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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: imachavel]
    #16170919 - 05/02/12 12:10 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:

He wasn't saying that at all.  You have no clue what you are talking about.  Nobody gets 5% on a 20M listing.  And I'm married to a top real estate agent in a town that has multi-million dollar homes.  And almost no realtors buy and sell properties.  They just represent in the sale.

Flipping is expensive.  You have a broker's commission, lawyers and bank fees.  Even if you don't do a fucking thing there is a 15% requirement.




15%? So that is MUCH higher then 5%. That is HIGH in your area, in California the commission fee is 3% for real estate.




:facepalm:  Not all costs are broker's commissions and not all houses are flipped at $19M.  Are you really that obtuse?




never said that. The argument was that houses are always sold at the highest prices and bought for the lowest prices. My argument was that if a house goes for 19 million then how does that fit in? Of course if a house is sold for the highest price possible, and the lowest cost house is usually bought, then things should be fair right? Wrong. Because EVERYONE wants to sell their house at the highest cost.




Everyone wants to get the most when the sell and pay the least when they buy.  Duh.  Nobody gets to set any price.
Quote:

 

So often times what happens is that the prices come out about even. In which case they are all expensive. Now They don't all cost 19 million. But let me ask you, in the 70s certain times a house could be found as low as $65,000, for a nice three bedroom house. Where are you going to find that now? And in the late 70s the minimum wage was about $3.50 an hour, it's only double that now, so equivalently $65,000 for a three bedroom house would be $130,000 for a three bedroom house now. See that much these days? I sure don't. Not even in Idaho, and I kid you not I'm not just speaking from Florida experience.




In the seventies you could buy a 3 BR for $20K, DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU LIVE.  I live in one of the richest towns in the country.  You can't buy a garage for $130K.  What are the three most important factors in real estate? 

People who make minimum wage are not going to be buying anything.  They are either children or losers.
Quote:



Now with all that money for a mortgage being paid off for a very expensive house to a loan company by an insurance company, who is going broke while stock market traders are making million dollars BONUSES at the end of the year, pretty much FRAUDULENTLY, off the insurance company. And then when the company goes bank rupt, an already broke government with a deficit bails them out adding to a HUGER deficit. A bad business model made worst. 14 trillion we owe now. Funny, I thought you agreed with me on this. I thought our main argument was who was mainly responsible a democratic party or a republican party.




I thought I was always clear on this.  The people to blame are the assholes who borrowed money and didn't pay it back.  Derivatively, the people who encouraged and coerced lending to assholes who don't repay the money they borrow are also to blame, although to a much lesser extent.

I can't address the first half of that paragraph because it is gibberish.  Nobody made anybody take out a loan or bid too much on a house.  Ever.
Quote:



My answer = unfixable in a corrupt society. But ideas and solutions clearly vary




Stop meddling in the money lending market.


--------------------


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Posts: 49,772
Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: imachavel]
    #16170949 - 05/02/12 12:16 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

Enlil said:




What are you talking about?  "Lack of old policies"?  Wall Street firms making only $19 million a year in profits?

House prices have fallen recently, if you didn't notice.  Also, I don't know about the last 35 years, but I pay more now for a candy bar than I did a decade ago.

If you want an entirely free market, then you can't be against the trading of stock, or in fact against the prevention of any economic activity whatsoever.




where the fuck do you live? candy bar has been a dollar since I was born, maybe you are thinking of king size.

Quote:

Enlil said:

Are you talking about the stock market crash?  Because, no, Lehman Bros. et al were gambling their own money, not tax dollars.




:rolleyes: they were the only ones doing this? How many people were held accountable?

Quote:

Enlil said:

So you know something is wrong when...people think that a change in elected officials will fix a problem?  Is that what you're saying?  It's really hard to make anything coherent out.




yes change in elected officials will fix a problem. Definition of insanity: trying the same thing over and over and over again expecting different results when it didn't work the first, second, or third time

Quote:

Enlil said:

No, that sounds pretty much exactly how a free market works.  Or is it only a free market if the government isn't allowed to spend money?

We made money off of the bank bailout, btw.  Sound investment.




