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InvisibleEdame
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Harold Pinter blasts 'Nazi America'
    #1626625 - 06/11/03 04:56 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

From the Guardian. I might not agree with everything he says, but it still struck a chord with me.

Pinter blasts 'Nazi America' and 'deluded idiot' Blair

Angelique Chrisafis and Imogen Tilden
Wednesday June 11, 2003
The Guardian

The playwright Harold Pinter last night likened George W Bush's administration to Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany, saying the US was charging towards world domination while the American public and Britain's "mass-murdering" prime minister sat back and watched.

Pinter, 72, was at the National Theatre in London to read from War, a new collection of his anti-war poetry that had been published in the press in response to events in Iraq.

In conversation on stage with Michael Billington, the Guardian's theatre critic, Pinter said the US government was the most dangerous power that had ever existed.

The American detention centre in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where al-Qaida and Taliban suspects were being held, was a concentration camp.

The US population had to accept responsibility for allowing an unelected president to take power and the British were exhausted from protesting and being ignored by Tony Blair, a "deluded idiot" Pinter hoped would resign.

After a big operation for cancer, Pinter returned to public life last year to speak out against American belligerence. He called it a return from a "personal nightmare" to an "infinitely more pervasive public nightmare".

The playwright said: "The US is really beyond reason now. It is beyond our imagining to know what they are going to do next and what they are prepared to do. There is only one comparison: Nazi Germany.

"Nazi Germany wanted total domination of Europe and they nearly did it. The US wants total domination of the world and is about to consolidate that.

"In a policy document, the US has used the term 'full-spectrum domination', that means control of land, sea, air and space, and that is exactly what's intended and what the US wants to fulfil. They are quite blatant about it."

Pinter blamed "millions of totally deluded American people" for not staging a mass revolt.

He said that because of propaganda and control of the media, millions of Americans believed that every word Mr Bush said was "accurate and moral".

The US population could not be let off scot-free for putting the country under the control of an "illegally elected president - in other words, a fake".

He asked: "What objections have there been in the US to Guantanamo Bay? At this very moment there are 700 people chained, padlocked, handcuffed, hooded and treated like animals. It is actually a concentration camp.

"I haven't heard anything about the US population saying: 'We can't do this, we are Americans.' Nobody gives a damn. And nor does Tony Blair." Pinter added: "Blair sees himself as a representative of moral rectitude. He is actually a mass murderer. But we forget that - we are as much victims of delusions as Americans are."

In a British society where people were increasingly encouraged not to use their brains, the only way to protest was by "thought, intelligence and solidarity".


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Harold Pinter blasts 'Nazi America' [Re: Edame]
    #1626637 - 06/11/03 04:59 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Anyone who compares the US to Nazi Germany is a complete and total fuckwad who deserves no respect at all.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Harold Pinter blasts 'Nazi America' [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1626650 - 06/11/03 05:06 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Care to elaborate, or are you just hurling insults?


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,723
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Re: Harold Pinter blasts 'Nazi America' [Re: Edame]
    #1626663 - 06/11/03 05:13 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

When you smell roasting flesh, the comparison may work.

When gold teeth are yanked from sockets, the comparison may work.

When 6,000,000 are killed, the comparison may work.

Until then, the complete and total fuckwad comment is an accurate one.


EDIT: The unelected president comment clinches the deal to show just what a moron that putz is.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (06/11/03 05:15 PM)


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Harold Pinter blasts 'Nazi America' [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1626690 - 06/11/03 05:28 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I assume you're making reference to The Holocaust, which was one aspect of WWII, it was not 'Nazi Germany'. There was a Nazi Germany before the Holocaust (it didn't start and end with the Holocaust), and many other things happened before Hiltler tried to implement his 'final solution'. You seem to be implying that the Holocaust = Nazi Germany which just isn't true. As RAW would say, "The map is not the territory".

When Hitler attacked the Jews I was not a Jew, therefore I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the Catholics, I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists, I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned. Then Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church -- and there was nobody left to be concerned. ~ Martin Niemoller


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,723
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Harold Pinter blasts 'Nazi America' [Re: Edame]
    #1626710 - 06/11/03 05:33 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

One aspect? Sure, but a very important one and the one that first springs to mind for most people.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Harold Pinter blasts 'Nazi America' [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1626791 - 06/11/03 06:05 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I agree with you, it is the first thing that comes to people's minds, because it was so damn horrific, and it's an importand one. To use that as a single example to dismiss what he's saying is hardly fair though is it? I can't see how how any comparison like that can be drawn, because he seems to be referring to Nazi Germany and not the Holocaust.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,723
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Harold Pinter blasts 'Nazi America' [Re: Edame]
    #1626821 - 06/11/03 06:11 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

They CAN'T be seperated. There would have been no such event had there been no Nazi Germany.

And I aslo used his comments on the presidential election to dismiss him as a complete buffoon. He may not like Bush. He may hate him. However Bush won by all the rules in place at the time of the election.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Harold Pinter blasts 'Nazi America' [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1626878 - 06/11/03 06:36 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not going to go into the election, because that's a whole other thread, if you want to dismiss his opinion because of that, then fine, but he's hardly the only person on the planet to say this.

