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InvisibleIcelander
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Unbinding cultural chains.
    #16097338 - 04/16/12 12:14 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

First of all, imo, this cannot be done in total.

I think with my first acid trip in 1970 I got the vague idea that we were all bound by culture although I couldn't have named it that way at the time.  But I was determined to free my self.

Over the next 40 or so years this was always in some ways a goal and after almost forty years I had about given up on any real successes in this area and I more or less resigned myself to complete surrender to being a pawn of culture.

  Then I read Becker's books on Death Anxiety and over a couple of years (I'm slow) it dawned on me that the only real way to tackle this problem was to lessen as much as possible my fear of impermanence or fear of death.  Not saying this is totally possible but once the fear of death or impermanence is gone to some degree nothing much has any real hold on what you do with your life.  After setting about this for a couple of years in ernest I believe I am seeing solid results for the first time.

Here's a small example.  Health care.  As I've aged I have symptoms that the medical profession consider's possible signs of disease.  They have a huge body of yearly screenings and tests, treatments and such that one can commit to in trying to combat these possible disease problems.  This is something in the past I worried a lot about. Way too much and I was always worried that something was going wrong feeling like I should follow the doctors advice and have expensive screenings and tests.  On one test I had a lump in my prostate that the doc told me with a frown I needed to have biopsied to see if it was cancer and then we could proceed with treatments and surgery's .

  The issue here was that I don't trust the medical profession in many ways. I feel it is designed to chain us to our fear of death and they have created a huge lucrative industry around this and they honesty don't give a flying fuck about me personally but they are bound and determined to sell me products by scaring me about everything they can.

Anyway that was years ago now and I've done nothing they've recommended because I had lost much of my fear of dying.  Ya see I don't want to be chained to living my life based on what people I don't respect or trust tell me I should be doing.  Now I could die as a result of this choice but the fact that it was my choice based on what I wanted has given me a feeling of selfhood and personal respect I've not had before so it's worth it.  Not to mention the moments of actual joy when feeling much less fear aroung my personal impermanence.

In conclusion I'd say that conquering to some degree ones death anxiety, is the key to personal freedom.

And I'll add to do that Imo one must start on a hard road that begins with the full acknowledgement that one does fear death to some degree and then setting about finding and facing that fear on a daily basis whenever presents itself.


Anyone agree?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: Icelander]
    #16097609 - 04/16/12 01:28 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I agree.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: Icelander]
    #16097661 - 04/16/12 01:44 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I don't know you, but most of the people I've seen who refuse to follow medicle advice with relatively serious things (like possible cancer) seem to be doing it percisely because they are afraid to die.  They simply entrench themselves in complete denial that anything is wrong... and then eventually go back to the doctor essentially hopelessly ill.

There's plenty to be said for questioning medicine, especially because of the racket they've managed to push everyone into (why does it take months to get to see a doc in many areas and cost 150$ for a primary care visit for 15min?- a constraint on the number of physicians as well as lack of freedom to choose your own treatments).

That said, if a male lives long enough, there's quite a high chance they will get cancer of the prostate, and I urge you to get it check out.  About all it takes in most cases is a sort of "injection" through the wall of the rectum- not harmful and not too expensive.

After that, you can diagnose the lump and if it is cancer, make an informed decision.  For older people who are otherwise healthy and without much life expectancy, it can make sense to not treat slow moving cancers, but it sounds like you're young enough where it would be worth it.


Prostate removals nowdays don't neccesarily result in incontinence or importence.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: Icelander]
    #16097762 - 04/16/12 02:19 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"The issue here was that I don't trust the medical profession in many ways. I feel it is designed to chain us to our fear of death and they have created a huge lucrative industry around this and they honesty don't give a flying fuck about me personally but they are bound and determined to sell me products by scaring me about everything they can."

I think you've left some of your "cultural chains" about here.

Doctors are people just like you or me who made the decision to go into the medical profession. The reasons for this vary from person to person, from being pushed into it by their parents, the desire for money, to the genuine desire to learn about human biology and to help cure what ails people. It has always been a profession which, through the hippocratic oath, is irrevocably tied with selflessness.

