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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Registered: 11/24/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
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How To Rate A Guru?
    #1625552 - 06/11/03 03:45 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Taken from http://www.globalideasbank.org/BOV/BV-557.HTML...

In the wake of scandals surrounding the Bhagwan and Hare Krishna religions in the States, the Institute for Social Inventions is compiling a list of questions that a would-be disciple could ask before joining up with a guru or new cult. The total of 'yes' answers to questions such as the following could provide a rough-and-ready comparative 'rating' of gurus:
(1) Is what the guru offers free?

(2) Is the guru relatively poor? - ie not having personal control (or control in practice) over more wealth than is needed for him or her to live in normal comfort and dignity?

(3) Is it unnecessary to join the organisation in order to have access to the teachings (are there books, tapes, open meetings, etc that transmit the knowledge needed)?

(4) Is it easy to leave the guru; are ex-disciples treated satisfactorily; and are 'opponents' of the guru treated fairly?

(5) Does the guru refrain from sexual involvement with the disciples?

(6) Is free contact allowed with families and friends?

(7) Is there respect for quality in the work of the guru's organisation (no ugly architecture for instance)?

(8) Are the guru's words in harmony with past spiritual insights, such as contained in Huxley's 'Perennial Philosophy' anthology?

(9) Is the organisation non-authoritarian - are there signs of democracy, for instance, or of questioning and debate and thinking for oneself being welcomed?

(10) Is the guru's legitimacy anchored in a tradition that points back to previous gurus, rather than the guru claiming to be the sole arbiter of his or her legitimacy?

(11) Does the guru avoid claiming to be a perfect master, offering the only route to enlightenment? Is he open about his own 'feet of clay', if he has them?

(12) Does the guru recognise that his or her authority is 'phase-specific', eg lasting only long enough to bring you up to his or her level of understanding?

(13) Does the guru's organisation, in its methods and in all aspects of its daily regime, successfully avoid psychologically coercive or brainwashing-style techniques?

(14) Do the guru's or organisation's replies to these questions agree with evidence from other sources? - for instance, ask the Cult Information Centre for their perspective (Ian Haworth, BCM Cults, London WC1N 3XX, tel 020 8651 3322).

(15) Does the guru have less than 1,000 signed-up disciples? (Gurus with large followings seem to be more prone to succumb to the temptations of power.)


'Guru Quotient' ratings table
Percentaging the positive answers to these questions - based on the available literature, with additional information from present and past disciples (and answering the questions as if all the gurus rated were still alive) - produces the following very approximate table:
- Bhagwan (Osho) 17 (out of 100);
- Maharishi 23;
- Leonard Orr of the Rebirthing movement 53;
- Swami Bhaktivedanta of the Hare Krishna movement 60;
- Krishnamurti 73;
- Stephen Gaskin (from the Tennessee farm commune) 77.

These ratings do not of course necessarily reflect what a disciple can learn from a particular guru, they are more an indication of how 'safe' the guru is. Potential disciples would be well advised to steer clear of becoming organisationally involved with 'low GQ' gurus. It is after all a very basic check-list: almost all traditional gurus for the last three thousand years would have had little difficulty in scoring in the 70s and above.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: How To Rate A Guru? [Re: Adamist]
    #1625558 - 06/11/03 03:54 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

This is hilarious... GQ funky man :grin:


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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Re: How To Rate A Guru? [Re: lucid]
    #1625573 - 06/11/03 04:07 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Now all we need is the pocket edition Guru Guide, complete with current
charts, who's on top, and who's sexually abusing who...
Then u can go from ashram to ashram and find the guru that matches
*your* lifestyle, with individualized plans to attain *your* personal
enlightenment...
And a full line of the hottest supplements, clinically proven to expedite nirvana,
after all we *know* all the hard work you've put into meditation day
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your third eye into the next dimension...
And check out these low emission <guru name >signature line SUVs,
so u don't feel guilty of ransacking the planets resources.
And let's not forget our Enlightened Match Making service, where u
can find the perfect companion for mutual spiritual growth (for a limited
time only, we'll throw in this fully illustrated copy of the Kama Sutra,
to help get u *started*)...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: How To Rate A Guru? [Re: lucid]
    #1625608 - 06/11/03 04:38 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

