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OfflineHolmz
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Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully)
    #1612338 - 06/05/03 06:58 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

i'm in upstate new york and i went looking for mushrooms, here's the details:

Habitat: horse pasture where we spread the manure on some grassy hay/horse manure. all of the mushrooms were found in the same field and in the same type of habitat, usually in a group of 2-5.

Spore Print: all of them seem to be black, the thickest one is "jet black", but i suppose it could be a very very dark brown/blue/purple or something.

here's some pictures, if you need anymore pictures to help you identify them better let me know, i have a digital camera.








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OfflineGorian
Learning the artof Shroom

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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: Holmz]
    #1612378 - 06/05/03 07:14 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Those are not pan subbs.


--------------------


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OfflineHolmz
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: Gorian]
    #1612395 - 06/05/03 07:25 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

what are they then?


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Offlinecube421
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: Holmz]
    #1612450 - 06/05/03 07:47 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Panaeolus foenisecii perhaps?


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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: cube421]
    #1612777 - 06/05/03 09:25 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

nope there are no pan. foens there. foens grow in grass and lawns not in dung/hay

the only possible pan. subbs could be the light colored oval (unoppened) mushroom on the left side of one of the pics and the one that is a bit older that is a similar color. i doubt it but maybe if you could get some better pics....now that i think of it it looks a bit like Pan. semiovatus

http://www.bioimages.org.uk/HTML/T14476.HTM

please get better picks of some of the non-pan pap-looking ones (look on the pages i gave you and read descriptions) especially the small warm-tan-brown-light colored ones in the 2nd pic.

the rest are Panaeolus papilionaceus/sphinctrinus/campanalatus. the middle three on the third picture i believe to be of another genus. sorry my man.

http://www.mykoweb.com/CAF/species/Panaeolus_papilionaceus.html

http://www.mycena.sfsu.edu/hawaiian/Pastures/P_sphinctrinus.html


Edited by MagmaManiac (06/05/03 09:27 PM)


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OfflineHolmz
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #1612802 - 06/05/03 09:32 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

they look alot different now since they're drying, but if anything they're papailionaceus, so would it be ok to eat them safely? if they're just edible then it doesn't matter


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #1612827 - 06/05/03 09:40 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

all pan sphinctrinus, and the site posted detailing "panaeolus papillonaceus" has a picture of pan sphinctrinus also


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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: Mitchnast]
    #1612869 - 06/05/03 09:56 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

these are all very similar species (p. pap, p. sphinct., p. camp., and to some extent p. retirugis) and are debated on their identities.

i dont see any value in eating them. please make sure you get a proper id on ALL of them before you eat ANY of them.

if you really want, we can help you out. but thats for tomorrow, at least for me.

give some more details and take some detailed snapshots and at least i will take a look at it tomorrow or maybe today later if i feel like it.

one more time, dont eat those mushroom, especially those that dont look like the p. papil. (the middle 3 in the fourth photo) because the dont look like panaeolus and could be very well POISONOUS.


Edited by MagmaManiac (06/05/03 09:59 PM)


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OfflineHolmz
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #1614109 - 06/06/03 08:48 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

i'm going to go out again today and look for some more of the same ones and take pictures of them in their natural habitat. i did an overnight sporeprint of a few different caps and they ALL have jet black spore prints.


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InvisibleHermes_br
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: Holmz]
    #1614158 - 06/06/03 09:39 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I think there're some Copelandia cyanescens ...




http://www.mushroomjohn.com/species6d.htm


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OfflineHolmz
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: Hermes_br]
    #1614163 - 06/06/03 09:46 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

hermes, you may be right assuming that cyanescens grow in NY. i actually have been doing alot of research and i could be wrong, but i think that they're papil's from what i've looked at on this page:
http://www.cx.sakura.ne.jp/~kinoko/01eng/panaeolus_papilionaceus1.htm

i'm going outside right now to find some more in their natural habitat so i can get some pictures.


