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Invisibleswimmingfast


Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 1,013
Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans?
    #16357032 - 06/09/12 04:32 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Is human vegetarianism natural?

I have recently read an article that claims humans were, and always have been, herbivores. Supposedly, our biological make-up has never adapted to eating meat and the fact that this article claims is that we are still, up to this day, naturally and biologically herbivores. What are your thoughts?


Here is that article:

Going through the comments of some of my recent posts, I noticed the frequently stated notion that eating meat was an essential step in human evolution. While this notion may comfort the meat industry, it's simply not true, scientifically.

Dr. T. Colin Campbell, professor emeritus at Cornell University and author of The China Study, explains that in fact, we only recently (historically speaking) began eating meat, and that the inclusion of meat in our diet came well after we became who we are today. He explains that "the birth of agriculture only started about 10,000 years ago at a time when it became considerably more convenient to herd animals. This is not nearly as long as the time [that] fashioned our basic biochemical functionality (at least tens of millions of years) and which functionality depends on the nutrient composition of plant-based foods."

That jibes with what Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine President Dr. Neal Barnard says in his book, The Power of Your Plate, in which he explains that "early humans had diets very much like other great apes, which is to say a largely plant-based diet, drawing on foods we can pick with our hands. Research suggests that meat-eating probably began by scavenging--eating the leftovers that carnivores had left behind. However, our bodies have never adapted to it. To this day, meat-eaters have a higher incidence of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and other problems."

There is no more authoritative source on anthropological issues than paleontologist Dr. Richard Leakey, who explains what anyone who has taken an introductory physiology course might have discerned intuitively--that humans are herbivores. Leakey notes that "[y]ou can't tear flesh by hand, you can't tear hide by hand.... We wouldn't have been able to deal with food source that required those large canines" (although we have teeth that are called "canines," they bear little resemblance to the canines of carnivores).

In fact, our hands are perfect for grabbing and picking fruits and vegetables. Similarly, like the intestines of other herbivores, ours are very long (carnivores have short intestines so they can quickly get rid of all that rotting flesh they eat). We don't have sharp claws to seize and hold down prey. And most of us (hopefully) lack the instinct that would drive us to chase and then kill animals and devour their raw carcasses. Dr. Milton Mills builds on these points and offers dozens more in his essay, "A Comparative Anatomy of Eating."

The point is this: Thousands of years ago when we were hunter-gatherers, we may have needed a bit of meat in our diets in times of scarcity, but we don't need it now. Says Dr. William C. Roberts, editor of the American Journal of Cardiology, "Although we think we are, and we act as if we are, human beings are not natural carnivores. When we kill animals to eat them, they end up killing us, because their flesh, which contains cholesterol and saturated fat, was never intended for human beings, who are natural herbivores."

Sure, most of us are "behavioral omnivores"--that is, we eat meat, so that defines us as omnivorous. But our evolution and physiology are herbivorous, and ample science proves that when we choose to eat meat, that causes problems, from decreased energy and a need for more sleep up to increased risk for obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer.

Old habits die hard, and it's convenient for people who like to eat meat to think that there is evidence to support their belief that eating meat is "natural" or the cause of our evolution. For many years, I too, clung to the idea that meat and dairy were good for me; I realize now that I was probably comforted to have justification for my continued attachment to the traditions I grew up with.

But in fact top nutritional and anthropological scientists from the most reputable institutions imaginable say categorically that humans are natural herbivores, and that we will be healthier today if we stick with our herbivorous roots. It may be inconvenient, but it alas, it is the truth.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/shattering-the-meat-myth_b_214390.html

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Offlinesharkeye
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Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast]
    #16357048 - 06/09/12 04:36 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Then why do we have canine teeth?

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Offlinevinnymontana21
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Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast]
    #16357059 - 06/09/12 04:40 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

apes eat the bugs off each other for grooming and what not. i bet they always have. and i think we developed from some kind of prehistoric primate. it all depends on the meat you eat. commercial food is next to toxic. also early humans were nomads and hunter gatherers, they followed bison/cattle heards. some were so nomadic they made it to the americas. I also saw in a documentary called neanderthals and it talks about how neanderthals ate almost 80 percent meat. i know neanderthals were a completely different race, but the cro magnons must of lived on a good amount of meat also.


--------------------
some things have to be believed to be seen.

catch our vapors

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast] * 1
    #16357073 - 06/09/12 04:46 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

It is natural for humans to survive by any means necessary.

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Offlinevinnymontana21
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Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Freedom]
    #16357087 - 06/09/12 04:50 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

i will be mean as fuck if it is necessary for survival.