:lol: very sound investment. Should I even start to argue with that one? :wink:


Quote:

Enlil said:

I'll fix that: define the "middle class" as anyone who lives in a household that makes less than $1 million a year.  Bam.  Instantly healty and large middle class.






up is down and down is up? On my side really? You are starting to sound like George Bush. "define middle class as anyone who lives in a household that makes less then $1 million a year. Bam. Instantly healthy and large middle class" Sure, I really believe a family making $900,000 a year is middle class. You sure fixed the problem there.


Quote:

Enlil said:

Sometimes. Why do you want them(shell) to lose money anyway?






I could give a shit less. They've had more money in their time then most people could count in a life time. They squander that it's their damn problem.


Quote:

Enlil said:

Go to a different gas station?






:lol: that'll fix the problem. Helping out the small guy now :lol: Why buy from Ford when you could buy from Chevrolet? Why buy from Chrysler when you could buy from BMW? :shrug:


Quote:

Enlil said:

How can you not buy Shell's gasoline when bio ethanol replaces gasoline?  What?






My point being one day it will be the same thing all over again. A company making billions, when oil runs out probably one of these algae bio fuel companies will be selling tons of ethanol to you at your local gas station when you own a car that runs on ethanol. It will be the same story then, the company may go bank rupt, lot's of bail outs, people crying over it "they are so hard working, they deserve the bail outs, how can you argue wahh!" I mean really what do these people do for you? They are like any other business, they have their chance, when they ruin themselves, it's their fault. No restaurant owner who ruins their restaurant gets a bail out, why in the world should a large company? Is it easier to lose lot's of money these days then small amounts of money? Up is down and down is up? No kidding


Quote:

Enlil said:

I've actually put money down betting that that's going to be 2012's hottest catchphrase.






:laugh2: I hope so :thumbup:


Quote:

Enlil said:

If you'll notice, sometimes corporations go broke, and if corporations had all the money then no one would buy their products.






As though no one wants to make more money when they already have more money then they could ever really need. Well if only that's what people really thought :foreheadslap:

Quote:

imachavel said:Why does the government need to take hard earned tax dollars and blow it on the stock market!





Quote:

Enlil said:

To avoid a global economic catastrophe?






They've done a great job with that. We already had a HUGE deficit, then we took tax payers money, and bailed out companies that BLEW billions of dollars simply earned by commission, instead of pursuing and charging them as criminals for fraudulent actions. Watch inside job, wasn't just Lehman Brothers and AIG, and the fraudulent actions weren't just them spending personal money in a prostitution ring. Lot's of people wanted to press charges, this was never pursued. Now on top of the deficit we had we have bailing out these BILLION dollar companies and people making $19 million as COMMISSION. I have nothing against commission, as a broker at times there is nothing more fair then giving a hard earned commission by helping companies make a gazillion and getting a tiny percentage and nothing more wrong then calling a broker lazy. But a $19 million bonus? So he is making 10% commission on a 190 million dollar sale? Sounds a little strange to me, as though maybe more then 10% commission was being received, those companies make money not just for themselves, but for thousands of people to be employed. Although this isn't stipulated, those companies were not a government service, there is no guarantee they have to employ anyone. If they could run the company with two people there is no legal stipulation they have to hire anyone. It is indeed private profit for private companies.

So now on top of an already large deficit the government bailed out all these companies who were by some definitions fraudulent. Now we have a 14 trillion debt. Great way to avoid global catastrophe.


Quote:

Enlil said:

Where in the Constitution does it say that?






I guess that's the problem, it's not in the 16th amendment, it's not anywhere. Really, they can do whatever they want with your money. Remember F.D.R.'s quote of what a democratic government is supposed to be? He said fascism is when a group of people control everything instead of the people controlling the government. He said democracy is supposed to be the government is by the people for the people, not one group controlling everything. He said in such a scenario it's not democracy any more but fascism.

So it's not in the constitution? Maybe our constitution isn't based on democracy.


Quote:

Enlil said:

So, Shell is making gobs of profits, and yet they're actually going bankrupt?  What kind of world do you live in, where up is down and down is up all at the same time?




