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InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Where does it end?
    #1617310 - 06/07/03 11:29 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yet more info on WMD intelligence:

First from the Sunday Herald:

Revealed: the secret cabal which spun for Blair


Investigation: By Neil Mackay


BRITAIN ran a covert 'dirty tricks' operation designed specifically to produce misleading intelligence that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction to give the UK a justifiable excuse to wage war on Iraq.

Operation Rockingham, established by the Defence Intelligence Staff within the Ministry of Defence in 1991, was set up to 'cherry-pick' intelligence proving an active Iraqi WMD programme and to ignore and quash intelligence which indicated that Saddam's stockpiles had been destroyed or wound down.

The existence of Operation Rockingham has been confirmed by Scott Ritter, the former UN chief weapons inspector, and a US military intelligence officer. He knew members of the Operation Rockingham team and described the unit as 'dangerous', but insisted they were not 'rogue agents' acting without government backing. 'This policy was coming from the very highest levels,' he added.

'Rockingham was spinning reports and emphasising reports that showed non-compliance (by Iraq with UN inspections) and quashing those which showed compliance. It was cherry-picking intelligence.'

Ritter and other intelligence sources say Operation Rockingham and MI6 were supplying skewed information to the Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) which, Tony Blair has told the Commons, was behind the intelligence dossiers that the government published to convince the parliament and the people of the necessity of war against Iraq. Sources in both the British and US intelligence community are now equating the JIC with the Office of Special Plans (OSP) in the US Pentagon. The OSP was set up by Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to gather intelligence which would prove the case for war. In a staggering attack on the OSP, former CIA officer Larry Johnson told the Sunday Herald the OSP was 'dangerous for US national security and a threat to world peace', adding that it 'lied and manipulated intelligence to further its agenda of removing Saddam'.

He added: 'It's a group of ideologues with pre-determined notions of truth and reality. They take bits of intelligence to support their agenda and ignore anything contrary. They should be eliminated.'

Johnson said that to describe Saddam as an 'imminent threat' to the West was 'laughable and idiotic'. He said many CIA officers were in 'great distress' over the way intelligence had been treated. 'We've entered the world of George Orwell,' Johnson added. 'I'm disgusted. The truth has to be told. We can't allow our leaders to use bogus information to justify war.'

Many in British intelligence believe the planned parliamentary inquiry by MPs on the Intelligence and Security Committee will pass the blame for the use of selective intelligence to the JIC, which includes senior intelligence figures .

Intelligence sources say this would be unfair as they claim the JIC was following political instructions. Blair has been under sustained criticism following allegations that intelligence on the threat from Iraq was 'sexed up' to make it more appealing to the public.

The rebel Labour MP and Father of the House, Tam Dalyell, said he would raise the Sunday Herald's investigation into Operation Rockingham in the Commons on Thursday and demand an explanation from the government about selective intelligence. Ritter has also offered to give evidence to parliament.

Both the MoD and Downing Street refused to comment on Ritter's allegations about Operation Rockingham, saying they did not make statements on intelligence matters.

British and American intelligence analysts have also come forward to dispute claims made by President Bush that two military trailers found in Iraq were bio-weapons labs.

08 June 2003

-----------------------------------------
This one from the Observer (emphasis mine).

No 10 regret on war dossier

Kamal Ahmed and Gaby Hinsliff
Sunday June 8, 2003
The Observer

Downing Street is to express regret about the fundamental flaws in the second 'dodgy dossier' on Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction.

Senior Whitehall sources told the Observer that the officials who will be called before the Intelligence and Security Committee inquiry into the weapons issue will say that the second dossier on Saddam's history of deception undermined public trust in government information.

If Blair is questioned on the issue, he will concede that mistakes were made.

Number 10 officials now admit that the second dossier, which was largely culled from a 13-year-old thesis by a Californian PhD student, is damaging the Government's case for war against Iraq.

The dossier was published last February to coincide with Blair's 'war summit' with President George Bush in Washington. A week later it was revealed to be a mish-mash of intelligence reports, student work and publicly available briefings by Jane's Intelligence Review . None of the document acknowledged the sources, leaving the impression that it was all based on fresh intelligence.

One government figure admitted that it was used to fill a 'political vacuum' ahead of Colin Powell's presentation on the weapons to the United Nations Security Council.

Officials hope that admitting errors over the second dossier will strengthen their case on the first dossier, published last September which has been the subject of allegations that it was 'sexed up' to make a stronger case for war.

Although officials will admit that there are some 'serious questions' about claims in the first dossier that Saddam was trying to procure nuclear material from Niger - the claims were based on crudely forged documents - they will say that Number 10 relied on security analysis.

The committee inquiry will be given the original Joint Intelligence Committee report on Iraqi weapons which was wholly written by the security services so that it can be compared with the dossier published by Downing Street.

Number 10 will tell the inquiry that the JIC assessment was 're-ordered' and some sections 'slightly rewritten'. It will say that every fact that appeared in the first dossier also appeared in the JIC assessment.

