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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 296
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Bill of Rights is Dead
    #1632984 - 06/14/03 01:06 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

This is a post from Plastic.Com - I like it so much that I'll c&p it here:


The Fourth Amendment is a dead letter, killed step by step. The Fourth Amendment somehow didn't apply to the IRS, so the IRS didn't need a warrant to seize a person's "papers and effects"; the Supremes said that all the IRS needed was "healthy curiosity." Then it was decided that the Fourth Amendment didn't apply to students: the Supremes said the schools owned all lockers and could authorize searches whenever they liked. Then the Fourth Amendment ceased to be meaningful when a police officer interacted with a member of the public: if a person refused to "consent" to a search, the police could use that as "probable cause" to arrest someone and then search him/her and the Supremes thought that was perfectly okay. Now the Fourth Amendment no longer applies at airports: you might be a terrorist, so bend over, Grandma.

The Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination is a dead letter, killed step-by-step. (It was pronounced dead years ago by no less a personage than former Chief Justice Warren Berger, who could see the net effect of various Supreme Court rulings.) If you fail to acknowledge your income from illicit activities like drug dealing, you are guilty of tax fraud, but if you claim that income, the information on your tax return can be used against you because you are deemed to have volunteered the information. (And if you claim the Fifth Amendment on a tax return, you are deemed to have filed a "frivolous tax return," you are fined $500, and you are targeted for prosecution. The Star Chamber is back, and we call it "income taxation."

The Seventh Amendment is dead, killed all at once. You have a $5,000 claim against the federal government? Sorry, you can't get into court with it; not into federal court, which has a $10,000 jurisdictional minimum, and not into State court, since the feds can claim "sovereign immunity." The federal government is our King, don't you know?

The Ninth Amendment has been dead for decades, except for abortion. Rights that were intended to be protected by the Ninth Amendment, like the all-important right to privacy, were never given the Ninth Amendment protection they were intended by our Founding Fathers to have.

The Eighth Amendment protection against cruel and unusual punishment is a complete joke, as the Supremes indulge in judicial fiction to overlook the well-known fact that sodomy has become normal in state prisons across America, and as traffic offenders are put in the same facilities, and occasionally the same cells, as murderers and other violent criminals.

Even the Thirteenth Amendment has been whittled away as prisons use what amounts to slave labor (as a "punishment" for crime), as most Americans are forced to spend hours filling out tax returns (or pay others to do it for them) without compensation, and as young people are forced to register for a draft which once impressed millions of young Americans into minimally-compensated service to their country.

"Oh, but we still have the First Amendment! You can say ANYTHING YOU WANT in America!" Yeah, right. Unless you advocate decriminalizing marijuana, or unless you advocated communism in the 1940s and 1950s, or unless you were a Libertarian activist in Alaska or Montana during the 1980s, or unless you can't afford to operate your own television network or own your own radio station or newspaper.

The Patriot Act and the Amber Alert Act are just the latest nails in the coffin of American liberty. The old Soviet Constitution guaranteed almost all the of the same rights the U.S. Constitution does, those guarantees just didn't mean anything. And now, the guarantees in the U.S. Constitution don't mean anything either, they are just so much meaningless ink on paper. The federal government can do whatever it wants to whomever it pleases. Can anyone really be surprised that these powers are now being used to suppress political speech that doesn't fit neatly into the Republicrat duopoly?

The "corporate state" was invented by Mussolini. It used to be called "fascism." But to even remind people of that fact today is to invoke Godwin's Law or to risk ridicule and censure. And with 10% of American professions subject to licensure, and with licensing authorities openly punishing politically-incorrect individuals with the withdrawal of their right to work, the forms of censure that are available to authorities carry quite a bite.

Once upon a time, Americans really believed that once the Soviet threat was defeated, the "national security state" would end, and Americans would get their freedoms back. It has become all too clear that the folks who run our government have no intention of ever restoring American freedom, and will use any excuse to continue the assault on the few rights we have left. But don't say anything about it, except anonymously on the Internet: the government doesn't take kindly to criticism.