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InvisibleGumby
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: Hermes_br]
    #1614410 - 06/06/03 12:57 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I think there're some Copelandia cyanescens ...




I think you're wrong. Copelandia cyanescens doesn't grow in New York. They don't grow north of Florida.


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InvisibleHermes_br
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: Gumby]
    #1614454 - 06/06/03 01:31 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

They don't grow north of Florida.

OK then, if you say so...



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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: Gumby]
    #1614460 - 06/06/03 01:36 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Gumby Dude is correct. Copelandia species are known to occur in the tropics and neotropics of both hemispheres. and would be extremely rare in New York, meaning on or two mushrooms period.

Of course Paul stamets and I have also seen a few Copelandia shrooms int he Olmypia-Seattle, Washington area during a thirty year period. Paul and I have nbotrh seen Copelandia cyanescens here in the PNW and Paul in his book, Psilocybine Mushrooms of the World, he reported finding Panaeolus africanus, an African Copelandia on elephant dung at the Zoo. I do , however not think his id was correct since the elephants at the zoo have been here for years before he found that mushroom and I believe it was probably a normal copelandia cyanescens.

mj


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Offlinebugabuga420
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Registered: 07/18/02
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1614705 - 06/06/03 03:27 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

that sounds like some bullshit to me ... Errrr...... i mean elephant


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InvisibleGumby
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: bugabuga420]
    #1614759 - 06/06/03 03:44 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Someone's quite the comedian.


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OfflineHolmz
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: Gumby]
    #1615043 - 06/06/03 05:43 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

ok, we've estabilished what they AREN'T, but what ARE they? mjshroomer? you didn't tell us what you thought they were


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: Holmz]
    #1615099 - 06/06/03 05:56 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

They look like a panaeolus but the images are to small to make a positive id. And then again they could be Panaeolina foenisecii.

I cannot tell form your photo becasue of the bad lighting int he images.

mj


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OfflineHolmz
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1615123 - 06/06/03 06:05 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

sorry about the pictures, here's a picture i took of some freshly found ones that're exactly the same as the ones i found yesterday. i'll upload more pictures once my limit is resetted.


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InvisibleGumby
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: Holmz]
    #1615134 - 06/06/03 06:10 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I'm thinking they could be some type of active panaeolus. Then again they might be Pan. antillarium(sp?)... John, what you think?

That last picture was much better, BTW.


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OfflineHolmz
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: Gumby]
    #1615351 - 06/06/03 07:51 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

here're more pics:





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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: Gumby]
    #1615676 - 06/06/03 10:46 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

maaan, i say P. campanulatus, look at the teeth on the side of the cap. else, its one of the complex.

antillarium has whitish to grayish gills when young, turning blackish from the spores in age. so check the young one to see if it has whitish gills.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: Gumby]
    #1616047 - 06/07/03 04:13 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Panaeolus campanulatus
mj


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: Gumby]
    #1616053 - 06/07/03 04:22 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Gumby Dude,

here is a piucture of panaeolus antillarum.

They grow from Copelandia cyanescens size to these monsters here.


mj


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OfflineHolmz
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1616164 - 06/07/03 06:43 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

the only thing about the bell cap pan. is that it has more of a smooth/shiny cap, these didn't have that except for the older ones that took on the "turtle shell" look. i actually considered them too but after i looked at them in the audubon guide, i didn't think that's what they were. i'm going to go out and get some more fresh ones which'll make for better pictures.


Edited by Holmz (06/07/03 06:46 AM)


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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: Holmz]
    #1616368 - 06/07/03 12:11 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

wow those really are monsters.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: Holmz]
    #1616738 - 06/07/03 04:25 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Holmz, her eis a picture of P. campanulatus which is the same shroom. compare with your secpond foto posted on page one of this thread.



mj


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OfflineHolmz
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1616801 - 06/07/03 05:01 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

well, whatever it is, is it definatly not active?


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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: Upstate New York Pan. Subb. Find (hopefully) [Re: Holmz]
    #1616879 - 06/07/03 05:46 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

yes, definately not active




..i think...


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