However, that is not to say that the health industry profits a great deal from this practice, and will make every effort, as any business would, to maximize profits. Curiously enough, part of that is having a health industry that does actually work, and that is effective, or else no one would ever use it.

To that extent, the health industry will have to beat placebo.

Whether the health industry only has an illusion of effectiveness is one question, but another is how likely is it that one could put that many hungry people into communication with each other and end up with wrong answers gone uncorrected for long? This is the marvel of science, put as many people as possible in communicado and what will result is the endless re-correction of falsities. :shrug:



Now, the funny thing is that this whole thing is a different discussion from whether or not one has a fear of or aversion to dying. A person can do whatever they want in regards to their health, whether its going to a clinic, visiting a witch doctor, or waiting it out and hoping that one's own body will nuke away any unwanted problems. All of these methods are not really in discussion with whether a person does or does not want to die. Sure, many people will not wish to die from an illness, but the way they cope with it is different. Alternatively, a person could have an illness and want to die, or at least, have no reason to provide that would incline them to drive towards a solution to their health, however much or little effort it would be.


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Offlinekeeponrockin
infinite layers


Registered: 09/22/09
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: xFrockx]
    #16097912 - 04/16/12 03:03 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

as i see, you and john are beating Icelander because of the decision he made and are missing the point of the discussion. i'm not saying that we shouldn't care for each other but he's a very strong character, very rational and reasonable and totally capable of making decisions.

Quote:

In conclusion I'd say that conquering to some degree ones death anxiety, is the key to personal freedom.




i agree with him but right now im not able to develop a more complex response (no time).


last and least, seems like someone has found a dictionary.


--------------------


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: keeponrockin]
    #16097924 - 04/16/12 03:07 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not beating him for anything, good sir. I was just trying to differentiate between caring for ones own health and caring about dying. In his post I felt the two were sortof muddled together.

If he wants to stop taking care of himself and surrender to whatever the consequences may be, more power to him.

If he wants to go the self-cure route for his potential prostate growth, then more power to him, I just won't have it confused with letting go of death anxiety.

Death anxiety may be one fear, but how about fear of doctors?


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: johnm214]
    #16097938 - 04/16/12 03:12 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
I don't know you, but most of the people I've seen who refuse to follow medicle advice with relatively serious things (like possible cancer) seem to be doing it percisely because they are afraid to die.  They simply entrench themselves in complete denial that anything is wrong... and then eventually go back to the doctor essentially hopelessly ill.

There's plenty to be said for questioning medicine, especially because of the racket they've managed to push everyone into (why does it take months to get to see a doc in many areas and cost 150$ for a primary care visit for 15min?- a constraint on the number of physicians as well as lack of freedom to choose your own treatments).

That said, if a male lives long enough, there's quite a high chance they will get cancer of the prostate, and I urge you to get it check out.  About all it takes in most cases is a sort of "injection" through the wall of the rectum- not harmful and not too expensive.

After that, you can diagnose the lump and if it is cancer, make an informed decision.  For older people who are otherwise healthy and without much life expectancy, it can make sense to not treat slow moving cancers, but it sounds like you're young enough where it would be worth it.


Prostate removals nowdays don't neccesarily result in incontinence or importence.





why don't you come over and check it out for me
:ass:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: xFrockx]
    #16097944 - 04/16/12 03:14 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

like I said it's not going to be perfect

plus this is only an example.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: Icelander]
    #16097989 - 04/16/12 03:26 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

The thing I'm wondering now is that you seem to have at least two different kinds of overall fears at play here. One being the fear of dying, the other being experiencing things you don't want to experience while living.

I mean let's be honest here. You probably don't want some doctor cutting up your butt hole, but it's not going to kill you. Cancer, however, will.

So basically while you might have less fear of death, you've still got a significant fear of bodily discomfort, it seems.

So maybe in this post you've shown, perhaps accidentally, that death anxiety isn't really all of it. You've still got significant stress/fear/apprehension in your life that is limiting your decisions. And how can you ever be personally free while that is the case?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: xFrockx]
    #16098151 - 04/16/12 04:00 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Here's another example.  I have limited financial resources and yet went ahead and retired anyway. The fact is that, especially if I'm not frugal I'll run out of money in about 10 years or less.  I decided to retire anyway and I'm spending my money faster than when I was working.  IMO this is because I have less fear (not no fear) and so am willing to trade an unknown future for a fuller and more relaxed  now.