The Holocaust and Nazi Germany can be seperated, how else can people look back on them objectively? You said it yourself, one event led to the other. This is why people are so concerned, some fear the same pattern emerging. People haven't been slaughtered yet, but the fear is there that it might happen. The US has the highest prison population in the world (6 Million), it's one of the highest state-sponsored killers. People can be imprisoned indefinitely without trial. Terminal cancer patients are being thrown into jail for legally growing their own medicine. There's the 'War on Drugs' , the 'War on Iraq', the 'War on Terror', total fucking war. Lets not forget the Patriot Act and the Homeland Security Office. People post on these boards every day about the injustices going on in the US right now.
Just because people aren't being systematically exterminated yet doesn't mean that this downward spiral can't be compared to similar things that were happening in Nazi Germany before the Holocaust.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


Edited by Edame (06/11/03 06:38 PM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Harold Pinter blasts 'Nazi America' [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1627231 - 06/11/03 09:23 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Anyone who compares the US to Nazi Germany is a complete and total fuckwad who deserves no respect at all.



I'd have to agree. It's a cheap cop-out to compare ANYONE to Hitler or to compare any nation to Nazi Germany.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Harold Pinter blasts 'Nazi America' [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1627234 - 06/11/03 09:25 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The unelected president comment clinches the deal to show just what a moron that putz is.



Actually, that was probably the most accurate statement he made.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Harold Pinter blasts 'Nazi America' [Re: silversoul7]
    #1627361 - 06/11/03 10:10 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I feel merciful tonight.

Enjoy.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Harold Pinter blasts 'Nazi America' [Re: silversoul7]
    #1627419 - 06/11/03 10:41 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Anyone who compares the US to Nazi Germany is a complete and total fuckwad who deserves no respect at all.



I'd have to agree. It's a cheap cop-out to compare ANYONE to Hitler or to compare any nation to Nazi Germany.




He compared Bush's "administration" to Hitler's "Nazi Germany." A lot of people tend to boil it down to Bush = Hitler, which falls way short, but I think there is a good compare and contrast potential between Germany in the 30s and the U.S. today. Obviously there will be contrasts, but maybe the question is are there similarities worth considering? And not only with the current administration, but between the citizens then and the citizens now. Germans are generally pretty embarrassed about what happened. How did they let it happen? I asked my German then-girlfriend, and she got defensive and said, "Look at your country now. What are you doing about it?" And that's enough of a comparison right there.


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Invisible1stimer
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Re: Harold Pinter blasts 'Nazi America' [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1627480 - 06/11/03 11:12 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

"Anyone who compares the US to Nazi Germany is a complete and total fuckwad who deserves no respect at all. "
People who think like that are enablers of fascism hence proving the comparison between the US today and Nazi Germany. Thank you for that much needed evidence.


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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Anonymous

Re: Harold Pinter blasts 'Nazi America' [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1627865 - 06/12/03 02:35 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

LoveThemShrooms is brainwashed! neener neener neener!


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Harold Pinter blasts 'Nazi America' [Re: hongomon]
    #1627950 - 06/12/03 03:25 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


He compared Bush's "administration" to Hitler's "Nazi Germany." A lot of people tend to boil it down to Bush = Hitler, which falls way short, but I think there is a good compare and contrast potential between Germany in the 30s and the U.S. today. Obviously there will be contrasts, but maybe the question is are there similarities worth considering? And not only with the current administration, but between the citizens then and the citizens now. Germans are generally pretty embarrassed about what happened. How did they let it happen? I asked my German then-girlfriend, and she got defensive and said, "Look at your country now. What are you doing about it?" And that's enough of a comparison right there.




That's exactly what I was saying (or trying to say).


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Harold Pinter blasts 'Nazi America' [Re: silversoul7]
    #1628144 - 06/12/03 07:22 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I'd have to agree. It's a cheap cop-out to compare ANYONE to Hitler or to compare any nation to Nazi Germany.




You're right in general, but there are really some small similarities:
Guantanamo concentration camp, ignoring of UN, attacking other countries with false reasons.


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Harold Pinter blasts 'Nazi America' [Re: zeronio]
    #1628813 - 06/12/03 02:13 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Speaking of Guantanamo (Guardian:

US plans for executions at Guantanamo

David Teather in New York
Thursday June 12, 2003
The Guardian

US military officials are making preparations for the trial and possible execution of captives held in Guantanamo Bay, including the construction of a "death chamber".

A building at the detention camp in Cuba for suspected al-Qaida members is being renovated to serve as a courtroom for military tribunals, signalling that the US is moving towards bringing charges against some of the prisoners.

The prospect of possible executions will cause an uproar among human rights advocates and foreign governments, who have railed against the conditions of prisoners and the length of their detention. The 680 detainees are being held as "illegal combatants", allowing the US to sidestep the conventions that govern the holding of prisoners of war.

Westminster yesterday again sharply criticised the "anomalous situation" of the detainees, who include nine British citizens.

A spokesman for the Guantanamo prisoner task force said the preparations were "just a matter of prudent planning".

Officials would not say how executions of the prisoners, many of which were swept up during the war in Afghanistan, might be carried out.

The Foreign Office minister Mike O'Brien said representations continued to be made on behalf of the British citizens held. "We have made it clear that this matter has dragged on for a very long time and it's time that the US does seek to find ways of bringing these matters to a conclusion."
-----------------------------------------------------

Does this not set alarm bells ringing for anyone?


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Harold Pinter blasts 'Nazi America' [Re: Edame]
    #1628955 - 06/12/03 03:14 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I see a similarity between america and nazi germany....Its not really comparable yet, but theres a good foundation built...the potential is there, and recent activities do not bode well for the future...



--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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