 09:37 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Show me one study supporting the notion that fasting heals the body.

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OfflineRaptoralic
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Re: Euthanasia [Re: Memories]
    #16365593 - 06/11/12 12:16 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Memories said:
Show me one study supporting the notion that fasting heals the body.




There is a tone of information and studies on http://www.fasting.com/solution.html

There are many people in the medical world advocating water fasting, while others, juice fasting, an alternative to the first one, the digestive system stops, but you get nutrients as a bonus. Indeed after 2-3 days, the main consumer of energy, the digestive system, stops and you don't feel hungry anymore.

I extracted a few quotes:

"Everyone has a doctor in him or her; we just have to help it in its work. The natural healing force within each one of us is the greatest force in getting well. Our food should be our medicine. Our medicine should be our food. But to eat when you are sick, is to feed your sickness."--Hippocrates, M.D., 460-377 B.C., Father of Western Medicine

"Fasting is the greatest remedy--the physician within!"--Philippus Paracelsus, another father of Western medicine

"Whether the patient has a cardiac condition, hypertension, autoimmune disease, fibroids, or asthma, he or she must be informed that fasting and natural, plant-based diets are a viable alternative to conventional therapy, and an effective one."--Joel Fuhrman, M.D., author of Fasting And Eating For Health: A Medical Doctor's Program for Conquering Disease

blank gifIn "Radical Healing: Integrating The World's Great Therapeutic Traditions To Create A New Transformative Medicine," hailed as "a masterpiece" by Caroline Myss, Ph.D., and "an instant classic" by Deepak Chopra, M.D., Rudolph Ballentine, M.D., who established holistic medical clinics in Chicago, New York, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Minneapolis and Honesdale, PA, and has acted as a consultant and advisor to many other centers, concludes, pp. 311-314: "Perhaps the most universal of the all-out cleansing techniques is fasting. Its efficacy is probably based on fundamental body rhythms. You are designed to alternate nourishing and cleansing. Like inhalation and exhalation, they work in tandem. When you are taking in and processing nutrients, you are not geared to pulling out and discarding wastes. . . .But, when the input of nutrition is stopped for awhile, then a flurry of cleansing starts up. The rugs are lifted and the dirty dishes are brought out of the cabinet where they were stashed. Cleaning begins in earnest."

"Juice Fasting is, without any doubt, the most effective biological method of treatment. . .it is the 'operation without surgery'. . .it is a cure involving exudation, reattunement, redirection, loosening up and purified relaxation. While fasting, the patient improves her or his physical health and gains much, but he or she will have neglected the most important thing if the hunger for spiritual nourishment that manifests itself during fasting is not satisfied."--Otto Buchinger, Sr., M.D., 1876-1966, Germany's great, self-described "fasting therapist" who founded several renowned Buchinger Kliniks in which he conducted "more than 100,000 juice fasting cures." His grandson, Andreas Buchinger, M.D., my friend and colleague since 1998, currently directs Europe's premier fasting clinic--the Buchinger Clinic in Bad Pyrmont, Germany. (Those requiring a residential facility may contact FCI for information regarding this preminent juice fasting clinic.)


--------------------
Donnie: Why do you wear that stupid bunny suit?
Frank: Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?

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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Euthanasia [Re: Memories]
    #16365666 - 06/11/12 12:35 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Memories said:
Let's say someone has brain damage that causes them to suffer immense pain and lack the ability to show consent for their own mercy killing. There is a chance that they will get better sometime in the future, but you don't know what that chance is. Do you pull the plug? Is it moral to pull the plug?



Pull the plug no doubt.


--------------------

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OfflineMemories
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Re: Euthanasia [Re: Raptoralic]
    #16365978 - 06/11/12 02:10 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

You linked me fasting.com. I am sure there is no bias present. And a fucking Hippocrates quote? :lol: You are just affirming my suspicions.

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Offlinesanchothestoner
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Re: Euthanasia [Re: Memories]
    #16366134 - 06/11/12 02:54 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Well... you did ask for information :shrug:


--------------------
I fucking hate you... God damn, I love you...
But we both know if we stick together, we'll just tear ourselves apart
You are my sunshine, my only sunshine, you make me happy, when skies are grey
You are my heroin, but there's an abscess... God damn, I miss the vein!

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