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DesykaLamgeene
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Registered: 02/22/12
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Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning??
#16193026 - 05/07/12 12:00 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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This is in reference to cubes with horse manure. I only misted upwards over the tub and let the mist fall down over the substrate - but I noticed that over time as I did this, the mycelium on the surface went from fluffy to matted down and tough-looking. I got barely any fruits from the top surface - 98% came out the fluffy sides of the substrate.
Am I correct in assuming that this happened because the top layer became unsuitable for pinning due to the misting/tough surface?
This makes sense to me, but at the same time it doesn't, because I hear so many people saying that they directly mist their cakes/substrate, or that they REALLY wet it down and have no problems and even pin sets.
So what's the deal?
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TheEaglesGift
The Nagual


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 10,554
Loc: Ixtlan, Mexico
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Re: Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning?? [Re: DesykaLamgeene]
#16193312 - 05/07/12 01:50 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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My opinion for the reason you got mostly side pins is because your climate at the side of your substrate was more optimal than the top of your substrate. The main factor here would be humidity. Raise the humidity in your tub and line the bottom/sides of your substrate with a black trash bag.
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Diesel_Dawg
Not a noob


Registered: 05/21/09
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Re: Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning?? [Re: TheEaglesGift]
#16193350 - 05/07/12 02:07 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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The trash bag isn't even completely necessary, but EaglesGift is right on track about why you're pinning on the sides vs the top. What you describe is clear evidence that your humidity on the surface of the substrate is less than optimal.
You need to work on your tub design to make sure you can keep the RH up to an acceptable level. once you nail down the right tub setup, you'll find yourself getting nice pinsets without having to mist much at all. What kind of tub design are you using? How many holes? What diameter? Placement? Polyfil? density of polyfil?
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DesykaLamgeene
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Re: Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning?? [Re: Diesel_Dawg]
#16193877 - 05/07/12 08:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ah yes, I should have included that - it's actually a SGFC.
I did the PF tek, but a lot of my jars started pinning invitro and the mushrooms got so big before 100% colonization that I decided to just birth them all, scrap the uncolonized portions, and spawn to horse manure in 5 separate little tupperware containers.
After being in the SGFC for a while the 'cakes' in the little containers started to shrink away from the sides of the containers - so I know that made the sides much more likely to pin, but still - it seems that the top is so dang tough and smooth (like I assume overlay would be, but this is my first grow so I'm not 100% sure) that even if they hadn't pulled away from the sides that they probably still wouldn't have been able to pin from the tops.
But I'm new to all this and this is my first grow so I'm really just observing and guessing based upon what I observe - totally open to other possibilities.
As a side note - it's pretty dang humid where I live (84% right now) and I was keeping the tub, perlite and 'cakes' moist fairly consistently, but allowing them to dry up a little between mistings - so I wouldn't think the humidity level suffered much (if at all), but I could be wrong!
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DynGBreeD
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Registered: 01/15/11
Posts: 3,639
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Re: Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning?? [Re: DesykaLamgeene]
#16193908 - 05/07/12 08:44 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Pinning before 100% colonized if often the sign of an unseen contaminate. And Even then you could of spawned Cakes and the Fruits into your bulk substrate. Fruits are 100% Mycelium.
Shrinking is inevitable. But I've found they shrink faster/more the dryer they become. I'm guessing you properly pastuerized the manure before spawning? Hydrating it properly? And your SGFC is built correctly? With 1/4 inch holes on all 6 sides, with at least 4+ inches of damp perlite depending on the size of your tub?
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
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Re: Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning?? [Re: DynGBreeD]
#16193921 - 05/07/12 08:50 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
This makes sense to me, but at the same time it doesn't, because I hear so many people saying that they directly mist their cakes/substrate, or that they REALLY wet it down and have no problems and even pin sets.
This is correct. By failing to properly mist/spray/water, you allowed your cakes to dry out and this is the reason for the poor performance. You're supposed to mist well a few times daily. If misting was bad, mushrooms outdoors wouldn't grow after hard rains or thunderstorms, and dunking our cakes would kill them. You have to disregard posts from ten years ago by noobs at the time saying direct misting is bad. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning?? [Re: DynGBreeD]
#16193923 - 05/07/12 08:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DynGBreeD said: And your SGFC is built correctly?
