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OfflineNeoSporen
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Panaeolus olivaceus. * 2
    #16341578 - 06/06/12 04:56 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Found some of these guys today while out checking up on my ovoids. They are always close to the sidewalk, and almost never in the middle of a yard or field. Close to water sources (sprinklers) and have that olive color to them. Will be posting some microscopy later on. THIS IS NOT THE SAME COLLECTION AS THE OTHER THREAD I POSTED!! Enjoy the pictures:cheers:




Panaeolina foenisecii for comparison:

Next to a foe for comparison:


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Having lived through an existence close to nature, one accepts the small and simple things as most important in life. Sun, wind, rain and snow. The sounds birds make, smells of fresh wild flowers. Love of all kinds, from friends and family, thy self and our neighbors. Beautiful sunrises to the darkest clouds dancing above in the sky. To forgive, learn, share and express. This is the only thing a man such as myself can ask for. What comes as the result is nothing short of the core of human existence, to truly live free in body and mind.


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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus. [Re: NeoSporen]
    #16341590 - 06/06/12 04:58 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Fantastic! :murray:


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AMU Q&A


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OfflineNeoSporen
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus. [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #16341605 - 06/06/12 05:01 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks man:fonz: Lots of prints coming:yesnod: Threw a few stems into the fridge to try and coax out some blue. We will see what happens. The housing development I found them in was LOADED!! Ran out of room since I forgot some tubs to gather things, so more will be harvested later on. Probably more pics, along with the microscopy.


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Having lived through an existence close to nature, one accepts the small and simple things as most important in life. Sun, wind, rain and snow. The sounds birds make, smells of fresh wild flowers. Love of all kinds, from friends and family, thy self and our neighbors. Beautiful sunrises to the darkest clouds dancing above in the sky. To forgive, learn, share and express. This is the only thing a man such as myself can ask for. What comes as the result is nothing short of the core of human existence, to truly live free in body and mind.


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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus. [Re: NeoSporen] * 1
    #16341632 - 06/06/12 05:05 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

How do you know this is P. olivaceus without microscopy?  Without confirming that it has slightly roughened spores, that seems like guesswork. :shrug:


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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus. [Re: NeoSporen]
    #16341642 - 06/06/12 05:07 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

fucking rights man!! nice find! :congrats:


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus. [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #16341699 - 06/06/12 05:17 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Byrain said:
How do you know this is P. olivaceus without microscopy?  Without confirming that it has slightly roughened spores, that seems like guesswork. :shrug:





:whathesaid:


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OfflineNeoSporen
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus. [Re: Byrain]
    #16341705 - 06/06/12 05:18 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Byrain said:
How do you know this is P. olivaceus without microscopy?  Without confirming that it has slightly roughened spores, that seems like guesswork. :shrug:





With those colors and the habitat, what else would it be? Never seen any other panaeolus species with that cap color. Plus, I found that species, and confirmed it with microscopy last season, and these were growing in the exact same housing development. Seems like it's not just guess work. Some were even growing in the same yards as last fall:shrug:


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Having lived through an existence close to nature, one accepts the small and simple things as most important in life. Sun, wind, rain and snow. The sounds birds make, smells of fresh wild flowers. Love of all kinds, from friends and family, thy self and our neighbors. Beautiful sunrises to the darkest clouds dancing above in the sky. To forgive, learn, share and express. This is the only thing a man such as myself can ask for. What comes as the result is nothing short of the core of human existence, to truly live free in body and mind.


Edited by NeoSporen (06/06/12 05:19 PM)


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OfflineNeoSporen
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus. [Re: NeoSporen]
    #16341807 - 06/06/12 05:40 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Will go get more in a little while. Just a quick question tho, since I hadn't noticed the change. Are Panaeolus olivaceus and Panaeolus castaneifolius the same thing now?


These are the best pics I could get with just a quick look. I really hate the lighting features with the AmScope software. It's so hard to get good shots, but looking through the eyepiece, it's completely fine and very detailed. Lighting never cooperates, especially with oil immersion. Don't wanna get my box down from the garage just to switch eyepieces, so the images are at 2,000X:shrug: I'll post more a bit later,




Looks pretty similar to this one, which used to be Panaeolus olivaceus. This is where my confusion comes into play.  http://mushroomobserver.org/8203


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Having lived through an existence close to nature, one accepts the small and simple things as most important in life. Sun, wind, rain and snow. The sounds birds make, smells of fresh wild flowers. Love of all kinds, from friends and family, thy self and our neighbors. Beautiful sunrises to the darkest clouds dancing above in the sky. To forgive, learn, share and express. This is the only thing a man such as myself can ask for. What comes as the result is nothing short of the core of human existence, to truly live free in body and mind.


Edited by NeoSporen (06/06/12 05:41 PM)


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus. [Re: NeoSporen]
    #16341824 - 06/06/12 05:43 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

I think I can see fine ornamentation on the spores.

Panaeolus olivaceus spores are always difficult to scope, you need to get the kohler illumination just right to see the ornamentation.

I believe that it is possible to ID this species macroscopically.


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OfflineNeoSporen
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #16341850 - 06/06/12 05:45 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

I know, it's really getting on my nerves lately. I'll try to post pics taken with my digital camera through the eyepiece later on. I can see it much better that way, and very clear. These pictures, meh, not the greatest:thumbdown:


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Having lived through an existence close to nature, one accepts the small and simple things as most important in life. Sun, wind, rain and snow. The sounds birds make, smells of fresh wild flowers. Love of all kinds, from friends and family, thy self and our neighbors. Beautiful sunrises to the darkest clouds dancing above in the sky. To forgive, learn, share and express. This is the only thing a man such as myself can ask for. What comes as the result is nothing short of the core of human existence, to truly live free in body and mind.


