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 husmmoor
Invitro
Registered: 04/17/11
Posts: 557
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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 Re: How to end suffering on earth 101  [Re: Icelander]
#16154044 - 04/29/12 02:06 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
It's all personal imo. Especially suffering.
I thought you were talking about ending suffering generally not just your own.. but maybe that's only because you made the possible suffering of all of humanity your own? How noble! Or alternatively just very selfish!? 
Quote:
Icelander said:
I think it's far from certain we will be able to make happy people. In the mean time you can take action now to end suffering in humanity. If you really care that is. 
Yeah I don't see the end of suffering as an end in itself. In particular not if suffering is just supposed to be a state of mind, as you suggested. Or maybe I'm just a cruel bastard who delights in suffering.. I can't say. The reasons of the human mind often seem just the surface ripples of the ocean of maddening monsters fighting and copulating inside it? 
Edited by husmmoor (04/29/12 02:22 AM)
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: How to end suffering on earth 101 [Re: husmmoor]
#16154219 - 04/29/12 03:54 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yes I'm very noble. 
If the occasion arises where suffering becomes your main theme you may at that time see ending suffering as an end in itself and worthwhile. If from that suffering you develop empathy for others well... Until that time, why should you? Everyone is out for themselves and you are no different.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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husmmoor
Invitro
Registered: 04/17/11
Posts: 557
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: How to end suffering on earth 101 [Re: Icelander]
#16154310 - 04/29/12 05:18 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Is "suffering" some powerful God or Demon with a will of its own, unamendable to any significant degree by human thought or intent? As you just said suffering is above all personal.. and with that comes acknowledging that it comes thousands of different shades and varieties that might classify as some degree of suffering. Some last a short time, others a long time, and they all have differing couplings to the other complexes of the mind, etc. Some might seem to be almost completely unconnected to reality but nevertheless might be severe from a subjective point of view. And there's a whole class of neurotic "suffering" which are probably best understood as individual life projects that the "sufferers" wouldn't abandon even if they could do it relatively easily, i.e. by giving up some particular ideas. And many of the temporary states of suffering are really just serve as a powerful impetus for the afflicted to get going and move to a better state of existence.
So IMO.. a big improvement for your philosophy might be if you were to move away from the Buddhist-type all-encompassing defintion of suffering, and instead introduce some gradation, subdivision, etc. That is, unless every time a human laughs you hear his soul crying silently inside... so "all" really is suffering.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: How to end suffering on earth 101 [Re: husmmoor]
#16154345 - 04/29/12 05:50 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well I'm glad you got a chance to give your opinion.
I never once said everything is suffering or said everyone suffers to the same degree.
Maybe I need to state it again for those slow on the uptake. If you really want to end human suffering then don't procreate.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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husmmoor
Invitro
Registered: 04/17/11
Posts: 557
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: How to end suffering on earth 101 [Re: Icelander]
#16154383 - 04/29/12 06:37 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm well aware of what you said and of what you didn't say. I was suggesting you introduce a bit of accuracy to your language and perhaps even a sort of argument to your opinion.
If you feel satisfied with having stated that "suffering" is bad, that only humans suffer, and that therefore the way to end suffering is to stop human procreation then so be it. I wonder why you posted it in the philosophy section. But I shall not bother you henceforth.
Edited by husmmoor (04/29/12 06:37 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: How to end suffering on earth 101 [Re: husmmoor]
#16154445 - 04/29/12 07:29 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thanks
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: How to end suffering on earth 101 [Re: Icelander]
#16158840 - 04/30/12 05:21 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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“Yet, at the same time, as the Eastern sages also knew, man is a worm and food for worms. This is the paradox: he is out of nature and hopelessly in it; he is dual, up in the stars and yet housed in a heart-pumping, breath-gasping body that once belonged to a fish and still carries the gill-marks to prove it. His body is a material fleshy casing that is alien to him in many ways—the strangest and most repugnant way being that it aches and bleeds and will decay and die. Man is literally split in two: he has an awareness of his own splendid uniqueness in that he sticks out of nature with a towering majesty, and yet he goes back into the ground a few feet in order to blindly and dumbly rot and disappear forever. It is a terrifying dilemma to be in and to have to live with. The lower animals are, of course, spared this painful contradiction, as they lack a symbolic identity and the self-consciousness that goes with it. They merely act and move reflexively as they are driven by their instincts. If they pause at all, it is only a physical pause; inside they are anonymous, and even their faces have no name. They live in a world without time, pulsating, as it were, in a state of dumb being. This is what has made it so simple to shoot down whole herds of buffalo or elephants. The animals don't know that death is happening and continue grazing placidly while others drop alongside them. The knowledge of death is reflective and conceptual, and animals are spared it. They live and they disappear with the same thoughtlessness: a few minutes of fear, a few seconds of anguish, and it is over. But to live a whole lifetime with the fate of death haunting one's dreams and even the most sun-filled days—that's something else.”
― Ernest Becker, The Denial of Death
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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tribesman
Never satisfied
Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 948
Loc: Down by the river
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Re: How to end suffering on earth 101 [Re: Icelander]
#16159223 - 04/30/12 08:22 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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"Thou shalt not give birth reluctantly" ~ Otto Rank
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RonaldFuckingPaul
Our Dear Leader
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13,617
Loc: Straight Outta Compton 
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: How to end suffering on earth 101 [Re: tribesman] 2
#16159975 - 04/30/12 11:55 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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The way to end suffering is to transcend biology. Transhumanism and all that jazz.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Or we could do something that would work.
