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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Making Miracles Happen
    #1634280 - 06/15/03 12:43 AM (21 years, 7 days ago)

Making Miracles Happen by Gregory White Smith is a book about surviving an inoperable brain tumor. While very well done and quite inspirational, the usual pitfalls apply. While this may indeed seem quite redundant, note that Gregory was only able to write the book because he DID survive. In other words, those that follow his tenets and die will not be able to testify to the value of his "teachings" nor would he have authored a tome from his grave. Basically there are people that did NOTHING SPECIAL and survived. WTF does that tell us?

It is like a lucky lottery winner that goes on to explain how he won - after the fact! " I had a feeling that day and bet on the numbers of my daughter's birthday," - just like a million other saps who did the exact same thing and lost.

What would be a real testament, would be to give the book to 100 brain tumor patients and compare to another 100 that did not read/ follow the book then check the survivor rate 5-10 years down the road.

Even Smith concedes that "miracles' must be worked for--they don't just happen." Of course this goes against the definition of a miracle - i.e. divine intercession rather than rational, scientific methods being applied towards healing.

This is in accordance with the quaint, but useless saying, "God helps those who help themselves." So if I work a 40 hour per week job instead of staying home and praying for money, then God will "help" me by giving me a paycheck. Well that paycheck will come whether God helps or not, so the cliche has zero meaning.


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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (06/15/03 01:02 AM)

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: Swami]
    #1634298 - 06/15/03 12:52 AM (21 years, 7 days ago)

Oh Swami... when will we all understand that the probability of an event happening is always 100% after the fact?

What would be a real testament, would be to give the book to 100 brain tumor patients and compare to another 100 that did not read/ follow the book then check the survivor rate 5-10 years down the road.
Such a simple yet effective test.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: Sclorch]
    #1634335 - 06/15/03 01:08 AM (21 years, 7 days ago)

Oh Swami... when will we all understand that the probability of an event happening is always 100% after the fact?

Never. The desire for magic is so deeply rooted in our history and culture that it will never be weeded out.

It is very interesting that many of those who proclaim to be in a higher state of consiousness actually operate from the more primitive brain where superstition reigns supreme.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: Swami]
    #1634472 - 06/15/03 02:05 AM (21 years, 7 days ago)

So the book sucked, OK.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: ]
    #1634499 - 06/15/03 02:24 AM (21 years, 7 days ago)

No, the book was well-written and inspiring, but the premise is flawed like most mystical healing books.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: Swami]
    #1634638 - 06/15/03 06:21 AM (21 years, 7 days ago)

Not necessarily;
To attain an effect not encompassed by scientific theory requires work, effort.
Just because YOU may not understand it, doesn't mean it can't be rational, and in fact, if you COULDN'T come to terms with the rationality of the event, when presented evidence, then that would prove a prefference for a state of irrationality.

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: castaway]
    #1635056 - 06/15/03 12:40 PM (21 years, 6 days ago)

castaway: To attain an effect not encompassed by scientific theory requires work, effort.
So, are you saying that doing science is easy or that science makes doing things easy?

Just because YOU may not understand it, doesn't mean it can't be rational, and in fact, if you COULDN'T come to terms with the rationality of the event, when presented evidence, then that would prove a preference for a state of irrationality.
What? I think you have rationality and it's antonym confused.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: Sclorch]
    #1635441 - 06/15/03 04:13 PM (21 years, 6 days ago)

The skeptic, upon proof, becomes no longer skeptic. The world of the skeptic then becomes a world of limited rationale, if not irrational.

" are you saying that doing science is easy or that science makes doing things easy?"-

No, I'm saying that manifestation is an effort of will.

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: castaway]
    #1636264 - 06/15/03 11:39 PM (21 years, 6 days ago)

The skeptic, upon proof, becomes no longer skeptic. The world of the skeptic then becomes a world of limited rationale, if not irrational.
A skeptical person (not necessarily a skeptic), when given proof is satisfied until that proof is invalidated (by whatever means), BUT it is not necessarily so that this person is now no longer skeptical (even of the "proof").


