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Offlinesaintphotios
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this LC clone tek is bullshit
    #16149714 - 04/28/12 12:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Either that or I suck at life.

So I'm trying to clone some fruits to LC, and I have a 16 gauge needle. But I'm not getting a damn bit of mycelium in the syringe. It just pushes the myc out of the way. So I'm guessing my LC's are going to be fucked. Any advice for a last-ditch effort on this?

Other than actually opening the LC jar lids and putting the damn thing in there, I don't know what to do. I'm pretty sure this is going to be contaminated.

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OfflineTwistedd
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: saintphotios]
    #16149764 - 04/28/12 01:00 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

You can take prints from some of your fruits...and go from there.
Have you tried inserting the needle into the fruit at different angles?

I'm sure someone more experienced will chime in...

Btw clarification: fruits =/= mycelium  ?

:goodluck:


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I am...  I seem to be in ecstasy and torture by both knowledge and mystery.

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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: saintphotios]
    #16149767 - 04/28/12 01:01 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

LC's in general are hit and miss. My advice would be to stick with MS for now. And hold your cloning until you move up to agar. Which I would recommend you eventually do.

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Offlinerustycobwebs
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #16149786 - 04/28/12 01:10 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

did you shake it up? Agitate it in some way? A magnetic stir bar and a stir plate are the most efficient tools for the job but a marble or other piece of sterilized, hard material could be in the LC jar to help you break up the mycelium at this point.

Right now though, unless you have a bit of something in the jar, it will be somewhere on the scale of difficult to impossible to break up the mycelium, depending on how well established it is.

Try sucking up some liquid, and squirting it forcefully back into the bottle. See if that helps you out. IF none of this works, go ahead and take the lid off in the bottle.

Remember to do a test jar, like a small grain pint or a PF cake first, to make sure your LC isn't going to ruin your hard work with a nice shade of green.


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and let it be so Praise Psilocybe

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OfflineTwistedd
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: rustycobwebs]
    #16149864 - 04/28/12 01:33 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

rustycobwebs I think he is having trouble inoculating his LC with fresh tissue, not sucking mycelium out of a colonized LC.


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I am...  I seem to be in ecstasy and torture by both knowledge and mystery.

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OfflineRiseup2day
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: rustycobwebs]
    #16149870 - 04/28/12 01:34 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Did you read his post? He is trying to get tissue by stabbing the needle through the fruit body and shooting that into the lc. That is what I'm getting since he said his last ditch effort would be to open the jar. Try doing this it worked for me so far on my agar dishes. Go with your last ditch effort but squirt a little bit of peroxide into your lc solution and then throw the piece of clone tissue in there. The peroxide should kill contams but slow down the myc but it'll recover in a few days and then grow. Good luck!

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OfflineRevolutiontcm
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: Riseup2day]
    #16150008 - 04/28/12 02:32 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

are you trying to do a biopsy threw the stem? If so switch to the cap. Just make sure your getting flesh from the middle and .ot gills. If you have to tear it open.


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:whathesaid::nonono:

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Offlinebabypp2
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: Revolutiontcm]
    #16150046 - 04/28/12 02:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Good thread, I always like them.


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Offlinesaintphotios
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: Revolutiontcm]
    #16150286 - 04/28/12 06:15 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Revolutiontcm said:
are you trying to do a biopsy threw the stem? If so switch to the cap. Just make sure your getting flesh from the middle and .ot gills. If you have to tear it open.




Fuck it, I gave up. I finally just shot them up with some MS after stabbing the shit out of this poor mushroom like a crazed maniac -- I ended up pounding it with the needle into a massacred pile of shroom putty, sobbing and praying to God a tiny sliver would somehow manage to work its way into the needle.

That didn't happen.... so as usual, I said fuck it.

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Offlinemasterlowping
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: saintphotios]
    #16150473 - 04/28/12 08:56 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I have tried multiple lc teks myself.  Never got one to work yet, but I keep trying. So I know your pain, lol.


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Offlinedodgem
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: masterlowping]
    #16150652 - 04/28/12 10:16 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I somehow got really lucky on the 1st LC I ever made.  Pretty sure it was just from a few ml's of spores I had left over. 