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Anonymous

Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1632998 - 06/14/03 01:20 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

The scary thing is that it is still going to get worse. Ashcroft (neo-Hitler) thinks that the patriot act wasn't enough and he's going to pass more anti-terrorism (anti-liberty) legislation.


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: ]
    #1634184 - 06/15/03 01:34 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

My dad was telling me to go back to Russia after I graduate. He said things are beginning to look bright there. I donno if it's true or not.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Anonymous

Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: downforpot]
    #1634892 - 06/15/03 12:57 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

You know what's sad? I talk to people and tell them how things are getting worse and all they say is something like "I don't care, as long as I got a job and a place to stay" or something like that. People are hopeless.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: downforpot]
    #1637875 - 06/16/03 06:04 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

My dad was telling me to go back to Russia after I graduate. He said things are beginning to look bright there. I donno if it's true or not.




Your dad is wise...


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1638436 - 06/16/03 10:55 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Is that sarcasm or?


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: downforpot]
    #1639541 - 06/17/03 01:58 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

No,! get the fuck outa there....


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 296
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1639549 - 06/17/03 02:02 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Where does he/you live?


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1639581 - 06/17/03 02:17 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I figure he's in america originally from russia?

Im from canada. I won't go to america for ANY reason now, and im saying how leaving america is a good idea...


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1639852 - 06/17/03 04:20 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Hm I've been thinking about moving north to BC....

You really think Russia is better than the US? Seems like they have it worse over there.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1639880 - 06/17/03 04:34 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Bc is pretty dang good man. The taxes are high, icbc sucks, our provincial government is retarded, alcohal is too expensive, taxes are high, but LOTS of BUD and you can buy nice land in the interior for relatively cheap. Go north or east...try and stay away from vancouver...unless city life is your thing. Let me know if you ever do end up coming...

As for russia, i honestly know next to nothing about it.....let alone what its like to live there. Its just i feel if i lived in the US, i would have moved by now, and for those who stay and use pot and such, i just cant see your resoning.....sure its your home, but thats no consolation if your in jail. Lifes a trip, its much more important to enjoy the path you tred than where it leads...


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1640557 - 06/17/03 09:46 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

The only things you gotta worry about in Russia is crazy ass muslims, mafia, and bums trying to mug you. If you have a steady job then you will be alright.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: downforpot]
    #1640848 - 06/17/03 11:38 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

What are we talking for BC land in the interior? I was searching at the weekend and found that in New Mexico you can get 10 acres for about $10000 USD.

I figure 10 acres is just about right - could grow enough food to survive when the oil economy explodes.


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1641081 - 06/18/03 01:06 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Lets not forget my favorite ignored part of the 5th ammendment.
"nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Can we say welfare and social security anyone? Not to mention the vast list of social "services" that we have.

Let us not also overlook the fact that many of these rights that are violated are violated as a means to take our property. Taxation is the real evil here. We should have never allowed a federal income tax.

I think that one of the main things that is destroying our rights is our gradual shifting towards democracy as a means of government. The many have found that they can vote to take the property (and rights) of the few. They are using the government to rob others. It is sickening.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


Edited by z@z.com (06/18/03 01:48 AM)


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: z@z.com]
    #1641307 - 06/18/03 03:01 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Taxation is the real evil here. We should have never allowed a federal income tax.


If you don't provide for the common defense, then wouldn't another country with a large military paid for by tax dollars just take over the United States and begin taxing it so their military remains mighty??? I'm not disagreeing with you yet, I simply want to hear your counter-argument.


--------------------


Edited by Cornholio (06/18/03 03:03 AM)


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: Cornholio]
    #1641316 - 06/18/03 03:06 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

We do not need a military the size of the one we have now to provide for defense. The only reason we need this size military is so we can be the world's policeman. This is not our job and we are doing a terrible job at it.

