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Dazed Belief
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fan in grow room
#16180555 - 05/04/12 06:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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ok im not trying to flame you its a common thing about people saying it good for fans in a grow room a fan wont do anything to a fc and it will also help to disperse contams around the room
people have this ides that a fan in the room will help with FEA did you guys miss out on your 8th grade science
to explain you have your FC sitting in a room both the room and box have the same pressure the only way to put air into that box is to raise of lower the pressure inside it a fan will not rais or lower pressure it will just blow the air around
why a sgfc of monotub works is because of wholes and the placement its been a rumor the co2 is not heavier then o2 well shut up your dumb co2 and o2 are the same thing except for co2 has a carbon molecule added on thus making it heavier then o2 now when heavier co2 sinks it will go out the bottom whole thus making the pressure in the fc lower then the room then the fc will equal the pressure out by bringer in air from the top wholes
ive had many people disagree with me on this and i dont care if you want to say im wrong then go back to high school and take a science class
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Doc_T
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CO2 does not settle out of room air.
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Dazed Belief
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Re: fan in grow room [Re: Doc_T]
#16180621 - 05/04/12 07:19 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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yes finally someone tries to prove me wrong im more or less trying to get the wrong information off the site before it spreads like a disease
heres a chart to prove it

not trying to flame ya but its a little common sense just like warm and cold air clod air is more dense and heavier then warm less dense air therefore hot air rises and anything that heavier will always fall lower then things lighter then is common physics law
if co2 was not heavier and did not fall lower then all you monotubs and sgfc would not work
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deucedbi9
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Registered: 10/24/06
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Quote:
Dazed Belief said: heavier co2 sinks it will go out the bottom whole thus making the pressure in the fc lower then the room then the fc will equal the pressure out by bringer in air from the top wholes
If this was how the SGFC worked the co2 would be taking with it moisture from the perlite as it 'drops through' it, while at the same time drawing in drier air from the outside, thus drying out the chamber.
The substrates in the FC give off heat which then rises causing a subtle pressure differential which then draws in air through the perlite, and increasing the humidity in the chamber.
A fan running in the same room could counteract this "subtle pressure differential" causing it to be less effective.
As far as I know, no one has said that co2 is not heavier than o2, just that your wrong in your belief as to how the SGFC works.
-------------------- whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
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Doc_T
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Registered: 03/06/09
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OP, you should take AP Chem next year, you'll spend several weeks on gas laws, including gaseous diffusion. You really need Calc 1&2 to get the full benefit, but even with your math skills you should be able to understand.
CO2 does not settle out of room air. In the specific case of mushroom cultivation, it rises. How can that be? The carbon dioxide is created as a waste product. Fungal metabolic activity produces CO2, water, and heat. The waste heat is carried away by the waste gases. The warm carbon dioxide, being warmer than room air (if only marginally) rises, as does any gas which is warmer than the gas surrounding it. Same idea as a hot air balloon, which you probably studied in that 8th grade science class you mentioned.
Also,
Quote:
Dazed Belief said: well shut up your dumb
This made me chuckle.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: fan in grow room [Re: deucedbi9]
#16180683 - 05/04/12 07:44 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
co2 and o2 are the same thing except for co2 has a carbon molecule added on thus making it heavier then o2 now when heavier co2 sinks it will go out the bottom whole thus making the pressure in the fc lower then the room then the fc will equal the pressure out by bringer in air from the top wholes

