Home | Community | Message Board

High Mountain Compost
Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   North Spore Injection Grain Bag   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]
Invisibleswimmingfast


Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 1,013
Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans?
    #16357032 - 06/10/12 01:32 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Is human vegetarianism natural?

I have recently read an article that claims humans were, and always have been, herbivores. Supposedly, our biological make-up has never adapted to eating meat and the fact that this article claims is that we are still, up to this day, naturally and biologically herbivores. What are your thoughts?


Here is that article:

Going through the comments of some of my recent posts, I noticed the frequently stated notion that eating meat was an essential step in human evolution. While this notion may comfort the meat industry, it's simply not true, scientifically.

Dr. T. Colin Campbell, professor emeritus at Cornell University and author of The China Study, explains that in fact, we only recently (historically speaking) began eating meat, and that the inclusion of meat in our diet came well after we became who we are today. He explains that "the birth of agriculture only started about 10,000 years ago at a time when it became considerably more convenient to herd animals. This is not nearly as long as the time [that] fashioned our basic biochemical functionality (at least tens of millions of years) and which functionality depends on the nutrient composition of plant-based foods."

That jibes with what Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine President Dr. Neal Barnard says in his book, The Power of Your Plate, in which he explains that "early humans had diets very much like other great apes, which is to say a largely plant-based diet, drawing on foods we can pick with our hands. Research suggests that meat-eating probably began by scavenging--eating the leftovers that carnivores had left behind. However, our bodies have never adapted to it. To this day, meat-eaters have a higher incidence of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and other problems."

There is no more authoritative source on anthropological issues than paleontologist Dr. Richard Leakey, who explains what anyone who has taken an introductory physiology course might have discerned intuitively--that humans are herbivores. Leakey notes that "[y]ou can't tear flesh by hand, you can't tear hide by hand.... We wouldn't have been able to deal with food source that required those large canines" (although we have teeth that are called "canines," they bear little resemblance to the canines of carnivores).

In fact, our hands are perfect for grabbing and picking fruits and vegetables. Similarly, like the intestines of other herbivores, ours are very long (carnivores have short intestines so they can quickly get rid of all that rotting flesh they eat). We don't have sharp claws to seize and hold down prey. And most of us (hopefully) lack the instinct that would drive us to chase and then kill animals and devour their raw carcasses. Dr. Milton Mills builds on these points and offers dozens more in his essay, "A Comparative Anatomy of Eating."

The point is this: Thousands of years ago when we were hunter-gatherers, we may have needed a bit of meat in our diets in times of scarcity, but we don't need it now. Says Dr. William C. Roberts, editor of the American Journal of Cardiology, "Although we think we are, and we act as if we are, human beings are not natural carnivores. When we kill animals to eat them, they end up killing us, because their flesh, which contains cholesterol and saturated fat, was never intended for human beings, who are natural herbivores."

Sure, most of us are "behavioral omnivores"--that is, we eat meat, so that defines us as omnivorous. But our evolution and physiology are herbivorous, and ample science proves that when we choose to eat meat, that causes problems, from decreased energy and a need for more sleep up to increased risk for obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer.

Old habits die hard, and it's convenient for people who like to eat meat to think that there is evidence to support their belief that eating meat is "natural" or the cause of our evolution. For many years, I too, clung to the idea that meat and dairy were good for me; I realize now that I was probably comforted to have justification for my continued attachment to the traditions I grew up with.

