Home | Community | Message Board

High Mountain Compost
Please support our sponsors.

Feedback and Administration >> Shroomery News Service

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
old hand
 User Gallery
Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 6,019
Last seen: 3 days, 7 hours
Highway drug searches back in court again
    #1634947 - 06/15/03 01:32 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)


June 15, 2003
Highway drug searches back in court again
Lawyers question dogs? reliability


It started as a routine traffic stop on chilly New Year?s day when Ohio Highway Patrol Trooper Stacey L. Arnold saw a minivan stray outside the lanes on the Ohio Turnpike.

When the driver, Can T. Nguyen, appeared overly nervous, his hands trembling as he handed over his driver?s license, Trooper Arnold headed over to her car to get her drug-detecting dog, Ringo.

The black and tan Belgian Malinois alerted to drugs, giving the trooper the probable cause she needed to search the minivan. She found what she was looking for - 113 pounds of suspected marijuana in a cargo area.

But now Mr. Nguyen?s defense lawyer is questioning how often the dog is wrong - how often he behaves as if drugs are in a vehicle, but none is found. And Lucas County Common Pleas Judge Frederick McDonald has ordered state troopers to produce those records.

"They are dogs," said Spiros Cocoves, Mr. Nguyen?s attorney. "They are not machines or computers. You just can?t assume they are always reliable. There has to be a demonstration of continued reliability."

But Lucas County prosecutors are fighting Judge McDonald?s order, appealing it to the 6th District Court of Appeals. A pretrial hearing is scheduled for Tuesday.

John Weglian, chief of the special units division of the prosecutor?s office, said the reports are not a reliable indicator of Ringo?s ability to detect drugs.

"The canine-use reports are absolutely meaningless," he said. "Just because the dog indicates to the presence of drugs, the dog is not saying the drugs are in the vehicle. Instead it is reacting positively to the odor of drugs."

In April, Trooper Arnold, testifying at a hearing for Mr. Nguyen, who along with his passengers Quang Ton and Thach Wana, all of Washington state, are charged with possession and trafficking in marijuana, said Ringo has been used in more than 500 traffic stops in the last three years. But she didn?t know how many times Ringo indicated there were drugs, but none was found.

Despite Judge McDonald?s ruling, deference has been given to drug-sniffing dogs. David Harris, a University of Toledo law professor, said the U.S. Supreme Court held in 1983 that officers could search a vehicle stopped for a traffic offense if a drug-detecting dog indicated it contained narcotics or marijuana.

"The Supreme Court said the dogs are special and they are uniquely accurate in detecting for drugs," Mr. Harris said. "In the 20 years since the court made that decision, the accuracy of the dogs has been called into question many times. But the ruling has always been upheld.

"It means police can use the dogs for a search on a vehicle and they can use the dog without any probable cause or suspicion of any kind. They don?t need a search warrant. They don?t need anything."

In decisions on suppression hearings in similar seizures on the turnpike, four Lucas County Common Pleas Court judges have rejected requests from attorneys for defendants seeking similar information.

The judges, relying on decisions from higher courts including the Ohio 6th District Court of Appeals, said only records pertaining to the certification, training, and accreditation of dogs and troopers can be used to challenge a search.

The issue of reliability of drug-sniffing dogs is relevant given the number of seizures troopers have made. The $5.2 million worth of marijuana seized in Mr. Nguyen?s minivan was among nearly two dozen investigations initiated by the highway patrol on the turnpike over the last 18 months that involved large drug seizures.

More than 2,800 pounds of marijuana, 105 pounds of cocaine, and 23 pounds of illegal mushrooms were confiscated in the searches. All the investigations involved the use of drug-detection dogs, with all but one occurring within an eight-mile area on the turnpike near Toledo Express Airport.

Sgt. Robin Schmutz, a spokesman for the Ohio Highway Patrol, said troopers take into consideration a number of factors before deciding to use dogs to inspect vehicles on traffic stops.

A driver or passenger acting nervously or avoiding eye contact, more than one cell phone in a vehicle, strange odors, items strewn about in a car, and conflicting information about travel itinerary are among the indicators of possible drug activity, Sergeant Schmutz said.

"There are lots of criminal indicators: if travel plans don?t make sense, if someone is driving for three straight days but doesn?t have a reason for driving for that long, are indicators that something is out of the ordinary," she said.

Trooper Arnold is among three troopers assigned to the patrol?s drug interdiction unit at district headquarters in Findlay who patrol with a dog.

In most instances, they stopped a vehicle on a traffic violation and had the dog in the patrol car available for a search. In other arrests, they were nearby and called to assist another trooper who did not have a dog in their car.

Last year, Trooper Arnold arrested 43 defendants in 30 investigations, with about 20 occurring on the turnpike. She received special recognition from the patrol for having the most felony drug arrests.

Given the heavy use of dogs, Mr. Harris of the University of Toledo said it?s relevant for defense attorneys to question their reliability.

"You can?t accept the evidence from the dog search without questions," he said. "If someone raises questions about accuracy in the dog?s ability to detect drugs, then it seems reasonable that the government should be able to substantiate the dog?s record."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Male User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 18,073
Re: Highway drug searches back in court again [Re: motaman]
    #1636105 - 06/16/03 12:09 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"and 23 pounds of illegal mushrooms were confiscated in the searches."

can drugs dogs smell mushrooms alone? I bet those 23 pounds were when the dogs smelled weed and along with it were the mushrooms... am I wrong?

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Highway drug searches back in court again [Re: 2Experimental]
    #1636246 - 06/16/03 01:21 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Most drug dogs are not trained to smell mushrooms. I know the ones in my area are not as I have checked myself (I know the K-9 officer).

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OTD residentvirginwizard-abstinenceain'teasy

Registered: 05/29/02
Posts: 3,072
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Highway drug searches back in court again [Re: 2Experimental]
    #1636251 - 06/16/03 01:26 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

you're mos tlikely right

dogs can be trained to smell for shrooms
but rarely are.

they can even be trained to sniff out lsd

but only one dog is actually known to have
been traind this way.

We live in a world where lemonade is made with artificial flavours and furniture polish is made with all natural lemon.

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Feedback and Administration >> Shroomery News Service

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Man pulls out bag of drugs during court, gets arrested [OH] veggie 1,303 8 10/06/07 05:15 PM
by hoopershroomer
* HISD plans drug searches at employee parking lots Bridgeburner 695 1 12/09/08 01:36 AM
by wireless
* Drug search nets 400 doses of mushrooms
( 1 2 all )
PilzeEssen 3,781 35 05/05/09 09:34 PM
by FugueRider
* Cops kill family pet during drug search [IL]
( 1 2 all )
Wronguy 5,020 38 03/20/07 03:26 PM
by archetype
* School Drug Search Nets Teacher Le_Canard 1,395 12 03/01/08 03:25 PM
by Madnessinc
* Fight in drugs den - court [UK] Bridgeburner 610 3 10/09/08 12:50 AM
by tripp23
* The Supreme Court defines man's best friend (canada) jeverden 511 0 04/28/08 02:43 AM
by jeverden
* Supreme Court to Rule on Drug Dog Limits motamanM 2,134 10 04/18/04 06:04 PM
by DailyPot

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: motaman, karode13, Alan Rockefeller, naum, Mostly_Harmless
1,639 topic views. 0 members, 2 guests and 7 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.045 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 14 queries.