Sclorch: ..are you saying that doing science is easy or that science makes doing things easy?
No, I'm saying that manifestation is an effort of will.
This could easily be tested.
Are you willing to gamble that you're right?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: Sclorch]
    #1636787 - 06/16/03 06:30 AM (21 years, 6 days ago)

The question is:...Do you WANT it.

Because it aint going to happen if you don't.

If Swami WANTS proof he will get it.

If Swami WANTS to hold on to his safe little world then that is his reality.

But Swami has to do the work, no one can do it for him.

And Swami is the best judge if he tried or not.

Swami KNOWS what he wants.

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Offlinesolidox
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: castaway]
    #1636837 - 06/16/03 06:51 AM (21 years, 6 days ago)

> WTF does that tell us?
It tells us that you should use your brain and come to the conclusion that if you folow his techings, maybe you will survive, maybe not.

Same for if you don't follow his teachings.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: castaway]
    #1636922 - 06/16/03 07:52 AM (21 years, 6 days ago)

The question is:...Do you WANT it.
That is a statement, not a question.

Because it aint going to happen if you don't.
Lots of things happen that people do not want. Lots of people want things that never get them. Your statment is invalid.

* many personalizations deleted*
We are supposed to discuss topics, not individuals. This is Shroomery policy. Try again.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinesomebodyelse
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: Swami]
    #1637121 - 06/16/03 10:29 AM (21 years, 5 days ago)

Swami, how about this:

It is statistically more likely that you will attain a positive goal if you, as the first step in a process which leads towards that goal, decide that you want it, and will work towards it.

Equally, it is statistically more likely that you will fail to reach a positive goal if you have not made the decision that you would like to attain the goal, and thus put in a half hearted (or lesser) effort towards reaching the goal.

And of course, it goes without saying that
a) Bad shit happens
and
b) Good shit happens

But we are talking about, in the two statistical cases above, changes which you deliberately decide upon and work towards.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1637146 - 06/16/03 10:45 AM (21 years, 5 days ago)

I agree totally, but by definition, a miracle is something that defies known natural laws; not an end-product of goal-setting, effort and determination.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: Swami]
    #1637171 - 06/16/03 11:00 AM (21 years, 5 days ago)

Me no understand compound sentences... can you cut it back a bit?


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: Sclorch]
    #1637174 - 06/16/03 11:02 AM (21 years, 5 days ago)

Hey, how's my brain-dead buddy this morning? Too much Zen alcohol last night?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: Swami]
    #1637177 - 06/16/03 11:05 AM (21 years, 5 days ago)

God damned Belgian Ales....

Zen alcohol... LOL...ow, laughing hurts.



(actually, Sclorch doesn't get hangovers very often. :wink:


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: Sclorch]
    #1637188 - 06/16/03 11:08 AM (21 years, 5 days ago)

And who said I wasn't psychic? (Damned skeptics!) Don't tell them the lingerie story or I will be hounded forever...


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: solidox]
    #1638467 - 06/16/03 09:06 PM (21 years, 5 days ago)

Solidox: "> WTF does that tell us?
It tells us that you should use your brain and come to the conclusion that if you folow his techings, maybe you will survive, maybe not. Same for if you don't follow his teachings."-

Could you elucidate?

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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: Swami]
    #1638506 - 06/16/03 09:21 PM (21 years, 5 days ago)


Swami:"by definition, a miracle is something that defies known natural laws; not an end-product of goal-setting, effort and determination."

mir?a?cle ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mr-kl)
n.
An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God: ?Miracles are spontaneous, they cannot be summoned, but come of themselves?
-------------------------------------

Luke 17:6
He replied, "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,'
--------------------------------------

I may not have as much as a mustard seed but I'd think that the measure could be gathered within a group of sincere intent. I'd like to attempt the experiment but it would require a bit of organizing.
Would faith-healing in a controled setting be within your parameters?

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: castaway]
    #1638786 - 06/17/03 01:38 AM (21 years, 5 days ago)

Would faith-healing in a controled setting be within your parameters?

Such a test would have several requirements:

1. A large enough sample size to rule out statistical anomoly.

2. All results must be published. (Sounds obvious, but many such tests are flawed by ONLY presenting positive results and not negative results!)

