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OfflineNeuronicObserver
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Registered: 02/02/12
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Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Reinoculate if jars do not colonize?
    #16182794 - 05/04/12 06:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

1. I have a few jars which have not began colonization. It seems like a good idea to just inoculate them again to save resources/hassle. Does this seem valid? It has been a couple of weeks, so either some of the spores are very slow at germinating or they are not viable or something else went wrong. There seems to be stark inconsistency with these MS spores, it is disconcerting :/

Other questions that I have not found answers to:
2. Has anyone read about or tried using hybrid grade verm? I mean mixing fine verm with medium/coarser verm. I thought of this for giving the fine verm more structural integrity against the compaction caused by pressure cooking. Also this would theoretically give the substrate best of both worlds. Some of my jars have this, waiting to measure results against control group.
3. Is compaction from pressure cooking a widespread issue and what kind of solutions have you guys come up with? I have read that you should pack the jars more tightly since they will compact upon cooking anyways, which prevents open space above the dry verm layer. I am using an 8 quart presto pressure cooker.


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OfflineMr. Wilson
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Re: Reinoculate if jars do not colonize? [Re: NeuronicObserver]
    #16182806 - 05/04/12 06:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

this your first go round??


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OfflineNeuronicObserver
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Re: Reinoculate if jars do not colonize? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
    #16182822 - 05/04/12 06:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Wilson said:
this your first go round??




2nd. The previous grow was sterilized by boiling a pot of water. I have now moved onto a pressure cooker and it has given me some trouble.


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Edited by NeuronicObserver (05/04/12 06:12 PM)

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OfflineMr. Wilson
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Re: Reinoculate if jars do not colonize? [Re: NeuronicObserver]
    #16182827 - 05/04/12 06:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

was the first a success??


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OfflineNeuronicObserver
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Re: Reinoculate if jars do not colonize? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
    #16182839 - 05/04/12 06:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Wilson said:
was the first a success??




Yes, but I also had slowish/inconsistent colonization even though I used the correct substrate ratios, temperature, and 1-2ml of spore solution per jar.


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Edited by NeuronicObserver (05/04/12 06:20 PM)

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OfflineMr. Wilson
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Re: Reinoculate if jars do not colonize? [Re: NeuronicObserver]
    #16182882 - 05/04/12 06:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

how long did you PC the jars at 15 POUNDS--how long did they cool---is the foil or some other obstruction still on top of jars--when did you inoculate??? questions questions---usually 15 people done jumped on this trying to help i feel im being watched--ill get you straight though


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OfflineSimpleFarmer
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Re: Reinoculate if jars do not colonize? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
    #16182894 - 05/04/12 06:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Your gettin evaluated  :smile:

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OfflineMr. Wilson
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Re: Reinoculate if jars do not colonize? [Re: SimpleFarmer]
    #16182910 - 05/04/12 06:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

i fuckin KNEW it---yall boys are always fast round here


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OfflineNeuronicObserver
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Re: Reinoculate if jars do not colonize? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
    #16182914 - 05/04/12 06:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Wilson said:
how long did you PC the jars at 15 POUNDS--how long did they cool---is the foil or some other obstruction still on top of jars--when did you inoculate??? questions questions---usually 15 people done jumped on this trying to help i feel im being watched--ill get you straight though




This makes me very happy, thanks for offering your insight :smile:
The jars were PC'd for 60 minutes, PSI is not indicated, so I'm assuming it is 15 PSI. They cooled for about 2 days, then I inoculated them. I might be PCing 10 more jars in case there is something wrong with my current batch. Do you think there is anything I should do different with these?


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OfflineMr. Wilson
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Re: Reinoculate if jars do not colonize? [Re: NeuronicObserver]
    #16182928 - 05/04/12 06:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

is the foil still on em---two weeks is more than enough time for contams to start---i assume the jars were sterile---i have never had spores take that long to pop though but its not unheard of--keep em at room temp on a shelf for another week or so---you really need to get a PC with a gauge on it though---id bet you left the foil on though


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Edited by Mr. Wilson (05/04/12 06:41 PM)

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OfflineNeuronicObserver
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Re: Reinoculate if jars do not colonize? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
    #16182937 - 05/04/12 06:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Wilson said:
is the foil still on em




Nope, there is just masking tape covering the holes.