Didn't know they were going bankrupt. First time I've heard of that. I hate to quote another movie but as Gordon Gecko said:

"I make money on speculation, the illusion has become real. I create nothing, I own. You aren't naive enough to think we are living in a democracy are you?"

so democracy isn't a form of economy, it's a political system of government? Well what is in our constitution? What form of government is democracy supposed to represent anyway? Who is really not politically correct here?



LOL...WTF?  I DIDN'T SAY ANY OF THIS STUFF.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


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Offlineimachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #16170971 - 05/02/12 12:21 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
I'm not Enlil. :fuckyou:




I replied to you in a completely separate post :bitchplease:


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Offlineimachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
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Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 26,133
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: Enlil]
    #16170976 - 05/02/12 12:21 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

oh crap. How in the world did I end up quoting you?


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Offlineimachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
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Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 26,133
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Last seen: 2 hours, 30 minutes
Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: Enlil]
    #16170988 - 05/02/12 12:25 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:




What are you talking about?  "Lack of old policies"?  Wall Street firms making only $19 million a year in profits?

House prices have fallen recently, if you didn't notice.  Also, I don't know about the last 35 years, but I pay more now for a candy bar than I did a decade ago.

If you want an entirely free market, then you can't be against the trading of stock, or in fact against the prevention of any economic activity whatsoever.




where the fuck do you live? candy bar has been a dollar since I was born, maybe you are thinking of king size.

Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:

Are you talking about the stock market crash?  Because, no, Lehman Bros. et al were gambling their own money, not tax dollars.




:rolleyes: they were the only ones doing this? How many people were held accountable?

Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:

So you know something is wrong when...people think that a change in elected officials will fix a problem?  Is that what you're saying?  It's really hard to make anything coherent out.




yes change in elected officials will fix a problem. Definition of insanity: trying the same thing over and over and over again expecting different results when it didn't work the first, second, or third time

Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:

No, that sounds pretty much exactly how a free market works.  Or is it only a free market if the government isn't allowed to spend money?

We made money off of the bank bailout, btw.  Sound investment.




:lol: very sound investment. Should I even start to argue with that one? :wink:


Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:

I'll fix that: define the "middle class" as anyone who lives in a household that makes less than $1 million a year.  Bam.  Instantly healty and large middle class.






up is down and down is up? On my side really? You are starting to sound like George Bush. "define middle class as anyone who lives in a household that makes less then $1 million a year. Bam. Instantly healthy and large middle class" Sure, I really believe a family making $900,000 a year is middle class. You sure fixed the problem there.


Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:

Sometimes. Why do you want them(shell) to lose money anyway?






I could give a shit less. They've had more money in their time then most people could count in a life time. They squander that it's their damn problem.


Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:

Go to a different gas station?






:lol: that'll fix the problem. Helping out the small guy now :lol: Why buy from Ford when you could buy from Chevrolet? Why buy from Chrysler when you could buy from BMW? :shrug:


Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:

How can you not buy Shell's gasoline when bio ethanol replaces gasoline?  What?






My point being one day it will be the same thing all over again. A company making billions, when oil runs out probably one of these algae bio fuel companies will be selling tons of ethanol to you at your local gas station when you own a car that runs on ethanol. It will be the same story then, the company may go bank rupt, lot's of bail outs, people crying over it "they are so hard working, they deserve the bail outs, how can you argue wahh!" I mean really what do these people do for you? They are like any other business, they have their chance, when they ruin themselves, it's their fault. No restaurant owner who ruins their restaurant gets a bail out, why in the world should a large company? Is it easier to lose lot's of money these days then small amounts of money? Up is down and down is up? No kidding


Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:

I've actually put money down betting that that's going to be 2012's hottest catchphrase.






:laugh2: I hope so :thumbup:


Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:

If you'll notice, sometimes corporations go broke, and if corporations had all the money then no one would buy their products.






As though no one wants to make more money when they already have more money then they could ever really need. Well if only that's what people really thought :foreheadslap:

Quote:

imachavel said:Why does the government need to take hard earned tax dollars and blow it on the stock market!





Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:

To avoid a global economic catastrophe?