But in fact top nutritional and anthropological scientists from the most reputable institutions imaginable say categorically that humans are natural herbivores, and that we will be healthier today if we stick with our herbivorous roots. It may be inconvenient, but it alas, it is the truth.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/shattering-the-meat-myth_b_214390.html


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesharkeye
Male

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 232
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast]
    #16357048 - 06/10/12 01:36 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Then why do we have canine teeth?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinevinnymontana21
new wool socks
Male User Gallery
Registered: 01/23/11
Posts: 314
Loc: the gaza strip, metro
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast]
    #16357059 - 06/10/12 01:40 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

apes eat the bugs off each other for grooming and what not. i bet they always have. and i think we developed from some kind of prehistoric primate. it all depends on the meat you eat. commercial food is next to toxic. also early humans were nomads and hunter gatherers, they followed bison/cattle heards. some were so nomadic they made it to the americas. I also saw in a documentary called neanderthals and it talks about how neanderthals ate almost 80 percent meat. i know neanderthals were a completely different race, but the cro magnons must of lived on a good amount of meat also.


--------------------
some things have to be believed to be seen.

catch our vapors


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFreedom
Will swim for food
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,299
Last seen: 19 days, 3 hours
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast] * 1
    #16357073 - 06/10/12 01:46 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

It is natural for humans to survive by any means necessary.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinevinnymontana21
new wool socks
Male User Gallery
Registered: 01/23/11
Posts: 314
Loc: the gaza strip, metro
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Freedom]
    #16357087 - 06/10/12 01:50 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

i will be mean as fuck if it is necessary for survival.


--------------------
some things have to be believed to be seen.

catch our vapors


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesharkeye
Male

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 232
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: vinnymontana21]
    #16357111 - 06/10/12 01:55 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Ima bout to grill chicken now....fuck their study!:thumbup:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleswimmingfast


Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 1,013
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Freedom]
    #16357114 - 06/10/12 01:55 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

The biological argument that the article asserts is kind of compelling. But, I think biology changes and morphs over time in various manners - and that's natural. If humans were/are biologically herbivores, then, what's so unnatural about us developing biologically to omnivores or carnivores?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleThe Fresh PrintsS
Smell ya later
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/20/12
Posts: 1,373
Loc: Bel-Air Flag
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast]
    #16357281 - 06/10/12 02:36 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

It's all relative. People who bash vegetarians tend to be the unhealthiest "meat and potatoes" types, who wont eat anything green, and are unable to fathom a life without meat simply because they hate vegetables. I was raised by vegetarians, though I am not one myself, I refuse to eat pork, and I'm very picky about other meats. my dad hadn't eaten meat for 20 years when we convinced him (after a few drinks) to eat some turkey one year for thanksgiving. Shortly after eating it, he became very sick. His gallbladder burst that night, the surgeon who removed it blamed the turkey. His gallbladder was unable to process it!!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast]
    #16357390 - 06/10/12 03:03 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Human history is concluded imo that humans through time have been omnivores.  We eat meat.

But our evolution and physiology are herbivorous, and ample science proves that when we choose to eat meat, that causes problems, from decreased energy and a need for more sleep up to increased risk for obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer.


I think this is absolute nonsense.  Most problems with meat are due to how that meat is fed and raised and not the meat itself.  Catch up man.

Plus the fact that humans live so much longer than they ever have it seems.  My old man is 94 and eaten meat all his life and has almost never been sick and never been in the hospital.  Go figure.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleswimmingfast


Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 1,013
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: The Fresh Prints]
    #16357938 - 06/10/12 05:14 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Genghis Chron said:
...my dad hadn't eaten meat for 20 years when we convinced him (after a few drinks) to eat some turkey one year for thanksgiving. Shortly after eating it, he became very sick. His gallbladder burst that night, the surgeon who removed it blamed the turkey. His gallbladder was unable to process it!!




