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imachavel said:

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zappaisgod said:

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imachavel said:

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zappaisgod said:

He wasn't saying that at all.  You have no clue what you are talking about.  Nobody gets 5% on a 20M listing.  And I'm married to a top real estate agent in a town that has multi-million dollar homes.  And almost no realtors buy and sell properties.  They just represent in the sale.

Flipping is expensive.  You have a broker's commission, lawyers and bank fees.  Even if you don't do a fucking thing there is a 15% requirement.

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15%? So that is MUCH higher then 5%. That is HIGH in your area, in California the commission fee is 3% for real estate.

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  Not all costs are broker's commissions and not all houses are flipped at $19M.  Are you really that obtuse?

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never said that. The argument was that houses are always sold at the highest prices and bought for the lowest prices. My argument was that if a house goes for 19 million then how does that fit in? Of course if a house is sold for the highest price possible, and the lowest cost house is usually bought, then things should be fair right? Wrong. Because EVERYONE wants to sell their house at the highest cost.

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imachavel said:

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Enlil said:




What are you talking about?  "Lack of old policies"?  Wall Street firms making only $19 million a year in profits?

House prices have fallen recently, if you didn't notice.  Also, I don't know about the last 35 years, but I pay more now for a candy bar than I did a decade ago.

If you want an entirely free market, then you can't be against the trading of stock, or in fact against the prevention of any economic activity whatsoever.

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where the fuck do you live? candy bar has been a dollar since I was born, maybe you are thinking of king size.

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Enlil said:

Are you talking about the stock market crash?  Because, no, Lehman Bros. et al were gambling their own money, not tax dollars.

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they were the only ones doing this? How many people were held accountable?

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Enlil said:

So you know something is wrong when...people think that a change in elected officials will fix a problem?  Is that what you're saying?  It's really hard to make anything coherent out.

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yes change in elected officials will fix a problem. Definition of insanity: trying the same thing over and over and over again expecting different results when it didn't work the first, second, or third time

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Enlil said:

No, that sounds pretty much exactly how a free market works.  Or is it only a free market if the government isn't allowed to spend money?

We made money off of the bank bailout, btw.  Sound investment.

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very sound investment. Should I even start to argue with that one?

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Enlil said:

I'll fix that: define the "middle class" as anyone who lives in a household that makes less than $1 million a year.  Bam.  Instantly healty and large middle class.

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up is down and down is up? On my side really? You are starting to sound like George Bush. "define middle class as anyone who lives in a household that makes less then $1 million a year. Bam. Instantly healthy and large middle class" Sure, I really believe a family making $900,000 a year is middle class. You sure fixed the problem there.

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Enlil said:

Sometimes. Why do you want them(shell) to lose money anyway?

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I could give a shit less. They've had more money in their time then most people could count in a life time. They squander that it's their damn problem.

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Enlil said:

Go to a different gas station?

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that'll fix the problem. Helping out the small guy now Why buy from Ford when you could buy from Chevrolet? Why buy from Chrysler when you could buy from BMW?

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Enlil said:

How can you not buy Shell's gasoline when bio ethanol replaces gasoline?  What?

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My point being one day it will be the same thing all over again. A company making billions, when oil runs out probably one of these algae bio fuel companies will be selling tons of ethanol to you at your local gas station when you own a car that runs on ethanol. It will be the same story then, the company may go bank rupt, lot's of bail outs, people crying over it "they are so hard working, they deserve the bail outs, how can you argue wahh!" I mean really what do these people do for you? They are like any other business, they have their chance, when they ruin themselves, it's their fault. No restaurant owner who ruins their restaurant gets a bail out, why in the world should a large company? Is it easier to lose lot's of money these days then small amounts of money? Up is down and down is up? No kidding

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Enlil said:

I've actually put money down betting that that's going to be 2012's hottest catchphrase.

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I hope so

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Enlil said:

If you'll notice, sometimes corporations go broke, and if corporations had all the money then no one would buy their products.

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As though no one wants to make more money when they already have more money then they could ever really need. Well if only that's what people really thought

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imachavel said:Why does the government need to take hard earned tax dollars and blow it on the stock market!

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Enlil said:

To avoid a global economic catastrophe?

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They've done a great job with that. We already had a HUGE deficit, then we took tax payers money, and bailed out companies that BLEW billions of dollars simply earned by commission, instead of pursuing and charging them as criminals for fraudulent actions. Watch inside job, wasn't just Lehman Brothers and AIG, and the fraudulent actions weren't just them spending personal money in a prostitution ring. Lot's of people wanted to press charges, this was never pursued. Now on top of the deficit we had we have bailing out these BILLION dollar companies and people making $19 million as COMMISSION. I have nothing against commission, as a broker at times there is nothing more fair then giving a hard earned commission by helping companies make a gazillion and getting a tiny percentage and nothing more wrong then calling a broker lazy. But a $19 million bonus? So he is making 10% commission on a 190 million dollar sale? Sounds a little strange to me, as though maybe more then 10% commission was being received, those companies make money not just for themselves, but for thousands of people to be employed. Although this isn't stipulated, those companies were not a government service, there is no guarantee they have to employ anyone. If they could run the company with two people there is no legal stipulation they have to hire anyone. It is indeed private profit for private companies.