--------------------
some things have to be believed to be seen.

catch our vapors

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Offlinesharkeye
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Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: vinnymontana21]
    #16357111 - 06/09/12 04:55 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Ima bout to grill chicken now....fuck their study!:thumbup:

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Invisibleswimmingfast


Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 1,013
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Freedom]
    #16357114 - 06/09/12 04:55 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

The biological argument that the article asserts is kind of compelling. But, I think biology changes and morphs over time in various manners - and that's natural. If humans were/are biologically herbivores, then, what's so unnatural about us developing biologically to omnivores or carnivores?

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InvisibleThe Fresh PrintsS
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Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast]
    #16357281 - 06/09/12 05:36 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

It's all relative. People who bash vegetarians tend to be the unhealthiest "meat and potatoes" types, who wont eat anything green, and are unable to fathom a life without meat simply because they hate vegetables. I was raised by vegetarians, though I am not one myself, I refuse to eat pork, and I'm very picky about other meats. my dad hadn't eaten meat for 20 years when we convinced him (after a few drinks) to eat some turkey one year for thanksgiving. Shortly after eating it, he became very sick. His gallbladder burst that night, the surgeon who removed it blamed the turkey. His gallbladder was unable to process it!!

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast]
    #16357390 - 06/09/12 06:03 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Human history is concluded imo that humans through time have been omnivores.  We eat meat.

But our evolution and physiology are herbivorous, and ample science proves that when we choose to eat meat, that causes problems, from decreased energy and a need for more sleep up to increased risk for obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer.


I think this is absolute nonsense.  Most problems with meat are due to how that meat is fed and raised and not the meat itself.  Catch up man.

Plus the fact that humans live so much longer than they ever have it seems.  My old man is 94 and eaten meat all his life and has almost never been sick and never been in the hospital.  Go figure.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleswimmingfast


Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 1,013
Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: The Fresh Prints]
    #16357938 - 06/09/12 08:14 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Genghis Chron said:
...my dad hadn't eaten meat for 20 years when we convinced him (after a few drinks) to eat some turkey one year for thanksgiving. Shortly after eating it, he became very sick. His gallbladder burst that night, the surgeon who removed it blamed the turkey. His gallbladder was unable to process it!!




Interesting :strokebeard:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast]
    #16358074 - 06/09/12 08:36 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

And slightly unbelievable.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Icelander]
    #16358253 - 06/09/12 09:07 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

more than slightly unbelievable

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OfflineMemories
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Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Freedom] * 1
    #16358614 - 06/09/12 10:12 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Completely unbelievable

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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
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Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: swimmingfast]
    #16359264 - 06/10/12 01:25 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

"nature" is really a bullshit concept that either implies duality where there is no evidence for it or one which is so broad that in effect it actually means nothing. nature is delusion. to question whether humans eating meat is natural is ridiculous. nature doesn't exist.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: blingbling]
    #16359721 - 06/10/12 05:43 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

but some thick cut smokey bacon is real. :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleThe Fresh PrintsS
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Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Memories]
    #16366041 - 06/11/12 02:26 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Believe it.

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: The Fresh Prints]
    #16366071 - 06/11/12 02:33 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I was taught that gallbladders process bile not meat, and bile is for processing fat not meat

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Offlinesanchothestoner
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Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: Freedom]
    #16366099 - 06/11/12 02:41 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I've been vegetarian for a couple months, I definitely feel a lot better than when I was eating meat.  I'll probably never eat meat again :yesnod:


--------------------
I fucking hate you... God damn, I love you...
But we both know if we stick together, we'll just tear ourselves apart
You are my sunshine, my only sunshine, you make me happy, when skies are grey
You are my heroin, but there's an abscess... God damn, I miss the vein!

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InvisibleThe Fresh PrintsS
Smell ya later
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Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: The Fresh Prints]
    #16366109 - 06/11/12 02:47 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

The liver and the gallbladder are also affected by the vegetarian diet. Fig. alongside shows the presence of stones in the gall-bladder which can occur in as much as 10% of the population above the age of 70 years. It is interesting to note that the incidence of gall-stones in vegetarians is significantly less. The high fibre content of the vegetarian diet causes reduced deoxycholate absorption which in turn increases the synthesis of chenodeoxycholate. The latter affects the cholesterol saturation of the bile resulting in less stone formation. In fact patients having gall-stones are prescribed high fibre vegetarian diets in order to reduce further gall-stone formation.

Source: http://www.bhj.org/books/diets/chap3.htm

Are you suggesting that I made that story up?

If it is possible for the vegetarian diet to affect a gallbladder in this way, what would you expect to happen when exposed to meat for the first time in 20 years? Nothing?

Still "completely unbelievable"?

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Offlinesanchothestoner
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Re: Vegetarianism, is it natural for humans? [Re: The Fresh Prints]
    #16366122 - 06/11/12 02:50 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Don't worry, I believed you from the start! :P


--------------------
I fucking hate you... God damn, I love you...
But we both know if we stick together, we'll just tear ourselves apart
You are my sunshine, my only sunshine, you make me happy, when skies are grey
You are my heroin, but there's an abscess... God damn, I miss the vein!

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