Interesting :strokebeard:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast]
    #16358074 - 06/10/12 05:36 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

And slightly unbelievable.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFreedom
Will swim for food
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,299
Last seen: 19 days, 3 hours
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Icelander]
    #16358253 - 06/10/12 06:07 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

more than slightly unbelievable


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMemories
 User Gallery


Registered: 05/10/12
Posts: 10,484
Loc: Suwannee River
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Freedom] * 1
    #16358614 - 06/10/12 07:12 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Completely unbelievable


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast]
    #16359264 - 06/10/12 10:25 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

"nature" is really a bullshit concept that either implies duality where there is no evidence for it or one which is so broad that in effect it actually means nothing. nature is delusion. to question whether humans eating meat is natural is ridiculous. nature doesn't exist.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: blingbling]
    #16359721 - 06/10/12 02:43 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

but some thick cut smokey bacon is real. :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleThe Fresh PrintsS
Smell ya later
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/20/12
Posts: 1,373
Loc: Bel-Air Flag
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Memories]
    #16366041 - 06/11/12 11:26 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Believe it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFreedom
Will swim for food
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,299
Last seen: 19 days, 3 hours
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: The Fresh Prints]
    #16366071 - 06/11/12 11:33 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

I was taught that gallbladders process bile not meat, and bile is for processing fat not meat


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesanchothestoner
Satan's Grandson
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 15,623
Loc: Bucketheadland
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Freedom]
    #16366099 - 06/11/12 11:41 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

I've been vegetarian for a couple months, I definitely feel a lot better than when I was eating meat.  I'll probably never eat meat again :yesnod:


--------------------
I fucking hate you... God damn, I love you...
But we both know if we stick together, we'll just tear ourselves apart
You are my sunshine, my only sunshine, you make me happy, when skies are grey
You are my heroin, but there's an abscess... God damn, I miss the vein!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleThe Fresh PrintsS
Smell ya later
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/20/12
Posts: 1,373
Loc: Bel-Air Flag
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: The Fresh Prints]
    #16366109 - 06/11/12 11:47 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

The liver and the gallbladder are also affected by the vegetarian diet. Fig. alongside shows the presence of stones in the gall-bladder which can occur in as much as 10% of the population above the age of 70 years. It is interesting to note that the incidence of gall-stones in vegetarians is significantly less. The high fibre content of the vegetarian diet causes reduced deoxycholate absorption which in turn increases the synthesis of chenodeoxycholate. The latter affects the cholesterol saturation of the bile resulting in less stone formation. In fact patients having gall-stones are prescribed high fibre vegetarian diets in order to reduce further gall-stone formation.

Source: http://www.bhj.org/books/diets/chap3.htm

Are you suggesting that I made that story up?

If it is possible for the vegetarian diet to affect a gallbladder in this way, what would you expect to happen when exposed to meat for the first time in 20 years? Nothing?

Still "completely unbelievable"?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesanchothestoner
Satan's Grandson
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 15,623
Loc: Bucketheadland
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: The Fresh Prints]
    #16366122 - 06/11/12 11:50 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Don't worry, I believed you from the start! :P


--------------------
I fucking hate you... God damn, I love you...
But we both know if we stick together, we'll just tear ourselves apart
You are my sunshine, my only sunshine, you make me happy, when skies are grey
You are my heroin, but there's an abscess... God damn, I miss the vein!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSmallestPutrid
lallafa

Registered: 06/17/11
Posts: 80
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast]
    #16366123 - 06/11/12 11:51 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

1. infants cannot survive on a vegan diet,
2. our teeth are designed to tear into flesh.


--------------------

if thumbs evolved underwater first
theyd have reverse submarines


breathing outhere is reflecting us halfway


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFreedom
Will swim for food
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,299
Last seen: 19 days, 3 hours
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: The Fresh Prints]
    #16366223 - 06/12/12 12:15 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not suggesting you made the story up. But the story does seem like a tall tale. Perhaps some one misinterpreted the suregeon. Or maybe it was just a simple telephone game type error.

How could eating meat once after being a vegetarian for 20 years cause the instantaneous formation of gall stones so big they'd rupture the gall bladder? Doesn't make sense.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesanchothestoner
Satan's Grandson
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 15,623
Loc: Bucketheadland
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: SmallestPutrid]
    #16366242 - 06/12/12 12:20 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SmallestPutrid said:
1. infants cannot survive on a vegan diet,
2. our teeth are designed to tear into flesh.




