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Amazon Shop for: Terrence McKenna

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OfflineDogomush
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Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong...
    #1617211 - 06/07/03 10:14 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

When I first read Terrence Mckenna's books I thought his whole I Ching thing was really cool. The most intrigueing part of it all was that the I Ching, when fiddled with and graphed and then layered over a calendar it produced the end date of December 21 2012. This lining up exactly with the end of the Mayan Calendar made his whole theory carry some weight.

I've been thinking about Terrence's Timewave zero thing and its origins within the I Ching. What's been getting to me is that there's no reason for the I Ching to have dates attached to it. All it is is a bunch of broken and solid lines.

He discovered that the 384 lines in the 64 hexagram sequence of the I Ching lined up with the amount of days in thirteen lunar cycles (383.89). This led him to conclude that there was a kind of calendar within the sequencing of the I Ching. Sounds like dubious speculation, let's check it out:

384 days x 64 (number of hexagrams) = 6 sunspot cycles (67 years plus 104,25 days)

67 years plus 104.25 days x 64 = 2 zodiacal ages

and then it goes on blah blah blah some things line up.. not perfectly, but almost. So, he comes up with some graphs, and there's an endpoint on the graphs. This is dec 21 2012.

How does he decide on the endpoint being 2012? Well, because if you assign the end date 2012 then the 4.2 years from 1986 - 1990 look similiar on the graph as the years 340 - 609. Well, there's some solid shit to base a huge theory on (NOT). He claims that afterwards he was surprised to discover that the enddate on the mayan calendar is the same date. I find it hard to believe that terrence, king of weird shit, wouldn't know the most rudimentary facts about the mayans theories of time, especially since he was developing his own theory of time and was going to other cultures theories to help him on his way. He checked out the I Ching as a model of time (even though it's not a calendar or anything) but he didn't check out the most time-crazy of all the planet's civilizations? doesn't seem too likely.

Terrence's whole 2012 enddate thing that people are speculating endlessly on as the date of the apocalypse was just totally pulled out of a hat. There is nothing in the ancient texts of the I Ching about an "end date." According to the philosophy of the I Ching, there is no end. That's the whole point. Terrence took the 64 hexagrams and put them on a line and said "look they start here and end there." But that's not how the I Ching works. It is not a graphable road map of the future. There is a sequence, but there is no end. It's in constant flux. This line in the hexagram is reverting to this, and then this one reverts to that and the outcome of the situation is this and its influenced by the mutual hexagram which is this one which has an alternating line so it becomes this which in turn is influenced by its mutual hexagram and so on and so on.

Terrence says the I Ching is a kind of calendar. The number 64 would have been invented then because it serves the purpose of the calendar, but that's not it. 64 is there because that is 8 x 8. 8 original 3 lined gua produce 64 hexagrams when all combinations are exhausted. There are 8 original gua because as archeology has shown, a cow skull in ancient china burned with a bronze tool cracks 8 ways. This is how they used to divine before they started writing things down and doing the whole I Ching.


Well, I don't know how well I've layed this post out, if you need clarification, ask.

I know I don't have the right to do this, but just to get you moving on trying to prove me wrong I declare the official stance of the shroomery's S&P forum to be that Terrence's end of time whatever you call it theory is bunk until shown otherwise. 2012 is a mayan thing, not an I Ching thing. I'm afraid we don't understand the mayans, and although lots of silly people like to write books speculating about it the truth is just because the mayans didn't bother writing down their calendar past 2012 doesn't mean we will invent a time machine and fly around in the new dimension. Sorry guys, but that's the official stance of this forum.




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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong... [Re: Dogomush]
    #1617268 - 06/07/03 10:42 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Heh... I think his theory was less from the I-Ching and more from the Other whispering in his vulnerable little ears.

Who knows whats going to happen? I don't think anyone does. Whatever plan there is, it's incomprehensible to the human mind. All I know is what I feel in the MOMENT, and what I'm feeling right now is that... This world's going through an intense build up of energy that will eventually lead into some sort of crescendo, or a death/rebirth. Whether or not we will exist in our present form afterwards remains to be seen.


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InvisibleTeragon
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Re: Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong... [Re: Dogomush]
    #1617351 - 06/08/03 12:16 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Hmm...I-Ching= 64 hexagrams.

I never thought about this but there are 64 genetic codon sequences, that is universal to all life as we know it. Interesting. :grin: 


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong... [Re: Teragon]
    #1617382 - 06/08/03 12:49 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

ah that's it.. I know there are people talking about connections between the I Ching and DNA, but I wasn't sure what it could be.. I guess that's it. Part of it, anyway.

