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Offlineimachavel
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: DieCommie]
    #16170394 - 05/02/12 12:26 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
This part,

Quote:

Families could live comfortably on a single income, most families could afford a house, car, and college education.  The middle class has never been as strong before or after that period.




There are more homeowners, more car owners, more college students and a richer middle class than ever.  The difference is in expectations and standards of living.  People need two incomes to pay for luxuries above and beyond anything the myth of americana offers.




why the late 70s were much better. The middle class really consists of two departments, if you want to call it in such a way. The richer part and the lower part. Under the lower part is the poor, and above the richer part is the rich. Now almost no lower middle class exists. Simply poor, higher middle class, and super rich. And no poor or lower middle class can afford to feed a family of 5 on a single income any more, like they could in the 60s and 70s. So for super higher middle class, awesome! They can do it with two incomes. And yes as you said there are more rich people now then ever in HISTORY! There were NEVER so many upper middle class and rich. Only problem is we were better off in 80s when 80% of the population was middle class, made less but then everyone lived on a single income, people would have 6 kids and feed them all on a single income!

Don't believe the formula? Look at the state of our nation right now! Here is proof!

http://www.businessinsider.com/22-statistics-that-prove-the-middle-class-is-being-systematically-wiped-out-of-existence-in-america-2010-7


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


Edited by imachavel (05/02/12 12:30 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #16170407 - 05/02/12 12:31 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
There are more homeowners, more car owners, more college students and a richer middle class than ever.  The difference is in expectations and standards of living.  People need two incomes to pay for luxuries above and beyond anything the myth of americana offers.



Here is a graph of homeowner rates since 1965 (when the data was first collected annually):



Prior to 1965, decennial Census data "show a large increase in homeownership in the 1940s and 1950s, from from about 45 percent of all households in 1940 to 63 percent in 1960. Between 1900 and 1940, the homeownership rate fluctuated between about 45 and 48 percent"  So the increase in homeownership started in the 1940's and continued until 1980, when there was a large decline in homeownership.




That looks like a large decline to you?  From just under 66% to just under 64%  That's 2%
Quote:

  A large bubble began shortly after the Glass–Steagall Act was repealed, but that bubble collapsed in 2007 and is continuing its rapid decline.




The bubble had nothing to do with Glass-Steagal and everything to do with vast expansion of Fannie and Freddie, which government agencies vastly increased their market share as a result of Clinton policies.
Quote:


Yes, there are more college students than ever, but that's not a result of them being able to afford it better. 




No, it is a result of fraudulent credential demands and opening the gates of academia to vastly unqualified students.
Quote:

It's required for them to make the same income that people used to make without a college degree.  In fact, college is more difficult to afford than ever.




"Affordable" is a floating word with just about no meaning in this context.  Affordability varies.  College is more expensive now because liberal nitwits have pressed the idea that it is necessary to get a good career and thus increased the size of the hordes clamoring to get.  And get in they did.  Just about any retard can find some college that will take him these days.  In many cases it is detrimental to spend 4 years accumulating liberal grievance studies.  Learn a fucking trade.  You will be better off.
Quote:



Are the middle class richer than ever?  As you can see from this graph of average family income in 2008 inflation-adjusted US dollars, there was a decline in 1980:



I'll admit, the spike under Clinton from '93 to '99 is a surprise to me, but that's been going down since 2000 and is almost back to the 1979 level.




But what do those dollars buy?  When I was a middle class kid growing up nobody had AC.  Dishwashers, too.  Now most everybody does.  Long distance phone calls were expensive.  Families have two cars now, not one.  The dollar buys a lot more of that kind of stuff than it used to.


--------------------


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #16170414 - 05/02/12 12:34 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
What also pisses me off, is companies that sell the houses, real estate companies, continue to raise prices while people aren't even paying them off for the houses they are already trying to sell.



You've never bought or sold a house, have you?

This is not at all how it works...people sell a house for as much as they can get for it...people buy a house for as little as they can pay for it...





that's bullshit. I actually happen to know a few real estate agents. It IS expensive in some cases to buy the house then flip it, and in some cases they don't flip it for much, but saying it is ALWAYS like that is total garbage. I've heard of houses going for 20 million dollars. Now a person selling the house gets a 5% commission. You are telling me the real estate company would buy the house for 19 million and sell it for 20 million? In that case 5% would be 1 million all together and the real estate agent would get the entire commission and the company would get nothing.