Generally you'll find that newbs answer "yes" to this whether it's true or not. You'll get a much more accurate answer if you ask for pics and don't tell them why.
Not talking about OP, just in general.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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DynGBreeD
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Registered: 01/15/11
Posts: 3,639
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Re: Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning?? [Re: Doc_T]
#16193929 - 05/07/12 08:58 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said:
Quote:
DynGBreeD said: And your SGFC is built correctly?
Generally you'll find that newbs answer "yes" to this whether it's true or not. You'll get a much more accurate answer if you ask for pics and don't tell them why.
Not talking about OP, just in general.
Actually thought about that after I posted it... Why people feel it's so hard to follow directions I'll never know.
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DesykaLamgeene
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Re: Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning?? [Re: DynGBreeD]
#16193938 - 05/07/12 09:02 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
I'm guessing you properly pastuerized the manure before spawning? Hydrating it properly? And your SGFC is built correctly? With 1/4 inch holes on all 6 sides, with at least 4+ inches of damp perlite depending on the size of your tub?
Yup - pasteurized the manure in quart jars in a pot of water with a thermometer sticking into one of them - kept at proper temp for proper time (can't remember those exact details at the moment but made sure to do a lot of research and get the right info at the time).
Hydrated to field capacity - just a few drips when squeezed.
SGFC - 1/4" holes every 2" on all 6 sides, and abour 4' of perlite.
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DesykaLamgeene
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Re: Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning?? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#16193940 - 05/07/12 09:05 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
By failing to properly mist/spray/water, you allowed your cakes to dry out and this is the reason for the poor performance.
I did mist a few times a day - many days I misted even 4 or 5 times. I was just saying I didn't keep them constantly drenched in water - I allowed some time between mistings for the water to evaporate.
Trust me guys, I'm pretty anal about doing things right - especially when I care about something as much as this project. I am not a 'half-asser'. I researched LONG before I started this grow, and have continued to research pretty much every single day during, and plan to continue to do so cause I'm always learning and when I decide to learn something, I intend to go 'all the way'. 
Pics are on the way.
Edited by DesykaLamgeene (05/07/12 09:09 AM)
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning?? [Re: DesykaLamgeene]
#16193953 - 05/07/12 09:10 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Nothing personal, it's just the weary result of season after season of new cultivators. If you are actually as detail-oriented as you say, it'll be your turn to answer the next round of questions. It'll happen over Christmas vacation, be ready for it.
Quote:
Why people feel it's so hard to follow directions I'll never know
Kids today can't focus for more than a minute or two. Fundamental root of the problem is TV remote controls, IMHO.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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DesykaLamgeene
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Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning?? [Re: Doc_T]
#16193965 - 05/07/12 09:15 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Those pics were just taken after misting the sides of the tub just a lil' while ago - there is not normally any condensation in the tub.
I got a decent first flush out of this setup so I'm not really having any horrible problems; just the side pinning. Everything else has gone very well.
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DynGBreeD
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Registered: 01/15/11
Posts: 3,639
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Re: Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning?? [Re: DesykaLamgeene]
#16193972 - 05/07/12 09:17 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Floor is a bad place to keep the tub bro.. Unless you just sat it there to take pics. You want it at least 3 feet above the ground IMO.
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DesykaLamgeene
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Registered: 02/22/12
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Re: Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning?? [Re: Doc_T]
#16194026 - 05/07/12 09:37 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nothing personal, it's just the weary result of season after season of new cultivators.
Oh I feel ya; I totally understand.
Quote:
If you are actually as detail-oriented as you say, it'll be your turn to answer the next round of questions. It'll happen over Christmas vacation, be ready for it.
I'd be glad to, given that I get enough grows/experience in before then. =)
And yes...most kids have a serious issue with their awareness. Due to things such as excessive TV, as you mentioned, among other things, they're minds need to have something to 'ride along with' (be it a TV show, other people, music, video game, whatever) and when they don't have that and it comes down to being with their own mind and allowing their awareness to 'just be', or focus on something, problems arise.