Since then, I have tried making about 4 others and none of them have worked.. I have tried using the good LC solution to start the other ones, but no luck.  I am a bit worried because I am almost out of my original LC.


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Walk where you like your steps

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OfflineKizzle
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: dodgem]
    #16150763 - 04/28/12 10:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I never got a clean LC from spores. When I finally made a clean one from transferring mycelium water from a grain jar I realized how much of a waste of time they are. They mycelium water works just as well and the grain jars used to produce the mycelium water grow way faster than mycelium growing in an LC.


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OfflineJonow
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: Kizzle]
    #16150798 - 04/28/12 11:05 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, the LC cloning tek never worked for me either. No matter how much I poked around none of the mushroom would go into the needle. Just buy agar.

I've always had great success with spores to LC, though.

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Offlinerustycobwebs
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: Jonow]
    #16198035 - 05/08/12 01:16 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

oh damn....sorry about that mispost up there, I really should work on my reading skills.

Honestly I would just take a little piece of it with a scalpel. Or, since LCs contaminate all the time anyway, just drop a little pin in it and see what happens

use a test jar and you won't have lost all that much LC is pretty cheap and easy, and fun I think. Even though it may often turn out to be a complete waste of time.


--------------------
and let it be so Praise Psilocybe

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OfflineRYEGRAIN
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: rustycobwebs]
    #16198135 - 05/08/12 02:06 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

LC is easy to do and always works for me. The only times I've had contamination were when I was first trying them out.

I did the stab tek using one fruit making two LCs. Both of the LCs worked out great. The  myc is all fat and uniform and super aggressive on the rye.

I suggest you get an 18 gauge which is pretty standard if you buy spores in a syringe from a reputable dealer. That and make sure you stab towards the base of the stem where the soft mycelium tissue is.

No one should bash on LCs, they are pretty much a stepping stone if you choose not to use agar. I still use LCs even after agar. haha.

Good luck.


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:fbsnugs:                    :fbsnugs:                    :fbsnugs:                    :fbsnugs:                    :fbsnugs:

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Invisiblecozc
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: RYEGRAIN]
    #16198614 - 05/08/12 06:50 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I think you just need to be careful with the stab tek. one time it worked and I got a couple nice tubs, the next I knocked up 40 quarts with untested clone lc :whatever:


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  <--- good day :mushroom2:

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InvisibleThadeous
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: cozc]
    #16199145 - 05/08/12 09:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Just chiming in.  I have never had a LC bear fruit.  And only barely had an LC grow myc at all.

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: Thadeous]
    #16199368 - 05/08/12 10:55 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The trick to the syringe biopsy tek is that you have to change the needle...
I had the same issue as you. These are hypodermic needles, thus are designed to slide easily and unobtrusively thru flesh. They'll do the same thing with the mushroom tissue.

I clipped off the end of a needle, and was careful not to pinch the remaining needle closed at the cut. This gave the needle a flat end. After flame-sterilizing, tearing open the base of a fresh mushroom from a cluster [do not use the cap!], cooling the end of the syringe on part of the inside of the mushroom, a simple scratch of the tip of the needle puts a tissue deposit on the end much more easily and can then be squirted into a LC.

Don't use spores for your LC, it's far more likely to contaminate than succeed, and will be a weaker sugar-water culture if it doesn't.
Don't use honey, it's anti-fungal... how do you think it preserves itself forever? Major advantage for contams.


If you get a small piece of tissue in Malt, Dextrose, or Karo LC, over the course of a few weeks it will grow into a beautiful orb. Wait until it has developed into the orb to shake it and break it up, then it will expand faster, but not much if you don't allow that orb to spread and defend it's liquid unharmed.

I have never failed or had contamination doing this.

The tek is definitely not bullshit.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: Violet] * 1
    #16199581 - 05/08/12 12:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Don't use honey, it's anti-fungal... how do you think it preserves itself forever?




New age hippie bs. Honey diluted to an appropriate concentration will grow all kinds of fungus.
Pure undiluted honey won't grow anything because it's hyperosmotic, not because it's anti-fungal.
Same as a jar of jelly. Ever seen moldy jelly? Of course not, too much sugar in it.

And yeah, all LC teks are bogus.
Cloning on agar doesn't take any longer, doesn't cost more, isn't any harder to do- but it's far more likely to work.

