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Offlineobtuse
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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #16213048 - 05/11/12 12:06 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Psilocybe subaeruginosa have a huge range of morphological variations.  over the last twenty years i have seen an astounding variety of colouration, stem shape, cap shape, cap edge.  This probably a result of a wide range of genetics characters within the species, but also being expressed depending on their habitat and what nutrients and water levels they have available.

Given that P. subaeruginosa, P. cyanescens, and P. azurescens are very closely related i also would not surprised if there are many of the same alleles present in their genetics, which give rise to the amazing similarities between some examples of each.

Given that there used to be a P. tasmanian, P. australiana, and P. eucalypta, now included in P. subaeruginosa by Chang and Mills, it illustrates how much variety is present.

Yes Tas75 found a very P. cyanescens looking P. subaeruginosa last year, but i was decided it was a P. subaeruginosa, but with unusual characters.  A site i was aware of twenty odd years ago, all had the P. cyanescens characterists, and being pre-internet we spent ages trying to work out what they were and thought at the time they were P. cyanescens.

But with the amount of spore print trading going on you would never know.  some person may have been experimenting, and some got loose.  certainly possible.

Cheers, Obtuse.

Edited by obtuse (05/11/12 01:35 AM)

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OfflineSlavich
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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: obtuse]
    #16213203 - 05/11/12 01:03 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I found an imposter! Bastards trying to make it into my honeypot :frown:



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OfflineTas75
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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: obtuse]
    #16213326 - 05/11/12 01:55 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

obtuse said:
Yes Tas75 found a very P. cyanescens looking P. subaeruginosa last year, but i was decided it was a P. subaeruginosa, but with unusual characters.  A site i was aware of twenty odd years ago, all had the P. cyanescens characterists, and being pre-internet we spent ages trying to work out what they were and thought at the time they were P. cyanescens.




Actually, it was finally labelled as Psilocybe aff. cyanescens. The pleurocystidia are hyaline. Psilocybe subaeruginosa as described by Cleland has brown pleurocystidia. Not that I'm sure that's a good character... From what I hear it's common for P. subaeruginosa to have hyaline pleurocystidia.

This is the post in question.

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Offlineblessed


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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: Tas75]
    #16216192 - 05/11/12 05:32 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Hello Everyone :smile:

first, thank you maynardjameskeenan for answering question on potency.

obtuse, I know for a fact that my knowledge in the field of mycology is very very very limited, but i did want to add to your post that these recent finds look quite different to the ones i saw in Melbourne only a few weeks ago. They both were found in the same type of environment, but that's where things (seem to) change. The caps, even the stems, just seem different.

Again, I am no expert, but i only grabs these to start with cause a friend of mine told me about the location of them. Had i had my subs eyes locked on for subs, i most likely would have kept walking.

Here are more shots for the experts to decide.

Ether way, in a few hours, I'll be flying though the intergalactic universe (thanks to these subs, or what ever the hell they are) :wink:





btw, if these are Psilocybe cyanescens, are there poisonous imitators?

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InvisibleNoxADVANCED
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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: blessed]
    #16216234 - 05/11/12 05:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Nah basically cyan is a wavy capped sub and vice versa.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: NoxADVANCED]
    #16216291 - 05/11/12 06:06 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

NoxADVANCED said:
Nah basically cyan is a wavy capped sub and vice versa.





They are different species.

One of the Psilocybe subaeruginosa collections examined from Australia turned out to be Psilocybe cyanescens when sequenced.  It had wavy caps and everything.

I am not sure if it is growing in the wild out there or if someone is cultivating them.

Blessed's collection looks a lot like Psilocybe cyanescens and may be that species.

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InvisibleNevermind
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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: NoxADVANCED]
    #16216326 - 05/11/12 06:16 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Checked out all my patches today. Only two have psilocybes at the moment, the others should start having some pop up in the next couple of weeks.

Someone has been at my main patch - ripped out lots of ferns which the mushrooms usually grow beneath. Same thing happened last year and it really slowed things down up there.

Managed to get a few though...


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InvisibleNevermind
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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: Nevermind]
    #16216406 - 05/11/12 06:41 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Just checked a spot in my garden where I found my first ever subs two seasons ago.

