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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Living with no context
    #16194899 - 05/07/12 01:30 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Is it possible to live without context as a human outside of an insane asylum?


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Living with no context [Re: White Beard]
    #16194912 - 05/07/12 01:34 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

How could one know they are living without context if there is no context to let them know?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Living with no context [Re: Kickle]
    #16194914 - 05/07/12 01:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Oh, true that. :lol:


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OfflineLion
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Re: Living with no context [Re: White Beard]
    #16194923 - 05/07/12 01:39 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Interesting exercise idea: Try to write down, in as much detail, the entire context of your life.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Living with no context [Re: Lion]
    #16194938 - 05/07/12 01:41 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

When I first started going through my existential melt down 3 years ago, I tried to write down exactly what defined 'me'. I wrote several pages. None of it felt right though. Now I'm down to just 'I am?'


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Living with no context [Re: White Beard]
    #16194958 - 05/07/12 01:48 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

enlightenment in the madhyamaka system of buddhist philosophy is pointed to as being the complete freedom from all reference points (including the reference point of being free :lol:) - so i guess this is the same thing as living with no context in the mind. the only way to find out if this is truly possible would be to achieve such realization. you can gain some faith in its possibility by watching yourself become less and less burdened by context as you practice and extrapolating it i guess too.

the existential meltdown sounds pretty cool :laugh:


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Living with no context [Re: deff]
    #16194972 - 05/07/12 01:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Well, I have been watching myself, and I've watched a deteriorating ability to interact with other humans and society. I can still do it, but it's getting harder.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Living with no context [Re: White Beard]
    #16194980 - 05/07/12 01:56 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

maybe it's more a case of a deteriorating need to communicate rather than ability? i find when i have no need to communicate, forcing any communication becomes kinda awkward. if that's the case, maybe it's also a matter of being in the wrong environment / around the wrong types of people? you communicate here fine :lol:


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Living with no context [Re: deff]
    #16194992 - 05/07/12 01:59 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, that's it. I'm pretty quite these days. I'm just running out of things to say. :shrug::lol:


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Living with no context [Re: White Beard]
    #16195002 - 05/07/12 02:01 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

sounds peaceful to me :sun:


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Living with no context [Re: deff]
    #16195006 - 05/07/12 02:02 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Sometimes it is.
Sometimes it isn't. :shiftyeyes:


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Living with no context [Re: White Beard]
    #16195015 - 05/07/12 02:06 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

i'm listening to a talk by Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche and this quote just came up:

"if you are a buddhist, loneliness is dawn of wisdom. you are supposed to invest on this loneliness. if you are lonely, you are feeling awkward with this samsaric life. you can sense that it's not working. you can kind of feel that it's all a little bit over-promising, sort of. so you can feel this. so this feeling awkward, feeling not belonging to this is actually a very important factor a practitioner is supposed to invest."

thought it was kinda applicable here :laugh:


--------------------



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OfflineLion
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Re: Living with no context [Re: White Beard]
    #16195036 - 05/07/12 02:10 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I would recommend engaging your mind in the world, and not receding away from it as you seem to be doing.  It can be a positive thing to limit your words and interactions with others, but it sounds like it's causing your some stress or negativity. 

For a long time, I tried to subdue my thinking mind.  With psychedelics, I reached a point where I could barely interact with anyone.  I was so in tune, painfully in tune, with everyone's vibrations, but I'd lost the ability to interact on a personal level, and became almost terrified with how much I seemed able to read people's thoughts and intentions.  Eventually I was able to ground myself, and learned how to contribute to a conversation, how to listen and really try to process what people are saying and formulate a useful response, how to be in the world again.  The negative side was that was I was dragged back into ego games that I thought for a while I had transcended, and I 'lost' myself in consensual human reality again, and felt (and still feel) that I had lost my spiritual path.  It's a balancing act, I suppose. I'm not at a point where I can say that I have good advice to offer based on my own state of being, but I think this advice could be helpful for you to keep in mind.  Don't just turn off your mind and float downstream.  Activate it, hone it, saturate it with diverse knowledge, and use it to your advantage.  Engage in the world and make an effort to develop good relationships.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Living with no context [Re: deff]
    #16195038 - 05/07/12 02:11 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Wow, cool stuff. :thumbup:
I often get pretty lonely when I'm around others. Strangely enough when I'm alone meditating, or walking in the woods, I don't feel lonely. :strokebeard:


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Living with no context [Re: Lion]
    #16195045 - 05/07/12 02:14 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Lion said:
I would recommend engaging your mind in the world, and not receding away from it as you seem to be doing.  It can be a positive thing to limit your words and interactions with others, but it sounds like it's causing your some stress or negativity. 

For a long time, I tried to subdue my thinking mind.  With psychedelics, I reached a point where I could barely interact with anyone.  I was so in tune, painfully in tune, with everyone's vibrations, but I'd lost the ability to interact on a personal level, and became almost terrified with how much I seemed able to read people's thoughts and intentions.  Eventually I was able to ground myself, and learned how to contribute to a conversation, how to listen and really try to process what people are saying and formulate a useful response, how to be in the world again.  The negative side was that was I was dragged back into ego games that I thought for a while I had transcended, and I 'lost' myself in consensual human reality again, and felt (and still feel) that I had lost my spiritual path.  It's a balancing act, I suppose. I'm not at a point where I can say that I have good advice to offer based on my own state of being, but I think this advice could be helpful for you to keep in mind.  Don't just turn off your mind and float downstream.  Activate it, hone it, saturate it with diverse knowledge, and use it to your advantage.  Engage in the world and make an effort to develop good relationships.