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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #16341893 - 06/06/12 05:51 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Would you say those spores are slightly roughened or smooth?  I can't tell through the pictures, its something that is easier to see in person anyways.  Assuming they are slightly roughened, the only choices I know of are P. olivaceus and P. africanus, the latter is said to need an electron microscope to see the ornamention and is African with sulphidia on dung.

And there is always the possibility of more then 1 species hiding under the P. olivaceus name, it would be interesting to see a thorough microscopic examination.  A cool feature you could check for is greenish immature spores in H2O.

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
I believe that it is possible to ID this species macroscopically.




Probably, its just a matter of getting used to its subtle features.  Given its rarity, that may be difficult considering other the species in Gerhardt's subgenus Panaeolus, section Laevispora.


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OfflineNeoSporen
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus. [Re: Byrain]
    #16341927 - 06/06/12 05:58 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

I find they pretty often out here. They always have this weird greenish tint to the caps, and very white pruinose stipes. I will post up a more in depth microscopy later on. They did have greenish colored spores when looking at them through my eyepiece. Was trying to get that feature on one of those pics, but it wasn't happening for some reason.


--------------------
Having lived through an existence close to nature, one accepts the small and simple things as most important in life. Sun, wind, rain and snow. The sounds birds make, smells of fresh wild flowers. Love of all kinds, from friends and family, thy self and our neighbors. Beautiful sunrises to the darkest clouds dancing above in the sky. To forgive, learn, share and express. This is the only thing a man such as myself can ask for. What comes as the result is nothing short of the core of human existence, to truly live free in body and mind.


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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus. [Re: NeoSporen]
    #16342667 - 06/06/12 08:41 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

The Panaeolus pictured above have some pretty pronounced veining on the pileus! I've read that this is a common macro feature on most panaeolus, But have only observed it(here and mo, no irl) on P. semiovatus. Is veining one of those features that will vary dramatically collection to collection? Or is it consistent and useful for species identification?


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OfflineNeoSporen
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus. [Re: Gravija]
    #16343016 - 06/06/12 09:47 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

This is one of the first times I have noticed that characteristic on a Panaeolus, at least in my observations. Based on what I saw just today, it varies a lot from spot to spot. Even some growing about 10' from the one with veins were totally different looking. I've noticed the best way to separate this species from other Panaeolus is the slightly olive green tint in the cap, sometimes they have a striated cap, and the stem is pruinose from the cap to the stem butt. Lower parts of the stem also turn a slight purple color, instead of the usual read with cinctulus.


Will be uploading some more pics in a little bit, and microscopy will come later on tonight. up to 60 prints already:thumbup: Some heavy depositors.


--------------------
Having lived through an existence close to nature, one accepts the small and simple things as most important in life. Sun, wind, rain and snow. The sounds birds make, smells of fresh wild flowers. Love of all kinds, from friends and family, thy self and our neighbors. Beautiful sunrises to the darkest clouds dancing above in the sky. To forgive, learn, share and express. This is the only thing a man such as myself can ask for. What comes as the result is nothing short of the core of human existence, to truly live free in body and mind.


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Invisiblebloodworm
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus. [Re: NeoSporen]
    #16343082 - 06/06/12 10:00 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bfogg8706 said:
Will be uploading some more pics in a little bit, and microscopy will come later on tonight. up to 60 prints already:thumbup: Some heavy depositors.




:popcorn:

:sunny:

:aliendance:
peace and love
bloodworm


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InvisibleGravija
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus. [Re: bloodworm]
    #16343156 - 06/06/12 10:15 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Hell yess! You don't fogg around, do you:wink:

So, about those veins... Considering that they are only sometimes present, is it safe to assume that they are composed of inflated cells? There must be an environmental factor of some sort.

Can somebody please point me toward the authoritative Panaeolus monograph?


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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus. [Re: Gravija]
    #16343279 - 06/06/12 10:37 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

this guy is totally fucking rad



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InvisibleGravija
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus. [Re: doctorghosty]
    #16343351 - 06/06/12 10:52 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Is there an English translation of Gerhardt's monograph?


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OfflineNeoSporen
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus. [Re: Gravija]
    #16343646 - 06/06/12 11:43 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

You can copy the text and put it through google translate:shrug:


A few more pictures. I'm gonna hold off on the microscopy till about 11:00. I already picked the cap I'm gonna take sections from, just wanna get one more print from it before the chop:yesnod:


A few more foes for comparison: 


The goods:bliss:


--------------------
Having lived through an existence close to nature, one accepts the small and simple things as most important in life. Sun, wind, rain and snow. The sounds birds make, smells of fresh wild flowers. Love of all kinds, from friends and family, thy self and our neighbors. Beautiful sunrises to the darkest clouds dancing above in the sky. To forgive, learn, share and express. This is the only thing a man such as myself can ask for. What comes as the result is nothing short of the core of human existence, to truly live free in body and mind.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus. [Re: Gravija]
    #16343899 - 06/07/12 12:44 AM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Gravija said:
Is there an English translation of Gerhardt's monograph?




For the Copelandia section, yes.  For the Panaeolus section, no.  The keys are in English, and I find if I read the German descriptions I can understand them even though I don't know German.


If anyone needs the literature, PM me.


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