Give me a break. I know construction companies contract out their work for high prices to realtor's who will buy and flip the property, but no construction company will build a property and sell it for 19 million, unless it's a huge building for example empire state building, selling condos, in which case 19 million might be very small of a price for what they will sell the building for.





If the company bought it for $19 million, but then refused to sell it for $20 million, even though that was what the market could deliver, then that is an example of a sunk cost.  A company that did that wouldn't last for long.

In the real estate market, people sell their houses for as much as they can get and people buy them for as little as they can pay for it.  The fact that people somtimes lose money doesn't change that equation at all.




:rolleyes:

look I'm not trying to be sarcastic but do you actually believe that a house that goes for twenty million was bought for 18 million. I understand the 'idea' is to buy the house as low as possible and sell it as high as possible. But that's just the issue. You try and buy the cheapest house and sell it at the highest price! Now the problem is that in certain times someone is going to say: "I'm not buying your house for that much! Lower the cost or it doesn't get sold"

But when insurance companies are paying for your house, then you can buy whatever you want. This is the issue, in another time, you might say "I can't afford that house", and therefore people would lower the standard of what it could be sold for. But not today, it's screwed up the entire market and the entire economy.


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16170432 - 05/02/12 12:37 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

more bullshit. My grandfather had 4 cars, 5 kids, and worked at a lumber mill. Learn a trade you are better off? People who learn a trade get knocked off, for someone else with a 6 year college degree, who gets the lower level position as ENTRY level and knocks off the person doing the trade his whole life. You are so living in 2004 my friend


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: imachavel] * 1
    #16170447 - 05/02/12 12:40 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
What also pisses me off, is companies that sell the houses, real estate companies, continue to raise prices while people aren't even paying them off for the houses they are already trying to sell.



You've never bought or sold a house, have you?

This is not at all how it works...people sell a house for as much as they can get for it...people buy a house for as little as they can pay for it...





that's bullshit. I actually happen to know a few real estate agents. It IS expensive in some cases to buy the house then flip it, and in some cases they don't flip it for much, but saying it is ALWAYS like that is total garbage. I've heard of houses going for 20 million dollars. Now a person selling the house gets a 5% commission. You are telling me the real estate company would buy the house for 19 million and sell it for 20 million? In that case 5% would be 1 million all together and the real estate agent would get the entire commission and the company would get nothing.

Give me a break. I know construction companies contract out their work for high prices to realtor's who will buy and flip the property, but no construction company will build a property and sell it for 19 million, unless it's a huge building for example empire state building, selling condos, in which case 19 million might be very small of a price for what they will sell the building for.




He wasn't saying that at all.  You have no clue what you are talking about.  Nobody gets 5% on a 20M listing.  And I'm married to a top real estate agent in a town that has multi-million dollar homes.  And almost no realtors buy and sell properties.  They just represent in the sale.

Flipping is expensive.  You have a broker's commission, lawyers and bank fees.  Even if you don't do a fucking thing there is a 15% requirement.


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: imachavel]
    #16170471 - 05/02/12 12:44 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
more bullshit. My grandfather had 4 cars, 5 kids, and worked at a lumber mill. Learn a trade you are better off? People who learn a trade get knocked off, for someone else with a 6 year college degree, who gets the lower level position as ENTRY level and knocks off the person doing the trade his whole life. You are so living in 2004 my friend




What does your grandfather have to do with anybody else?  Nothing.  Most families then, if they had a car at all, had one.  Apparently he had a trade?????????

I don't want to break your heart but I wouldn't hire somebody with a six year degree to work in my trade.  Aside from the fact that they wasted six years of their life learning something utterly useless to their actual performance I wouldn't want to hire anybody who was so stupid as to think that was a good idea.


--------------------


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: imachavel] * 1
    #16170519 - 05/02/12 12:56 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
So what are you saying?  That you're against free market in real estate?




NO I'M MAKING A POINT! I'M NOT AGAINST THE FREE MARKET! I am simply saying that all this AIG shit and lack of old policies that loan companies used to sell houses where they got money from an insurance company that had private investors and traders trading bonds of the insurance company, and wall street making 19 million a year profits, while house prices continued to rise and rise, while the price of a candy bar has remained the same for the past 35 years, really destroyed the economy! The free market is fine, the government is corrupt. We should have a free market, but government policies that allow heavy private stock trading of very large public companies, while small businesses die and die and die and die is totally a hefty amount of bullshit.




