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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
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SNIPERS!!
    #1610948 - 06/05/03 11:49 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Simpson berates 'trigger-happy' troops

Owen Gibson
Thursday June 5, 2003

Simpson: Americans 'lost control'

BBC news reporter John Simpson has hit out against the "trigger-happy" behaviour of US troops in Iraq and claimed he saved an old Iraqi man from being shot by gung-ho marines.

The veteran reporter, who spent time with American forces in Tikrit, praised British troops for their conduct during the war but said in an interview with Soldier magazine that the Americans "lost control".

"They lost all control - screaming, shouting and kicking people," Simpson said, adding that US soldiers' fear of snipers led to a 'shoot first, ask questions later' attitude.

"One of the marines shouted 'Snipers!' and put up his gun, pointing it at a man on a rooftop. I could see it was an old boy putting out a blanket to air and I said to him in a quiet voice that I would be the witness at his trial for murder if he pulled the trigger. He stopped," said the BBC reporter.

Simpson said he believed British troops had handled the situation better because of their years of experience in Northern Ireland, where he began his career as a reporter in 1969.

"The benefits from the army's Northern Ireland experience have been considerable. I saw that experience put to really good use in Basra. British soldiers didn't treat the local people like enemies, but like citizens that needed help. It was the same in Bosnia and Kosovo," he said.

"In Iraq you could see the stark difference between the way the Americans behaved and how the British did things. It was Northern Ireland that gave the British that experience and that edge."

The veteran foreign correspondent said the situation he experienced in Tikrit would never have arisen with British soldiers.

"They are so much in control. We have a first-class army, which is excellently disciplined. The American military culture does not have the business of careful control of firing weapons. If they took a leaf or two out of the British handbook they would do themselves and everyone else a favour," he said.

Simpson was wounded by US troops during the conflict in a horrific "friendly fire" incident that killed his translator Kamaran Abdurazaq Muhamed and 17 others, as well as causing 45 injuries.

Simpson filed a remarkable report by phone just minutes after the bomb landed on the convoy, breaking off at one point to tell a US army medic coming to his aid: "Shut up. I'm broadcasting... Oh yes, I'm fine - am I bleeding?."

The BBC later showed pictures of the tragedy shot by cameraman Fred Scott, who at one point is seen wiping blood from his lens, of Simpson and others running around trying to treat the wounded in the immediate aftermath of the bombing, while vehicles burned in the background.

Speaking about the incident in the interview with the Ministry of Defence magazine, Simpson recounted the horrific attack in detail for the first time.

"We were going forward with a convoy of Kurdish and American forces," he recalled. "As we approached a town several Iraqi tanks fired at us and the American commander called up an air strike. Two F-14s came in low and I saw the missile leave the aircraft."

It landed a few yards away, the explosion blowing up cars in the convoy, most of which were laden with ammunition.

"There was a lot of panic and unpleasant sights. People burning to death or staggering around with their insides in their hands. Our translator, Kamaran, had some shrapnel through the femoral artery and I don't think he stood a chance," said Simpson.

The rest of the BBC team travelling with Simpson when the attack happened sustained minor injuries and the reporter told of his pride in his team.

"My whole team behaved superbly, nobody lost it and I was very proud of them. They behaved in the finest traditions of the BBC."

Simpson, who sustained ruptured eardrums and remains deaf in his left ear, said he would like to see justice done for Mr Muhamed's family.

"We owe it to them to find out why it happened and to see if it's possible to avoid it in the future. And I'd like to see what disciplinary measures were taken. It is not a crusade but a desire to see what went wrong," said Simpson.

In the interview, Simpson also reminisces on his previous assignments and criticises both the US and British forces for their conduct during the siege of Sarajevo in the 1990s.

"It was terrible, horrifying and wicked. It was a war crime that went on for three years and was appalling. I didn't feel that Britain or the Americans came out of it very well, and I don't think the BBC covered itself in glory," he said.

http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/story/0,7493,970952,00.html


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: SNIPERS!! [Re: Xlea321]
    #1611103 - 06/05/03 01:05 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Thats pretty crazy.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: SNIPERS!! [Re: Xlea321]
    #1611113 - 06/05/03 01:13 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

america has the most accurate equipment in the known universe! :mad:  It must have been a pocket of iraqi resistance...


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: SNIPERS!! [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1611174 - 06/05/03 01:38 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I bet it was those BMD's (Blankets of Mass Destruction) I've been hearing about. The Iraqi on the roof was obviously attempting to release deadly anthrax and/or dust spores that were hidden inside the blanket, by shaking them out into the air. It just goes to show how cunning the Iraqi people are at hiding their weapons.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: SNIPERS!! [Re: Edame]
    #1611180 - 06/05/03 01:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Exactly, lesser soldiers mistake this caution as trigger happiness.


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: SNIPERS!! [Re: Xlea321]
    #1611181 - 06/05/03 01:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Simpson was wounded by US troops during the conflict in a horrific "friendly fire" incident that killed his translator Kamaran Abdurazaq Muhamed and 17 others, as well as causing 45 injuries.