So now on top of an already large deficit the government bailed out all these companies who were by some definitions fraudulent. Now we have a 14 trillion debt. Great way to avoid global catastrophe.

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Enlil said:

Where in the Constitution does it say that?

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I guess that's the problem, it's not in the 16th amendment, it's not anywhere. Really, they can do whatever they want with your money. Remember F.D.R.'s quote of what a democratic government is supposed to be? He said fascism is when a group of people control everything instead of the people controlling the government. He said democracy is supposed to be the government is by the people for the people, not one group controlling everything. He said in such a scenario it's not democracy any more but fascism.

So it's not in the constitution? Maybe our constitution isn't based on democracy.

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Enlil said:

So, Shell is making gobs of profits, and yet they're actually going bankrupt?  What kind of world do you live in, where up is down and down is up all at the same time?

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Didn't know they were going bankrupt. First time I've heard of that. I hate to quote another movie but as Gordon Gecko said:

"I make money on speculation, the illusion has become real. I create nothing, I own. You aren't naive enough to think we are living in a democracy are you?"

so democracy isn't a form of economy, it's a political system of government? Well what is in our constitution? What form of government is democracy supposed to represent anyway? Who is really not politically correct here?

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sonamdrukpa said:
I'm not Enlil.

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I replied to you in a completely separate post

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Enlil said:

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imachavel said:

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Sonamdrukpa said:




What are you talking about?  "Lack of old policies"?  Wall Street firms making only $19 million a year in profits?

House prices have fallen recently, if you didn't notice.  Also, I don't know about the last 35 years, but I pay more now for a candy bar than I did a decade ago.

If you want an entirely free market, then you can't be against the trading of stock, or in fact against the prevention of any economic activity whatsoever.

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where the fuck do you live? candy bar has been a dollar since I was born, maybe you are thinking of king size.

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Sonamdrukpa said:

Are you talking about the stock market crash?  Because, no, Lehman Bros. et al were gambling their own money, not tax dollars.

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they were the only ones doing this? How many people were held accountable?

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Sonamdrukpa said:

So you know something is wrong when...people think that a change in elected officials will fix a problem?  Is that what you're saying?  It's really hard to make anything coherent out.

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yes change in elected officials will fix a problem. Definition of insanity: trying the same thing over and over and over again expecting different results when it didn't work the first, second, or third time

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Sonamdrukpa said:

No, that sounds pretty much exactly how a free market works.  Or is it only a free market if the government isn't allowed to spend money?

We made money off of the bank bailout, btw.  Sound investment.

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very sound investment. Should I even start to argue with that one?

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Sonamdrukpa said:

I'll fix that: define the "middle class" as anyone who lives in a household that makes less than $1 million a year.  Bam.  Instantly healty and large middle class.

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up is down and down is up? On my side really? You are starting to sound like George Bush. "define middle class as anyone who lives in a household that makes less then $1 million a year. Bam. Instantly healthy and large middle class" Sure, I really believe a family making $900,000 a year is middle class. You sure fixed the problem there.

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Sonamdrukpa said:

Sometimes. Why do you want them(shell) to lose money anyway?

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I could give a shit less. They've had more money in their time then most people could count in a life time. They squander that it's their damn problem.

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Sonamdrukpa said:

Go to a different gas station?

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that'll fix the problem. Helping out the small guy now Why buy from Ford when you could buy from Chevrolet? Why buy from Chrysler when you could buy from BMW?

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Sonamdrukpa said:

How can you not buy Shell's gasoline when bio ethanol replaces gasoline?  What?

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My point being one day it will be the same thing all over again. A company making billions, when oil runs out probably one of these algae bio fuel companies will be selling tons of ethanol to you at your local gas station when you own a car that runs on ethanol. It will be the same story then, the company may go bank rupt, lot's of bail outs, people crying over it "they are so hard working, they deserve the bail outs, how can you argue wahh!" I mean really what do these people do for you? They are like any other business, they have their chance, when they ruin themselves, it's their fault. No restaurant owner who ruins their restaurant gets a bail out, why in the world should a large company? Is it easier to lose lot's of money these days then small amounts of money? Up is down and down is up? No kidding

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Sonamdrukpa said:

I've actually put money down betting that that's going to be 2012's hottest catchphrase.