(You're right about hypodermic needles being designed not to take a chunk of flesh out though. :thumbup: )


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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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OfflineChez man
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: Doc_T]
    #16199767 - 05/08/12 12:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I was recently reading through a thread where RR states that honey is anti-fungal, but maybe he was just using the term loosely.

I have used a 3% honey solution as an LC with minimal success, but it's nothing like the explosion of myc growth I get from using malt extract or even just Karo.


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http://www.hedweb.com/hedab.htm

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: Chez man]
    #16199788 - 05/08/12 12:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Chez man said:
I was recently reading through a thread where RR states that honey is anti-fungal,




Link?

Malt kicks ass in LC. But I've had good results with honey too.
But LC is such a complete waste of time. Malt agar is just as easy to make and use and so much more likely to work.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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OfflineRevolutiontcm
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: Doc_T]
    #16199798 - 05/08/12 01:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)



--------------------
:whathesaid::nonono:

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Invisibledeucedbi9
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: Doc_T]
    #16199810 - 05/08/12 01:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Quote:

Violet said:
Don't use honey, it's anti-fungal... how do you think it preserves itself forever?




Honey diluted to an appropriate concentration will grow all kinds of fungus.

And yeah, all LC teks are bogus.
Cloning on agar doesn't take any longer, doesn't cost more, isn't any harder to do- but it's far more likely to work.

(You're right about hypodermic needles being designed not to take a chunk of flesh out though. :thumbup: )




Agree with your points here.
I understand your crusade against LC teks, but, to those just starting out and finding their new hobby's jargon totally bewildering, lc's and spore syringes seem less formidable, and, I believe, far less likely for the noob to foul up. They are also, often successful.

There's plenty of time to get into the more advanced teks, it's not like their going away any time soon. People will learn at their own speed and as they gain in confidence.
Personally, I've never yet made a PF cake, went straight to grains and bulk substrates before I'd even found a local supplier of coir, so used a mixture of farm animal manures and straw, via syringe to liquid culture. Didn't get into using agar until a long time a
later.
In fact my first attempt in '08 was a little off-putting.->

:eek:


--------------------
whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
it's a bugger to cycle in.

even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: Revolutiontcm]
    #16199830 - 05/08/12 01:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Awesome, thanks for the link. :thumbup:
I'm going to respectfully disagree. Meade wouldn't be possible if honey were anti-fungal.
Either way, LC is a waste of time, so the whole discussion is somewhat pointless.

@deuced: I've seen more new growers fail because of LC than any other cause.
Spores syringes aren't necessarily clean, so shooting spores into LC is just a gamble.
I used to support it but I've seen a lot of bad grows because of LC.


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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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Invisibledeucedbi9
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Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: Doc_T]
    #16200278 - 05/08/12 03:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Awesome, thanks for the link. :thumbup:
I'm going to respectfully disagree. Meade wouldn't be possible if honey were anti-fungal.





Quote:

Doc_T said:New age hippie bs. Honey diluted to an appropriate concentration will grow all kinds of fungus.




Mead is also made with an "appropriate" dilution of honey and water. Indeed, mead is little more than a honey LC, contaminated with yeast.:crazy2:

Quote:

Doc_T said:
@deuced:
Spores syringes aren't necessarily clean, so shooting spores into LC is just a gamble.





And yet people buy shed loads of spore syringes and inoculate PF jars all the time, with plenty of success story's out there.
Yes, LC's contaminate when they're done wrong but no more so I would think than first attempts with a MS to PF jar.
Many people seem to think that as with 'darkness' of spore syringes, the more the merrier, and so inoculate their LC's with too many cc's.
The more the worse be more the truth.
Inoculate LC's with no more cc's of spore than you would one hole in the PF jar, will increase the the chance of success.


--------------------
whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
it's a bugger to cycle in.

even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule

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InvisibleViolet
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
Re: this LC clone tek is bullshit [Re: Revolutiontcm]
    #16200495 - 05/08/12 04:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Revolutiontcm said:
I read that as well




This is new; he's said it before, nor was this site the first place I learned it

Diluting the honey will make it susceptible to contamination especially from bacteria before fungi... Thinking that diluting it makes it fully hospitable to our target organism is the same as thinking that diluting your arsenic makes it not a poison anymore...


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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