3. The type of illness and subsequent healing must be medically documented before and after.

4. The affliction MUST be specific and the results must be objective; not "Hey, I felt bad, now I feel better!"

5. Process must be monitored by both believers & skeptics.

And probably more. I would be interested in hearing your specific proposal.

An imperfect and uncontrolled test on shroomery members would be fine as a first pass to see if seemingly positive results warranted further investigation, but the results would NOT be accepted as any sort of evidence of faith-healing until a controlled test was done.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineKenny Bus
The enlightend

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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: castaway]
    #1639229 - 06/17/03 08:36 AM (21 years, 5 days ago)

if everyone followed his teachings and survived it would no longer be a maricle


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KB

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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: Swami]
    #1639282 - 06/17/03 09:11 AM (21 years, 5 days ago)

Re: Swami

I'm working on it

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Offlinecastaway
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Re: * many personalizations deleted* [Re: Swami]
    #2072809 - 11/05/03 10:02 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

"* many personalizations deleted*
We are supposed to discuss topics, not individuals. This is Shroomery policy. Try again."

"If Swami WANTS to hold on to his safe little world then that is his reality."-

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be be-littleing...but "safe" in being known with not much chance of major surprises, and "little" in being contained by a known universe, leaving no room for another.


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Specific Proposal [Re: Swami]
    #2076047 - 11/06/03 02:43 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Here's the deal:

Randi chooses two cases for his own verification,
you get two for yours, and I get four (charity beginning at home 'n all)

I don't know if there will ever be another occurrence, so we're dealing with the good-faith, honesty and sense of fair-play of all concerned.

Should everything work out to everyone's satisfaction, then I would propose the following:
The principle amount to be held by the Randi - MacClaine - & Shroomery Foundation for Spiritual Studies, with yourself as executive director, and the interest to be used to fund various projects.

EVERYONE WHO REGISTERS before 6am Eastern, Saturday nov 8 '03, on the Registery thread in the Spirituality section of:

http://www.shirleymaclaine.com/encounterboard/freethreads.pl

(of which I am one) to share equally in the dispersal of this years interest of the principal and will receive a frameable certificate of participation with raised stamp of authenticity ( with other anti-forgery devices to be worked out by yourself)

ps: I'll ask the management of Shirleymaclaine.com to waive the registration fee requirement ( in the Spirit of things) but I can't promise they will.

-------------------------------------------------
Consider the future to be an array of possibilities...of which those of us participating in Harmonic Concordance have our prefference...with others maybe intent on some other prefference.

Which possibility of a future would YOU prefer to share this time next week?

all I'm asking for is your help

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Specific Proposal [Re: castaway]
    #2076154 - 11/06/03 04:32 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Why is this thread dug up and continuing? :frown: Let's let it die, in tribute to our lost Swami.... :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: Swami]
    #2084696 - 11/08/03 05:28 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)



In the interest of symbolism, I would touch the lips of those we are concerned about with a finger dipped in water.
Any source is ok but natural is preferable I think,...I have found the wide-mouth bottles like Gatorade and Pepsi to make fine collection vessels for natural water.

My preference is that the figure 2 would be variable, and that we will be free to follow our conscience with experimentation.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: castaway]
    #2084716 - 11/08/03 05:36 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

What is this thread doing on the surface again? Let it die.. let it die... let it fucking die....
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: Swami]
    #2084956 - 11/08/03 07:24 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

The best I got was a 'Smiley-Face'...No thunder-claps...But then...If we go by Shirley-time...8:30pm Eastern doesn't actualy happen untill it's equivolent at 12pm Eastern?...@ 5:30 am your time...if I'm not mistaken?

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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: castaway]
    #2085964 - 11/09/03 04:03 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Re: "Variable"...

...'Arbitrary' was the word I was looking for

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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Making Miracles Happen [Re: castaway]
    #2113291 - 11/16/03 09:42 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

lolololololololololol,


OH my,

Why are all of you so afraid of "death" for. Do you not realize that this world or existence is "hell". We are at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to "Perfect" worlds. What im saying is that I can't wait until it's time for me to leave this existence and go to my next home. Apparently, none of yall have "died" yet. may I suggest the next time you trip to increase your dose Tenfold. And also, If you are tripping just to drink longer at the bar or for only euphoric reasons then you will learn nothing from your trip. Except, how pretty the colors are.