One lonely pin... Usually around June it gets some nice big fruits. Just needs a little bit more time.

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OfflineTas75
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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #16217538 - 05/11/12 11:15 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
One of the Psilocybe subaeruginosa collections examined from Australia turned out to be Psilocybe cyanescens when sequenced.  It had wavy caps and everything.





Hi Alan, Obtuse,

I have always seen all the P. cyanescens look-alikes growing only in ladscaped environments, whereas typical P. subaeruginosa morphotypes occur in both urban and natural environments. In my experience, down here sub morphotypes are more common in natural situations. This is ambiguous as it could simply be reflecting a different morphology responding to a different environment, or it could indicate that urban environments, where fungal spores from overseas travellers are probably not uncommon, have seen exotic species become established.

The lack of brown pleurocystidia on my collection from last year that I posted in another forum (and link to above) is interesting, in that this is pretty much the defining character of Psilocybe subaeruginosa Cleland, isn't it? I have not done the microscopy myself but left it to a local expert.

Anyway, here are some interesting things I saw today. These are (almost) the southernmost subs in Australia. I say almost because they've previously been collected in offshore islands off the southern Tas coast, but this is from the southernmost part of mainland Tasmania.

Note the super-chunky stem in these, and that they look of the cyan morphotype. The cap is approximately 7cm across and the stem in some specimens was over 1cm thick. About 200m up the road there were typical, Tasmanian subs with a circular, strongly umbonate cap and slender, tall stipe.


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Offlineobtuse
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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: Tas75]
    #16217988 - 05/12/12 01:22 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Yes they have been seen on Maatsuyker Island.

And have also been documented.

amazing how these little guys travel.

Cheers, Ob.

Edited by obtuse (05/12/12 01:24 AM)

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Offlineobtuse
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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: Tas75]
    #16218006 - 05/12/12 01:29 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tas75 said:
Note the super-chunky stem in these, and that they look of the cyan morphotype. The cap is approximately 7cm across and the stem in some specimens was over 1cm thick. About 200m up the road there were typical, Tasmanian subs with a circular, strongly umbonate cap and slender, tall stipe.





i wonder if the bracken fern has anything to do with it, and the subsequently high nitrogen content in the soil that results from their presence.

just speculation, but i know from my own experience, wherever i have found the some morphotype there has always been an abundance of bracken.

Theres a potential study in that i reckon Tas75 :wink:

Cheers, Ob.

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Invisibleolive
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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: obtuse]
    #16218105 - 05/12/12 02:18 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

This is some interesting goodness!!

These are some subaeruginosa that i grew last season.




The spores came from subs from a small West australian town in the south of the state.



As they matured their caps became wavy etc........

I have wondered for a long time if one of the spots I pick wild subs from were azures or cyans.
Wondered this as they are early to fruit compared to my other patches and are very strong.

It's a long shot, but if someone wanted to check this out under a scope I'd happily send them a few prints from some of my patches including the 'wavy' one.





:amanita2:


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: olive]
    #16218145 - 05/12/12 02:41 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tas75 said:
The lack of brown pleurocystidia on my collection from last year that I posted in another forum (and link to above) is interesting, in that this is pretty much the defining character of Psilocybe subaeruginosa Cleland, isn't it? I have not done the microscopy myself but left it to a local expert.





Brown cystidia is a defining characteristic of Psilocybe subaeruginosa, however none of the collections I have examined have had anything other than hyaline cystidia.  Others in Australia have scoped many collections and never seen the brown cystidia that is in Guzman's description.

Cleland's original description doesn't even mention cystidia, the brown cystidia is due to Guzman's examination of collections borrowed from Australian herbariums.  I am not sure if he has seen the type, it is gone now in any case.

Perhaps there is a true Psilocybe subaeruginosa with brown cystidia and 99% of what people find is another species.  But nothing else in section Cyanescens has brown cystidia so I think it is an error.

Brown cystidia is usually found in species from Psilocybe section Brunneocystidiatae.


Here is Cleland's original description of Psilocybe subaeruginosa:



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OfflineTas75
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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #16218271 - 05/12/12 03:22 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Here is Cleland's original description of Psilocybe subaeruginosa:





Great, thanks Alan!