Beg to differ, a family I know is vegan and their daughter has been vegan her entire life.  She's like 2 and a half years old.


--------------------
I fucking hate you... God damn, I love you...
But we both know if we stick together, we'll just tear ourselves apart
You are my sunshine, my only sunshine, you make me happy, when skies are grey
You are my heroin, but there's an abscess... God damn, I miss the vein!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleThe Fresh PrintsS
Smell ya later
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/20/12
Posts: 1,373
Loc: Bel-Air Flag
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Freedom]
    #16366384 - 06/12/12 12:54 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Freedom said:
I'm not suggesting you made the story up. But the story does seem like a tall tale. Perhaps some one misinterpreted the suregeon. Or maybe it was just a simple telephone game type error.

How could eating meat once after being a vegetarian for 20 years cause the instantaneous formation of gall stones so big they'd rupture the gall bladder? Doesn't make sense.





Took probably four or five hours for him to be experiencing some serious discomfort. I didn't say gallstones formed and caused a rupture, I was only providing evidence that the vegetarian diet has a real and significant effect on the gallbladder.

Call it a tall tale if you want, but I do resent the implication.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepsychotropicwhale
Cetacean


Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 817
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast]
    #16366440 - 06/12/12 01:06 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

swimmingfast said:
Supposedly, our biological make-up has never adapted to eating meat and the fact that this article claims is that we are still, up to this day, naturally and biologically herbivores. What are your thoughts?




This guy is completely full of shit.  He is PETA with a lab coat.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSmallestPutrid
lallafa

Registered: 06/17/11
Posts: 80
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: sanchothestoner]
    #16366452 - 06/12/12 01:09 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

http://naturalhygienesociety.org/diet-veganbaby.html

dha, brain eye development..

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html

blah blah, you wanna talk compassion, i think plants are conscious too

maybe you should starve yourself



--------------------

if thumbs evolved underwater first
theyd have reverse submarines


breathing outhere is reflecting us halfway


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFreedom
Will swim for food
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,299
Last seen: 19 days, 3 hours
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: The Fresh Prints]
    #16366490 - 06/12/12 01:19 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Genghis Chron said:
Quote:

Freedom said:
I'm not suggesting you made the story up. But the story does seem like a tall tale. Perhaps some one misinterpreted the suregeon. Or maybe it was just a simple telephone game type error.

How could eating meat once after being a vegetarian for 20 years cause the instantaneous formation of gall stones so big they'd rupture the gall bladder? Doesn't make sense.





Took probably four or five hours for him to be experiencing some serious discomfort. I didn't say gallstones formed and caused a rupture, I was only providing evidence that the vegetarian diet has a real and significant effect on the gallbladder.

Call it a tall tale if you want, but I do resent the implication.





If I believed every story I was told my gallblader would explode from contradiction


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetimelapses
Life in free form
Male


Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 4,600
Loc: in a shroomery prison
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Freedom]
    #16366682 - 06/12/12 02:18 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Eat a vegetarian diet then go to a meat based diet.  You'll get it very quick IMO.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKupo
Kupop!


Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 2,112
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: timelapses]
    #16366746 - 06/12/12 02:41 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

timelapses said:
Eat a vegetarian diet then go to a meat based diet.  You'll get it very quick IMO.




This is something I have been noticing while meandering back and forth between diets.

I have a much harder time taking a poop after eating red meat. I have also noticed that my asthma has increased after reintroducing red meat into my diet, something that had seemingly vanished.

Needless to say I'm still an omnivore, I just will very rarely be eating meat. Thanksgiving turkey, you know..

Fish doesn't bother anything at all. Love me some fish.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFreedom
Will swim for food
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,299
Last seen: 19 days, 3 hours
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: timelapses]
    #16367101 - 06/12/12 04:18 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

I was vegetarian for 2 or 3 years.

