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 duff monkey
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 Re: Lepista nuda  [Re: Javadog]
#16152805 - 04/28/12 08:10 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have a small patch of Blewit here in So Cal that I just picked and printed. Did not give me a lot of spores. Was reading this thread hoping to glean some info about cultivating. Sounds like a challenge. Nice work guys!
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Terry M
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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
#16160195 - 04/30/12 12:56 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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So I'm thinking that this could be cased now:
 
It has been growing in the bag for about 6 weeks at 70 degrees F. I would case it with an inch of 40% garden store topsoil which I have hanging around and 60% Canadian sphagnum peat, buffered with calcium carbonate. I have a mini-greenhouse which is cooled to a constant 59 degrees F.
Sound like it's worth a shot? Any suggestions?
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Liberté, égalité, humidité.
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 atricoz
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Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 308
Loc: Italy 
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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
#16160237 - 04/30/12 01:06 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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What kind of substrate is that? It look like sawdust. If I'm right, maybe it could be a good think to use it as spawn for a better substrate (i'd prepare one with mostly peat, dry leaves, straw and a little of manure). Seems like L.nuda likes poorer substrates than used with A.bisporus.
59F seems to be a good temperature for fruiting(at least, in theory). I guess a cold shocking would be benefical, too.
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Terry M
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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
#16160373 - 04/30/12 01:28 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
atricoz said:
What kind of substrate is that? It look like sawdust. If I'm right, maybe it could be a good think to use it as spawn for a better substrate (i'd prepare one with mostly peat, dry leaves, straw and a little of manure). Seems like L.nuda likes poorer substrates than used with A.bisporus.
59F seems to be a good temperature for fruiting(at least, in theory). I guess a cold shocking would be benefical, too.
Yes, it is sawdust and bran. Interesting idea! Could I sterilize bags of the substrate you recommend, or just Pasteurize them? I'm suspecting they should be Pasteurized. Any composting required? I've never grown Agaricus so I've not dealt with this (to me) intimidating process.
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Liberté, égalité, humidité.
Edited by Terry M (04/30/12 01:53 PM)
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Javadog
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Posts: 7,385
Loc: USA 
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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
#16160520 - 04/30/12 02:00 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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We are in the same place Terry. I am really just getting going
with composted subs. I did make my first straw compost and am
trying some King Stropharia on it. (it seems too wet and is going
slowly, but is it also not contaminating)
The upside is that you can do alot with that much "super" spawn.
I have L.n. on grains, and not the contam I started off with (grazzi Atricoz)
so I hope to be in the same place in just a bit.
Good luck,
JD
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Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes
Myco-tek.org
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atricoz
O.o
Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 308
Loc: Italy
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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
#16160556 - 04/30/12 02:07 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Terry M said:
Yes, it is sawdust and bran. Interesting idea! Could I sterilize bags of the substrate you recommend, or just Pasteurize them? I'm suspecting they should be Pasteurized. Any composting required? I've never grown Agaricus so I've not dealt with this (to me) intimidating process.
Pasteurization will work well, sterilization is not recommended for this species (as far as I read). A composting is highly recommended, too.
By the way, how do you cool down your greenhouse?
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Terry M
Stranger in a Strange Land
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Posts: 1,502
Loc: Rhode Island
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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
#16160678 - 04/30/12 02:29 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Rats, I guess I'll have to learn how to compost. All that phase 1 and phase 2 stuff!
I cool my mini-greenhouse with a Royal Sovereign 9,000 BTU stand-alone portable air conditioner which sits inside. There is a flexible duct that conducts the warmer air out of the greenhouse. The air conditioner has a lowest setting of 59 degrees F. And I also have a Zoo Med HygroTherm Humidity and Temperature Controller used to control humidity only with a Zoo Med Reptile Fogger. With this, I can maintain the humidity at up to 95%.
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Liberté, égalité, humidité.
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Terry M
Stranger in a Strange Land
Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 1,502
Loc: Rhode Island
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
#16160992 - 04/30/12 03:34 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hey, great JD!
JD and atricoz, I've got all the ingredients for atricoz's compost. Can this be used for other compost-loving mushrooms, like Agaricus and Coprinus? I might as well make a substantial pile of it since I'm going to the trouble. What about proportions of the ingredients? I can do anything you guys recommend. Even a guess at proportions would be appreciated, as I am a complete newbie on this.
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Liberté, égalité, humidité.
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Javadog
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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
#16161185 - 04/30/12 04:12 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hey Terry,
Do you have a copy of the older Stamets book "The Mushroom Cultivator"?
It goes into the various composting techniques. (yes, ugh, I and II)
I can say that I used straw and added manure and a bit of nitrogen
rich fertilizer, as my straw was not the urine loaded stall muck that
Stamets refers to and my manure was very aged and not likely to have
the N desired.
One thing that I cannot address, and that pertains to your question,
is whether this species needs/wants a compost sub just for the
various nutrient balances, or whether it also needs the "living
organisms" to stimulate fruiting. This would answer the pasteurization
vs. sterilization issue.
When I turned my pile the first time, I found the desired ammonia
smell, but not so much on subsequent turns. I am not sure how it
turned out and am going to just try it out. The truth will tell.
Good luck,
JD
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Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes
Myco-tek.org
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Terry M
Stranger in a Strange Land
Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 1,502
Loc: Rhode Island
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
#16161389 - 04/30/12 04:58 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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JD: Yes, have The Mushroom Cultivator. Compost will be my bedtime reading tonight. 