with so many enlightenment plans to choose from, it's tough to make a decision.
That's why we at EME (Enlightenment Made Easy) offers several plans to fit
your lifestyle. The approach is completely flexible and u determine your own
pace. There's an accelerated "I want my enlightenment and I want it NOW"
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try the "You already are enlightened u just need our $300 package to reassure u of this" bundle, complete with brainwave sync brainwashing CDs. We *understand* your busy and active lifestyle, but u don't need years of
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out our organized charaties and help those less fortunate (Save our Prodigal
.COM IPOs etc).


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: How To Rate A Guru? [Re: Adamist]
    #1625819 - 06/11/03 08:32 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Hehe... I wonder how the pope rates in their guru system. Lots of money, lots of power, lots of followers, no democracy, etc...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: How To Rate A Guru? [Re: Adamist]
    #1625911 - 06/11/03 09:56 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

(1) Is what the guru offers free?

This is nonsense. Why should every other instructor be reimbursed, but not a guru?

Swami - member of the I.G.A (international Gurus Association) since 1982


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (06/11/03 09:58 AM)


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: How To Rate A Guru? [Re: Swami]
    #1626040 - 06/11/03 11:37 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

>Why should every other instructor be reimbursed, but not a guru?
Because a truely enlightened guru has ultimate inner peace and
fullfilment and needs nothing else as compensation. However,
I think the I.G.A has a clause allowing "offerings" to the Guru.
i.e. gifts that are ultimately worthless to our enlightened master
but that he must humbly accept to acknowledge the generosity
of the gift giver...such items include but are not limited to flowers,
habiliments, alcoholic beverages, helicopters, general house hold
items, and common/uncommon materialistic posessions...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: How To Rate A Guru? [Re: lucid]
    #1626169 - 06/11/03 01:06 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Because a truely enlightened guru has ultimate inner peace and
fullfilment and needs nothing else as compensation.


A guru still needs food, shelter and a new red Ferrari Mondelo to attract young female initiates. I know from personal experience that a VW Microbus with flowers doesn't cut it anymore.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Re: How To Rate A Guru? [Re: Swami]
    #1626211 - 06/11/03 01:27 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

>and a new red Ferrari Mondelo to attract young female initiates
hehe... perfect for intensive Zen Tantra sessions :grin:


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 6,481
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
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Re: How To Rate A Guru? [Re: lucid]
    #1626232 - 06/11/03 01:35 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

gee
you
are
you
~
~
~


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineViBrAnT
WaRpInG &sPiRaLiNg
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 286
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: How To Rate A Guru? [Re: gnrm23]
    #1626360 - 06/11/03 02:42 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

a guru does not need food or shelter, he chooses it, remember no guru that is truly enlightened desires anything, he simply feels that he has everything and doesnt give it a second thought. Others may desire that their teacher is fed, watered, and sheltered, to the master it becomes simply prefrence: Shall i die today, or die tomorrow, is something that may travel through the masters mind, the thought ends with a chuckle and a true smile, for it is the master that has beseiged death, and thus realized his eternity in its totality.


--------------------
" liken this life illusory, for your sand castle will one day be adrift amongst the wind "




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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: How To Rate A Guru? [Re: ViBrAnT]
    #1626381 - 06/11/03 02:57 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

remember no guru that is truly enlightened desires anything

Where do you possibly come up with this nonsense? Gurus do not violate physical laws and still require energy. Need is not desire and food and warmth are basic needs.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,121
Loc: red earth painted with mi...
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: How To Rate A Guru? [Re: ViBrAnT]
    #1626455 - 06/11/03 03:38 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

"a guru does not need food or shelter, he chooses it, remember no guru that is truly enlightened desires anything"

i believe that thinking is too extreme, swiami said it right,desire isnt the same thing as needs...anyone who doesnt fullfill there needs is negligent and irresponsible. most gurus ive read about promote life,and try to greater the quality of life through understanding,starving yourself is the same is self-mortification,i dont buy it, gurus are still human


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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