Home | Community | Message Board



Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Emotions vs. Reason
    #1621018 - 06/09/03 04:27 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I notice how a lot of people will condemn others for "thinking with their heart instead of their head," but is this really such a bad thing? Without emotions, we would not exercise compassion and mercy. The way I see it, without emotions, there can be no morals. The reason I say this is that morals are based on values, and values are essentially a trained emotional response to various stimuli. For example, we value freedom because we are taught to have a positive emotional response to it. Similarly, we shun greed and selfishness because we are taught to have a negative emotional response to such things. This is why I have contended all this time that there is no objective morality.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineWaveRider
In search ofWisdom

Registered: 01/12/03
Posts: 69
Loc: CANADA
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Emotions vs. Reason [Re: silversoul7]
    #1621135 - 06/09/03 05:11 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I try to make my decision based on logic, only. I say this because, while emotions are subjective to person (ie. each person reacts emotionally differently to situations), logic is not.
Emotions can be good, like love and compassion, however they can also bring great suffering, which, in my opinion, occurs more often then not. One can also make decisions based on hatred, an emotion as strong as love which will only bring suffering.
We (humans) are emotional by nature but we also have the ability to use logic. As an intellectual species we should look to that aspect of life. Emotions are instinctual, they are warning method for danger and a way to connect individuals, they are only a simple tool of survival. It is the gift of a wise mind to know when to use emotions and when not to.



--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer, the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear, permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it is gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineshaggy101
Male

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1,816
Loc: ..still waiting for godot
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
Re: Emotions vs. Reason [Re: silversoul7]
    #1621184 - 06/09/03 05:32 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Emotion and reason are words just like anyother used to express the reality behind them.
I mention this because emotions can for me at least explain a quick flick of anger or a sowly brewed hatred, a passionate deciscion of love or the longing to understand how wisdom and love (from a subjective human perspective ) can be the same thing.

For me there are two basic kinds of emotions(just a word) being phyisical instinctual and spiritual. Spiritual being a more thought out and therefore generally more logical.
The thing about the second is it would be better put emotion, since although there are different shades or reflections it is really only one.. And it isnt wrong for me ever. It is the slow burning passion of wisdom(love by choice not instinct) as a bitter choice is made.
Love enhanced by years of sorrow, the truth stregtened and secured by conviction of love..maybe this is the blending of the inner fire and the wheels of the mind.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Emotions vs. Reason [Re: silversoul7]
    #1621462 - 06/09/03 06:58 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

silversoul7 writes:

The reason I say this is that morals are based on values, and values are essentially a trained emotional response to various stimuli.

Incorrect. Values do not depend on emotion. The reverse is true. You have it 180 degrees out of phase.

For example, we value freedom because we are taught to have a positive emotional response to it.

No, we value freedom because we are intellectually aware that without it we cannot survive. We then become HAPPY when we CONTEMPLATE our freedom because we know that we possess something of value.

This is why I have contended all this time that there is no objective morality.

And this is why you have been wrong all this time. Objective morality has exactly zero dependency on any emotional response, positive or negative. You are putting the cart before the horse.

pinky


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Emotions vs. Reason [Re: Phred]
    #1621525 - 06/09/03 07:19 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

No, we value freedom because we are intellectually aware that without it we cannot survive. We then become HAPPY when we CONTEMPLATE our freedom because we know that we possess something of value.



If freedom is objectively good, then people in every society should predictably consider it good, yet there have been societies in the past, most notably the Spartans, who did not necessarily consider freedom to be a good thing.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineWaveRider
In search ofWisdom

Registered: 01/12/03
Posts: 69
Loc: CANADA
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Emotions vs. Reason [Re: Phred]
    #1621567 - 06/09/03 07:34 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 writes:

The reason I say this is that morals are based on values, and values are essentially a trained emotional response to various stimuli.

Incorrect. Values do not depend on emotion. The reverse is true. You have it 180 degrees out of phase.




Not necessarily. Morals are just TRAINED EMOTIONAL RESPONSES brought about by some original emotional stimuli. For example, the idea that drugs are bad probably came about by a FEAR of their effects. Some morals probably came about due to some one's initial emotional response to a topic.

Quote:

For example, we value freedom because we are taught to have a positive emotional response to it.

No, we value freedom because we are intellectually aware that without it we cannot survive. We then become HAPPY when we CONTEMPLATE our freedom because we know that we possess something of value.




Domestic animals live happy lives without freedom, would a human in captivity be any different? We are TAUGHT to value freedom, the very word has no real meaning but that which is passed to us.




--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer, the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear, permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it is gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Emotions vs. Reason [Re: WaveRider]
    #1622019 - 06/09/03 10:02 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

WaveRider writes:

Not necessarily. Morals are just TRAINED EMOTIONAL RESPONSES brought about by some original emotional stimuli.

Incorrect. Objective morality is in no way derived from emotions. Besides, what I deliberately bolded (in order to make plain the part of the statement I was rebutting) was not silversoul7's comment that "morals are based on values", but his comment that "values are essentially a trained emotional response to various stimuli." Values are nothing of the kind.

Some morals probably came about due to some one's initial emotional response to a topic.

There is a fundamental difference between "customs" or "tradition" or "culture-induced habits" and morality -- but many people posting here seem to automatically conflate the two. To clarify things for you, replace "moral" with "ethical".

Domestic animals live happy lives without freedom...

Unproven and unproveable, unless one can read the minds of domestic animals. Is a milk cow "happy" or just resigned to its fate?

... would a human in captivity be any different?

Humans are no more domestic animals than are zoo tigers, and react no better to forced captivity. Ask any prisoner kept against his will if he is "happy". Besides, morality is a null concept in the context of domestic animals.

We are TAUGHT to value freedom...

Since humans are born with no inbuilt knowledge, everything is taught to us. What's your point?

... the very word has no real meaning but that which is passed to us.

Incorrect. The word has very real meaning -- a meaning that can be demonstrated ostensively, not just through semantics.

pinky


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Emotions vs. Reason [Re: Phred]
    #1622078 - 06/09/03 10:22 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)


^This guy has his third eye squeegeed quite cleanly. :tongue:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Emotion vs. Logic
( 1 2 3 all )
OrgoneConclusion 3,195 43 03/02/09 07:03 PM
by Hubbub
* "faith" vs. "reason" gnrm23 1,195 13 01/21/04 04:38 AM
by Psilocybeingzz
* Are morals subjective?
( 1 2 all )
Anonymous 4,250 35 04/24/03 07:58 AM
by MarkostheGnostic
* becoming free of morality
( 1 2 3 4 all )
SneezingPenis
5,721 72 09/24/06 09:32 PM
by Icelander
* Music = Math + Emotion ( = The Development of Man...?)
( 1 2 all )
PhanTomCat 2,132 29 06/10/05 11:00 AM
by fireworks_god
* Reason and Passion SkorpivoMusterion 768 8 12/13/05 03:23 PM
by Veritas
* emotion and experience crunchytoast 768 15 08/29/05 07:04 PM
by crunchytoast
* reconciling spirituality and reason crunchytoast 1,905 18 05/03/05 04:11 AM
by Alan Stone

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
673 topic views. 1 members, 1 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Mycohaus
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.026 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 19 queries.