Children (and even MANY adults) would greatly benefit from meditation, or even just being with oneself for a portion of each day, without external stimulus.
But ok I'm running this thread off topic, heh. Back to the matter at hand.
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DesykaLamgeene
Stranger
Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 296
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning?? [Re: DynGBreeD]
#16194038 - 05/07/12 09:40 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah I'm aware of that, I just don't have anywhere more suitable to put it here. But I appreciate ya lookin' out for me. 
I make sure to keep the room really clean to at least somewhat offset the potential threat of contams.
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n20forme
TRUSTED CULTIVATOR




Registered: 01/29/06
Posts: 158
Loc: USA
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning?? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#16194670 - 05/07/12 12:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
This makes sense to me, but at the same time it doesn't, because I hear so many people saying that they directly mist their cakes/substrate, or that they REALLY wet it down and have no problems and even pin sets.
This is correct. By failing to properly mist/spray/water, you allowed your cakes to dry out and this is the reason for the poor performance. You're supposed to mist well a few times daily. If misting was bad, mushrooms outdoors wouldn't grow after hard rains or thunderstorms, and dunking our cakes would kill them. You have to disregard posts from ten years ago by noobs at the time saying direct misting is bad. RR
RR is nothing but a want-a-be. what are his 3 biggest accomplishment ( besides putting common knowledge on a dvd)?,
1.) growing shrooms on a bible 2.) growing shrooms on a bra and wearing it like a cross dressing faggot 3.) resurrect the redspore aka redboy, BUT his version he f*cked all to hell and you get mutants out the ying yang.. funny tho, the original PF redspore ( which RR used as a starting point), works just fine... If RR was as good as he believes he is why couldnt he resurect the strain without crossing it? obviously someone had no problems, and ended up with a much better strain.
I am soo sick of hearing "RR said"
charging $40+ for common knowledge, is like the keeper charging $75 for a spore syringe. both are preying on the noobs and the uninformed.
TO THOSE WHO ARE NEW TO THE HOBBY, BEFORE YOU BUY HIS DVD, ADD 4 BUCKS TO IT, AND BUY STAMMETS MUSHROOM CULTIVATOR,
you'll get 1000X more knowledge, but you wont get 5 minutes of watching RR put rye grain in a colander.lol.. your choice.
-------------------- "In the 60's we learned that in order to change the world, we must change ourselves first."
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning?? [Re: n20forme]
#16194689 - 05/07/12 12:45 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
I am soo sick of hearing "RR said"
Then leave.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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DesykaLamgeene
Stranger
Registered: 02/22/12
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Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning?? [Re: Doc_T]
#16194733 - 05/07/12 12:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Doc, I finished reading your "Mini Mono Tub update w/pics" thread last night and you mentioned that you mist those tubs heavily once, sometimes twice a day - have you ever experienced anything like the substrate surface becoming matted down? Your grows in that thread show that you obviously don't have any problems with that, so I'm curious as to what effect, if any, the heavy misting has on your sub.
(I don't think you used the phrase "heavy misting" but I figure I'm close enough - correct me if I'm wrong on your exact procedure.)
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning?? [Re: DesykaLamgeene]
#16194758 - 05/07/12 12:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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When you first mist a tub, the fluffy myc will contract and compress. Yeah, I mist MSG tubs heavily. Soak 'em down good, then let it evaporate. Like a pasture in Florida. Rains like hell for 45 minutes, then the sun comes out. You don't want standing water, just wet it back to full field capacity. And you don't want to keep it soggy, wet it and let it evaporate.
Misting the air and letting it fall down like a fairy sprinkling pixie dust is old info. People used to misunderstand the relationship between FAE, humidity, and pinning.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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n20forme
TRUSTED CULTIVATOR




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Re: Misting uncased substrate = matted down mycelium/side pinning?? [Re: Doc_T]
#16194811 - 05/07/12 01:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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YOU GOT A ZERO TOO for your 35,000 posts why don't you work like a real american instead of collecting SSI...
-------------------- "In the 60's we learned that in order to change the world, we must change ourselves first."
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