Medicinbag

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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Medicinbag [Re: medicinebag]
    #2113485 - 11/16/03 10:13 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

I percieve death to be isolation, either by popular demand or self-induced.

I don't percieve this world to be the bottom of the barrell.

Indifference is equivalent to self-negation or self-isolation imo.

You can laugh, and ridicule, and call us afraid, and give un-realistic advice as to doses, but your demeanor only impresses me with the feeling that you have absolutely no idea about what you are talking about.

But hang around anyway, maybe I'll learn something from you.

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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Medicinbag [Re: castaway]
    #2113657 - 11/16/03 10:52 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

My most sincere apologies if that last post offended you, castaway or anyones else for that matter. Self isolation if you chose will be available for you when your time or anyone elses time comes. Yes I do believe I know exactly what I am talking about when I state that one should try to raise their doses higher. This is not unrealistic at all. You have to push the envelope to see whats out there. A couple of grams on the weekend with friends will not show you anything important. Most are scared of the unknown. To find the unknown one has to be strong and not afraid to go farther each time they leave their "house". To leave your body and "See" what else is out there takes a very high dose and a strong will to return. Most will never try this suggestion out of fear of "dying". There is nothing to fear. You just move from one "home" to another. If you,castaway, choose isolation then that will be your choice. And I do belive this existence is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to the infinate other existences I have witnessed whilst out of my body via a large dose of psilocybin.

Medicinebag

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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Medicinbag [Re: medicinebag]
    #2114025 - 11/17/03 12:28 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

" Is the dreamer dreaming the dream? or the dream the dreamer."

"And I do belive this existence is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to the infinate other existences I have witnessed whilst out of my body via a large dose of psilocybin."-

I don't think it is possible to witness infinity in the past tense...and perhaps the infinate other existences you witnessed were no more than dreams...self-delusion...escapism.

I think the attainable benefits of any spiritual quest, with or without entheogens, will effect our PRESENT existence in a positive way.

Improving our state of Happiness in the Present, from moment to moment, is the goal I think... not putting Happiness off as something over the rainbow, in a future, a distant galaxy, or something only to be found after we are departed.

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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Medicinbag [Re: castaway]
    #2114385 - 11/17/03 02:09 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Castaway,

What? Do you use the medicine at all? Some abuse the medicine when partying. They never see anything of value. I know the difference between a halucination of no value and an Insight into the truth. You do not want to know the truth as of yet. This is only a speculation. Take it anyway you choose. I witnessed what I witnessed. Past,present and future. I don't wish to get into a debate over grammar. Or over what I witnessed. It was revealed to me as a reward for work accomplished. Maybe one day if you show the medicine the upmost respect you too will be rewarded with a vision of truth. Peace.

Medicinebag

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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Medicinbag [Re: medicinebag]
    #2114432 - 11/17/03 02:19 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

I am throughly happy in this state or any other state I happen to be in. One time I was kinda lonely in Texas but I met someone so I was't lonely anymore.LOL.

I never meant to suggest that my thrill about leaving this existence for a more perfect one meant that I was unhappy. I meant that this existence is "hell" if such a place exists. Try to prove to me otherwise that we are not living in hell and I will show you how we are. This world is the worst it gets when it comes to planes of our existence.

Medicinebag

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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Medicinbag [Re: medicinebag]
    #2114836 - 11/17/03 03:55 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

From my own experience...from my perspective...I would imagine life as a worm, or minnow to be worse...or are we just categorizing hell.

Rather than prove our existence in hell or it's equivalent, perhaps you could appraise me of the qualities that make up the superiority of those infinite other places you claim to be familiar with

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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Medicinbag [Re: castaway]
    #2116017 - 11/17/03 11:00 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Instead, Castaway, why don't you go there yourself and see what I have seen. Then you would not ask such mundane question. I could explain away and it would not matter. Until you witness such things you can not understand them through language. Later.