I'm sure he's as unbiased as you Alpo.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: SNIPERS!! [Re: Edame]
    #1611578 - 06/05/03 03:09 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

The Iraqi on the roof was obviously attempting to release deadly anthrax and/or dust spores that were hidden inside the blanket, by shaking them out into the air

LOL!!  :grin:


--------------------
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Offlinerommstein2001
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Re: SNIPERS!! [Re: Xlea321]
    #1611786 - 06/05/03 03:48 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Hmm. I wonder if snipers lined roof-tops in N. Ireland, or suicide bombers ran rampant? When you have a bunch of kids 18-25 who have never had their lives put in danger before, now in constant fear of being shot, you are bound to have a few civilian casualties.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: SNIPERS!! [Re: rommstein2001]
    #1611806 - 06/05/03 03:53 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

GOLLY GOSH GEE WILICKERS!!!

They should wait until at least one had been shot before responding!  :wink:


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: SNIPERS!! [Re: rommstein2001]
    #1611819 - 06/05/03 03:56 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Hmm. I wonder if snipers lined roof-tops in N. Ireland

Yep. Constantly.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: SNIPERS!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1611821 - 06/05/03 03:57 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

They should wait until at least one had been shot before responding!

It's kinda hard to shoot someone with a blanket.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: SNIPERS!! [Re: Xlea321]
    #1611855 - 06/05/03 04:06 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

They should wait until at least one had been shot before responding!

It's kinda hard to shoot someone with a blanket.




Here's a thought, if I was in a war zone and saw someone on a rooftop with a blanket, I might shoot as well. Not because of the blanket, but because of what might be under the blanket. But seeing as it's you, I suppose it's easier to just assume it was obvious that there was no possibility of that.

Stuff like this is why it's so easy to laugh at you. You laugh at those who believe the first thing they read, yet you jump all over it when it's something you WANT to believe. Any back-up for the reporters version of events? Were you there to see it? Any chance the guy (having been wounded, allegedly by US weapons), might have a bone to pick?


Quote:

"They are so much in control. We have a first-class army, which is excellently disciplined.



Hmmm.... didn't I recently see a headline about British soldiers doing things they shouldn't? I'll have to see if I can find it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: SNIPERS!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1611861 - 06/05/03 04:07 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)



--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (06/05/03 04:12 PM)


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Offlinerommstein2001
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Re: SNIPERS!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1612000 - 06/05/03 04:58 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

:laugh:

Better them than me. Have you ever been in constant mortal fear? Ever fought in a war? Didn't think so.

(QUICK REPLIED)


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Edited by rommstein2001 (06/05/03 04:58 PM)


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: SNIPERS!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1612003 - 06/05/03 04:58 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Damn Brits. Look at all the shit they've caused throughout history and they're STILL uncivilized brutes.

I'll never forgive them for the way they treated the Indians.



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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinerommstein2001
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Re: SNIPERS!! [Re: rommstein2001]
    #1612012 - 06/05/03 05:03 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

And look at that! TWO sources!
:laugh: :laugh:
((Another Quick Reply))


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: SNIPERS!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1612108 - 06/05/03 05:35 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Any back-up for the reporters version of events? Were you there to see it? Any chance the guy (having been wounded, allegedly by US weapons), might have a bone to pick?





I take it you didn't see the footage at the time? The camera man wiping blood from his camera lense, the jeeps on fire, the medics attending the dying in the grass. The US killed 17 of their own side in this one incident alone.

Lets not forget the RAF pilot shot down by the patriot, or Terry Lloyd and his colleagues, or the reporters in the Palistine hotel fired on by the US tank. Or how about the British soldier killed by a "cowboy" Tankbuster pilot, or the 4 Canadians in Afghanistan killed by US pilots.

Yeah, I guess that John Simpson just has a bone to pick that's all, there's obviously nothing to his version of events.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Offlinerommstein2001
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Re: SNIPERS!! [Re: Edame]
    #1612125 - 06/05/03 05:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

You are making references to friendly fire, not instances of Iraqi torture by Americans. No war has EVER gone by without friendly fire casualties.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: SNIPERS!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1612126 - 06/05/03 05:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Here's a thought, if I was in a war zone and saw someone on a rooftop with a blanket, I might shoot as well

I'm sure you would.

Not because of the blanket, but because of what might be under the blanket.

Here's a clue. If you're a sniper do you think it's a good idea to stand on rooftops waving blankets at groups of enemy soldiers? Or is it best to stay out of sight? Now before you hit "reply" take a second to think about what you are saying.

"Points" like these are why it's so easy to laugh at you.

Any back-up for the reporters version of events? Were you there to see it? Any chance the guy (having been wounded, allegedly by US weapons), might have a bone to pick?

Well he's probably the most senior and highly-respected BBC reporter with decades of experience. There's not really any point in lying. And his convoy was bombed by gung-ho americans - that's the truth. What else can he say?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: SNIPERS!! [Re: rommstein2001]
    #1612148 - 06/05/03 05:46 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Where are we talking about torture on this thread exactly? I mentioned friendly-fire, because the title of the article we're all discussing is called "Simpson berates 'trigger-happy' troops". As I was trying to illustrate using crude sarcasm, US troops seem to have a habit of shooting up their allies on a fairly regular basis.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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