Home | Community | Message Board

MagicBag Grow Bags
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next >  [ show all ]
Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,409
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: Icelander]
    #16178204 - 05/03/12 07:19 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Doesn't help the ones that are forced does it?




about as much as a fallacious statement about the tradition. technically, governments are who force women to wear burqas. i won't defend the mistreatment of women in arabic muslic theocracies, but islam exists outside of those countries where that happens.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJwlst
Stranger

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 1,338
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #16178212 - 05/03/12 07:20 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Don't forget those who choose to wear it as a fashion statement.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedesert father
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/10
Posts: 1,102
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: johnm214]
    #16185309 - 05/05/12 09:18 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

"Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible"

yes there is, and it's the only interpretation that matters, and that is your own interpretation.


--------------------
vi veri veniversum vivus vici

What she said :
"I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an
Early death
AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: Kickle]
    #16185564 - 05/05/12 10:46 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

desert father said:
"Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible"

yes there is, and it's the only interpretation that matters, and that is your own interpretation.





So you say, but provide no evidence or reasoning.

My interpretation of the bible is not coherent, which I thought was obvious given the discussion in the original post.  Please provide some evidence that you, me, or anyone has a coherent interpretation of the bible- which is also what I asked for in the original post. :rolleyes:


Quote:

Kickle said:
Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
I'm providing an interpretation of the Bible that I find coherent. I don't expect myself to understand every little detail of the Bible because it is an unrealistic expectation given my own ignorance of story origins and historical context. But I'm a theist. I also read a wide variety of writings from other religions, philosophers and scientists. There is no inherent conflict on my end and also the reason
that having the responsibility on the individual doing the reading is helpful in my case.

The purpose of the physics publication example was to illustrate the relative nature of coherence. What is coherent for one may not be for another. I don't think this is a bad thing.




You're a theist? :eek:




:lol:

Yeah. I don't give any form it takes much credibility but I don't deny it either. I trust myself enough to let it be as it is.





This seems like it might be contradictory.  How do you have a theology you believe to be true yet not give it much credibility?  It seems this conflicts with the very definition of a theist- at minimum you must have some theology that you believe which has something to say about the mind of god, his wishes, et cet.  If you don't believe this, in what sense are you a theist?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedesert father
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/10
Posts: 1,102
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: johnm214]
    #16185644 - 05/05/12 11:11 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

lol, what do you mean evidence.

what i or anyone else thinks of the bible doesn't matter, it's what you think of it that does.

you want evidence that you are your own unique person, with a unique set of senses, experiencing life in your own unique way, and that only your own impression of individual experiences should matter to you?

are you delusional?

oh yea, and this :rolleyes:


--------------------
vi veri veniversum vivus vici

What she said :
"I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an
Early death
AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"

Edited by desert father (05/05/12 11:14 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,063
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: desert father]
    #16186843 - 05/05/12 04:54 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,953
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: johnm214]
    #16187013 - 05/05/12 05:32 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


This seems like it might be contradictory.  How do you have a theology you believe to be true yet not give it much credibility?  It seems this conflicts with the very definition of a theist- at minimum you must have some theology that you believe which has something to say about the mind of god, his wishes, et cet.  If you don't believe this, in what sense are you a theist?





I'm a theist in that I believe there is a/are deit(y)ies. And I don't hold any of the structures built around this/these seriously due to impermanence. I do share the vision of such stories and descriptions often though. So the stories have relevance in my life, including the descriptions of deities.

I once made a post about Icelander being a Gatekeeper. That's a Buddhist deity. In Icelanders case, I was referencing a deity named Yamantaka that has perfected nihilism and with this perfection guards the Southern gate to Enlightenment. This deity is often depicted with a skull in hand and fearsome features. He is also described as "wrathful" but in Buddhism a wrathful deity is not evil, it is one that is hard to swallow for most because fear gets in the way. A wrathful deity helps to address these fearful aspects of the world that we do not want to address.

This is not to say that Icelander is literally a Buddhist deity, but rather that at that time he was symbolic of such a deity to me. And with that view I proceeded to apply what he wrote as a means to propel my own journey towards enlightenment, trusting that gate. And it worked for that goal. What that means I have no idea and I don't dwell on it much. Like I said, it's an impermanent phenomena, likely not existing a single moment longer than it did as an experience. So I would not suggest it for others as a rule, as though it were a permanently existing phenomena. In this way dogma strikes me as a misguided notion of the permanence of stories.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,409
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #16187043 - 05/05/12 05:38 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

i think icelander is just generally misinformed. lol.

sorry icelander. :shrug:


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,953
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: millzy]
    #16187067 - 05/05/12 05:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Are you saying that you are not misinformed?

I'll openly admit I am either missing information or have heard wrong information about hundreds if not thousands of everyday things. Let alone what the universe contains.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,409
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #16187098 - 05/05/12 05:52 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Are you saying that you are not misinformed?

I'll openly admit I am either missing information or have heard wrong information about hundreds if not thousands of everyday things. Let alone what the universe contains.




i'm not claiming to be an authority on anything, but i do feel comfortable in sufficiently backing my claims, especially in conversations like this. for whatever that's worth. i could be mistaken but the general impression i get of him and a few other posters is that he's quick to make claims about very complicated subjects that are too generalized to have any validity.

that's not a personal attack btw. i don't know the guy and have no axe to grind; i just generally disagree with his positions.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,953
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: millzy]
    #16187112 - 05/05/12 05:57 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

he's quick to make claims about very complicated subjects that are too generalized to have any validity.