And if you feel that your life is that of a worm of minnow, I wish the best for you when your time comes. Hopefully, you won't be reincarnated as a fish. LOL>

Reincarnation is what happens when you "go to hell" for living a life of negative Karma. When you live a positive life then you can go on to the next levels.

Medicinebag

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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Medicinbag [Re: medicinebag]
    #2116323 - 11/17/03 12:05 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I'm sorry but in my opinion you're making all kind of claims without even trying to back them up with any substatiative arguments at all...except to take 10 times a dose, which is unrealistic from my point of view, but then my experience IS very limited, and they DO say 'anything is possible...BUT...there's no-way I'm taking 50 grams.

The weather is gorgeous here in central fla; Howz it in your neck of the woods?

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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Registered: 11/15/03
Posts: 344
Loc: The land of The People
Re: Medicinbag [Re: castaway]
    #2117204 - 11/17/03 03:38 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Castataway,

So far my short experience here at the Shroomery has been negative.

I keep wondering why there are so many people on this site and so far almost everyone that has replied to any my posts appear to me as if they don't really understand what tripping is all about. Knowledge.

I did not come here to argue I came here to discuss what I have seen with others. Apparently, this site is made up of SKEPTICS> How can a site devoted to mushrooms have so many skeptics to other peoples visions while communing with the medicine? Do you debunk your own visions? If so then stop tripping right now. The medicine has nothing to offer to a skeptic.
Here is another example. I was reading a post about a father who wanted to have a coming of age ritual for his daughter. I feel the same way. He was totally ridiculed for even suggestion the thought of this act. As if he was some kind of crazy cult member. I don't know how long I will remain here. It kinda feels like OVERGROW. with all of the flaming and childish behavior.

So far I have only seen people try to DEBUNK any ones posts that have to do with the supernatural. Swami for example. His whole thread on Why did shamanism fail is a prime example. My suggestions of upping the dosage might open some of their eyes to the truth. IF you have already been taking five grams at a time, then whats the problem? Double the dose then the first time the double it the next time. Don't be afraid. Psilocybin can not kill you physically. Psychologically Psilocybin will kill you, your ego or personality. Have you shown the medicine proper respect or did you just hang out in your house and watch a movie waiting for something special to happen? Tripping is real. It is not some fake hallucination. For some they don't understand what they see because they did not approach the medicine with respect. Therefore, there trips are worhtless.

Rainy.

Medicinebag

Edited by medicinebag (11/17/03 03:42 PM)

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Offlinecastaway
Isanybodyreallyhome?
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Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 553
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: Medicinbag [Re: medicinebag]
    #2117467 - 11/17/03 04:47 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I've done mushrooms like about 3 times, and just colors no hallucinations,

Yeah I agree it could kill you psychologicaly that's why I respect it.

I think whatever spiritual growth I may have acquired is due in most part to the altered states provided by entheogens, from which vantage I could question "normal" reality...and I agree that sacraments need to be handled with respect.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Medicinbag [Re: medicinebag]
    #2117940 - 11/17/03 06:30 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

So far my short experience here at the Shroomery has been negative.
Perception is in the eye of the beholder. Negative people see negative things.

I keep wondering why there are so many people on this site...
It is a cool place to hang out.

... and so far almost everyone that has replied to any my posts appear to me as if they don't really understand what tripping is all about.
Yup! All 3,000 of us (except you) are ignorant.

I did not come here to argue I came here to discuss what I have seen with others.
No, just to make arrogant proclamations of superiority.

Apparently, this site is made up of SKEPTICS>
This site is made of of all different kinds of people with various mindsets and experiences.

How can a site devoted to mushrooms have so many skeptics to other peoples visions while communing with the medicine?
I would bet that not one member doubts that you have had visions while tripping.

Do you debunk your own visions?
What does that mean?

If so then stop tripping right now.
Because you have commanded it?

The medicine has nothing to offer to a skeptic.
You have no idea what it offers to others.

Here is another example.
Of what? What was the first example?

I don't know how long I will remain here.
So everyone else here should change to accomodate you?

