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qman
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Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Do you believe the globalists are out to get us? [Re: SlashOZ]
#16080587 - 04/12/12 02:15 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
SlashOZ said: qman, you keep saying things are so bad and horrible for the U.S.
I'm not exactly sure why you want to say things are so bad. You say interest rates are low or our government spends to much or people in other countries have jobs or Europe is having problems. I'm not sure how any of this means my life is worse off because of globalism. I look around and see only positives with globalism. Can you point to something in my everyday life that is worse off because of globalism? How has globalism negatively affected me or other shroomerites? Point to something tangible that we experience on a daily basis to make your argument because so far you haven't said anything that suggest my life isn't awesome because of globalism.
There is nothing positive about having to manipulate interest rates lower, this is a desparate action. Look at it this way, we have near $16 trillion of debt, we must pay interest on that debt, if the average rate of interest was just 4%, we would have $960 billion per year in just interest payments, and we only collect $2.5 trillion in tax revenue. As you can see, and higher move in higher rates gets us closer to default.
Globalism affects US workers, it's all about jobs. Every manufacturing job creates and supports another 5 jobs in the economy. Every time we lost a good paying manufacturing job, we really lost another 5 in the general economy.
Jobs bring in tax revenue, support real estate prices, and are the key to economic prosperity. Jobs give consumers the confidence to purchase products and use credit, which ends up creating even more employment.
If somebody does not think that this movement of jobs overseas has not affected American lifes, they are not paying attention. Most Americans just sat back and watched as millions of jobs were lost, only now are the beginning to wake up.
Just today, the Federal Reserve was discussing plans to begin another round of QE (printing money) to help out weak economic conditions. Since 2009, the Fed has expanded its balance sheet to $3 trillion, this type of monetary policy is truly unprecedented.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
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Re: Do you believe the globalists are out to get us? [Re: qman]
#16080616 - 04/12/12 02:21 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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They don't want to get us. It's just that AL Gore, George Soros, and people like him are suffering because they are worrying about retirement and need more money.
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    [/url] [/url]
IF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN BECAUSE THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD, TURN IT UP SO YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM BITCH
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SlashOZ
:D



Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
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Re: Do you believe the globalists are out to get us? [Re: qman]
#16080663 - 04/12/12 02:30 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
SlashOZ said: qman, you keep saying things are so bad and horrible for the U.S.
I'm not exactly sure why you want to say things are so bad. You say interest rates are low or our government spends to much or people in other countries have jobs or Europe is having problems. I'm not sure how any of this means my life is worse off because of globalism. I look around and see only positives with globalism. Can you point to something in my everyday life that is worse off because of globalism? How has globalism negatively affected me or other shroomerites? Point to something tangible that we experience on a daily basis to make your argument because so far you haven't said anything that suggest my life isn't awesome because of globalism.
There is nothing positive about having to manipulate interest rates lower, this is a desparate action. Look at it this way, we have near $16 trillion of debt, we must pay interest on that debt, if the average rate of interest was just 4%, we would have $960 billion per year in just interest payments, and we only collect $2.5 trillion in tax revenue. As you can see, and higher move in higher rates gets us closer to default.
Globalism affects US workers, it's all about jobs. Every manufacturing job creates and supports another 5 jobs in the economy. Every time we lost a good paying manufacturing job, we really lost another 5 in the general economy.
Jobs bring in tax revenue, support real estate prices, and are the key to economic prosperity. Jobs give consumers the confidence to purchase products and use credit, which ends up creating even more employment.
If somebody does not think that this movement of jobs overseas has not affected American lifes, they are not paying attention. Most Americans just sat back and watched as millions of jobs were lost, only now are the beginning to wake up.
Just today, the Federal Reserve was discussing plans to begin another round of QE (printing money) to help out weak economic conditions. Since 2009, the Fed has expanded its balance sheet to $3 trillion, this type of monetary policy is truly unprecedented.
I'm still not sure what government monetary policy has to do with globalization. We have backwards policy on domestic spending. I mean, how is our massive spending on our military or a bloated bureaucracy even related to global economics? Clearly, our spending problem began before Nafta and is continuing in a very independent fashion from our free trade agreements. the inability of our government to manage a balance sheet is not an indictment of globalization. you are talking about gov't policy and not the free trade of goods. so do you want to talk about gov't policy regarding expenditures and receipts or do you want to talk about globalization?
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose "Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS "When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi "Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson. "Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Do you believe the globalists are out to get us? [Re: SlashOZ]
#16080780 - 04/12/12 02:56 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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As a result of globalization, we are in the financial position we are in today. The poor balance sheet and spending by the government is directly correlated to the lost of high quality jobs.