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I hope so

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Sonamdrukpa said:

If you'll notice, sometimes corporations go broke, and if corporations had all the money then no one would buy their products.

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As though no one wants to make more money when they already have more money then they could ever really need. Well if only that's what people really thought

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imachavel said:Why does the government need to take hard earned tax dollars and blow it on the stock market!

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Sonamdrukpa said:

To avoid a global economic catastrophe?

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They've done a great job with that. We already had a HUGE deficit, then we took tax payers money, and bailed out companies that BLEW billions of dollars simply earned by commission, instead of pursuing and charging them as criminals for fraudulent actions. Watch inside job, wasn't just Lehman Brothers and AIG, and the fraudulent actions weren't just them spending personal money in a prostitution ring. Lot's of people wanted to press charges, this was never pursued. Now on top of the deficit we had we have bailing out these BILLION dollar companies and people making $19 million as COMMISSION. I have nothing against commission, as a broker at times there is nothing more fair then giving a hard earned commission by helping companies make a gazillion and getting a tiny percentage and nothing more wrong then calling a broker lazy. But a $19 million bonus? So he is making 10% commission on a 190 million dollar sale? Sounds a little strange to me, as though maybe more then 10% commission was being received, those companies make money not just for themselves, but for thousands of people to be employed. Although this isn't stipulated, those companies were not a government service, there is no guarantee they have to employ anyone. If they could run the company with two people there is no legal stipulation they have to hire anyone. It is indeed private profit for private companies.

So now on top of an already large deficit the government bailed out all these companies who were by some definitions fraudulent. Now we have a 14 trillion debt. Great way to avoid global catastrophe.

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Sonamdrukpa said:

Where in the Constitution does it say that?

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I guess that's the problem, it's not in the 16th amendment, it's not anywhere. Really, they can do whatever they want with your money. Remember F.D.R.'s quote of what a democratic government is supposed to be? He said fascism is when a group of people control everything instead of the people controlling the government. He said democracy is supposed to be the government is by the people for the people, not one group controlling everything. He said in such a scenario it's not democracy any more but fascism.

So it's not in the constitution? Maybe our constitution isn't based on democracy.

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Sonamdrukpa said:

So, Shell is making gobs of profits, and yet they're actually going bankrupt?  What kind of world do you live in, where up is down and down is up all at the same time?

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Didn't know they were going bankrupt. First time I've heard of that. I hate to quote another movie but as Gordon Gecko said:

"I make money on speculation, the illusion has become real. I create nothing, I own. You aren't naive enough to think we are living in a democracy are you?"

so democracy isn't a form of economy, it's a political system of government? Well what is in our constitution? What form of government is democracy supposed to represent anyway? Who is really not politically correct here?

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LOL...WTF?  I DIDN'T SAY ANY OF THIS STUFF.

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FIXED

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zappaisgod said:


Stop meddling in the money lending market.

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imachavel said:
where the fuck do you live? candy bar has been a dollar since I was born, maybe you are thinking of king size.

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Sonamdrukpa said:

Are you talking about the stock market crash?  Because, no, Lehman Bros. et al were gambling their own money, not tax dollars.

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they were the only ones doing this? How many people were held accountable?

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Sonamdrukpa said:

No, that sounds pretty much exactly how a free market works.  Or is it only a free market if the government isn't allowed to spend money?

We made money off of the bank bailout, btw.  Sound investment.

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very sound investment. Should I even start to argue with that one?

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Sonamdrukpa said:
I'll fix that: define the "middle class" as anyone who lives in a household that makes less than $1 million a year.  Bam.  Instantly healty and large middle class.

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up is down and down is up? On my side really? You are starting to sound like George Bush. "define middle class as anyone who lives in a household that makes less then $1 million a year. Bam. Instantly healthy and large middle class" Sure, I really believe a family making $900,000 a year is middle class. You sure fixed the problem there.

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Sonamdrukpa said:
Go to a different gas station?

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that'll fix the problem. Helping out the small guy now Why buy from Ford when you could buy from Chevrolet? Why buy from Chrysler when you could buy from BMW?

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Sonamdrukpa said:

If you'll notice, sometimes corporations go broke, and if corporations had all the money then no one would buy their products.

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As though no one wants to make more money when they already have more money then they could ever really need. Well if only that's what people really thought

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Sonamdrukpa said:
Where in the Constitution does it say that?

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I guess that's the problem, it's not in the 16th amendment, it's not anywhere. Really, they can do whatever they want with your money. Remember F.D.R.'s quote of what a democratic government is supposed to be? He said fascism is when a group of people control everything instead of the people controlling the government. He said democracy is supposed to be the government is by the people for the people, not one group controlling everything. He said in such a scenario it's not democracy any more but fascism.

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So you were just making stuff up when you said the bank bailouts were unconstitutional.

