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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: Cougheeman]
    #1623412 - 06/10/03 10:04 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Feel free to judge me my friend. Go ahead and cast the stones, preferably
large heafy ones.
It's so easy to stand by people in pain and tell them "Do you really expect life to be
just a breeze and expect someone to fix it?"
I'd recommend u go to the ER unit of your local hospital and find someone with
3rd degree burns and see if u can summon your heart to say these words
to him. You really don't know me or my life situation, but we are so quick to
size up people. The topic was "what do u expect after death" and I honestly
and truthful replied with a touch of levity. I made no personal remarks to anyone.
The topic was not "why does lucid (who we know little about) think his life
should be a breeze and someone should fix it for him". I hope this doesn't sound
too harsh, I mean no offense to u. But people are so quick to judge (and I'm
guilty of this too - but I try to keep in check).


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: shr00m]
    #1623439 - 06/10/03 10:25 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

is their (sic) something you people expect?

The question does not really make sense as there will be no "you" after death to expect anything.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: Swami]
    #1623443 - 06/10/03 10:28 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

the question makes no sense *only* if u assume that there will be
no "you" after death. Otherwise it makes sense.


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: lucid]
    #1623465 - 06/10/03 10:44 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

There is no reason to assume facts not in evidence. Let's look at what "you" are:

Your physical body: height, weight, gender, eye color; etc. - ALL GONE AFTER DEATH.
Your physical talents: playing soccer, guitar, writing - ALL GONE AFTER DEATH.
Your physical preferences: chocolate, redheads, scary movies; etc. - ALL GONE AFTER DEATH.
Your relationships: lovers, family, friends; etc. - ALL GONE AFTER DEATH.
Your memories: first kiss, skiing at Taos, tripping at the Greatful Dead; etc. - ALL GONE AFTER DEATH.
Your dreams & desires: publish a book, win a noble prize; etc. - ALL GONE AFTER DEATH.

What remains? Even if there is a soul left (for which there is zero evidence) it most certainly is not "you" as you define yourself today.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: lucid]
    #1623476 - 06/10/03 10:53 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

if anybody wants some real answers on death, then go here http://www.near-death.com

read the fuckin NDE's.  what they say about god, is just like my shroom experiences of feeling one-ness. It makes sense to me, and the messages of love being the only thing that really matters rings true in my heart, i mean it really clicks up here *taps head*.  This site is definately full of truth, and just like everything else, is not quite perfect.

enjoy, if you allow yourself to :wink:

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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: Swami]
    #1623479 - 06/10/03 10:54 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

this is getting tricky, and could soon crumble into a meaningless argument.
I think it depends on what u consider "yourself" to be...
at some point the line of reasoning will crumble when words/labels no
longer satisfy one side of the party. I could say that I consider myself
to be "conciousness" and you could retort, well what exactly is conciousness...
along the same line, I could start arguing well what *exactly* is a memory
or desire etc and at some point arguing will become meaningless.
I think people are talking about a coherent and distinct sense of
self here when they say "you". This is assumed to be intangible.
And folks are wondering if this intangible perception exists after
death and if so, what they expect to percieve...
whew...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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Offlinenubious
1up on the rest

Registered: 10/20/02
Posts: 534
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: lucid]
    #1623501 - 06/10/03 11:04 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Do you really expect life to be just a breeze and expect someone to fix it? Where is the challenge, this life is meant for learning; a spiritual development, how is that possible when everything is perfect?




Learning - Spiritual developement.... I'd try to sum it up but Swami put it best. I don't neccassarily agree with his point of view a lot of the time, but when it comes down to it, well, that's what you have.
The ONLY reason we learn is to survive in our environment - no matter which way you look at it, whether it be pleasure for the sake of learning or being force fed American Propaganda in school, it all comes down to your survival.
I think the question that needs to be answered before one can know what to expect after death, is 'what is the meaning of life' - well it's simple - the meaning of life is to survive - nothing more, nothing less. So far, you're doing good. Keep up the good work - who knows what tomorrow may bring...

Show me a spirit, and I'll show you how to develope it...


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.

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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: ]
    #1623508 - 06/10/03 11:10 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Hey Kottonmouth,
remember that these are "Near" Death Experiences, and must be
taken as such. I've yet to hear of someone being dead for a year
and comming back to tell his tale. The most remarkable one I read
was someone who was proclaimed dead for 3 days and woke up
in the morgue when they started an incision (ouch :wink:). I think to
establish real proof of afterlife, we'd have to establish an authentic,
reliable, repeatable and consistant means of communication with
such a realm. i.e. I know my dead grandmother is in some other
realm since I can do X,Y,Z and can communicate with her and
because I know of A,B,C I know that the entity I'm communicating
with is grandma AND that this can be repeatable and predictable
(this is an example ! not saying that I commune with grandma !) 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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OfflineCougheeman
enthusiast
Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 214
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: lucid]
    #1623522 - 06/10/03 11:19 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Lucid, iam sorry you misunderstood my statement. I was by no means trying to judge you. After all this is a fourm, i was inquiring about your post, not pulling it apart and criticizing everything you say.



--------------------
Aum Namah Sivaya

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: ]
    #1623528 - 06/10/03 11:22 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

read the fuckin NDE's.
Ah, nothing quite like "spiritual" anger. I feel your loving oneness.

what they say about god, is just like my shroom experiences of feeling one-ness.
Both experiences are brought about via altered LIVE brain states having nothing whatsoever to do with a DEAD brain.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: Cougheeman]
    #1623532 - 06/10/03 11:24 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

being near death is having just a taste of death. so it IS death. you ARE dead, just not for the rest of this life. But i do understand what your sayin, there is no "sure way" of knowing...but man i follow my heart at all times, and its gotten me very far compared to how far i got when i would have no heart at all. You dont really "understand" NDE's till you have had one yourself, then your eyes are truly open, till then everything is just a "maybe".