Heh... I think his theory was less from the I-Ching and more from the Other whispering in his vulnerable little ears.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. He talks a lot about the I Ching but there's nothing hardcoded in the sequence of the I Ching that supports a 2012 cataclysm. He came up with a random date and then mucked around with the I Ching to make it seem like he was on to something.

As for the blather up there about sensing the building of energy in the world and how it's all going to come to a head soon and bring about a rebirth... Well, there's a really stupid man bringing up religious bible stuff and he's in command of the most powerful nation on the planet. He's got a few wars going that are impossible to win, and there are deadly biochemical and nuclear weapons scattered all across the planet. The global transportation system is such that a deadly plague could zip around the planet before anybody stopped it faster than ever before in the history of mankind. OBVIOUSLY chances are good cataclysmic events are going to occur in the next few years, but I'm positive there will not be any single event on dec 21st 2012 that will have us all saying "This is what Terence was talking about!"

I'm going to have to ask everybody who can "sense" the end of history approaching to allow for the possibility that their intuition is heavily influenced by the carnage and dramatic (therefore ratings boosting) mass media being broadcast to everybody's living room. And if you don't watch TV, well, you still live in a climate where other people do and the fear spreads through other means. Environmentalists need to convince people that we have just about made the planet uninhabitable to rally people behind their cause. Politicians need to convince the populous that another terrorrist attack looms or the opposition will jump at the opportunity to convince the public of the danger and then offer safety and people will vote for them.

But the truth is, it's a beautiful summer day, and I've only ever seen 2 dead bodies in real life. I'm experiencing world peace right now. I can go out, work a little, make some money, and live with no fear of tanks ripping down the road and shooting me in the face. Basically, everything is perfect.

Of course, the situation I mentioned with everybody in a media-induced craze could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.. get everybody scared, and then they go nuts and fuck everything up. I don't know.



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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong... [Re: Dogomush]
    #1617648 - 06/08/03 03:41 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

But the truth is, it's a beautiful summer day, and I've only ever seen 2 dead bodies in real life. I'm experiencing world peace right now. I can go out, work a little, make some money, and live with no fear of tanks ripping down the road and shooting me in the face. Basically, everything is perfect.



Wow, sounds like whatever country you live in is Civilized all right. Did it occur to you that there are other areas in the world that are suffering from our 'capitilization' on the world's resources? In many parts of the world, the Apocolypse IS at hand. Somehow, I've gotten the crazy notion that these problems will have long-term global consequences... Somehow I've got the idea that the entire planet exists on a chain or cycle that keeps it thriving; and when some parts of the chain or cycle get destroyed... well it fucks up the entire system.

At it's current pace, western civilization is doomed. That's just a plain and simple fact. We're pissing into the bowl that we're drinking from.
We are consuming more than we are creating. It's throwing the world out of balance.

That's just my opinion, anyway...  :cool: 


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong... [Re: Adamist]
    #1617666 - 06/08/03 03:59 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"Heh... I think his theory was less from the I-Ching and more from the Other whispering in his vulnerable little ears."

on his interview with Art Bell, part two of the 1997 one ( http://mckenna.psychedelic-library.org near the bottom.. a few places in the first half hour ) he talks about how imagination may be running the show -

"its always about a set of defined elements.. whether they're hexagrams, cards, stones.. and then a randomizing of them.. either a shaking or a tossing or a choosing or something like that and then out of the human imagination comes associative 'projections' which are always strangely 'right on the money.' this indicates to me that there is a resonance between the psyche and the world that is invisible to the ego, and can only be 'coaxed' into an observational state by tricking the ego through a kind of random process like cards or dice"

heh there's plenty of cool stuff in that interview - I still think he was "crazy" though :wink: - look at Vegas..


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Edited by Strumpling (06/08/03 04:00 AM)


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong... [Re: Dogomush]
    #1617781 - 06/08/03 06:46 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

when you do as many drugs as Mckenna has, you try to pull together disparate pieces of information from various esoteric sources to create a "big picture" that does not exist. he was a confused man who had a knack for putting nonsense into words. and that is the official stance of the shroomery's S&P forum.



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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong... [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1617800 - 06/08/03 07:28 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

ROTFLMAO!


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong... [Re: GazzBut]
    #1617982 - 06/08/03 11:23 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

At it's current pace, western civilization is doomed. That's just a plain and simple fact. We're pissing into the bowl that we're drinking from.

Yes, I'm aware. The point I was trying to make in that paragraph of mine you're responding to is that there are different points of view in the world, and if I didn't have mass media spilling into my reality I wouldn't be predicting an apocalypse at all. The news brings the apocalypse to my living room, but I have no reason other than that to think there are any problems in the world. That's all I'm saying.


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong... [Re: Dogomush]
    #1618139 - 06/08/03 12:49 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

You forgot to mention that his Timewave Zero theory and the graphs seem to pinpoint the dates of habit and novelty throughout history, or maybe it's all just a bunch of huge coincidences.