What are you talking about?  "Lack of old policies"?  Wall Street firms making only $19 million a year in profits?

House prices have fallen recently, if you didn't notice.  Also, I don't know about the last 35 years, but I pay more now for a candy bar than I did a decade ago.

If you want an entirely free market, then you can't be against the trading of stock, or in fact against the prevention of any economic activity whatsoever.

Quote:

Of course free market should exist! But you know something is wrong when the free market exists in the sense that people will take your tax dollars and gamble them on the stock market!




Are you talking about the stock market crash?  Because, no, Lehman Bros. et al were gambling their own money, not tax dollars.

Quote:

And when others claim we didn't go broke until Obama was in office, and when other people claim republicans will fix the problem!




So you know something is wrong when...people think that a change in elected officials will fix a problem?  Is that what you're saying?  It's really hard to make anything coherent out.


Quote:

The government is like the goodfellas:

"we paid off everyone, everyone had their hands out for the taking"




Ah, well, you've compared the government to people in a movie, I can now completely see how your argument is supported.

Quote:

So a little political corruption never hurt anyone. People made their money fair and square and under legal conditions. Ok so what can you do? If you were getting 10% commissions of heavy trading who would you be to deny it? You work hard to connect people and make them way more money then what you get which is a tiny piece of what they are making. Fine. But when a hundred million houses aren't paid for, and the insurance company owes the lending companies every dollar by contract, and the insurance company is the biggest thing on the stock market, and the cabinet has decided to bail these companies out with your hard worked tax dollars, it doesn't seem like a 'free' market any more.




No, that sounds pretty much exactly how a free market works.  Or is it only a free market if the government isn't allowed to spend money?

We made money off of the bank bailout, btw.  Sound investment.

Quote:

What type of government takes all the money made by citizens and gives it away to large companies that went broke on their own venture?




Pretty much all of them, it seems like.  Standard practice.

Quote:

Sound like democracy? 95% of the wealth owned by less then 5% of the population.




Democracy is a political system, not an economic one.

Quote:

Pretty soon middle class will be less then 10% of the people.




I'll fix that: define the "middle class" as anyone who lives in a household that makes less than $1 million a year.  Bam.  Instantly healty and large middle class.

Quote:

Does shell lose money?




Sometimes. Why do you want them to lose money anyway?

Quote:

How can you not buy their gas?




Go to a different gas station?

Quote:

When bio fuel ethanol replaces gasoline and we are all using it instead?




How can you not buy Shell's gasoline when bio ethanol replaces gasoline?  What?

Quote:

Are people going to say "it's the free market let the dems and repubs take our money and sink it into the stock market under efi ethanol fuel incorporated" or whatever they'll call it at that time.




I've actually put money down betting that that's going to be 2012's hottest catchphrase.

Quote:

These companies are mega corporations! They are already going to get all your money!




If you'll notice, sometimes corporations go broke, and if corporations had all the money then no one would buy their products.

Quote:

Why does the government need to take hard earned tax dollars and blow it on the stock market!




To avoid a global economic catastrophe?

Quote:

It's god damn unconstitutional!




Where in the Constitution does it say that?

Quote:

When everyone is buying shell gas, how can they NOT make money? You give them EVERY DAMN DOLLAR YOU MAKE! And they deserve a bail out? Fuck when a company like that goes under, they file for bank ruptcy, then with the remaining cash they didn't sink bank into the business they retire in Nassau. How is our tax money going into the stock market the free market?!




So, Shell is making gobs of profits, and yet they're actually going bankrupt?  What kind of world do you live in, where up is down and down is up all at the same time?


--------------------


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16170532 - 05/02/12 12:57 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

But what do those dollars buy?  When I was a middle class kid growing up nobody had AC.  Dishwashers, too.  Now most everybody does.  Long distance phone calls were expensive.  Families have two cars now, not one.  The dollar buys a lot more of that kind of stuff than it used to.





Yea, those are my thoughts exactly.