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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: Cougheeman]
    #1623533 - 06/10/03 11:24 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Cougheeman, Thanks for clearing that up :smile: 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,121
Loc: red earth painted with mi...
Last seen: 18 years, 7 months
Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: Swami]
    #1623535 - 06/10/03 11:26 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

what remains is energy...never created never destroyed, just a transfer of energy


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

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Anonymous

Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: CleverName]
    #1623554 - 06/10/03 11:34 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

read the fuckin NDE's.
Ah, nothing quite like "spiritual" anger. I feel your loving oneness.

what they say about god, is just like my shroom experiences of feeling one-ness.
Both experiences are brought about via altered LIVE brain states having nothing whatsoever to do with a DEAD brain.




for the first comment, just because i am aware of the love, doesnt take the thug out of me. I will always be a juggalo till the day i die. Its not anger, if i was mad i wouldnt be here, this is just how i am i guess(blame society). Me knowing god as well as i do, i know that swearing dont mean SHIT to him. words are words man, nothing more. its the thoughts that count. I mean no bad by saying "fuck", you think just because churchy mother fuckers dont like swearing that swearing is wrong or void of love or looked down upon by god, but man, fuck that idea, God dont give a FUCK. one of the ten commandments is not to say the lords name in vain....well i know thats bullshit, i dont know anyone that says "god damn mother fucker" and actually means God when saying it. Its the THOUGHT that counts. So god will not send you to hell for picking up "god damnit" from someone when you were 5. understand?

to the second comment, i have nothing to prove, just sharing the info man

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: CleverName]
    #1623608 - 06/10/03 12:02 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

what remains is energy...never created never destroyed, just a transfer of energy

Do you ACTUALLY understand The Laws of Thermodynamics or are you just totally misapplying this quote because you heard it before? They do NOT apply to form. If there were some "energy" leftover (whatever that means) it would be measurable. When a man dies there is no energy released other than the heat from decay, but not at the moment of death.

Is that how you define yourself? As energy not form. "You" is a unique form (a member of the shroomery, a brother, a son, a friend) that will no longer exist after death.

When someone genuinely asks, "How are you?" Do you not scan your body for physical or emotional or life situation and relationships before answering? Perhaps you answer, "I am an eternal energy field that cannot be harmed or destroyed." IF YOU TRULY BELIEVED THIS YOU WOULD BE FULL OF NON-STOP JOY. But because it is not real and you only want to believe it, you suffer like the rest of us.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (06/10/03 01:05 PM)

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Anonymous

Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: Swami]
    #1623691 - 06/10/03 12:58 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


There is no reason to assume facts not in evidence. Let's look at what "you" are:

Your physical body: height, weight, gender, eye color; etc. - ALL GONE AFTER DEATH.
Your physical talents: playing soccer, guitar, writing - ALL GONE AFTER DEATH.
Your physical preferences: chocolate, redheads, scary movies; etc. - ALL GONE AFTER DEATH.
Your relationships: lovers, family, friends; etc. - ALL GONE AFTER DEATH.
Your memories: first kiss, skiing at Taos, tripping at the Greatful Dead; etc. - ALL GONE AFTER DEATH.
Your dreams & desires: publish a book, win a noble prize; etc. - ALL GONE AFTER DEATH.

What remains? Even if there is a soul left (for which there is zero evidence) it most certainly is not "you" as you define yourself today.





Just because you associate "I" with the physical body doesn't mean everyone does.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: ]
    #1623710 - 06/10/03 01:11 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Just because you associate "I" with the physical body doesn't mean everyone does.

Maybe not; just everyone that I know and everyone that I have ever met. Baywatch was one ot the most popular TV shows of all time, now why is that? Why are cosmetic companies billion dollar a year industries?

Do you not spend money on nice clothes and grooming? When you are trying to meet a new potential romantic partner do you focus on your bodily appearance or your energy field?

"Hey baby, I may have forgotten to shower, but my aura is sure glowing today."


Are you up for the Swami Pin-sticking Challenge? That is where I jab you with a 4" hat pin. If you yelp then you are obviously associating with your body.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 1,301
Loc: Planet Irk
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: Swami]
    #1623738 - 06/10/03 01:29 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Although our physical body exists here who is to say that we dont have other parts of us existing in diffrent dimentions of reality.  Sorta like an interdimesional slug creatures that jumps to a new blank host as we die and be reborn. :smile:


--------------------
Fighting the man the best way I can.

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Anonymous

Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: Swami]
    #1623752 - 06/10/03 01:38 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Yes I see what you are saying. As long as physical existence is the only reality we know, that's what humans will relate to.

Why is it that when we're under the influence of psychedelics, such as shrooms, that we're so unconcerned with the physical? We (I know I'm generalizing here) care little about survival instincts like eating, sex and avoiding injury while tripping. How could we possibly be unconcerned with these things while under the influence of a drug? It goes against logic that our brains would be capable of existing in this state when from the point of view of Darwinian evolution, the psychedelics are nothing more than adversarial to our physical wellbeing and survival. Have you ever even deeply contemplated the fact that there are actual receptors for tryptamines in our bodies? Why in the hell would they even be there from an evolutionary point of view?

I'm not trying to argue anything in particular but I'd like to hear your opinion on this.  :smile: 

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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: what do u expect after death? [Re: ]
    #1623779 - 06/10/03 01:50 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Fascinating point !
true, we have an ability/afinity to be weird  :grin:
:crazy:
 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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