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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RonaldFuckingPaul
Our Dear Leader
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13,617
Loc: Straight Outta Compton
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: How to end suffering on earth 101 [Re: Icelander]
#16160458 - 04/30/12 01:48 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Or we could do something that would work.
Transhumanism might work. Humans will probably fuck it up though.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest
Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: How to end suffering on earth 101 [Re: Icelander] 1
#16160463 - 04/30/12 01:49 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Considering the fact that all humans are ignorant and don't know the extent of it usually until late in life if ever, the only way that one can surely be able to reduce suffering on earth is to not procreate.
The other great thing about this IMO is that it's a great way to feel absolved from the majority of responsibility and so ease your conscience.
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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards.
"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"
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whatsgrimace
Stranger
Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 5,239
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Re: How to end suffering on earth 101 [Re: Grapefruit]
#16160621 - 04/30/12 02:21 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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distinction between soul and body
the body is meat, no different than a deli-bought sandwhich. yet i can look back on experiences in my life and feel great joy that they were so fulfilling and mourning in that they have passed. how do you know that a family of thanksgiving turkeys dont feel the same
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: How to end suffering on earth 101 [Re: Icelander]
#16163324 - 04/30/12 10:55 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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The disgusting bitch in this video can't afford anything better to eat than worm-infested garbage, but the god damned breeding cow still manages to shit out a baby and inflict that life on that poor little kid.
Someone should cut her open like a fish, shit in her mouth, and dump her in a river.
God dammit I hate human beings.
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2012/05/01/lah-eating-pagpag.cnn
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Jwlst
Stranger
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Re: How to end suffering on earth 101 [Re: Diploid]
#16163399 - 04/30/12 11:13 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will die as one
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Jaegar
Formless One
Registered: 05/04/09
Posts: 2,217
Last seen: 8 months, 18 days
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Re: How to end suffering on earth 101 [Re: Diploid]
#16163854 - 05/01/12 01:28 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Unempowered women are often unable to act on their own behalf to obtain contraceptive services to regulate their childbearing; they are also the group most likely to believe that bearing many children will provide a bulwark against poverty in their old age. This points to the urgent need to improve women's education and job prospects if they are to assume greater control over their lives and move out of poverty. Programs that combine social and economic development and family planning services for poor women encourage them to have fewer children and thereby enhance their prospects of achieving a different, less-dependent kind of life. Such programs also provide women with the tools they need to attain those two goals.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Posts: 6,697
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Re: How to end suffering on earth 101 [Re: Icelander]
#16163959 - 05/01/12 02:26 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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How to end suffering on earth ?
Distribute wealth more fair and less children will be born.
Being poor and having many children is correlated.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: How to end suffering on earth 101 [Re: Diploid]
#16164187 - 05/01/12 05:57 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
The disgusting bitch in this video can't afford anything better to eat than worm-infested garbage, but the god damned breeding cow still manages to shit out a baby and inflict that life on that poor little kid.
Someone should cut her open like a fish, shit in her mouth, and dump her in a river.
God dammit I hate human beings.
http://cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2012/05/01/lah-eating-pagpag.cnn.html
Well I couldn't open that but I got to say Diploid that statement of yours is harsh. I completely understand your angst here but it might be helpful to remember her plight. Likely no education, no proper upbringing, no real love to help build self respect, no one that cares about her or really needs her, (likely why she wants that child) and nothing to do or look forward to on this earth. She's fucked but she's not awake enough to know how or what to do about it. The plight of much of humanity imo.
So unless you think you are the one to do that deed you named to her it might be better to wish her gone in a more painless way. Painless for you too.
I'm not saying I don't have such thoughts either but seeing them there in print I can only think that's not a path worth walking on. I'm not judging you in other words. Just making an observation.
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: How to end suffering on earth 101 [Re: Grapefruit]
#16164197 - 05/01/12 06:02 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grapefruit said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Considering the fact that all humans are ignorant and don't know the extent of it usually until late in life if ever, the only way that one can surely be able to reduce suffering on earth is to not procreate.
The other great thing about this IMO is that it's a great way to feel absolved from the majority of responsibility and so ease your conscience.
Yeah a nice side benefit. It's hard to ease your conscience once you really understand your part in the web of life. Not procreating may really be the only major part you could ever play in ending suffering on earth.
Think how many humans might not be born if you don't even have one child who then has two of their and they each have one or two or more and so on for generations to come. It's a big thing to do imo.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: How to end suffering on earth 101 [Re: Icelander]
#16164256 - 05/01/12 06:39 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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that statement of yours is harsh.
Try this link: http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/30/world/asia/philippines-pagpag-slums/index.html?hpt=hp_c1
It's not harsh enough. The bitch is willfully creating a defenseless little life with full knowledge of the hell it will be forced to live, complete with eating slimy, parasite-infested food from garbage dumps. That's a monstrous act of deliberate child torture.
Nothing I could wish for her is bad enough to compensate for someone who willfully tortures a child. Fuck her and all her ilk.
--------------------
Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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