|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
bishlap
Po Thead



Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 4,085
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
|
selective breeding for physical features.
#16194814 - 05/07/12 01:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
the past few tubs of gt's I have done have each produced a few "gnome hat" shaped caps and there were a few with very short stems resembling small toad stools that for some reason I find especially beautiful and almost hard to harvest.
I'm shure I could take a few tissue clones and possibly isolate those physical features.
but would it be possible or feasible to print these caps then MS them in to master jars then print any caps with the physical features from those that I want and repeat?
would/could that lock genetics enough to at least have the trait I'm after be the dominate feature?
I'm shure if it would work it might take 100's of print>fruit>repeat if not more.
or would I be able to isolate the features from tissue then grow that out print them,MS> fruit isolate from tissue of another with the traits I'm after and repeat?
could that lock genetics in to a print?
I'm not trying to create a new "strain" or anything just trying to get a better understanding of genetics. I am more than willing to read anything on mushroom genetics if anyone has a good link.
and can anyone make a good suggestion on a book that covers mushroom genetics, isolation , breading and such. I would be grateful.
-------------------- "If you're not worried that you took way
to much, you didn't take enough" -
Terrence McKenna
There is no soul, only the ego dies.
The body was never yours.
|
Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
|
Re: selective breeding for physical features. [Re: bishlap]
#16194828 - 05/07/12 01:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah, you inbreed at each step. So if you consistently select for characteristics which are genetic, you can create a family of mushrooms that look similar to each other. That's how PE happened, for example.
There's a post by Workman (I think?) that goes into detail- search on 'heterozygosity'.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
|
Closet-Mushroom
Psychonaut

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 216
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
|
Re: selective breeding for physical features. [Re: bishlap]
#16194846 - 05/07/12 01:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
If you wanted to isolate that one specific type of mushroom, you will need to use a piece of live tissue. Although if you printed the cap and did some MS cultures, each spore would contain a part of the genetics you want, but would not guarantee the results. The problem with MS is that you can have TONS of spores germinating and each would have different genetics. So rather than colonizing a culture with spores of all different genetics, you would want to use the mushroom tissue, which we know is one specific genome.
|
Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
|
Re: selective breeding for physical features. [Re: Closet-Mushroom]
#16194852 - 05/07/12 01:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Actually, a mushroom fruitbody contains multiple individual genetic organisms. Dozens, possibly hundreds.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
|
Closet-Mushroom
Psychonaut

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 216
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
|
Re: selective breeding for physical features. [Re: Doc_T]
#16194898 - 05/07/12 01:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Really? wow, guess you learn something every day. Thanks for clearing that one up.
|
bishlap
Po Thead



Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 4,085
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
|
Re: selective breeding for physical features. [Re: Closet-Mushroom]
#16194936 - 05/07/12 01:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I believe that MS basically resets genetic code, but is it possible to "inbreed" enough so that "gnome hats" would be the dominant feature from a MS grow, and how many generation's would be needed?
does "inbreeding" cause adverse affects or is there enough genetic diversity present within successive prints?
-------------------- "If you're not worried that you took way
to much, you didn't take enough" -
Terrence McKenna
There is no soul, only the ego dies.
The body was never yours.
|
Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
|
Re: selective breeding for physical features. [Re: bishlap]
#16194962 - 05/07/12 01:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
MS does not "reset the genetic code". Mushrooms tend to resemble their parents, same as humans. Doesn't mean they will be identical, and there certainly can be variation- one kid is smarter than the other, one kid is taller, etc. But they all tend to have mom's red hair and the milkman's eyes. So it is with mushrooms, they look like their parents. (But each mushroom contains multiple 'parents', so a spore print is more like a tribe or village than it is a family.)
Whether inbreeding creates a problem depends on the exact situation. PE is very slow to colonize, for example. And frequently throws mutant blobs for the first flush. Anywhere outdoors, that's a recipe for extinction. In the home lab, it leads to some very happy FOAFs since potency is genetic.
You could accidentally select for less potency while breeding for gnome hats. Or, you could potentially select for more potency, if it's linked to the same chromosomes.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
|
Workman
1999 Spore War Veteran



Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,615
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 2 days, 3 hours
|
Re: selective breeding for physical features. [Re: bishlap]
#16194970 - 05/07/12 01:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply
My Instagram
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification 
|
Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
|
Re: selective breeding for physical features. [Re: Workman]
#16194993 - 05/07/12 01:59 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Oh, hi Workman! 
I was just looking for the post, and here you are with it!
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
|
Workman
1999 Spore War Veteran



Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,615
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 2 days, 3 hours
|
Re: selective breeding for physical features. [Re: Doc_T]
#16195010 - 05/07/12 02:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Hi Doc_T!
Yeah, it took me awhile to find it myself. It is actually easier to find on other forums where it has been reposted.
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply
My Instagram
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification 
|
bishlap
Po Thead



Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 4,085
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
|
Re: selective breeding for physical features. [Re: Workman]
#16195021 - 05/07/12 02:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
 I like how you explained that, makes sense.
so it would if nothing lower the amount of flushes if I were to take a tissue sample and isolate that feature then maybe tissue clone the best looking one from the best isolate then start from spores from the nicest one/s from that flush beforer senescence sets in?
cloning a ms fruit will in a sense give you multi strain sample right? usually atleast
but will an isolated fruit produce genetically similar spores as to say you went in a tribe found the best looking man and woman and some how had a million kids that paired up and from the kids children you chose the best looking male and female isolated them and repeated?
-------------------- "If you're not worried that you took way
to much, you didn't take enough" -
Terrence McKenna
There is no soul, only the ego dies.
The body was never yours.
|
Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
|
Re: selective breeding for physical features. [Re: Workman]
#16195030 - 05/07/12 02:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I remembered 'heterozygosity' and was going from there.
Quick example of undesirable genetics: I had some invitro pins that were pretty big. Caps opened up inside the grain jars. I thought "nice sterile prints!" but didn't realize that photosensitive pining is a genetic trait. All the descendant cultures exhibited terrible light sensitivity, they'd pin enthusiastically anywhere light hit them. I finally had to discard the culture, it was just miserable to work with.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
|
bishlap
Po Thead



Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 4,085
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
|
Re: selective breeding for physical features. [Re: Workman]
#16195086 - 05/07/12 02:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Workman said: 6 or 7 generations should be enough.
Link for details: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10242476#10242476
wow only 6-7, I was expecting exponentially more.
I never would have thought genetics would change that fast. but I guess if you think about it humans can do the same thing just takes decades look at California then look at Wisconsin.
-------------------- "If you're not worried that you took way
to much, you didn't take enough" -
Terrence McKenna
There is no soul, only the ego dies.
The body was never yours.
|
|