Wrong. CO2 is not like water which remains separate from air and will drain out the bottom. The CO2 MIXES WITH THE AIR, thus does not 'leak out the bottom'.
Before you tell us to go to science class(I have two engineering degrees-do you?), you should go back to second grade to learn the difference between a whole and a hole. RR
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Doc_T
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Registered: 03/06/09
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I only have one engineering degree. I did the work for a Master's but didn't get a piece of paper that says so. 
But gaseous diffusion is high school stuff, if you are in the smart classes.
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Quote:
Dazed Belief said: co2 and o2 are the same thing except for co2 has a carbon molecule added on thus making it heavier then o2 now when heavier co2 sinks it will go out the bottom whole thus making
Except that air is mostly nitrogen and not oxygen gas.
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Dazed Belief
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Re: fan in grow room [Re: Doc_T]
#16180786 - 05/04/12 08:33 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said: OP, you should take AP Chem next year, you'll spend several weeks on gas laws, including gaseous diffusion. You really need Calc 1&2 to get the full benefit, but even with your math skills you should be able to understandL
funny you say that i was actual a math major in college
engineering degree in what i would like to know? yes i cant spell
but neither of you have explained why co2 will no sink yes it rise from heat but will then still settle lower once cooled of
co2 does mix with air when outside not in a box it will mix from winds moving it all around in a box where air is not moving the co2 will sink lower
-------------------- Enjoy the dazed state of life.
Everything i say or do on this page is all fake.
im just trying to live the life.
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Doc_T
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Registered: 03/06/09
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Bachelor's of Science, Computer Science. Software Engineering. Did the work for a Master's in the same topic.
If CO2 settled out of air, you couldn't sleep on the floor. Death Valley would be uninhabitable. Carbon dioxide does not settle out of air. It stays mixed due to gas diffusion. It rises in the specific case of mushroom cultivation. Once it cools to ambient temp, it says mixed with the air, again because of gas diffusion.
I don't believe you're a math major. I don't believe you could get accepted to college unless your mom filled out the forms for you.
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Dazed Belief
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Re: fan in grow room [Re: Doc_T]
#16180809 - 05/04/12 08:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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ok i see how i could be wrong but then how would a fc work how would it bring in fresh air
-------------------- Enjoy the dazed state of life.
Everything i say or do on this page is all fake.
im just trying to live the life.
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MagicCarpetRide89
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Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 1,126
Loc: usa
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Re: fan in grow room [Re: Doc_T]
#16180811 - 05/04/12 08:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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You guys are too funny. I don't really understand how it "all works", but I know as long as my mushies are growing, I must be doing something right. Right?
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Re: fan in grow room [Re: Doc_T]
#16180957 - 05/04/12 10:03 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said: If CO2 settled out of air, you couldn't sleep on the floor. Death Valley would be uninhabitable.
Funny you should mention that. Small animals shouldn't be left on the floor when playing with large amounts of dry ice, because the C02 can sink to the floor and suffocate them. Due to the cold temp of course. Certain lakes have been known to burp large amounts of CO2 which crawls over the land (due to it's temp I believe) killing whole towns in their sleep.
Gasses certainly can settle based on molecular weight, but that's not what's going on here.
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BjJiggles
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Registered: 03/13/12
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The heat of the substrate causes pressure to elevate in the fc, resulting in it naturally wanting to equalize in my understanding, while the warmer higher pressure air combined with the co2 rises and escapes through the holes in the top, it pulls in air through the bottom of the tub which has moist perlite at a slightly less temperature causing it to be somewhat lower in pressure.
Thus pulling in air up and thru the perlite and mixing with the warmer air and co2 given off from the substrate to repeat the cycle.... At least this makes sense in my head, correct me if i'm wrong, i'm no engineer or chem major, but i did take AP chemistry in high school (8years ago)
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Alan Rockefeller said:No! Do not feed the type collection of a new species to animals!
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Quote:
Dazed Belief said: it will mix from winds moving it all around
So having a fan in the room, moving air or "winds" as you call them, will cause AE. Therefore, a fan in the running in the room, will suffice, as long as the monotub is dialed in properly, for FAE.
You keep stating that this is simple physics, well it is. You're basically telling us that our forced air furnace blowers don't circulate air in our houses.
Also, we know you can't spell. You misspelled "FAE" in the OP.
Pics speak a thousand words: This set up (notice the small desk fan pointing at the tubs):
  Equals this:
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      How I Do EVERYTHING     
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
StygianKnight said: dry ice, .... Due to the cold temp of course.
Temperature affects gas density. It's part of this "gas law" stuff I keep talking about. It's not about molecular weight, that's completely irrelevant to gas density.
Quote:
StygianKnight said: Gasses certainly can settle based on molecular weight, but that's not what's going on here.
Certainly can NOT, you mean. Imagine you had a tub of air, calm still air separated from outside winds and currents. Would it settle out in layers? No, not at any temperature above absolute zero. Why? Because of gaseous diffusion.
Radon gas is heavier than air. Even heavier than carbon dioxide. But it diffuses up from the ground and gets into basements. It's not done yet. The radon does not sit in the bottom of the basement, it diffuses into room air due to... what? Class? Anybody? That's right, gaseous diffusion.
Once in the home's air, it's trapped to an extent. The walls and doors prevent further diffusion to outside air. Best defense against radon is to open a window. Not to sweep the basement.
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Edited by Doc_T (05/04/12 11:48 AM)
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StygianKnight
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Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Re: fan in grow room [Re: Doc_T]
#16181367 - 05/04/12 11:56 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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You're right, I chose my words poorly. Sure overtime Diffusion happens, but in still enough conditions when gas is first released it will layer based on weight, although good luck getting it to relayer once you mix it up. This can be seen with gasses like Propane which likes to stay at floor level, or Chlorine Which is even colored so you can watch it(not that anyone should play with Chlorine for fun). You can even watch the top layer slowly wisp away.
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gref
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Registered: 01/28/10
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This is why I love the Shroomery cultivation forums so much. We have intelligent people that quickly correct misinformation and shutdown babbling idiots.
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
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Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
StygianKnight said: You're right, I chose my words poorly. Sure overtime Diffusion happens, but in still enough conditions when gas is first released it will layer based on weight, although good luck getting it to relayer once you mix it up. This can be seen with gasses like Propane which likes to stay at floor level, or Chlorine Which is even colored so you can watch it(not that anyone should play with Chlorine for fun). You can even watch the top layer slowly wisp away.
You're talking about temperature differences though, not molecular weight differences. Same exact thing would happen with liquid oxygen or liquid nitrogen or even liquid helium. It'll settle because it's cold, then diffuse as it warms to ambient temp.
CO2 does not settle out of air. Anybody who thinks it does, go collect a tray of it and post pics.
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