While I have some fear of bodily discomfort I've had surgeries before in my life. I'm not particularly afraid of being cut.  I think the deciding factor is more that I've come to realize that my life is not very important. That it's a temporary affair that I'm not very in control of. That what's important is the present and not any future and especially one that continues indefinitely.  If I'm not immortal and I'm not more important than anything else what possible difference would a few years give or take make?  And why do I feel better and more calm when I take these actions?  Why does life seem richer and less important? 

I know I'm always going to have some level of fear. I'm talking about less fear and more fun. And that's all I'm talking about.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #16098184 - 04/16/12 04:09 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I've never been a huge fan of fun.



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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: xFrockx]
    #16098422 - 04/16/12 05:02 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

That's easy to see. Anyway the idea for me here is to make choices, to the best of my limited ability, to do what I want to do rather than what is necessarily prescribed by the  culture. Of course this is going to be imperfect. My only guide is how I feel. 

Culture decides how we are all supposed to feel about how it is structured and how we like it or whether we want to stick around to the bitter end or not and 10,000 other things.  If one can take a few of these choices back for themselves then that would imo be a more authentic life.  This would be, for a few of us, more important than a long life.  Look I've watched my parents go though this and the end was not good let me tell you and the doctors were right there by my mothers side siphoning off every dollar they could after they had the audacity earlier to put her in a state run mental institution and then neglect her there and then fight us in court to get her released because they wanted the medicare funds.  She was never a danger to herself or others.  If one does not learn from the experiences of others then they can have the fun of learning the hard way.

It seems to me you'd understand this somewhat considering your spiel here is to try and get others to question their beliefs.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: Icelander]
    #16099630 - 04/16/12 09:42 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

You are lucky that you do not live in a culture that favors early retirement, relaxed living and fun as with your contrary nature, you would work 80 hour weeks in a lousy job just to piss them off. :yesnod:


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OfflinejackSpearows
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: Icelander]
    #16099647 - 04/16/12 09:46 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

look the personality is going to fear death.  but deep down the person knows its just a bunch of bs and only a game.  if you got an inspiration, then ride it.


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Offlinequestioneverything
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: jackSpearows]
    #16099702 - 04/16/12 10:02 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Icelander, though we may disagree because I have a lot to learn, I see a lot of me in your op. You said it all, so I'll just say I agree.


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: xFrockx]
    #16100045 - 04/16/12 11:11 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

you seem to have at least two different kinds of overall fears at play here. One being the fear of dying, the other being experiencing things you don't want to experience while living.

So maybe in this post you've shown, perhaps accidentally, that death anxiety isn't really all of it.

the fear of physical discomfort can easily be linked to a fear of death :shrug:


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: Icelander]
    #16100087 - 04/16/12 11:23 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

it makes complete sense that a reduction in death anxiety would coincide with a reduction in your need for cultural values to validate your existence. one of the great insights that becker gave us is that culture largely functions as a system of unconscious death denial. with less fear of death comes a lessening in your need for cultural validation.

if i was in your situation i would get my prostate checked out but it's your decision. it's good to hear your feeling well and practising what you preach :thumbup:


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


Edited by blingbling (04/16/12 11:24 PM)


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: Icelander]
    #16100369 - 04/17/12 12:53 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

are you trolling? you've cut and pasted other peoples words in a few threads now, probably seven considering your post count. what's up with that? :angrykidface:


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: blingbling]
    #16100398 - 04/17/12 01:07 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

The account Isabel57 is probably run by a bot/script thingy.  There have been a few of these turning up.

Generally the style is that they copy and paste a portion (a sentence usually) of another user's post.  Usually they precede the copy-pasted portion with a period.

If  you see this crap, please report it to a moderator.

I don't know what the point of this kind of spam is- maybe they copy-paste nonsense for a while until submitting the commercial messages.