When my mom was growing up they lived on one income.  They never went to restaurants, she never had fast food until she was in her 20s.  No cell phones, no cable, no ac, no dishwasher, no microwave, no computer, one car, no credit cards.  And also there was lots of work spent on the garden, canning and preparing food.  Even though there was only one income, both parents did work.

Its easy to have that kind of lifestyle these days on one income.  Super easy. 

Shit, my dad grew up the son of cotton pickers.  He didnt even have electricity and shared a two bedroom house with 6 siblings.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16170540 - 05/02/12 12:59 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
What also pisses me off, is companies that sell the houses, real estate companies, continue to raise prices while people aren't even paying them off for the houses they are already trying to sell.



You've never bought or sold a house, have you?

This is not at all how it works...people sell a house for as much as they can get for it...people buy a house for as little as they can pay for it...





that's bullshit. I actually happen to know a few real estate agents. It IS expensive in some cases to buy the house then flip it, and in some cases they don't flip it for much, but saying it is ALWAYS like that is total garbage. I've heard of houses going for 20 million dollars. Now a person selling the house gets a 5% commission. You are telling me the real estate company would buy the house for 19 million and sell it for 20 million? In that case 5% would be 1 million all together and the real estate agent would get the entire commission and the company would get nothing.

Give me a break. I know construction companies contract out their work for high prices to realtor's who will buy and flip the property, but no construction company will build a property and sell it for 19 million, unless it's a huge building for example empire state building, selling condos, in which case 19 million might be very small of a price for what they will sell the building for.




He wasn't saying that at all.  You have no clue what you are talking about.  Nobody gets 5% on a 20M listing.  And I'm married to a top real estate agent in a town that has multi-million dollar homes.  And almost no realtors buy and sell properties.  They just represent in the sale.

Flipping is expensive.  You have a broker's commission, lawyers and bank fees.  Even if you don't do a fucking thing there is a 15% requirement.




15%? So that is MUCH higher then 5%. That is HIGH in your area, in California the commission fee is 3% for real estate.


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineimachavel
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16170546 - 05/02/12 01:01 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
more bullshit. My grandfather had 4 cars, 5 kids, and worked at a lumber mill. Learn a trade you are better off? People who learn a trade get knocked off, for someone else with a 6 year college degree, who gets the lower level position as ENTRY level and knocks off the person doing the trade his whole life. You are so living in 2004 my friend




What does your grandfather have to do with anybody else?  Nothing.  Most families then, if they had a car at all, had one.  Apparently he had a trade?????????

I don't want to break your heart but I wouldn't hire somebody with a six year degree to work in my trade.  Aside from the fact that they wasted six years of their life learning something utterly useless to their actual performance I wouldn't want to hire anybody who was so stupid as to think that was a good idea.




so you and me both think experience counts MUCH MUCH more then any stupid piece of paper. Well tell that to other millions of companies that is in the buyers market, they hire people with an education these days based almost solely on that, and throw everyone else away like paper.


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: imachavel]
    #16170567 - 05/02/12 01:05 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I dont agree.  Recent grads have a harder time getting a job than people with experience.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: imachavel]
    #16170569 - 05/02/12 01:05 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:

He wasn't saying that at all.  You have no clue what you are talking about.  Nobody gets 5% on a 20M listing.  And I'm married to a top real estate agent in a town that has multi-million dollar homes.  And almost no realtors buy and sell properties.  They just represent in the sale.

Flipping is expensive.  You have a broker's commission, lawyers and bank fees.  Even if you don't do a fucking thing there is a 15% requirement.




15%? So that is MUCH higher then 5%. That is HIGH in your area, in California the commission fee is 3% for real estate.




:facepalm:  Not all costs are broker's commissions and not all houses are flipped at $19M.  Are you really that obtuse?


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: DieCommie]
    #16170575 - 05/02/12 01:06 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
I dont agree.  Recent grads have a harder time getting a job than people with experience.



Yep.


--------------------


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16170602 - 05/02/12 01:09 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
I dont agree.  Recent grads have a harder time getting a job than people with experience.



Yep.




QFT


--------------------


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #16170791 - 05/02/12 01:48 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:




What are you talking about?  "Lack of old policies"?  Wall Street firms making only $19 million a year in profits?

House prices have fallen recently, if you didn't notice.  Also, I don't know about the last 35 years, but I pay more now for a candy bar than I did a decade ago.

