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AbbeyRoad



Registered: 12/13/11
Posts: 419
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
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Lions Mane ?'s - Premature spawn fruiting\tyvek sleeves\Inoculating bags
#16074711 - 04/11/12 10:19 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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I was planing on try my first run using pasteurized straw since it worked well for my oysters and read it can be done with LM. But my Lions Mane started fruiting in my rye jars while I was on vacation.
1) Even if its starting to fruit can I still use as spawn? Do I rip\remove any fruits before spawn if so - or just spawn it with fruits?
2) I have everything to do sterilized wood\bran mycobags... but I am without the tyvek wrist sleeves RR uses in the bags for GE during sterilization. Mine have a filter is this sufficient? Is there another alternative folks use? I have seen the funky polyfil stuffed top style - is that right, whats it called so I can UTFSE?
3) Honestly Im weary of doing a G2G (or a 'G2W') like RR does in his video due to lack of flow hood - maybe Im just paranoid?? a) Do folks have success doing G2G in a GB? b) Do folks ever just inoculate the bags directly using LC? Will rtv work as a port?
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fungus_tao
Hah Zah!



Registered: 05/10/06
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Re: Lions Mane ?'s - Premature spawn fruiting\tyvek sleeves\Inoculating bags [Re: AbbeyRoad]
#16076336 - 04/11/12 04:12 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have read a post where RR says he prefers to use lion's mane spawn right when it starts to pin. Hericium species are known for fruiting on grain...the yield is actually not bad!
-------------------- Follow the light The Light is your guide.
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urbanshroom
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Re: Lions Mane ?'s - Premature spawn fruiting\tyvek sleeves\Inoculating bags [Re: fungus_tao]
#16077463 - 04/11/12 08:38 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have used LM with pins for spawn into substrate and expanding into more spawn. It's not a problem if the fruits are the size of an eraser head or so. IMO you should do LM in bags with sawdust and 20% bran, it needs a lot of supplementation for best yields and I don't think straw would do it justice. I'm sure you can do it on straw if you need to though. I think wrist sleeves are pretty essential for sterilizing bags-- without them I had problems with contamination or ripped bags about 50% of the time. Go on ebay and have a bunch of em shipped to you for $10, you won't regret it.
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Javadog
Continuing along



Registered: 05/03/10
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Re: Lions Mane ?'s - Premature spawn fruiting\tyvek sleeves\Inoculating bags [Re: AbbeyRoad]
#16077520 - 04/11/12 08:48 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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1. This is the question of whether a "switch" is flipped once fruiting starts...one that suppresses colonization of new substrate.
With Lion's Mane this seems hard to tell, as it fruits before subs or grains even look fully colonized.
I can say that I have spawned fruiting grains (no fruit removal) and gotten successful sacks as a result.
2. I believe that using tyvek sleeves with sacks is important because a cooling PC, and even a sack continuing to cool after removal will draw air into the sack. You want this air clean and so either a sleeve, cooling in front of a flow hood, or a stereoclave that holds a vacuum until you open the valve (again, in front of a flow hood) is opened.
3a. While I jumped right to a flow hood, I would have much more confidence in a G2G in a GB than most other actions, both because of the physical nature of a G2G (quick and easy) and because of how quickly a G2G inoculation takes hold of spawn grains.
3b. I do not use LCs much any more, but have gotten mad results using a huge syringe and a strong/clean LC to inoculate grain sacks. I recall sacks of Texan that took a week before they needed mixing and that finished right up after the mix.
Good luck,
JD
-------------------- Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes Myco-tek.org
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AbbeyRoad



Registered: 12/13/11
Posts: 419
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Re: Lions Mane ?'s - Premature spawn fruiting\tyvek sleeves\Inoculating bags [Re: Javadog]
#16080212 - 04/12/12 12:52 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks Urban\Java\Fungus: 
Quote:
urbanshroom said: I have used LM with pins for spawn into substrate and expanding into more spawn. It's not a problem if the fruits are the size of an eraser head or so.
I had pints and quarts going....The pints had really started fruiting (think ping pong balls) and were beyond pins. Rather than trashing the pints I just unscrewed the lid and threw them in my GH. Lets see whats happens 
Quote:
urbanshroom said: IMO you should do LM in bags with sawdust and 20% bran, it needs a lot of supplementation for best yields and I don't think straw would do it justice. I'm sure you can do it on straw if you need to though.
Already had prepped the straw, so I went ahead and just spawned to it using my 2 quart jars. I did some king oyster at the same time, and I can say the KO recovered already and the LM seems a little stalled. Honestly Im not expecting much, so if anythign happens it will be goodness. Otherwise I plan on venturing into wood\bran in bags..
Quote:
urbanshroom said: I think wrist sleeves are pretty essential for sterilizing bags-- without them I had problems with contamination or ripped bags about 50% of the time. Go on ebay and have a bunch of em shipped to you for $10, you won't regret it.
Quote:
Javadog said: 2. I believe that using tyvek sleeves with sacks is important because a cooling PC, and even a sack continuing to cool after removal will draw air into the sack. You want this air clean and so either a sleeve, cooling in front of a flow hood, or a stereoclave that holds a vacuum until you open the valve (again, in front of a flow hood) is opened.
So the consensus seems to be the sleeve are pretty effective and hard to live without...guess i will be hitting ebay then
Quote:
Javadog said:
1. This is the question of whether a "switch" is flipped once fruiting starts...one that suppresses colonization of new substrate.
With Lion's Mane this seems hard to tell, as it fruits before subs or grains even look fully colonized.
I can say that I have spawned fruiting grains (no fruit removal) and gotten successful sacks as a result.
Makes me feel better now - I did 2 Pints worth that way so lets see what happens!
Quote:
Javadog said:
3a. While I jumped right to a flow hood, I would have much more confidence in a G2G in a GB than most other actions, both because of the physical nature of a G2G (quick and easy) and because of how quickly a G2G inoculation takes hold of spawn grains.
3b. I do not use LCs much any more, but have gotten mad results using a huge syringe and a strong/clean LC to inoculate grain sacks. I recall sacks of Texan that took a week before they needed mixing and that finished right up after the mix.
JD
3a) Interesting that you say that about the G2G.. Honestly I perceived it to be completely the other way around, but the way to put it makes sense now. Just seems like theres a higher chance of getting a contam on the sterlized grain. You saying it negligable if you do because the myc will be able to overpower since its got a head start?
My confidence is shaky when it comes to LCs but Im damned determiend to get it to work. It comes down to the fact that you have no clue to the integrity of it until you do it on agar or noc a test jar and wait. Maybe I will give the G2G a try if you think its less risky than doing LC in GB..thanks
Edited by AbbeyRoad (04/12/12 12:53 PM)
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shroomsynergy
Fungi Freak