Go backpacking for 10 days and when you come back to civilization eat some fatty meat and tell me your body doesn't love it :lol:

I eat mostly vegetables and a little meat but its the cheese that gets me every time :smile:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 6 days
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast]
    #16367347 - 06/12/12 05:04 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16352864#16352864

I posted this a few days ago in the Culinary forum. The Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn diet is ON! This is an experiment to test his claims, not necessarily with a complete set of angiograms, but with a complete lipid panel. This morning I postponed my 6 month cardiology appointment for mid August, and my blood work up for a week earlier so that I have data to share. I have done all kinds of things like vary the amount of Red Yeast Rice (5-7% Statins), plus CoQ10 to replace the loss due to Statins, plus Milk Thistle to detoxify the liver from the Statins - all to reduce LDL Cholesterol. I have taken up to 2 gms of Niacin a day to increase HDL levels. The numbers have been reduced, "better than Mevacor®," according to one of my physicians, but not where I want it to be.

Having eliminated any fats or oils from my diet over the past week has shown me one positive effect. I could never tolerate beans of any kind without an obscene amount of flatulence, even with multiple tabs of Beano®. I am taking one tablet (only a few left), but there is very little gas, no distension, or pain! It would seem that oils/fats slow the digestive process to the extent that colonic fermentation results. I'll be off the Beano® and I'll see if I need the enzyme at all. :publicfart:

I have listed the essential Dos and Donts of the diet. I have some fat cravings at night, which I am sating for the time being with a tablespoon of almond butter. Peanut butter is out of the question (both remain in the fridge). So, when these are gone, I'm going to experiment with 'bean butters' that I'll be able to flavor in any way that seems palatable from sweet to savory. I'll try to make a variety of sandwich speads. We have flours on order because all whole grains are part of the diet. So I plan on making bulgar & oat flour pancakes (maple syrup is acceptable, not butter), corn, and wheat yeast breads. There ate 2 kinds of black bean burgers that I'm going to make and put on whole grain or Ezekiel® bread rolls. I'm actually excited about this experiment, and if the numbers come down as far as they are supposed to, I'll be as amazed as I will be excited! Cardio-vascular disease runs on the maternal side, and I've already read an X-ray report stating a degree of "aortic calcification." I can drink red wine, so giving up cheese and chocolate will be a minor grief. I can get over eggs, fish and fowl (only ate lean ground beef 1-2 times a month for years), as long as there's bread, rices, pastas.

I am doing this for health, but I've always admired ethical vegetarians and vegans. Campbell's The China Study and Esselstyn's Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease, together is a paradigm that is worth experimenting with IMO. If it works, there will be no logic in regressing to the S.A.D. diet in any degree. Animal proteins (Casein is a case in point) may WELL BE  a source of cancers in humans. I'll continue to use Olympia® Pea Protein daily, and exercise (cardio, resistance, and Yoga) to maintain stamina, muscle mass, and flexibility. We'll see...  :cheers:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: sanchothestoner]
    #16367786 - 06/12/12 06:30 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

sanchothestoner said:
Quote:

SmallestPutrid said:
1. infants cannot survive on a vegan diet,
2. our teeth are designed to tear into flesh.




Beg to differ, a family I know is vegan and their daughter has been vegan her entire life.  She's like 2 and a half years old.




not allowing your children to consume any animal products should be considered child abuse just as feeding your children fatty food until they develop diabetes should be considered child abuse. my girlfriend grew up with a family who were all vegan. she reckons the kids were very frial and always looked tired.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesanchothestoner
Satan's Grandson
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 15,623
Loc: Bucketheadland
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: blingbling]
    #16367826 - 06/12/12 06:39 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

I was actually mistaken, they are vegetarian.  My bad :blush:


--------------------
I fucking hate you... God damn, I love you...
But we both know if we stick together, we'll just tear ourselves apart
You are my sunshine, my only sunshine, you make me happy, when skies are grey
You are my heroin, but there's an abscess... God damn, I miss the vein!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSaint Marcus
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 765
Last seen: 7 years, 11 days
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: sanchothestoner]
    #16367840 - 06/12/12 06:42 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Yes


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCannashroom
Smoke two Joints
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/26/07
Posts: 2,141
Loc: Everywhere
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: blingbling]
    #16371084 - 06/12/12 10:59 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

blingbling said:
Quote:

sanchothestoner said:
Quote:

SmallestPutrid said:
1. infants cannot survive on a vegan diet,
2. our teeth are designed to tear into flesh.