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: johnm214]
    #16100419 - 04/17/12 01:15 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

ah, i see.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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Offlineusulpsychonaut
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: blingbling]
    #16100488 - 04/17/12 01:49 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I only brush my teeth about twice a week and my teeth are excellent. I believe that fast food is healthy and meat is good spiritual food. Sugar and caffeine is excellent stuff. I think about death more often, my anxiety is more about never having enough money or sex. If I was the dictator of the world, I'd eliminate most of the health system, turn the hospitals into checking out clinic's. World is over populated, what sense is there in keeping everyone alive? Ambulance medics should euthanize automobile crash victims on site.


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #16100596 - 04/17/12 02:46 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

my anxiety is more about never having enough money or sex.

anxiety over money and sex could also be linked to death anxiety. just sayin  :grin:


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: blingbling]
    #16100614 - 04/17/12 03:05 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I just wish all the hot babes would leave me the fuck alone! :crankey:


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16100646 - 04/17/12 03:28 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

:seriousthumbsup:


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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OfflineDesert Elf

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 765
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #16100832 - 04/17/12 05:52 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

usulpsychonaut said:
I only brush my teeth about twice a week and my teeth are excellent. I believe that fast food is healthy and meat is good spiritual food. Sugar and caffeine is excellent stuff. I think about death more often, my anxiety is more about never having enough money or sex. If I was the dictator of the world, I'd eliminate most of the health system, turn the hospitals into checking out clinic's. World is over populated, what sense is there in keeping everyone alive? Ambulance medics should euthanize automobile crash victims on site.




The world can not get overpopulated. Just more and more uncomfortable.


--------------------
Om Bhur Bhuvah Svaha
Tat Savitur Varenyam
Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi
Dhiyo Yo Nah Prachodayat


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16101028 - 04/17/12 07:59 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I just wish all the hot babes would leave me the fuck alone! :crankey:




Post the picture again from 1972 with you and the two babes in the water.  That was hot.  And 40 years ago...


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #16101776 - 04/17/12 12:04 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Time is a meaningless concept. :shrug:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16101853 - 04/17/12 12:37 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Time is a meaningless concept. :shrug:




I hear you.  Well not as well as I used to but I still hear you.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #16101875 - 04/17/12 12:44 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

:grin:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16101897 - 04/17/12 12:50 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
:grin:




Tell you what things don't pick up soon I'm going to have to go out hoggin'.  Fat girls need love too and that may be my callin'.  Fat girls from Texass that say SOOOOIIIEEEE or was that an Arkansas razorback.  Sounds painful gettin' cut by a razorback. 

Culturally speakin' of course.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #16101939 - 04/17/12 01:08 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

While you go a-hoggin'...




Ima goin' hillbilly hand-fishin'!



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Offlinequestioneverything
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16101960 - 04/17/12 01:14 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

What....the hell..are those?

What disgusting excuses for life.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: questioneverything]
    #16102073 - 04/17/12 01:59 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

These are southern christian conservatives. Welcome to america.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: Icelander]
    #16102785 - 04/17/12 04:58 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
These are southern christian conservatives. Welcome to america.



:lolsy:


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: blingbling]
    #16103126 - 04/17/12 06:13 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

blingbling said:
you seem to have at least two different kinds of overall fears at play here. One being the fear of dying, the other being experiencing things you don't want to experience while living.

So maybe in this post you've shown, perhaps accidentally, that death anxiety isn't really all of it.

the fear of physical discomfort can easily be linked to a fear of death :shrug:





And it can be more directly linked to fear of pain.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: xFrockx]
    #16103332 - 04/17/12 06:47 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Pain just reminds us of death.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: White Beard]
    #16103374 - 04/17/12 06:55 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

When is the last time you got hurt?


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: xFrockx]
    #16103383 - 04/17/12 06:57 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

To what degree? I got sort of hungry today if that counts.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: White Beard]
    #16103398 - 04/17/12 07:00 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I mean like cut your hand or hit your head. Something that made you scream in pain. Has that ever happened to you?

I had a fish hook jam into my thumb the other day, and I had to pull it out. I wasn't thinking much about death, in fact, I didn't have much room for thoughts in the presence of the pain from what was happening.