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InvisibleArmFromTheAbyss
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Re: Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong... [Re: Dogomush]
    #1618407 - 06/08/03 03:32 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


I'm going to have to ask everybody who can "sense" the end of history approaching to allow for the possibility that their intuition is heavily influenced by the carnage and dramatic (therefore ratings boosting) mass media being broadcast to everybody's living room.




I would say I have a "sense" that something big is going to happen. Maybe not the end. Possibly evolution.

Given, a certain percentage of people base their beliefs on uncirumstantail schemas or heresay. That's nothing new and even includes some people with the sense. But I feel that way because I see it in more and more people nowadays. I see it in the eyes of people I know and sometimes strangers or people I interact with in daily life. It seems as if more and more people are opening their eyes. This is just from my point of view.

Maybe people are getting the "sense" because WE are the ones that will see this big thing. Not necessarily 2012 but certainly within our life times.

Capitalism with privatization and rigged democracy can't last THIS long can it?

Btw that was an intelligent observation. Terrance is confused.


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InvisibleClean
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Re: Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong... [Re: ArmFromTheAbyss]
    #1618550 - 06/08/03 04:59 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I would say I have a "sense" that something big is going to happen. Maybe not the end. Possibly evolution.





to clarify...
do you mean a rapid jump in evolution?
because evolution is going on right now... this thread could be considered evolution  :smile: 


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
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Re: Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong... [Re: Dogomush]
    #1618565 - 06/08/03 05:08 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

if I didn't have mass media spilling into my reality I wouldn't be predicting an apocalypse at all.

yeah, imagine if we werent constantly told that pollution is destroying the world, and nuclar war is going to kill us all.

there would be much less consumer apathy/cynicism, which would probably lead to less pollution. Meaning: when a person is told that the world is going to shit, he isnt compelled to save it, but rather, he says "fuck it, paaaarty time".


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong... [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1618573 - 06/08/03 05:11 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know about that though man - it seems like the media can indeed help with the situation by reminding people more often that they need to take care of the Earth.


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InvisibleClean
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Re: Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong... [Re: Strumpling]
    #1618589 - 06/08/03 05:16 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

but more often than not any guilt someone feels about not "taking care of the earth" because they watched a 3 minute news report will be quickly forgotten once the show after the "News" comes on. :wink:


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InvisibleArmFromTheAbyss
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Re: Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong... [Re: Clean]
    #1618601 - 06/08/03 05:21 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Yes we are evolving right now. By big thing I mean something big enough that it will change our normal way of life. We'll get past all this bullshit. To know the best, you must first go through the worst.

Or, we could just die off. It's up to us...


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OfflineAislingGheal
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Re: Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong.. [Re: ArmFromTheAbyss]
    #1618702 - 06/08/03 06:06 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)


I don't get the impression that McKenna was at all confused or messed up, as a matter of fact he was a keen observer in my opinion. He always said the 2012 theory was just a model, a possibility, to be superceded when a better model comes along. The particulars are debatable but the thrust of his theory, to me, is sound. But to each his own, we will all know in time if he was insightful or not, he at least had theories and the courage to lay them out for everyone.


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OfflineMetaShroom
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Re: Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong.. [Re: AislingGheal]
    #1618782 - 06/08/03 06:32 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

McKenna did make a big leap from "aha! there are patterns in the I Ching relating to natural plenetary cycles" to "this must mean it encodes the details of a timewave" I've always thought of 2012 as an intersting date though. The sun eclipses the galactic centre at the 'end date' of Dec 21 so there could be some pranic energy influx or some consciousness evolutionary cycle stuff. Also i've thought it could be the date when we discover time travel (thats meant to be the last discovery of mankind according to gnostic teachings) That would make sense because people could only time travel back from the future to after the date when it was discovered, so after 2012 we might get a huge influx of future people and things would go well weird.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong.. [Re: AislingGheal]
    #1618831 - 06/08/03 06:54 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

there are plenty of wackos who put out theories, I don't think that's particularly courageous. he just doesn't know better. and if you take away the specifics, like the I Ching and the Mayan calendar, what exactly is the thrust of his theory? that there will be change? well duh!

I don't think the I Ching or the Mayans would want to be associated with Mckenna. these things are WAY beyond Mckenna's little theories.



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OfflineMetaShroom
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Re: Mckenna got the whole 2012/I Ching thing totally wrong.. [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1618851 - 06/08/03 07:05 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Theres a lot more to his theory than that, it is inspiring for a start, and he uses it to put forward some great ideas, like evolution towards an attractor or concrescence. Although the mechanics of the actual theory itself may be complete rubbish, thats not the only thing that can be taken from it.


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Amazon Shop for: Terrence McKenna

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