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Liberté, égalité, humidité.
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atricoz
O.o
Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 308
Loc: Italy
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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
#16164168 - 05/01/12 05:45 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Terry M said:
Can this be used for other compost-loving mushrooms, like Agaricus and Coprinus?
Stamets talks about blewit cultivation on "The Mushroom Cultivator", saying that could be used about the same compost formula (horse manure-based). I used a similar formula for my experiment (mostly cow manure), and colonization occured, but I noticed that mycelium liked the casing layer far more than the substrate itself.
I read some information on some french sites about L.nuda cultivation, since they are the only one cultivating it industrially. For instance, here they say that substrate is about 60% peat and 40% soil. Pretty poorer for the nitrogen-rich used for A.bisporus.
So, probably you could use it also for other species, but you'll have poorer yields.
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Terry M
Stranger in a Strange Land
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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
#16164186 - 05/01/12 05:56 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
atricoz said:
I read some information on some french sites about L.nuda cultivation, since they are the only one cultivating it industrially. For instance, here they say that substrate is about 60% peat and 40% soil. Pretty poorer for the nitrogen-rich used for A.bisporus.
So, probably you could use it also for other species, but you'll have poorer yields.
Looks to me like the French site was talking about the peat and soil mixture for the casing layer, not the substrate. From my little experience with casing, it seems like this can be critical to fruiting, more so than the substrate itself.
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Liberté, égalité, humidité.
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Javadog
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Posts: 7,385
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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
#16164545 - 05/01/12 08:50 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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This might also tend to suggest that a sterilized sub with a pasteurized
casing layer will work.
This is what I will do, along with other options, as I proceed.
I intend to have several attempts going to allow for variation.
Good stuff!
JD
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Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes
Myco-tek.org
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atricoz
O.o
Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 308
Loc: Italy
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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
#16164891 - 05/01/12 10:35 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Terry M said:
Looks to me like the French site was talking about the peat and soil mixture for the casing layer, not the substrate. From my little experience with casing, it seems like this can be critical to fruiting, more so than the substrate itself.
oops, sorry, seems like I should take some new lessons of french 
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duff monkey
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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
#16164934 - 05/01/12 10:45 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Would it help to replicate the natural growing environment? Maybe use some of the soil for substrate and case with conifer duff.
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Terry M
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Registered: 06/18/10
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I'd like to try composting, but I don't have anywhere near the materials for the 6-foot wide pile which Stamets specifies for both long composting and short composting phase I. In fact, I've only got 25 pounds of horse manure, plus the proportional amounts of cottonseed meal and gypsum.
Does anybody think the following trick would work?
Put the manure and cottonseed meal into a laundry basket. Set one of my mini-greenhouses to heat up to 110 degrees F, which is the temperature of the outermost composting zone (zone 1). Set up a reasonably powerful fan inside for good ventilation. Follow the directions for short composting phase I, adding the gypsum when specified. Phase II is basically aerobic pasteurization with a long cool-down period, and I think I could improvise something for this small an amount of sub.
Whether this works is wholly dependent on whether or not the outer temperature, set for zone 1, will induce microbial activity such that there will be hotter inner zones. This won't work if the inner temperature gradient for composting is determined strictly by the scale and compression of the material. I don't know enough about the temperature generation mechanism to know.
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Liberté, égalité, humidité.
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Javadog
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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
#16167199 - 05/01/12 06:13 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hey Terry,
I am new to composting too, so lets hope that Lipa or a cultivator
with similar composting experience chimes in...but I think that your
laundry basket could work.
I am reminded of where a steel drum, with holes cut all over it,
can be rolled about the yard to do the required mixing.
I think that you ought to be able to put it outside and let the
micro-organisms do the heating.
Are you able, or desiring, to use straw? I have not heard of meal
being used in composting (but I have heard that most anything can
be used, so it must be possible)
There is a nutrient computation (C to N) that is beyond me at this
point, but that could be used to tell if your mix is appropriate.
If no one chimes in, then I say give it a go.
Good luck,
JD
--------------------
Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes
Myco-tek.org
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Terry M
Stranger in a Strange Land
Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 1,502
Loc: Rhode Island
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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
#16167372 - 05/01/12 06:51 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hi JD,
Yes, I've read about the carbon to nitrogen ratio being important. That's why I'm sticking with one of the two proven compost recipes from TMC. One has horse manure, and the other has straw. The horse manure recipe uses cottonseed meal, which I have on hand. The straw recipe used chicken manure, which I don't have.
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Liberté, égalité, humidité.
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Javadog
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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
#16168104 - 05/01/12 09:08 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ah ha....you are way ahead of me bro.
Good luck!
JD
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Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes
Myco-tek.org
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Mycelio
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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
#16170212 - 05/02/12 09:28 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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As you are speaking about the compost recipes in TMC, in my copy Formula 1 on page 82 got an error in the wet weight of cottonseed meal. It says 30 instead of 130 pounds. Somehow the leading digit must have gone lost.
Terry, your laundry basket idea should work, but might require some observation and playing around with FAE and external heat. The core heat will be generated by the metabolic activity of the microbes, burning carbohydrates to CO2 and H2O. If you reach full temperature will depend on the substrate mass/diameter vs. surface area and of course the amount of oxygen, getting in there.
In case your horse manure is already aged, you may just skip composting completely.
Carsten
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