If you want an entirely free market, then you can't be against the trading of stock, or in fact against the prevention of any economic activity whatsoever.




where the fuck do you live? candy bar has been a dollar since I was born, maybe you are thinking of king size.

Quote:

Enlil said:

Are you talking about the stock market crash?  Because, no, Lehman Bros. et al were gambling their own money, not tax dollars.




:rolleyes: they were the only ones doing this? How many people were held accountable?

Quote:

Enlil said:

So you know something is wrong when...people think that a change in elected officials will fix a problem?  Is that what you're saying?  It's really hard to make anything coherent out.




yes change in elected officials will fix a problem. Definition of insanity: trying the same thing over and over and over again expecting different results when it didn't work the first, second, or third time

Quote:

Enlil said:

No, that sounds pretty much exactly how a free market works.  Or is it only a free market if the government isn't allowed to spend money?

We made money off of the bank bailout, btw.  Sound investment.




:lol: very sound investment. Should I even start to argue with that one? :wink:


Quote:

Enlil said:

I'll fix that: define the "middle class" as anyone who lives in a household that makes less than $1 million a year.  Bam.  Instantly healty and large middle class.






up is down and down is up? On my side really? You are starting to sound like George Bush. "define middle class as anyone who lives in a household that makes less then $1 million a year. Bam. Instantly healthy and large middle class" Sure, I really believe a family making $900,000 a year is middle class. You sure fixed the problem there.


Quote:

Enlil said:

Sometimes. Why do you want them(shell) to lose money anyway?






I could give a shit less. They've had more money in their time then most people could count in a life time. They squander that it's their damn problem.


Quote:

Enlil said:

Go to a different gas station?






:lol: that'll fix the problem. Helping out the small guy now :lol: Why buy from Ford when you could buy from Chevrolet? Why buy from Chrysler when you could buy from BMW? :shrug:


Quote:

Enlil said:

How can you not buy Shell's gasoline when bio ethanol replaces gasoline?  What?






My point being one day it will be the same thing all over again. A company making billions, when oil runs out probably one of these algae bio fuel companies will be selling tons of ethanol to you at your local gas station when you own a car that runs on ethanol. It will be the same story then, the company may go bank rupt, lot's of bail outs, people crying over it "they are so hard working, they deserve the bail outs, how can you argue wahh!" I mean really what do these people do for you? They are like any other business, they have their chance, when they ruin themselves, it's their fault. No restaurant owner who ruins their restaurant gets a bail out, why in the world should a large company? Is it easier to lose lot's of money these days then small amounts of money? Up is down and down is up? No kidding


Quote:

Enlil said:

I've actually put money down betting that that's going to be 2012's hottest catchphrase.






:laugh2: I hope so :thumbup:


Quote:

Enlil said:

If you'll notice, sometimes corporations go broke, and if corporations had all the money then no one would buy their products.






As though no one wants to make more money when they already have more money then they could ever really need. Well if only that's what people really thought :foreheadslap:

Quote:

imachavel said:Why does the government need to take hard earned tax dollars and blow it on the stock market!





Quote:

Enlil said:

To avoid a global economic catastrophe?






They've done a great job with that. We already had a HUGE deficit, then we took tax payers money, and bailed out companies that BLEW billions of dollars simply earned by commission, instead of pursuing and charging them as criminals for fraudulent actions. Watch inside job, wasn't just Lehman Brothers and AIG, and the fraudulent actions weren't just them spending personal money in a prostitution ring. Lot's of people wanted to press charges, this was never pursued. Now on top of the deficit we had we have bailing out these BILLION dollar companies and people making $19 million as COMMISSION. I have nothing against commission, as a broker at times there is nothing more fair then giving a hard earned commission by helping companies make a gazillion and getting a tiny percentage and nothing more wrong then calling a broker lazy. But a $19 million bonus? So he is making 10% commission on a 190 million dollar sale? Sounds a little strange to me, as though maybe more then 10% commission was being received, those companies make money not just for themselves, but for thousands of people to be employed. Although this isn't stipulated, those companies were not a government service, there is no guarantee they have to employ anyone. If they could run the company with two people there is no legal stipulation they have to hire anyone. It is indeed private profit for private companies.

So now on top of an already large deficit the government bailed out all these companies who were by some definitions fraudulent. Now we have a 14 trillion debt. Great way to avoid global catastrophe.