They've done a great job with that. We already had a HUGE deficit, then we took tax payers money, and bailed out companies that BLEW billions of dollars simply earned by commission, instead of pursuing and charging them as criminals for fraudulent actions. Watch inside job, wasn't just Lehman Brothers and AIG, and the fraudulent actions weren't just them spending personal money in a prostitution ring. Lot's of people wanted to press charges, this was never pursued. Now on top of the deficit we had we have bailing out these BILLION dollar companies and people making $19 million as COMMISSION. I have nothing against commission, as a broker at times there is nothing more fair then giving a hard earned commission by helping companies make a gazillion and getting a tiny percentage and nothing more wrong then calling a broker lazy. But a $19 million bonus? So he is making 10% commission on a 190 million dollar sale? Sounds a little strange to me, as though maybe more then 10% commission was being received, those companies make money not just for themselves, but for thousands of people to be employed. Although this isn't stipulated, those companies were not a government service, there is no guarantee they have to employ anyone. If they could run the company with two people there is no legal stipulation they have to hire anyone. It is indeed private profit for private companies.

So now on top of an already large deficit the government bailed out all these companies who were by some definitions fraudulent. Now we have a 14 trillion debt. Great way to avoid global catastrophe.


Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:

Where in the Constitution does it say that?






I guess that's the problem, it's not in the 16th amendment, it's not anywhere. Really, they can do whatever they want with your money. Remember F.D.R.'s quote of what a democratic government is supposed to be? He said fascism is when a group of people control everything instead of the people controlling the government. He said democracy is supposed to be the government is by the people for the people, not one group controlling everything. He said in such a scenario it's not democracy any more but fascism.

So it's not in the constitution? Maybe our constitution isn't based on democracy.


Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:

So, Shell is making gobs of profits, and yet they're actually going bankrupt?  What kind of world do you live in, where up is down and down is up all at the same time?




Didn't know they were going bankrupt. First time I've heard of that. I hate to quote another movie but as Gordon Gecko said:

"I make money on speculation, the illusion has become real. I create nothing, I own. You aren't naive enough to think we are living in a democracy are you?"

so democracy isn't a form of economy, it's a political system of government? Well what is in our constitution? What form of government is democracy supposed to represent anyway? Who is really not politically correct here?



LOL...WTF?  I DIDN'T SAY ANY OF THIS STUFF.




:lol: FIXED :laugh2:


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Offlineimachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 26,133
Loc: You get banned for saying... Flag
Last seen: 2 hours, 30 minutes
Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16170997 - 05/02/12 12:26 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:


Stop meddling in the money lending market.




as little as possible, believe me. If I'm within a loan it's between other people and I just want a commission. I don't want the type of debt other people have believe you me


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinesonamdrukpa
Wayfarer


Registered: 10/18/11
Posts: 2,775
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: imachavel] * 1
    #16171317 - 05/02/12 01:31 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
where the fuck do you live? candy bar has been a dollar since I was born, maybe you are thinking of king size.




Maybe it has there.  Around here regular-sized snickers cost about 50 cents to 65 cents depending on where you bought it from a decade ago.  Now it's 79 cents to a dollar.

Quote:

Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:

Are you talking about the stock market crash?  Because, no, Lehman Bros. et al were gambling their own money, not tax dollars.




:rolleyes: they were the only ones doing this? How many people were held accountable?




"et al" means "and others." 

Under a completely free market, stockbrokers aren't "held accountable" for losing money.  This is your problem: your idea of a "free market" is undefined, seemingly contradictory, and apparently is tied up in some weird definition of democracy.

Quote:

yes change in elected officials will fix a problem. Definition of insanity: trying the same thing over and over and over again expecting different results when it didn't work the first, second, or third time




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_States

It appears that your method of electing new government officials to prevent recessions is insane.

Quote:

Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:

No, that sounds pretty much exactly how a free market works.  Or is it only a free market if the government isn't allowed to spend money?

We made money off of the bank bailout, btw.  Sound investment.




:lol: very sound investment. Should I even start to argue with that one? :wink:




What part of "We made money" sounds like a bad investment?  Or was it the part the bailout prevented a full-out depression?