Can you give an example and explain the way in which it lacks validity? I've found him very open in this regard :thumbup:. Plus since I share many of the same views it could be very useful to hear your arguments.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: millzy]
    #16187148 - 05/05/12 06:03 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
i think icelander is just generally misinformed. lol.

sorry icelander. :shrug:




Another classic well thought out debate post by millzy. :thumbup:

How am I misinformed?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,409
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: Icelander]
    #16187181 - 05/05/12 06:08 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

millzy said:
i think icelander is just generally misinformed. lol.

sorry icelander. :shrug:




Another classic well thought out debate post by millzy. :thumbup:

How am I misinformed?




you tend to be reductionist in your assertions. you make sweeping generalizations about extremely complex subjects that are false. at least in the discussions i pay attention to.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,409
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: Kickle]
    #16187191 - 05/05/12 06:10 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
he's quick to make claims about very complicated subjects that are too generalized to have any validity.

Can you give an example and explain the way in which it lacks validity? I've found him very open in this regard :thumbup:. Plus since I share many of the same views it could be very useful to hear your arguments.




see earlier in this thread his comment about islamic women and burqas.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,953
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: millzy]
    #16187234 - 05/05/12 06:16 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

To some extent I agree with you. It's human beings who force women to cover themselves, not a religion. But they are doing so under a religious tutelage. You cite that Islam exists in countries that do not mandate such measures, and suggest that it is the government that is responsible. Why would the government mandate such a thing? You don't think it's related to their populace, which is Islamic?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedesert father
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/10
Posts: 1,102
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: millzy]
    #16187253 - 05/05/12 06:20 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

everything in life is extremely complex and any "understanding" is a sweeping generalization.

without these distinctions or lines drawn in the sand we would not have a stance on any subject in life.

your glass is just half empty when it comes to your view on icelander.


--------------------
vi veri veniversum vivus vici

What she said :
"I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an
Early death
AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,409
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: desert father]
    #16187351 - 05/05/12 06:38 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
To some extent I agree with you. It's human beings who force women to cover themselves, not a religion. But they are doing so under a religious tutelage. You cite that Islam exists in countries that do not mandate such measures, and suggest that it is the government that is responsible. Why would the government mandate such a thing? You don't think it's related to their populace, which is Islamic?




i'm not arguing that in countries where women are forced to wear burqas that the law isn't based on religion. i'm arguing a) that there are countries that don't foist such a practice on its citizenry, and its muslim citizenry still engage in it, and b) yes, it's governments i.e. people who devise and enforce such laws in the first place. the medium by which a tradition is interpreted and integrated into a society is people.

Quote:

desert father said:
everything in life is extremely complex and any "understanding" is a sweeping generalization.

without these distinctions or lines drawn in the sand we would not have a stance on any subject in life.

your glass is just half empty when it comes to your view on icelander.




no. "understanding" any subject means you have a grasp on it enough to not make incorrect statements, and in the case mentioned above (i'm just using that b/c it's in this thread) icelander is making an incorrect statement.

and all that aside, this discussion has absolutely nothing to do with islam. arguing. beside. the. point.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

Edited by millzy (05/05/12 06:39 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: millzy]
    #16187377 - 05/05/12 06:45 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

millzy said:
i think icelander is just generally misinformed. lol.

sorry icelander. :shrug:




Another classic well thought out debate post by millzy. :thumbup:

How am I misinformed?




you tend to be reductionist in your assertions. you make sweeping generalizations about extremely complex subjects that are false. at least in the discussions i pay attention to.




How are they  false. Better come up with some examples so you can school me.

Religious practice is what religion is all about. If muslims force women to wear certain things based on religious belief then the religion is the tool to oppress women.  It doesn't really matter what the holy book says but it does matter what people do in the name of that book.  People are religion they created it and wrote the book and interpret it according to their needs.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,409
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: Icelander]
    #16187382 - 05/05/12 06:46 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

i came up with an example from this thread, so consider yourself schooled.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,953
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
Re: Is there a coherent interpretation of the Bible- even through 'non-litteral interpretations'? [Re: millzy]
    #16187390 - 05/05/12 06:49 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah that's fair. Lots of folks take shots at religious atrocities where they can, even if it's not a strictly black/white situation. This forum is one of the few outlets for such behaviors in a public sphere. Especially for the older crowd here who grew up in a much different climate.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Post deleted by Anno
( 1 2 3 all )
Anonymous 5,476 45 03/08/04 02:40 PM
by Alan Stone
* To the Christians; From Enter
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
World Spirit 12,995 157 07/21/03 07:37 PM
by Funguy
* Say something positive about Christians
( 1 2 3 all )
silversoul7 4,938 43 09/06/04 12:57 PM
by ska8ball
* For any Christians who may have an interest in converting... *DELETED*
( 1 2 3 all )
OkEyToKeY 4,753 51 01/14/04 06:53 AM
by cybrbeast
* Christianity
( 1 2 3 all )
Digs 6,272 49 07/12/03 06:44 AM
by nubious
* Christianity and "salvation"
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
SoopaX 10,479 112 08/16/05 09:31 AM
by eve69
* What is the truth behind Disney? tekramrepus 2,381 18 06/20/03 06:58 AM
by champ
* On Jewish Science, & Gentile Holocaust luciferhorus 1,221 8 05/20/05 08:09 PM
by Huehuecoyotl

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
6,028 topic views. 0 members, 4 guests and 25 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.029 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 16 queries.