It kinda feels like OVERGROW. with all of the flaming and childish behavior.
*Holds up mirror*

So far I have only seen people try to DEBUNK any ones posts that have to do with the supernatural.
There is no "try"; only "do".

Swami for example. His whole thread on Why did shamanism fail is a prime example.
There was no debunking. It is called history. Shamanic societies have been nearly wiped out in the Americas. That does not sound like success no matter how you spin it.

My suggestions of upping the dosage might open some of their eyes to the truth.
THE TRUTH? Or your truth?

Psilocybin can not kill you physically.
False.

Psilocybin will kill you, your ego or personality.
Uh huh. Then we can making sweeping statements of what thousands of other people should and should not do. There is no Ego in that, now is there?

For some they don't understand what they see because they did not approach the medicine with respect. Therefore, there trips are worhtless.
I do not tip toe up to the "medicine", nor do I sing it's praises and lay down offerings to a chemical; yet my trips are far from worthless.

If I double my dosage can I learn to be as judgemental as you?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Posts: 344
Loc: The land of The People
Re: Medicinbag [Re: Swami]
    #2119394 - 11/18/03 09:32 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

As I said before Swami.

I don't play the game where I put down what you said in BOLD and answer with some little psudo-funny remark. Sorry. I'm not here to play the "argue" game with you. Or any games for that matter. I am here because I wanted to talk with others about what they have seen while out of their bodies. Albeit, I haven't tried hard enough to find them. And honestly when I read your posts, my ego surfaced. It will take at least two sessions to resolve that one with the medicine.

Here is what I "see". At one time you thought the medicine could help you. Then nothing magical happened when you called the medicine out. So you gave up. Now you like to debunk anything spiritual or supernatural about the medicine. I felt that way once as well. At one time I called the medicine out like that too. And of course nothing special happened. You have to treat the medicine like a wild animal. You can't just walk up to a wild animal and expect it to play with you like a dog. No, the medicne is a wolf. And to play with the wolf takes years and years before the wolf gets to know YOU personally before he will let you pet him.
Maybe if you wouldn't have "called' the medicine out like that and respected it for the power it is, something magical and special might have happened. No. instead. you like to Rag the medicine. Why are posting in a forum on spirituality and philosophy at a mushroom site when its obvious that you only belive in what a test tube can produce. The medicine will not Perform for you like a dog with a frisbe. No you must follow the medicine back to his lair for the true lessons. May you see the truth one day.

Medicinebag

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Medicinbag [Re: medicinebag]
    #2119426 - 11/18/03 10:06 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

And honestly when I read your posts, my ego surfaced.
Your ego has always been there, you have just denied it and I pointed it out. This is called "self-delusion" and you would do well to drop it before you make claims of superior spirituality.

Here is what I "see". At one time you thought the medicine could help you. Then nothing magical happened when you called the medicine out. So you gave up.
Wrong. Your powers of analysis or "seeing" are quite weak. Perhaps time to double the dosage.

Now you like to debunk anything spiritual or supernatural about the medicine. I felt that way once as well. At one time I called the medicine out like that too. And of course nothing special happened.
Never said nothing special happens. Misquoting is a cheap way to attempt to make a point.

You can't just walk up to a wild animal and expect it to play with you like a dog. No, the medicne is a wolf. And to play with the wolf takes years and years before the wolf gets to know YOU personally before he will let you pet him.
My fungi let me pet them right away.

No. instead. you like to Rag the medicine.
I like to rag on silly posts. I never rag on my mushies.

Why are posting in a forum on spirituality and philosophy at a mushroom site when its obvious that you only belive in what a test tube can produce.
(Is this a question?) We are back to the non-existent test tube yet again?

May you see the truth one day.
My truth, the truth or your truth?



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Registered: 11/15/03
Posts: 344
Loc: The land of The People
Re: Medicinbag [Re: Swami]
    #2120036 - 11/18/03 01:53 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Everyone of those "arguments" were weak.

All you do is cut up my quotes and you don't answer the issues. You just joke about it all and try to avoid everything else. I will not answer anymore of your posts as long as you don't answer mine. It seems we are opposites. Most of your "answers" to my argument are jokes. Goodday.
Medicinebag

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