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OfflineMr. Wilson
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Re: Reinoculate if jars do not colonize? [Re: NeuronicObserver]
    #16182948 - 05/04/12 06:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

THERES ya problem---take that shit off---i put a coffee filter on mine then screw the band down and leave it till the spores pop---then take it off---worked real good for me----them spores HAVE to have some air man---if theres any contams in there they're gonna pop too though---but its unavoidable---save ya syringe---if thangs dont work out i might still be able to help you


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Edited by Mr. Wilson (05/04/12 06:48 PM)

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OfflineNeuronicObserver
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Re: Reinoculate if jars do not colonize? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
    #16182995 - 05/04/12 06:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Wilson said:
THERES ya problem---take that shit off---i put a coffee filter on mine then screw the band down and leave it till the spores pop---then take it off---worked real good for me----them spores HAVE to have some air man---if theres any contams in there they're gonna pop too though---but its unavoidable---save ya syringe---if thangs dont work out i might still be able to help you




I would like to try that, but I fear that taking off the lids to install the coffee filters right now would invite contams. I could still take the tape off though right?


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OfflineMr. Wilson
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Re: Reinoculate if jars do not colonize? [Re: NeuronicObserver]
    #16183013 - 05/04/12 06:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

you put the lids on seal side down didnt you--dont matter nyway thats just something i do--but yeah man take that tape off and give em a week--something will SURELY happen


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Edited by Mr. Wilson (05/04/12 07:10 PM)

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OfflineNeuronicObserver
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Re: Reinoculate if jars do not colonize? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
    #16183084 - 05/04/12 07:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Wilson said:
you put the lids on seal side down didnt you--dont matter nyway thats just something i do--but yeah man take that tape off and give em a week--something will SURELY happen




I did put them on seal side down. Is there really be that large of a difference? I'll detape them. And out of curiosity, is it ever a good idea to reinoculate?


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OfflineMr. Wilson
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Re: Reinoculate if jars do not colonize? [Re: NeuronicObserver]
    #16183419 - 05/04/12 08:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

seal side down means that lid is pretty much glued to the glass---youll know what i mean when you birth em---no worries--i had a bit of a fungus gnat problem thats how i learned bout the coffee filters---dont reinnoc though--just do what i said--if you reshoot em youll proly have TOO much water--and i got my doubts on your pc method nyway---trust me just take the tape off-put em up-and leave em alone for a week--TRUST ME---this is the batch i have now---shot 11--birthed 11--no glove box---put in the FC last niteif you got spores galore i would just start another batch


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Edited by Mr. Wilson (05/04/12 08:45 PM)

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InvisibleThayendanegea
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Re: Reinoculate if jars do not colonize? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
    #16183454 - 05/04/12 08:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Go to corner drug store and buy some micro pore tape...cost you like 2 bucks....remove the masking tape and replace it with that....do not take lids off.
As far as re-innoc....I had a jar that was filled with substrate and pc'd but ran out of ms so it sat for 3 months....knocked it up with next batch and did great.


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OfflineMr. Wilson
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Re: Reinoculate if jars do not colonize? [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #16183508 - 05/04/12 09:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

micro dont breathe as good as some think it does---that verm layer is really sufficient in itself---but anykind of tape or anything is gonna hinder gas exchange--even the coffee filter to some extent


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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: Reinoculate if jars do not colonize? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
    #16183851 - 05/04/12 10:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Your PC method sounds fine, obviously those jars are sterile otherwise you would have contams growing.

Did you shake your syringe between each jar? Either way those jars should have shown germination. I would toss them and start over. Never re-inoculate, you have no idea how much water has evaporated or hasn't so shooting them up could throw moisture content off. BRF verm is cheap so just start over.

Also tape is really only used to stop water from getting in during sterilization. I used to use micropore tape and leave it on. It does not stop GE, as my jars are fully colonized between 2-3 weeks and that has been consistent even after removing the tape. Coffee filters will not stop contams whatsoever so using them is futile and opening your jar to put them on is just un-needed risk.Verm is a great contaminant barrier, I have done dozens of grows now and never a contam once.

If your pc has a weight make sure both weights are on and that will be 15psi. What make of PC do you got?

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OfflineMr. Wilson
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Re: Reinoculate if jars do not colonize? [Re: The Influence]
    #16183883 - 05/04/12 10:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

im curious too why its been two weeks and no action--ive heard of slow spores -just not seen em yet--he should have seen something by now--slow spores+no GE=double whammy??--im still kind of a noob too---id like to see the guy get something for his effort--whether boomers or a learning experience


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Edited by Mr. Wilson (05/04/12 10:30 PM)

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