Beg to differ, a family I know is vegan and their daughter has been vegan her entire life.  She's like 2 and a half years old.




not allowing your children to consume any animal products should be considered child abuse just as feeding your children fatty food until they develop diabetes should be considered child abuse. my girlfriend grew up with a family who were all vegan. she reckons the kids were very frial and always looked tired.




Carbs cause diabetes, not fatty foods.  Cmon now.

As for child abuse.  Vegan parents have been convicted of murder for not feeding their children properly.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html?_r=1


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein


Edited by Cannashroom (06/12/12 11:04 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFreedom
Will swim for food
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,299
Last seen: 19 days, 3 hours
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast] * 1
    #16371228 - 06/12/12 11:31 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Recently evidence was found implicating meat as part of hominid diet a million years than earlier thought:

http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100811/full/news.2010.399.html

this article makes the claim that we owe our big brains in part to adding meat to our diet:

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128849908


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast] * 2
    #16371316 - 06/12/12 11:48 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

I think omnivore, herbivore and carnivore can all be 'natural' for humans.  Humans, like few other animals, have an ability to consume, survive and thrive off of a variety of food sources.  From the tropics to the arctic circle our 'natural' diet spans the spectrum.  Usually its some ratio of omnivore, but the others effectively happen occasionally too.

As for the OP, tl;dr :tongue:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,406
Loc: Under the C
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Freedom] * 1
    #16371341 - 06/12/12 11:53 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Baby raised on a vegan diet:



--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleswimmingfast


Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 1,013
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16373607 - 06/13/12 07:15 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

This post is about a vegetarianism, not vegans. There is a difference between the two concepts. This is just a reminder since I've read some posts regarding vegans.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,406
Loc: Under the C
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast]
    #16373814 - 06/13/12 07:54 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Vegans are from Vega.

Vegetarians are from Vegetaria.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16374805 - 06/13/12 01:14 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

vega was my favourite character in street fighter.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineR0B0G3N3S1S
Quantum Mechanic

Registered: 04/08/15
Posts: 330
Loc: Noosphere
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21812599 - 06/16/15 06:39 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Vegans are from Vega.

Vegetarians are from Vegetaria.




Maybe meat eating originated from canibalism, fish was probably seperate.


--------------------
One should of, but shouldn't of had to.
Because One Shouldn't of, but had to.
Pm me If you are trying to discuss that one thing that everybody knows but is so hard to put into words.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDoggSnoop
Stranger


Registered: 04/26/15
Posts: 6
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: R0B0G3N3S1S] * 1
    #21813611 - 06/16/15 04:29 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I think for humans a vegetarian diet is just as natural as a meat-based diet; we can easily adapt to different environments and circumstances.

There are lots of people living on third world countries that can't afford meat, so their diet is mostly, if not only, vegetables. There are also those villages living outside 'normal society' that require hunting for survival, their lands being not suitable for farming. We also have people from the cities that have a wide variety of choice...

Now to the question that seems to be popping on this thread "Is it morally right to eat meat?"
I don't think so, but I won't go into arguments. Instead I'll just drop this here.

I think it's really easy to "just eat meat", specially when it's easily accessible and processed. It would be interesting to see those in favor of such action create a bond with any kind of animal to later kill it with their bare hands and rip it apart for the pleasure of eating.
Funny how some of those would go on to profess things such as "we are one", "every being is conscious" and the likes.