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Re: fan in grow room [Re: Doc_T]
#16181981 - 05/04/12 02:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Shit...I just threw out the whole tub of CO2 that I let separate from the air.
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING     
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
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Go sweep it back up into the tub. It's still all over your floor endangering your pets!
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Obsesshroom


Registered: 11/05/11
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Loc: Canada
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@ this thread
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

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Posts: 2,717
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Re: fan in grow room [Re: Doc_T]
#16182064 - 05/04/12 02:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said:You're talking about temperature differences though, not molecular weight differences. ... CO2 does not settle out of air. Anybody who thinks it does, go collect a tray of it and post pics. 
It should be noted I never said you could "collect a tray of it" and was posting a general comment not defending the inaccurate theory of the OP.
I'm pretty sure I've seen room temperature gasses layered, although it could have been from slight temp differences. This is the real world, diffusion doesn't happen instantly, you can trick it for a bit, but of course it will always win out.
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Doc_T
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Pretty sure you haven't seen ordinary atmospheric gasses layered like that. Mythbusters did it once some sort of exotic stuff in an aquarium, I forget what exactly.
Wasn't aiming the tray comment at you specifically. But if you can collect a tray of CO2 from room air, I'll mail you a dollar.
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RogerRabbit
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Quote:
StygianKnight said:
Certain lakes have been known to burp large amounts of CO2 which crawls over the land (due to it's temp I believe) killing whole towns in their sleep.
Gasses certainly can settle based on molecular weight, but that's not what's going on here.
No, that would be H2S, not CO2.
When I was working in Prudhoe bay in the 1980s, I once farted after a meal of corned beef and cabbage, setting off the hydrogen sulfide detectors, which caused an entire facility to be evacuated.  RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
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"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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BjJiggles
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Did you collect it in a tray for later use once it sank back to the bottom of the room? Lol
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Alan Rockefeller said:No! Do not feed the type collection of a new species to animals!
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Obsesshroom


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 355
Loc: Canada
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Ive heard of evacuating the room after someone farts, but the whole facility.. nice one RR
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
No, that would be H2S, not CO2.
When I was working in Prudhoe bay in the 1980s, I once farted after a meal of corned beef and cabbage, setting off the hydrogen sulfide detectors, which caused an entire facility to be evacuated.  RR
Ha! Lakes can burp CO2 as well.
Edited by StygianKnight (05/04/12 11:11 PM)
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