Does pain cease to exist in those without death anxiety? I would be surprised. I don't really know.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: xFrockx]
    #16103439 - 04/17/12 07:07 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I downhill longboard, and have some pretty nasty falls. Big road rash all up my legs and arms. That kind of thing.

Actually, the last fall I had I was just commuting on my board while intoxicated without my safety gear. I fell and hit my head on the sidewalk. I managed to stop most of the fall with my hands, but I was still bleeding from the head. The pain was only very temporary, but for hours later I was shook up about how easily the lights could of gone out permanently right then and there.


Someone without DA would still feel pain, but there wouldn't be the emotional attachment I suppose. Perhaps it would just be like any other sensation, and they would treat it the same as pleasure. :shrug:


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: White Beard]
    #16103473 - 04/17/12 07:12 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

How would they treat both pleasure and pain then? Just disregard? Focused attention? I don't really know :shrug: What is death anxiety?


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: xFrockx]
    #16103501 - 04/17/12 07:17 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Death anxiety is the egos fear that it is unimportant, insignificant, and impermanent. The way the ego has to function is it has to see itself as number 1 always. The idea of death makes a mockery of this.

Someone without death anxiety would have to have no ego whatsoever (this is probably impossible, so we all have DA to some degree.), so pleasure and pain would probably be sensations occurring in the body, and they would be treated indifferently. I'm just guessing here.


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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: White Beard]
    #16103542 - 04/17/12 07:25 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"the ego's fear"

I do not see what this is either. It is as if you are suggesting there is this thing that exists in a human (the ego), and anthropomorphizing on it. I don't buy it.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: xFrockx]
    #16103564 - 04/17/12 07:31 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Do you have no sense of self?


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: White Beard]
    #16103617 - 04/17/12 07:44 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not sure. What is a sense of self?


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: xFrockx]
    #16103635 - 04/17/12 07:49 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Can you distinguish yourself from other things? Do you feel separate from the universe?


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: White Beard]
    #16103651 - 04/17/12 07:52 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

From my experience self is just a thought pattern that tries to give itself continuity in time and space as a real thing.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: White Beard]
    #16103684 - 04/17/12 08:01 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I don't know what a self is, or where the boundaries lay that would make "me" a seperate "thing." I don't know if there are "things" either. I'm not saying I experience nothing, I'm saying I'm not sure about the individuation of things from a(the?) whole. I don't know if anything is truly separate.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: xFrockx]
    #16103698 - 04/17/12 08:04 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, I agree with you on that point, yet there are still strong mental tenancies to think of myself as a separate bubble from the rest of the universe even though I know that to be not true. :shrug:


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: White Beard]
    #16103708 - 04/17/12 08:05 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I wouldn't say I know that not to be true, but I don't disagree with your observation.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: xFrockx]
    #16103721 - 04/17/12 08:09 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Okay, how about, I have no way of knowing I'm separate from anything, but there seems to be a mental pattern that seems almost certain it is separate from the rest of the universe even though that knowledge couldn't be known in certainty.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: White Beard]
    #16103736 - 04/17/12 08:11 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

The only part I'm not sure about there is that knowledge couldn't be known with certainty. Although I wouldn't argue that it could be.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: xFrockx]
    #16103748 - 04/17/12 08:12 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Well, I don't have that knowledge.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: White Beard]
    #16103757 - 04/17/12 08:14 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Well I do and for $50 I'll share.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: Icelander]
    #16103765 - 04/17/12 08:15 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry, I'm outta funds at the moment. :shrug:

Too bad, perhaps I'll learn the mysteries of my existence another time.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: White Beard]
    #16103827 - 04/17/12 08:30 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

If you wait it might cost you a c note.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineKupo
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: White Beard]
    #16103855 - 04/17/12 08:39 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Maybe you separate and together at same time?

Expand contract redact tact my name is Jimmy and I'm a class act.

To unbind the cultural chains, can you just start your own culture?

Contradictory to your story I'm an allegory for paradox.

I've got $10 on the "Remove-Icelander's-prostate--while-revealing-knowledge fund"

Anybody else?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Unbinding cultural chains. [Re: Kupo]
    #16103874 - 04/17/12 08:42 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I'll give an address where to send the cash.  I promise I'll use it for it's intended purpose. :pope:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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