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So it's not in the constitution? Maybe our constitution isn't based on democracy.

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A democratic system is one that involves no bailouts?  Is that what you're saying?  That is not the definition of democracy.

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Sonamdrukpa said:

So, Shell is making gobs of profits, and yet they're actually going bankrupt?  What kind of world do you live in, where up is down and down is up all at the same time?

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Didn't know they were going bankrupt. First time I've heard of that.

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That's funny, because the first time I heard of it was here:

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imachavel said:
When everyone is buying shell gas, how can they NOT make money? You give them EVERY DAMN DOLLAR YOU MAKE! And they deserve a bail out? Fuck when a company like that goes under, they file for bank ruptcy, then with the remaining cash they didn't sink bank into the business they retire in Nassau. How is our tax money going into the stock market the free market?!

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I hate to quote another movie but as Gordon Gecko said:

"I make money on speculation, the illusion has become real. I create nothing, I own. You aren't naive enough to think we are living in a democracy are you?"

so democracy isn't a form of economy, it's a political system of government? Well what is in our constitution? What form of government is democracy supposed to represent anyway? Who is really not politically correct here?

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What in the world are you on?

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johnm214 said:

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Shins said:
Look up ron paul guys.

the media / political establishment hate him because hes not a shill.

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uh, is he even running?

Are we going to have the same nonsense we did in 08 with all these people claiming they were voting for someone who wasn't even a candidate

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sonamdrukpa said:



A democratic system is one that involves no bailouts?  Is that what you're saying?  That is not the definition of democracy.





What in the world are you on?

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why don't you define it for me? As long as you think what the government is doing is fucking justice, how about we legalize all drugs, and allow anyone to taxably sell them. Then you'd hear people complaining for damn sure. "Oh my god kids are selling crack legally and shit, oh my god!! How is it possible?

Fucking free market man. I guess what me and everyone else at this site argue about, are peoples rights to dignity, a person who works their ass off their whole damn life and gets no retirement in Zappa's eyes is a complete total idiot dip shit. Then people complain about racism all over this forum. Yet where is respect and dignity for people who make choices not to fit in and do what everyone else does, and to make their own choices? Where is that? What else can I say, me arguing here is like playing chess with someone's rights. Can't really say much more. Forget me voting, not for liars, that's for damn sure.

I'll tell you what, you call democracy whatever you want. You call it the best government in the world, you say comparing it to Communism and Socialism that it's awesome. So it wins by default, just like the next fucking president

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Enlil said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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DieCommie said:
There are more homeowners.

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Here is a graph of homeowner rates since 1965 (when the data was first collected annually):

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DieCommie said nothing about homeownership rates...he said there are more homeowners...do you have a graph or data showing the amount of homeowners?

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zappaisgod said:
You want to go back to a time when women were all but compelled to working in a limited range of occupations?  What the fuck do you think was going to happen when they doubled the available work force?

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Shill said:

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johnm214 said:

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Shins said:
Look up ron paul guys.

the media / political establishment hate him because hes not a shill.

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uh, is he even running?

Are we going to have the same nonsense we did in 08 with all these people claiming they were voting for someone who wasn't even a candidate

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Well, yeah Ron is staying in the Race.

And it probably will be the same turnout as '08.

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imachavel said:


why don't you define it for me? As long as you think what the government is doing is fucking justice, how about we legalize all drugs, and allow anyone to taxably sell them. Then you'd hear people complaining for damn sure. "Oh my god kids are selling crack legally and shit, oh my god!! How is it possible?

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Fucking free market man. I guess what me and everyone else at this site argue about, are peoples rights to dignity, a person who works their ass off their whole damn life and gets no retirement in Zappa's eyes is a complete total idiot dip shit.

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Then people complain about racism all over this forum. Yet where is respect and dignity for people who make choices not to fit in and do what everyone else does, and to make their own choices? Where is that? What else can I say, me arguing here is like playing chess with someone's rights. Can't really say much more. Forget me voting, not for liars, that's for damn sure.

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I'll tell you what, you call democracy whatever you want. You call it the best government in the world, you say comparing it to Communism and Socialism that it's awesome. So it wins by default, just like the next fucking president

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Awwwwww, poor baby, doesn't get to appoint his own puppet. 

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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zappaisgod said:
You want to go back to a time when women were all but compelled to working in a limited range of occupations?  What the fuck do you think was going to happen when they doubled the available work force?

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If the workforce is doubled, then the amount of money spent should be doubled.  Would you argue that as population increases, wages necessarily go down?

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Are you serious?  Homeownership rates is all that matters.  If 100 million people own homes in a population of 100 million people, that's 100% homeownership rate.  If 50 years later, 110 million own homes in a population of 220 million people, then that's a 50% homeownership rate.  That's NOT an improvement even though the number went up.

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