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Anonymous

Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons *DELETED*
    #1634556 - 06/15/03 05:34 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by Teonan


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OfflinePaid
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Re: Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons [Re: ]
    #1634567 - 06/15/03 05:56 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Nice and clear :-)
How do you get the measurement line there? is it on the lens or the glass
slide?


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Anonymous

Re: Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons [Re: Paid]
    #1634913 - 06/15/03 01:11 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

It's an ocular micrometer calibrated with a stage micrometer.
Each small line equals 1.2 microns at 400 X.


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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons [Re: ]
    #1638315 - 06/16/03 10:04 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

a variation is bound to occur between the same species occuring in two different areas. that is what i am assuming, what region or who is Mr. G referring to?

good observations however, i dont think its enough to really consider them variants :smirk:


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Anonymous

Re: Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #1640087 - 06/17/03 05:55 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

The Florida cyanescens you pick in your area is the same as the one they pick in Jacksonville, and Stuart Florida.

This MR.G is a second Copelandia occuring in the SAME REGION, from the same substrate.

The closest variant I have seen to this Mr.G, is a wild mexican Copelandia I got as a mexicana in trade. This mexican copelandia(wild) was different microscopically from another wild mexican Copelandia I got in the same trade as a Copelandia cyanescens.






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Re: Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons [Re: ]
    #1640155 - 06/17/03 06:27 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Hello teonan :smile:


Nice work.

I haven't read through the entire thread so I don't know if this is already mentioned somehwere, but lets not forget about the other 2 known Copelandia species form Florida, Copelandia westii, and Copelandia chlorocystis. Could very well be one of those, have look looked at spore and gill organelle measurements for those two species?


LK,


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Anonymous

Re: Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons [Re: ]
    #1640171 - 06/17/03 06:34 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Just to give you an idea about all the confusion within this Genus. The Tai-Phucket Cystidia morphology would place it under the cambodginiensis or tropicalis. See the Line running through the center of the cystidia!!!! Yet it is 4- spored not 2-spored, and is larger then the tropicalis cystidia should be. It also differs from the cambodginiensis in every other aspect except the line through the cystidia. This line is not typical of cyanescens from any region.

The cambodian cyanescens in circulation also expresses this line in the cystidia, but not typically. It is also alot wider line, when it is present.

ALL OF THE COPELANDIAS IN CIRCULATION SHOW VARIATION MACROSCOPICALLY and MICROSCOPICALLY from each other. Some more so then others.

I use the word variant because no other word describes the variation without assuming they are possibly different species. Compatability tests will ultimately determine how different they really are.

When you view two macroscopic variants of the same species under a scope, it is almost impossible to tell them apart!!! These are so different from eachother it is night and day, not just the MR.G and Florida cyan, but each and every Copelandia in circulation.

Does anyone know if any compatability studies have been done on the Genus Copelandia?





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Anonymous

Re: Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons [Re: Lizard King]
    #1640220 - 06/17/03 06:48 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Chlorocystis has green metuloids, and grows primarliy in SOD not associated with manure. It has never been documented growing in manure. No green metuloids on the MR.G. It grows in dung.

I have been searching for the chlorocystis to add to the digital herbarium, but none forthcoming.

Westii is tricky. I think a lack of clamp connections seperated that species from the rest, the Mr.G has clamps. Never seen a westii either.

Never seen an actual tropicalis either.

According to the literature, the cambodginiensis I have from the OMC is not a cambodginiensis, either.


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Invisiblejtseaweed
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Re: Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons [Re: ]
    #1640236 - 06/17/03 06:57 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

What are some ways to id Copelandia cyanescens without waiting to see if they bruise blue. I know this field that has Copelandia mushrooms growing in it. Im not sure if they are Copelandia cyan. whats differant about cope cyans compared to other Copelandias. Any help here.


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buisness is kickin yo butt


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Anonymous

Re: Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons [Re: jtseaweed]
    #1640331 - 06/17/03 07:51 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

If it bluises blue and is comming from manure where you live and it is not a cubensis it is probably a Copelandia cyanescens Florida. This variant Mr.G, came from Stuart Florida area. It is not typical of what you would probably run into.