I try, but I'm getting more and more tempted to just totally let go and float off into infinity. I don't see the point of trying to build a sand castle that's just going to wash away again and again.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Living with no context [Re: White Beard]
    #16195049 - 05/07/12 02:14 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

same here... i also sometimes get this very distinct sadness around others - i guess related to impermanence and the lack of meaning in light of that impermanence mixed with compassion for them. i remember another talk by DKR where he talked about this sadness and said we should try to see other people's pursuits as like kids building sand castles at the beach unaware that the waves are going to soon demolish it, etc. (or something like that, my memory is a little shoddy)


--------------------



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Offlinedeff
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Re: Living with no context [Re: deff]
    #16195050 - 05/07/12 02:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

lol wow... i posted that before reading your sand castle remark :lol:


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Living with no context [Re: deff]
    #16195056 - 05/07/12 02:16 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, I feel how other people are trying to create something together with me, and I'm feeling less and less inclined to play the game these days, and it makes me sad knowing that it reminds them also of the futility of the game.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Living with no context [Re: deff]
    #16195062 - 05/07/12 02:17 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
lol wow... i posted that before reading your sand castle remark :lol:




:shocked:
Cool stuff.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Living with no context [Re: White Beard]
    #16195069 - 05/07/12 02:18 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

yeah i can relate with that :sun:


--------------------



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OfflineLion
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Re: Living with no context [Re: White Beard]
    #16195070 - 05/07/12 02:18 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)



See how they invest all of their effort, their finely-honed meditative focus, their considerable patience, into this "sand castle."  They are affirming the value and beauty of human life, living it as an art-form, and celebrating rather than dwelling upon its transience.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Living with no context [Re: Lion]
    #16195083 - 05/07/12 02:20 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

:strokebeard:


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Living with no context [Re: Lion]
    #16195095 - 05/07/12 02:23 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

i think there can be a good balance between dwelling on impermanence and enjoying life. doing only one without the other i think is missing something. after making the sand mandala, the monks sweep it up (i'm sure you know) and throw the sand into an ocean/body of water as a reminder of impermanence. sometimes i find the sadness of seeing the futility of life actually makes life more beautiful and ironically more meaningful. when each act could be your last, each act becomes infused with much significance.


--------------------



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Offline4896744
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Re: Living with no context [Re: White Beard]
    #16195245 - 05/07/12 02:58 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
Is it possible to live without context as a human outside of an insane asylum?




The only experience I had that felt anything like having no context was on a very big dose of LSD. I had no memories, just experience. The fact that I was watching something still counts as context though imo.

Quote:

White Beard said:
When I first started going through my existential melt down 3 years ago, I tried to write down exactly what defined 'me'. I wrote several pages. None of it felt right though. Now I'm down to just 'I am?'




I would guess that is because any line you draw will be arbitrary. None of it felt right, because none of it is right or wrong, just preference.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
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Re: Living with no context [Re: deff]
    #16195761 - 05/07/12 04:34 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
i think there can be a good balance between dwelling on impermanence and enjoying life. doing only one without the other i think is missing something. after making the sand mandala, the monks sweep it up (i'm sure you know) and throw the sand into an ocean/body of water as a reminder of impermanence. sometimes i find the sadness of seeing the futility of life actually makes life more beautiful and ironically more meaningful. when each act could be your last, each act becomes infused with much significance.




I was thinking today about how decay reminds me of tears. Tears of the universe perhaps. Now are they tears of sorrow, or tears of joy? :strokebeard:


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Living with no context [Re: White Beard]
    #16195978 - 05/07/12 05:19 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Find the Reality, you are not you there, no one separate to be lonely. That's my secret - I have hardly any social life, yet I am more confident, more dynamic, more interesting and fun than most people I run into who live 'busy lives'.

But getting out there, even at inopportune times, and trying to be a part of it all is good for you in moderation. Very good. Share the loooovvveee!!!


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Living with no context [Re: circastes]
    #16196004 - 05/07/12 05:24 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

PS. so much is just your state of mind, and depending on how you live it could be ALL THERE IS. Certainly dreams, OBEs and general interest are pretty much based on your state of mind, and confused states will give confusing experiences, confusing days.

Sort of seems obvious but wait until you step into the Reality and see the difference...


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OfflineNARYA
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Re: Living with no context [Re: circastes]
    #16196353 - 05/07/12 06:48 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

"joy, land locked in bodies that dont keep
Dumbstruck with the sweetness of being, until we dont be"


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Living with no context [Re: White Beard]
    #16208531 - 05/10/12 04:22 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
Is it possible to live without context as a human outside of an insane asylum?




Yes, live without 'I', live unattached to your body

Your body has inbuilt context measurements, it naturally senses the dimensions of space (height, width, length), weight, time, etc, these contexts all come naturally to your body, including its relation to other bodies in time & space.

What is your context to your body though?
We say 'my body' which implies me + body, so already the context is one of some detachment, the greater this detachemnt the greater you live out of the context of humanity & more of the context of eternal awareness, spirit rather than flesh, and paradoxically this is to truly be human.


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Edited by Chronic7 (05/10/12 04:27 AM)


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