I would like to quote H.D.Thoreau here:

"One farmer says to me, 'You cannot live on vegetable food solely, for it furnishes nothing to make bones with;' and so he religiously devotes a part of his day to supplying his system with the raw material of bones, walking all the while he talks behind his oxen, which, with vegetable-made bones, jerk him and his lumbering plough along in spite of every obstacle. Some things are really necessaries of life in some circles, the most helpless and diseased, which in others are luxuries merely, and in others still are entirely unknown."

"There is a certain class of unbelievers who sometimes ask me such question as, if I think I can live on vegetable food alone; and to strike at the root of the matter at once, - for the root is faith, - I am accustomed to answer such, that i can live on board nails. If they cannot understand that, they cannot understand much that I have to say."

And yes, I am a vegetarian (for 3 years now).

EDIT: nice necro


Edited by DoggSnoop (06/16/15 05:28 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCosmopolite
Wannabe Linguist
Male


Registered: 03/27/15
Posts: 192
Last seen: 7 years, 18 days
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: DoggSnoop] * 1
    #21817257 - 06/17/15 08:47 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, people have been eating meat for millions of years. I don't see how that would pertain to anyone's personal diet in a developed country in this day and age. People back then killed each other with spears and shit, does that mean it's alright for you to go do it? You can get every nutrient that you need from a vegan diet if you take supplements, and i'm sure a baby could take supplements too. I take a vegan b12 supplement that comes in a liquid form that even a baby could take. You don't need as much protein as you think you do, but yes it is vital, and yes you can get all the protein you need from a vegetarian/vegan diet. There are many different plant combinations, and even plants by themselves, that form a complete protein when eaten.

When i switched to vegetarianism i started to feel a lot more energetic. These days i'm a vegan and i'm overweight because i eat all day. If you saw me on the street you would never be able to guess from my appearance that i'm a vegan.

With the remarkable ability that humans have to form and communicate complex abstract thoughts, and to contemplate all sorts of philosophic questions, it bamboozles me why anyone in the developed world these days would see it as acceptable to cage an animal for its entire life and then brutally slaughter it for the frivolous reason that they liked what it tastes like. Since the day i started thinking about it, it has been abundantly clear to me that since i wouldn't like for that to happen to myself, it's probably wise not to do that to my fellow creatures.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Cosmopolite]
    #21817827 - 06/17/15 02:54 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

When we speak of a vegetarian diet, that can cover a lot of ground.  Merely eliminating meat is only a part of that story.  What replaced the meat?

If we say soy, then we are fucked.  Soy is crap, it's absolute garbage, and it's in freaking everything.  Literally 95% of soy is Monsanto RoundUp ready nasty ass garbage.  It's all GMO, it's an endocrine disruptor, and worse.  Just one example.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,406
Loc: Under the C
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #21818524 - 06/17/15 07:40 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Soy-lent - mere coincidence?


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblehobowizard
beginner
Registered: 04/10/15
Posts: 192
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21826850 - 06/19/15 03:07 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

It actually kinda is, because of our teeth and jaw structure. (a study revealed this by some russian scientist). But! we need B12 (and many other substances) which is only in meat. So anyway, vegetarianism is not good at least while you're young.


Edited by hobowizard (06/19/15 03:07 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineR0B0G3N3S1S
Quantum Mechanic

Registered: 04/08/15
Posts: 330
Loc: Noosphere
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: hobowizard]
    #21830530 - 06/20/15 08:00 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Even our ape ancestors hunt in groups for meat,


--------------------
One should of, but shouldn't of had to.
Because One Shouldn't of, but had to.
Pm me If you are trying to discuss that one thing that everybody knows but is so hard to put into words.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineyouknowyou
Stranger
Registered: 07/28/14
Posts: 247
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Cosmopolite]
    #21849956 - 06/24/15 08:08 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cosmopolite said:
Yes, people have been eating meat for millions of years. I don't see how that would pertain to anyone's personal diet in a developed country in this day and age. People back then killed each other with spears and shit, does that mean it's alright for you to go do it? You can get every nutrient that you need from a vegan diet if you take supplements, and i'm sure a baby could take supplements too. I take a vegan b12 supplement that comes in a liquid form that even a baby could take. You don't need as much protein as you think you do, but yes it is vital, and yes you can get all the protein you need from a vegetarian/vegan diet. There are many different plant combinations, and even plants by themselves, that form a complete protein when eaten.