I note there is not much there to grab hold of as being distinctive.

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: Tas75]
    #16218336 - 05/12/12 03:50 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tas75 said:
I note there is not much there to grab hold of as being distinctive.





I know, that description could apply to many species.

That kind of work would never fly today, but I guess shit was crazy back in the 20's.

We should dispatch hunting teams to the locations listed in Cleland's description to collect neotypes for herbarium deposit so some serious work can be done on this taxon.

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Invisibleolive
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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #16218350 - 05/12/12 03:58 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:


We should dispatch hunting teams to the locations listed in Cleland's description to collect neotypes for herbarium deposit so some serious work can be done on this taxon.







Fukn A !!  :thumbup:





:amanita2:


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OfflineTas75
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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #16218374 - 05/12/12 04:32 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

That's not totally out of the question... both Waterfall Gully and Mt. Lofty are practically suburban Adelaide today... there have to be some South Ozzies here who can do it :wink:

Out of all the morphotypes of Psilocybe subaeruginosa I regularly see in Tassie the most common looks not unlike Psilocybe azurescens: Caramel coloured, and campanulate with a strong umbo. The variability of colour, from pale straw yellow to dark caramel, as well as shape, from conical-campanulate with a strong umbo, through depressed with no umbo to wavy-capped and almost infundibiliform is more than just a function of where they grow or their age... There are often several fruiting bodies (obviously from the same mycelium) that share the same characteristics. Of course the trick is where to draw the line between inter- and intra-specific variation. It doesn't help that traditional species concepts are of almost no use here.

Now, if there was someone with the time and inclination to try growing all these forms outdoors in the same environmental conditions...  :biggrin:

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OfflineTas75
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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: Tas75]
    #16222826 - 05/13/12 02:04 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Went for a walk in the bush near my house today:


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InvisibleNoxADVANCED
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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: Tas75]
    #16222976 - 05/13/12 03:10 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tas75 said:
That's not totally out of the question... both Waterfall Gully and Mt. Lofty are practically suburban Adelaide today... there have to be some South Ozzies here who can do it :wink:

Out of all the morphotypes of Psilocybe subaeruginosa I regularly see in Tassie the most common looks not unlike Psilocybe azurescens: Caramel coloured, and campanulate with a strong umbo. The variability of colour, from pale straw yellow to dark caramel, as well as shape, from conical-campanulate with a strong umbo, through depressed with no umbo to wavy-capped and almost infundibiliform is more than just a function of where they grow or their age... There are often several fruiting bodies (obviously from the same mycelium) that share the same characteristics. Of course the trick is where to draw the line between inter- and intra-specific variation. It doesn't help that traditional species concepts are of almost no use here.

Now, if there was someone with the time and inclination to try growing all these forms outdoors in the same environmental conditions...  :biggrin:



Posted link in SA thread:thumbup:


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Offlineblessed


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Re: * Tasmania season 2012 * [Re: NoxADVANCED]
    #16223220 - 05/13/12 07:11 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Hello :smile:

Nice finds Nevermind & Tas75  :wooawesome:  Tas75, They look awesome!!!!

Just a few question for anyone who would like to help,

I know i can use the search, but as I've gone from a complete noob to a 50% no 50% ob ALL in this thread, i thought it would be a great way for other new members and hunters to see what a new person goes through as they go from white belt in mycology to brown belt (that bruises blue) :wink:

What's the best way to get my recent find (page 8 up the top) growing in other places?
(i plan to get them growing everywhere i can)

Can you over pic an area?
(i haven't taken them all, but right now there are only babies (pins) visible (im sure my friend has visited the patch) as I don't want to kill it for obvious reasons)

Thanks in advance for any helpful replies

btw, just an update on yesterday. i had 21 dried and it was intense but also amazing. probably one of the best ever trips I've had

Psilocybe cyanescens based on ALL my trips, kick subs in the butt

Also, Thanks to the men & women that make this site possible, and all the wonderful people on this site. My life is better because of this site :smile:

Edited by blessed (05/13/12 07:33 AM)

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