There are other means of income besides an income tax. Perhaps a sales tax or many other possible measures. The main reason I am against an income tax is because it is easy to abuse and easy for a population to overlook. Just imagine how you would feel if you paid a 30-40% sales tax. Most people would be outraged as thay would be forced to notice it every time they purchased something.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: z@z.com]
    #1641331 - 06/18/03 03:12 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

We do not need a military the size of the one we have now to provide for defense. The only reason we need this size military is so we can be the world's policeman. This is not our job and we are doing a terrible job at it.


I would certainly agree with that.
Quote:

There are other means of income besides an income tax. Perhaps a sales tax


Sounds reasonable.  Thanks for the response!  :laugh: 


--------------------


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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: z@z.com]
    #1642068 - 06/18/03 12:56 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Are you against providing basic welfare, or just outraged at the bloated beaurocracy that has grown up behind it?


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1643214 - 06/19/03 01:33 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I am against stealing from one person to pay another. So yes I am against all welfare unless paying for it is optional.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinesomebodyelse
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: z@z.com]
    #1643410 - 06/19/03 02:39 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I can't argue with that.

How do you transition from a welfare system to a non welfare based system?


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1644283 - 06/19/03 11:56 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

It would be pretty easy...except for the people who would now have to do something to get thier paycheck.


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1644327 - 06/19/03 12:15 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

somebodyelse said:
I can't argue with that.

How do you transition from a welfare system to a non welfare based system?



Let the freeloaders know the checks stop in 6 months.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1644397 - 06/19/03 12:39 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

somebodyelse said:
I can't argue with that.

How do you transition from a welfare system to a non welfare based system? 



Let the freeloaders know the checks stop in 6 months. 




And ignore the "im a victim" cries when the cold reality sets in, and they have done nothing to prepare themselves or thier families and are still unemployed.

I bet they feel it's thier right to get this handout by now. :mad:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1644445 - 06/19/03 12:52 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

And ignore the "im a victim" cries when the cold reality sets in, and they have done nothing to prepare themselves or thier families and are still unemployed.



Exactly.... now you're catching on!


Quote:

I bet they feel it's thier right to get this handout by now.


*snif* Stop, you're bringing a tear to my eyes.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1644455 - 06/19/03 12:55 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

:grin:  I've always felt this way about free handouts.  I would probably still donate money to them if given the chance but.....ah wait, who am i kidding, i'd keep it all for myself, family, and friends....which is technically the same thing its just people i know/ give a shit about.


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1644466 - 06/19/03 12:59 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Azmodeus said:
:grin:  I've always felt this way about free handouts.  I would probably still donate money to them if given the chance but.....ah wait, who am i kidding, i'd keep it all for myself, family, and friends....which is technically the same thing its just people i know/ give a shit about. 



I asked yesterday, now I'm asking again damn you!

Who are you, where's the real Azmodeus?

ANSWER ME!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

Registered: 06/12/03
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1644486 - 06/19/03 01:05 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Well that's a political non-starter. I can't argue with your principle re: taxes, but what about the people in areas with no employment opportunities? The millions of single moms who can't afford daycare, etc?

So far one thing I've noticed is that "starve the citizens" bills don't generally make headway (although look out for the nazi grover norquist to change that).


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1644491 - 06/19/03 01:07 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The millions of single moms who can't afford daycare, etc?




If they can't afford kids, they shouldn't have them.

As an alternative... they could always eat them.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1644561 - 06/19/03 01:28 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

The millions of single moms who can't afford daycare, etc?




If they can't afford kids, they shouldn't have them.

As an alternative... they could always eat them. 




Or give them up for adoption....
Or whore themselves! :grin:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1644568 - 06/19/03 01:29 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Now your speaking my language!
:grin:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Bill of Rights is Dead [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1644630 - 06/19/03 01:47 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Now your speaking my language!
:grin: 




Hey, it makes everyone happy.  the children get cared for.  the mom can support her responsibility, and all the fathers that left these women get to have some fun, while supporting thier families.....if indirectly.....


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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