'Some of the structure might have been changed, some of the writing, but every single fact that appears in the dossier is taken direct from the JIC assessment,' a Number 10 official said.

'What some of us find remarkable is that you have Labour MPs believing anonymous briefings from the security services over the word of the Prime Minister and the position of the Government. Can you imagine saying the same thing 20 years ago?'

A growing number of government figures are becoming convinced the security services have been involved in a pincer movement against Downing Street. In an attempt to cover-up their own failures, brought into sharp focus by the failure to uncover any evidence of the weapons since the war, they briefed that the politicians tried to overplay what they were told.

One senior government source said that John Reid, the Leader of the House of Commons, was wrong to claim that it was 'rogue elements' in the security services behind the briefings.

Number 10 now believes that it was a far more concerted attempt to undermine Downing Street's position and keep the intelligence services out of the firing line.

Meanwhile, Robin Cook was last night accused by a senior minister of 'pomposity' over Iraq. Energy minister Brian Wilson, who previously worked with Cook in the Foreign Office, tore into his former boss's criticisms of the war, saying the debate had become 'surreal'.

Cook had had access to 'overwhelming evidence' of Saddam Hussein's mission to acquire weapons of mass destruction when he was Foreign Secretary, Wilson said, adding pointedly: 'I have no idea why Robin should believe that since he ceased to be Foreign Secretary, Saddam Hussein had given up on WMD.'
--------------------------------------



How much more can they spin? This line got me the most:
"Officials hope that admitting errors over the second dossier will strengthen their case on the first dossier"

So it seems that even though they admit now that they pretty much fabricated the second dossier, they appear to think that people will now believe them on the first one? It's even more laughable if the first story has any truth to it. Can you imagine it?

"Yes, we have been cherry-picking information on Saddam for over 10 years, yes we released a dossier composed entirely of plaguarised material (the first one might not be accurate either), yes we may have 'spun' these reports too, and no we haven't found a single WMD yet.....but the war was justified! We just know he had the weapons, would your government lie to you?"


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Posts: 29,756
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Re: Where does it end? [Re: Edame]
    #1617412 - 06/08/03 01:07 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

No matter how many times they lie, I just keep believing them again and again.




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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 29 days
Re: Where does it end? [Re: Edame]
    #1617796 - 06/08/03 07:23 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Hopefully these kinds of reports will make it harder for them to use shoddy intelligence to justify any future "liberations" they might be planning. Of course, once this has all blown over they may just put more effort into fabricating the lies they use as justification.
PEACE


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleEdame
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Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: Where does it end? [Re: GazzBut]
    #1617807 - 06/08/03 07:35 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I just don't get it at all. I mean even if there is an indepenent inquiry here in the UK, it probably wouldn't even change anything. More than likely it would say that mistakes were made and the gov. would say "won't happen again" and that'll be the end of it.

I dunno, maybe I'm just not reading enough viewpoints, all I see are spineless MP's without the guts to accuse Blair of being a liar who sent our troops off to war for no good reason. Maybe there are MPs baying for Blair's head on a stick somewhere, but they certainly aren't getting any media attention.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Offlinemike
iHugTrees

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 171
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Where does it end? [Re: Edame]
    #1618754 - 06/08/03 06:22 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

man, it wont ever end, untill we're off the boards and on the street. that is a strong feeling.

this has been going on for decades, and it is becomming more and more obvious that big brother is plunging deeper and deeper into deceit, betrayl, and abuse of power.

all i want to do is get across the urgency i feel, alot of shit is comming to a boil, and it is just about time for it to spill over. blood bath, or rebirth...which will we produce.


--------------------
Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy.
-Albert Einstein


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OfflineSolo
enthusiast
Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 257
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Where does it end? [Re: mike]
    #1618989 - 06/08/03 08:44 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe we should classify Saddam as mentally ill and put him in a psych hospital here and give him SSI.


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: Where does it end? [Re: Solo]
    #1619269 - 06/08/03 11:08 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

saddam is probably menatally ill and did at some time belong in mental hospital. when we take away ssi and demonize the mentally ill then they turn into the saddam husseins of the world.


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,720
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Where does it end? [Re: 1stimer]
    #1619907 - 06/09/03 04:59 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

saddam is probably menatally ill and did at some time belong in mental hospital. when we take away ssi and demonize the mentally ill then they turn into the saddam husseins of the world.



So if we take away some old geezer or geezerettes SSI they'll kill, torture and jail thousands? They'll loot billions from their country? They'll attack neighboring countries?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 months, 7 days
Re: Where does it end? [Re: 1stimer]
    #1620488 - 06/09/03 01:20 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Saddam wasn't mentally ill, you goof.

He was perfectly competant. He was likely a psychopath, meaning his mental resources functioned perfectly, he just cares about personal gain and not about the lives of others.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Where does it end? [Re: Phluck]
    #1620547 - 06/09/03 02:06 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I thought psychosis was a form of mental illness.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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