Quote:

Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:
I'll fix that: define the "middle class" as anyone who lives in a household that makes less than $1 million a year.  Bam.  Instantly healty and large middle class.





up is down and down is up? On my side really? You are starting to sound like George Bush. "define middle class as anyone who lives in a household that makes less then $1 million a year. Bam. Instantly healthy and large middle class" Sure, I really believe a family making $900,000 a year is middle class. You sure fixed the problem there.




How did you define the middle class when you pulled that 10% figure out your ass?  My point is that what counts as middle class is a matter of opinion.  Yammering about the growth or decline of the middle class is just wanking unless you can do a more sophisticated analysis than asserting that the middle class will shrink to less than 10% by argumentative fiat.

Quote:

Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:
Go to a different gas station?





:lol: that'll fix the problem. Helping out the small guy now :lol: Why buy from Ford when you could buy from Chevrolet? Why buy from Chrysler when you could buy from BMW? :shrug:




If you don't like a company, boycott its products.  If you don't like all companies, boycott all corporate-made products.  Why are you bitching about the fact that Shell, Exxon, etc. exist?  An oil market run entirely by "small business" would be chaos and completely unworkable on a national scale.

Quote:


My point being one day it will be the same thing all over again. A company making billions, when oil runs out probably one of these algae bio fuel companies will be selling tons of ethanol to you at your local gas station when you own a car that runs on ethanol. It will be the same story then, the company may go bank rupt, lot's of bail outs, people crying over it "they are so hard working, they deserve the bail outs, how can you argue wahh!" I mean really what do these people do for you? They are like any other business, they have their chance, when they ruin themselves, it's their fault. No restaurant owner who ruins their restaurant gets a bail out, why in the world should a large company? Is it easier to lose lot's of money these days then small amounts of money? Up is down and down is up? No kidding




What oil bailout was there?  What makes you think America's political climate would ever possibly allow for the bailout of an oil company?

Quote:

Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:

If you'll notice, sometimes corporations go broke, and if corporations had all the money then no one would buy their products.






As though no one wants to make more money when they already have more money then they could ever really need. Well if only that's what people really thought :foreheadslap:




What the eff are you talking about?

Quote:


They've done a great job with that. We already had a HUGE deficit, then we took tax payers money, and bailed out companies that BLEW billions of dollars simply earned by commission, instead of pursuing and charging them as criminals for fraudulent actions. Watch inside job, wasn't just Lehman Brothers and AIG, and the fraudulent actions weren't just them spending personal money in a prostitution ring. Lot's of people wanted to press charges, this was never pursued. Now on top of the deficit we had we have bailing out these BILLION dollar companies and people making $19 million as COMMISSION. I have nothing against commission, as a broker at times there is nothing more fair then giving a hard earned commission by helping companies make a gazillion and getting a tiny percentage and nothing more wrong then calling a broker lazy. But a $19 million bonus? So he is making 10% commission on a 190 million dollar sale? Sounds a little strange to me, as though maybe more then 10% commission was being received, those companies make money not just for themselves, but for thousands of people to be employed. Although this isn't stipulated, those companies were not a government service, there is no guarantee they have to employ anyone. If they could run the company with two people there is no legal stipulation they have to hire anyone. It is indeed private profit for private companies.




I'm going through your argument, contradicting your points for shits and giggles, but damn if I haven't figured out what the hell your main point or argument is other than that you're experiencing heavy feelings of injustice.  I'll grant that.  The current political and economic situation is injust.

Quote:

Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:
Where in the Constitution does it say that?





I guess that's the problem, it's not in the 16th amendment, it's not anywhere. Really, they can do whatever they want with your money. Remember F.D.R.'s quote of what a democratic government is supposed to be? He said fascism is when a group of people control everything instead of the people controlling the government. He said democracy is supposed to be the government is by the people for the people, not one group controlling everything. He said in such a scenario it's not democracy any more but fascism.




So you were just making stuff up when you said the bank bailouts were unconstitutional.

Quote:

So it's not in the constitution? Maybe our constitution isn't based on democracy.




:itwasgoodforme:

A democratic system is one that involves no bailouts?  Is that what you're saying?  That is not the definition of democracy.

Quote:

Quote:

Sonamdrukpa said:

So, Shell is making gobs of profits, and yet they're actually going bankrupt?  What kind of world do you live in, where up is down and down is up all at the same time?