When i switched to vegetarianism i started to feel a lot more energetic. These days i'm a vegan and i'm overweight because i eat all day. If you saw me on the street you would never be able to guess from my appearance that i'm a vegan.

With the remarkable ability that humans have to form and communicate complex abstract thoughts, and to contemplate all sorts of philosophic questions, it bamboozles me why anyone in the developed world these days would see it as acceptable to cage an animal for its entire life and then brutally slaughter it for the frivolous reason that they liked what it tastes like. Since the day i started thinking about it, it has been abundantly clear to me that since i wouldn't like for that to happen to myself, it's probably wise not to do that to my fellow creatures.



yep, im a vegetarian for the same reason.

natural or not, how we treat the animals is not OK at all, worst, its a fucking crime against nature, against life.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast]
    #21850117 - 06/24/15 08:51 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

It's natural for humans to eat meat as it is natural for humans to eat vegetarian.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSun King
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/15/14
Posts: 4,069
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #21850120 - 06/24/15 08:54 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Is it natural for humans to eat Oxycontin?


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Sun King]
    #21850135 - 06/24/15 09:02 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Yes.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleKhancious
da Crow
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/05/12
Posts: 628
Loc: Behind Everything
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Sun King]
    #21850144 - 06/24/15 09:04 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sun King said:
Is it natural for humans to eat Oxycontin?




Doesn't that have thorns in it? You gotta be an oxy-moron to try that

:girlofdisapproval:


--------------------
I am that, which is.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Khancious]
    #21850157 - 06/24/15 09:07 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

This is when I'm supposed to get back into it, after my sloppy albeit correct response.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleKhancious
da Crow
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/05/12
Posts: 628
Loc: Behind Everything
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #21850206 - 06/24/15 09:20 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

What is correct? Last time I heard that term was in school and mainstream media.

:heytheresexy:


--------------------
I am that, which is.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Khancious]
    #21850253 - 06/24/15 09:31 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Khancious said:
:heytheresexy:



:girlofdisapproval:


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleKhancious
da Crow
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/05/12
Posts: 628
Loc: Behind Everything
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #21850277 - 06/24/15 09:36 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

:icouldjusteatyou:


--------------------
I am that, which is.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]

Shop: Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   North Spore Injection Grain Bag   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* If humans were categorized by humans Ravus 1,087 13 11/21/04 06:21 AM
by JacquesCousteau
* Human mind vs body(Re:the self post)
( 1 2 all )
PsycheStudent 3,690 24 05/04/10 01:11 AM
by BluePixieWaves
* How do you view nature so blissfully?
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
bandaid 7,245 89 08/19/04 03:22 PM
by Zoso_UK
* Humans are out of balance with earth......NOT!!!
( 1 2 all )
atomikfunksoldier 2,912 37 06/16/03 10:43 PM
by infidelGOD
* Satan worship & Human Sacrifice
( 1 2 all )
Ellis Dee 4,795 35 02/08/02 08:07 PM
by insectvhore
* Alien/Human Relations, Version 2
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
ShroomismM 14,698 103 02/09/04 03:12 AM
by Shroomism
* vegetarianism - dietary practices
( 1 2 3 4 all )
raytrace 4,809 60 03/06/02 12:14 AM
by raytrace
* If chicken egg farming is a perversion of nature...
( 1 2 all )
JacquesCousteau 2,698 21 04/11/04 02:41 AM
by MarkostheGnostic

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
3,022 topic views. 2 members, 2 guests and 2 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2023 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.047 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 15 queries.