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Re: Lions Mane ?'s - Premature spawn fruiting\tyvek sleeves\Inoculating bags [Re: AbbeyRoad]
#16084938 - 04/13/12 01:03 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Honestly I have to tell you that I just fold the tops of the bags down to cover the filter during PC'ing. Leave the bags in the PC overnight so they cool in there with less access to contams.
I never wear sleeves or use a glovebox when I add my grainspawn. I just wash my hands and arms good, and take the bag out of the PC, open the top, and dump the grain in, then seal the top with my sealer.
I then mix around the grainspawn into the medium after it's sealed. I've made quite a few bags this way over the years, and can't recall any ever getting contaminated before fruiting. I do keep my kitchen really clean tho.
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AbbeyRoad



Registered: 12/13/11
Posts: 419
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
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Re: Lions Mane ?'s - Premature spawn fruiting\tyvek sleeves\Inoculating bags [Re: shroomsynergy]
#16086081 - 04/13/12 05:39 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroomsynergy said: Honestly I have to tell you that I just fold the tops of the bags down to cover the filter during PC'ing. Leave the bags in the PC overnight so they cool in there with less access to contams.
I never wear sleeves or use a glovebox when I add my grainspawn. I just wash my hands and arms good, and take the bag out of the PC, open the top, and dump the grain in, then seal the top with my sealer.
I then mix around the grainspawn into the medium after it's sealed. I've made quite a few bags this way over the years, and can't recall any ever getting contaminated before fruiting. I do keep my kitchen really clean tho.
Well the sleeves are on the way now regardless lol
BUT your post helps reassure me about trying the G2G.
I HAVE seem to had good luck doing my first round of cloning on agar...and since transferring to grain I'm honestly still surprised everything seems copacetic in the grain jars after 6 days. Keep waiting for a green nasty to pop up, but I'm pleasantly disappointed thus far. I suppose if I can go from agar to grain.. I can do G2G with similar success.
Also I am starting to doubt my approach for LCs - not necessarily my methods but my hardware. Right now I am basically using my grain lids (RTV+EZ Felt). Guess I need some syringe filters and hevy duty injection ports... oh wait those are ordered and on the way too
Starting to feel like the guy that tells his wife that $50,000 spent on a truck, fishing boat, rods\reels\tackle is going to save her money on fish fillets. Oh wait...I did that already too
lol
Edited by AbbeyRoad (04/13/12 05:40 PM)
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shroomsynergy
Fungi Freak



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Re: Lions Mane ?'s - Premature spawn fruiting\tyvek sleeves\Inoculating bags [Re: AbbeyRoad]
#16086747 - 04/13/12 08:33 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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hahaha! Too funny about the boat! 20,000 fish later! Ha!
I DO use my still air glovebox for agar to grain. I'm carefull as all hell until the grains fully colonized, but then I slack a bit. My big problem when colonizing the grain jars used to be bacteria contamination. the grains would turn greasy and wet looking and screw up colonization. Since then I'm pretty careful.
Good call on the injection ports. I love them. I just get a box of vaccutainers and pull the ports off of them and instal into my lids. They work great! Tons of good LC! WOOHOO!
Alot of people pasturize their substrates, like straw and whatnot, and just add the spawn to that, so even if a substrate isn't fully sterilized it does well when enough spawn is mixed in.
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Therian
Stranger

Registered: 03/04/09
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Re: Lions Mane ?'s - Premature spawn fruiting\tyvek sleeves\Inoculating bags [Re: shroomsynergy]
#16096234 - 04/16/12 03:26 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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If the fruits begin to form too soon prior to spawning I will remove them as I have had them rot when put on the sub, increasing chances for contams.
I have used lc in large mycobags with success. RTV sealant does work but it has a tendency to fall off the bags if they are moved or sometimes even at inoc. I've thought about roughing up the outer of the bag with fine sandpaper at the spot where I place the silicone, but placing a piece of medical tape over it keeps it from falling off.
I think you guys need to find a new lions mane culture. I have one from a wild collected specimen that colonized my quart jars faster than my blues and takes about a full week after full colonization of grain spawn before it begins to fruit.
Edited by Therian (12/04/12 09:22 PM)
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



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Re: Lions Mane ?'s - Premature spawn fruiting\tyvek sleeves\Inoculating bags [Re: Therian]
#16096356 - 04/16/12 04:56 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Lions mane fruits are 100% mycelium and will revert to regular mycelium growth once placed on a bulk substrate. They do not rot. If anything rotted, it was your sterile procedure and not the fact that pins were forming on the spawn. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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