Didn't know they were going bankrupt. First time I've heard of that.




That's funny, because the first time I heard of it was here:

Quote:

imachavel said:
When everyone is buying shell gas, how can they NOT make money? You give them EVERY DAMN DOLLAR YOU MAKE! And they deserve a bail out? Fuck when a company like that goes under, they file for bank ruptcy, then with the remaining cash they didn't sink bank into the business they retire in Nassau. How is our tax money going into the stock market the free market?!




Quote:

I hate to quote another movie but as Gordon Gecko said:

"I make money on speculation, the illusion has become real. I create nothing, I own. You aren't naive enough to think we are living in a democracy are you?"

so democracy isn't a form of economy, it's a political system of government? Well what is in our constitution? What form of government is democracy supposed to represent anyway? Who is really not politically correct here?




:mygoditsfullofstars:

What in the world are you on?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #16171477 - 05/02/12 02:12 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

And how come he doesn't share?


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InvisibleShill
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: johnm214]
    #16172415 - 05/02/12 05:38 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Look up ron paul guys.

the media / political establishment hate him because hes not a shill.




uh, is he even running?

Are we going to have the same nonsense we did in 08 with all these people claiming they were voting for someone who wasn't even a candidate :flowstone:





Well, yeah Ron is staying in the Race.

And it probably will be the same turnout as '08.


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The countdown to the break up of the euro has officially begun.

A great financial crisis is going to erupt in Europe, and it is going to shake the world to the core.

If you were frightened by what happened back in 2008, then you are going to be absolutely horrified by what is coming next.

"You throw the sand against the wind
And the wind blows it back again."
- William Blake


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #16174151 - 05/02/12 10:08 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:

:itwasgoodforme:

A democratic system is one that involves no bailouts?  Is that what you're saying?  That is not the definition of democracy.



:mygoditsfullofstars:

What in the world are you on?




why don't you define it for me? As long as you think what the government is doing is fucking justice, how about we legalize all drugs, and allow anyone to taxably sell them. Then you'd hear people complaining for damn sure. "Oh my god kids are selling crack legally and shit, oh my god!! How is it possible?

Fucking free market man. I guess what me and everyone else at this site argue about, are peoples rights to dignity, a person who works their ass off their whole damn life and gets no retirement in Zappa's eyes is a complete total idiot dip shit. Then people complain about racism all over this forum. Yet where is respect and dignity for people who make choices not to fit in and do what everyone else does, and to make their own choices? Where is that? What else can I say, me arguing here is like playing chess with someone's rights. Can't really say much more. Forget me voting, not for liars, that's for damn sure.

I'll tell you what, you call democracy whatever you want. You call it the best government in the world, you say comparing it to Communism and Socialism that it's awesome. So it wins by default, just like the next fucking president :wink:


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The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


Edited by imachavel (05/02/12 10:10 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: Enlil]
    #16174542 - 05/02/12 11:19 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
There are more homeowners.



Here is a graph of homeowner rates since 1965 (when the data was first collected annually):




DieCommie said nothing about homeownership rates...he said there are more homeowners...do you have a graph or data showing the amount of homeowners?



Are you serious?  Homeownership rates is all that matters.  If 100 million people own homes in a population of 100 million people, that's 100% homeownership rate.  If 50 years later, 110 million own homes in a population of 220 million people, then that's a 50% homeownership rate.  That's NOT an improvement even though the number went up.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflinewerDehT
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #16174582 - 05/02/12 11:28 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)



--------------------
"It's only after you've lost everything that your free to do anything."


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16174585 - 05/02/12 11:29 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You want to go back to a time when women were all but compelled to working in a limited range of occupations?  What the fuck do you think was going to happen when they doubled the available work force?:facepalm:



If the workforce is doubled, then the amount of money spent should be doubled.  Would you argue that as population increases, wages necessarily go down?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: Shill]
    #16175143 - 05/03/12 02:25 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shill said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Look up ron paul guys.

the media / political establishment hate him because hes not a shill.




uh, is he even running?