Search Copelandia mushrooms and there are plenty of pics of them in the wild.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons [Re: ]
    #1640779 - 06/17/03 11:06 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Do you have access to someone who can conduct spore compatability tests or isozyme analysis? I may know someone who can help, although he is still bogged down in the analysis of the Subaeruginosa and Cyanescens complex.
How did you find those Australian Copelandia - id be interested to see how they compare to international variants.
Ps.Subaeruginosa has a huge macroscopic variancy even among mushrooms with identical microscopic characteristics. Then you get the mushroom with the features consistant with Guzman's Eucalypta being macroscopically identical to his Australiana. There is no consistancy in this complex at all - atleast it appears that the Panaeolus complex has that.


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Re: Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1641804 - 06/18/03 11:03 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

i see, i didnt know they were growing in the same area.

how do you compare the two variants macroscopically when you are in the field? and why do you call them Mr. G?



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Anonymous

Re: Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #1641861 - 06/18/03 11:29 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


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Anonymous

Re: Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons [Re: ]
    #1641870 - 06/18/03 11:32 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

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Re: Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons [Re: ]
    #1641957 - 06/18/03 12:08 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

yea it deserves a 5


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons [Re: ]
    #1641972 - 06/18/03 12:15 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

The interesting thing about the Copelandia tropicalis is that they generally fruit one or two shrooms to evry 1000 Copelandia cyanescens ina given area.

That is why it is strange to hear Mr. G. say that he has a field of P. trpopicalis.

Also he still claims his shrooms came from Hawaii on spores deposited on pineapple slips on sunken Spanish treasure Galleons. Another urban legend since pineapples actually came from Brazil and Paraguay and not from Hawaii.

mj


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Re: Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1643150 - 06/19/03 01:06 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Id say that the true Trop. would be geographically very limited as I dont know anyone yet who has come up with a 2-spored basidia on a Copelandia and that Mr.G didnt have a field of them, because his are four spored - making them a Cyanescens variant.


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Anonymous

Re: Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1651293 - 06/21/03 04:47 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I'm going to be conducting compatability tests as soon as I finish documenting each type that is in circulation.

The Austrailian is very similar to the Hawaiian microscopically.

To me it seems that alot of the problems with this genus is certain characteristics that are used to distinguish them from each other can be found in variants that should not contain them. Measurement wise(sizes) they should all be cyanescens. But they share characteristics with tropicalis and cambodginiensis and chlorocystis, etc...

Personally, they all seem to derive from a single ancestor, and are in the process of actively differentiating away from eachother. Still sharing the occasional Cystidia TYPE, but expressing modifications to the TYPE in greater frequency.



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Anonymous

Re: Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1651301 - 06/21/03 04:50 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yes it is EXTREMELY weird for him to be stating that he had a field of tropicalis. THAT"S WHY I WANTED TO SEE WHAT THEY WERE.

They look different from the type florida cyanescens macro and micro, so he probably just assumed they were tropicalis based on the limited amount of info regarding these shrooms.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Copelandia cyanescens- Florida and Mr.G variant comparisons [Re: ]
    #1651522 - 06/21/03 06:28 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I know. Mr. G. and I have a terrible dislike for each other. He lies about where his shrooms originated from and I noticed that after the PF bust his site is completely down.

I do not need to get into it with him, but I did post the chemical analysis here of the work by Stijve on mushroom specimesn collected in Hawaii, Thailand and Australia.

There were different amounts of various trytamine alkaloids in three separate collections of Copelanida cyanescens from Thailand, Australia and Hawaii of mushrooms collected by me and Anthony Young.

And these were several collections each from various locations in those three ocuntries.

While the Hawaiian Copelandia cyanescens collections were very high in psilocybine and extremely low in psilocine, the Australian specimens revealed high concentraions of psilocine and very low quantities of psilocybine.

I may repost the paper later if anyone asks for it.
mj


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