Quote:

Enlil said:

Where in the Constitution does it say that?






I guess that's the problem, it's not in the 16th amendment, it's not anywhere. Really, they can do whatever they want with your money. Remember F.D.R.'s quote of what a democratic government is supposed to be? He said fascism is when a group of people control everything instead of the people controlling the government. He said democracy is supposed to be the government is by the people for the people, not one group controlling everything. He said in such a scenario it's not democracy any more but fascism.

So it's not in the constitution? Maybe our constitution isn't based on democracy.


Quote:

Enlil said:

So, Shell is making gobs of profits, and yet they're actually going bankrupt?  What kind of world do you live in, where up is down and down is up all at the same time?




Didn't know they were going bankrupt. First time I've heard of that. I hate to quote another movie but as Gordon Gecko said:

"I make money on speculation, the illusion has become real. I create nothing, I own. You aren't naive enough to think we are living in a democracy are you?"

so democracy isn't a form of economy, it's a political system of government? Well what is in our constitution? What form of government is democracy supposed to represent anyway? Who is really not politically correct here?


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: DieCommie]
    #16170816 - 05/02/12 01:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
I dont agree.  Recent grads have a harder time getting a job than people with experience.




Not necessarily. Grads have a harder time getting a job then people with experience AND a graduate degree. Grads with no experience have an easier time getting a job then someone with experience and no graduate degree.

So someone is hiring, and out of these three people:

a) Johnny, 6 year degree, 10 years of experience

b) Micky, 6 year degree, no experience

c) Susan, 10 years experience, no degree.

People will hire in the following order:

Johhny

Then Micky

then Susan


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: imachavel]
    #16170839 - 05/02/12 01:55 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I dont think those are real people.  Im talking about real people.  :tongue:


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16170855 - 05/02/12 01:58 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:

He wasn't saying that at all.  You have no clue what you are talking about.  Nobody gets 5% on a 20M listing.  And I'm married to a top real estate agent in a town that has multi-million dollar homes.  And almost no realtors buy and sell properties.  They just represent in the sale.

Flipping is expensive.  You have a broker's commission, lawyers and bank fees.  Even if you don't do a fucking thing there is a 15% requirement.




15%? So that is MUCH higher then 5%. That is HIGH in your area, in California the commission fee is 3% for real estate.




:facepalm:  Not all costs are broker's commissions and not all houses are flipped at $19M.  Are you really that obtuse?




never said that. The argument was that houses are always sold at the highest prices and bought for the lowest prices. My argument was that if a house goes for 19 million then how does that fit in? Of course if a house is sold for the highest price possible, and the lowest cost house is usually bought, then things should be fair right? Wrong. Because EVERYONE wants to sell their house at the highest cost.

So often times what happens is that the prices come out about even. In which case they are all expensive. Now They don't all cost 19 million. But let me ask you, in the 70s certain times a house could be found as low as $65,000, for a nice three bedroom house. Where are you going to find that now? And in the late 70s the minimum wage was about $3.50 an hour, it's only double that now, so equivalently $65,000 for a three bedroom house would be $130,000 for a three bedroom house now. See that much these days? I sure don't. Not even in Idaho, and I kid you not I'm not just speaking from Florida experience.

Now with all that money for a mortgage being paid off for a very expensive house to a loan company by an insurance company, who is going broke while stock market traders are making million dollars BONUSES at the end of the year, pretty much FRAUDULENTLY, off the insurance company. And then when the company goes bank rupt, an already broke government with a deficit bails them out adding to a HUGER deficit. A bad business model made worst. 14 trillion we owe now. Funny, I thought you agreed with me on this. I thought our main argument was who was mainly responsible a democratic party or a republican party.

My answer = unfixable in a corrupt society. But ideas and solutions clearly vary


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineimachavel
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Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: DieCommie]
    #16170861 - 05/02/12 01:59 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
I dont think those are real people.  Im talking about real people.  :tongue:




didn't realize it was different with real people. You seem to have a different experience and viewpoint? :confused:


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinesonamdrukpa
Wayfarer


Registered: 10/18/11
Posts: 2,775
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: US presidential election 2012: will you vote? [Re: imachavel]
    #16170874 - 05/02/12 02:01 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not Enlil. :fuckyou:


--------------------


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