Are we going to have the same nonsense we did in 08 with all these people claiming they were voting for someone who wasn't even a candidate :flowstone:





Well, yeah Ron is staying in the Race.

And it probably will be the same turnout as '08.





What do you mean "staying in"?  Has he announced or registered his intention to run for President as an independant?  Do you have some data for this?  In the states I'm familiar with they just through away your ballot if you vote for someone who isn't a candidate- which seems to be what Shins is advocating for some reason.

Last election, in 08, we had all these morons coming in this forum and trying convince people to vote for someone who wasn't a candidate as well- it was ron paul again.  Its gotta be embarrassing when your supporters don't even know what races your in.


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OfflinewerDehT
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: johnm214] * 1
    #16175173 - 05/03/12 02:40 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Gary Johnson and Ron Paul have similar views. One big difference is Gary isn't crazy anti-abortion. Johnson is still in though, libertarian national convention starts today and I expect he'll get the nomination Monday. Seriously guys, especially you Ron Paul freaks, check him out.


--------------------
"It's only after you've lost everything that your free to do anything."


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: imachavel]
    #16175627 - 05/03/12 07:30 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:


why don't you define it for me? As long as you think what the government is doing is fucking justice, how about we legalize all drugs, and allow anyone to taxably sell them. Then you'd hear people complaining for damn sure. "Oh my god kids are selling crack legally and shit, oh my god!! How is it possible?




What makes you think it wouldn't be licensed?  Alcohol sales are licensed.
Quote:



Fucking free market man. I guess what me and everyone else at this site argue about, are peoples rights to dignity, a person who works their ass off their whole damn life and gets no retirement in Zappa's eyes is a complete total idiot dip shit.



Aside from the the fact that almost nobody works their ass off any more, don't you think if they weren't having approximately 12% of their earnings taken by the government specifically under the rubric of funding retirement they might actually be able to use that money to fund a retirement account that would leave them with a million dollars in the bank at retirement, the interest from which they could live on without ever touching the principal?  And if they don't fuck 'em.  There's some dignity for you.  Personal responsibility and the opportunity to accept the consequences of their own actions.
Quote:



Then people complain about racism all over this forum. Yet where is respect and dignity for people who make choices not to fit in and do what everyone else does, and to make their own choices? Where is that? What else can I say, me arguing here is like playing chess with someone's rights. Can't really say much more. Forget me voting, not for liars, that's for damn sure.




What specifically are you whining about here?  Who makes anyone "fit in and do what everyone else does"?  Do whatever the fuck you want.  Just don't demand I feed you.
Quote:



I'll tell you what, you call democracy whatever you want. You call it the best government in the world, you say comparing it to Communism and Socialism that it's awesome. So it wins by default, just like the next fucking president :wink:




Awwwwww, poor baby, doesn't get to appoint his own puppet.  :bitch:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #16175630 - 05/03/12 07:32 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You want to go back to a time when women were all but compelled to working in a limited range of occupations?  What the fuck do you think was going to happen when they doubled the available work force?:facepalm:



If the workforce is doubled, then the amount of money spent should be doubled.  Would you argue that as population increases, wages necessarily go down?



If the work force is doubled there is more competition for jobs which drives down wages.  Duh.


--------------------


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Posts: 29,258
Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #16176439 - 05/03/12 12:25 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Are you serious?  Homeownership rates is all that matters.  If 100 million people own homes in a population of 100 million people, that's 100% homeownership rate.  If 50 years later, 110 million own homes in a population of 220 million people, then that's a 50% homeownership rate.  That's NOT an improvement even though the number went up.




I agree, but your graph clearly shows that home ownership rates are, and have been, higher during my generation than the generation or two before.  Just like I claimed.


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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16176477 - 05/03/12 12:36 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

A democracy is a form of government where everyone in a society gets a say in determining governmental policy.  The US has too many people to be a pure democracy, so we are a democratic republic.  Whether or not a country is a democracy has almost nothing to do with the social or economic policies of that country, nor does it has any necessary connection to any idea of "justice."


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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #16176521 - 05/03/12 12:48 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think high homeownership is necessarily a good thing.  Homeownership creates a workforce that is stuck wherever it is, which pretty much guarantees structural unemployment.


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