Think of it this way, more jobs= more tax revenue= a solid balance sheet. A stronger economy requires less government spending to stimulate it= which means a better balance sheet.
Everything is connected, there is no the government is this separate entity, and the private sector operates in it's own little world.
Why did the government support the banks in lending money to deadbeats who could never afford the home in the first place? To create a temporary illusion that propensity was taking place, that is how desparate the situation has become, now that the housing game is over, what can they do now?
The fact of the matter is, many people in this country sold their follow citizen out, for their short term gain. Workers in Germany watch the job situation with great intensity, they know what happens when work is shipped out, and they let the establishment know what they think of it, Americans live in a world naive arrogance.
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SlashOZ
:D



Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
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Re: Do you believe the globalists are out to get us? [Re: qman]
#16080809 - 04/12/12 03:06 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: As a result of globalization, we are in the financial position we are in today. The poor balance sheet and spending by the government is directly correlated to the lost of high quality jobs.
Think of it this way, more jobs= more tax revenue= a solid balance sheet. A stronger economy requires less government spending to stimulate it= which means a better balance sheet.
Everything is connected, there is no the government is this separate entity, and the private sector operates in it's own little world.
Why did the government support the banks in lending money to deadbeats who could never afford the home in the first place? To create a temporary illusion that propensity was taking place, that is how desparate the situation has become, now that the housing game is over, what can they do now?
The fact of the matter is, many people in this country sold their follow citizen out, for their short term gain. Workers in Germany watch the job situation with great intensity, they know what happens when work is shipped out, and they let the establishment know what they think of it, Americans live in a world naive arrogance.
But we've been carrying debt long before nafta. Only about 25% of federal spending is even linked to the economy, mainly welfare and medicaid. The other 75% is in defense, SS, medicare, education, etc.
Balancing our budget is possible regardless of who we trade with if we prioritize our spending properly.
The housing loan problem was a result of the lending industry lobbying for the reduction of regulations on that industry. This is basically a domestic problem and a fault of the gov't deregulating an industry that needs to be regulated. This has nothing to do with nike building manufacturing plants in china or toyota shipping cars to the U.S. The banking loan industry wasn't shipping jobs overseas. I mean, this has nothing at all to do with globalization.
so once again, do you want to talk about domestic gov't policy or globalization?
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose "Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS "When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi "Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson. "Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Do you believe the globalists are out to get us? [Re: SlashOZ]
#16080919 - 04/12/12 03:33 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
SlashOZ said:
Quote:
qman said: As a result of globalization, we are in the financial position we are in today. The poor balance sheet and spending by the government is directly correlated to the lost of high quality jobs.
Think of it this way, more jobs= more tax revenue= a solid balance sheet. A stronger economy requires less government spending to stimulate it= which means a better balance sheet.
Everything is connected, there is no the government is this separate entity, and the private sector operates in it's own little world.
Why did the government support the banks in lending money to deadbeats who could never afford the home in the first place? To create a temporary illusion that propensity was taking place, that is how desparate the situation has become, now that the housing game is over, what can they do now?
The fact of the matter is, many people in this country sold their follow citizen out, for their short term gain. Workers in Germany watch the job situation with great intensity, they know what happens when work is shipped out, and they let the establishment know what they think of it, Americans live in a world naive arrogance.
But we've been carrying debt long before nafta. Only about 25% of federal spending is even linked to the economy, mainly welfare and medicaid. The other 75% is in defense, SS, medicare, education, etc.
Balancing our budget is possible regardless of who we trade with if we prioritize our spending properly.
The housing loan problem was a result of the lending industry lobbying for the reduction of regulations on that industry. This is basically a domestic problem and a fault of the gov't deregulating an industry that needs to be regulated. This has nothing to do with nike building manufacturing plants in china or toyota shipping cars to the U.S. The banking loan industry wasn't shipping jobs overseas. I mean, this has nothing at all to do with globalization.
so once again, do you want to talk about domestic gov't policy or globalization?
Please don't compare the debt situation in 1992 (which was relatively small) to 2012, we are talking day to night. Failure to recognize this makes the debate worthless. Our debt to GDP just hit over 100% last year, this is unprecedented. Once debt to GDP goes over 100%, the debt wall is approaching sooner than later.
Balancing the budget will not happen, in fact the total debt of $16 trillion will never be paid back, it's mathematically impossible. The debt will be defaulted on through currency devaluation, the exact form is hard to determine.
The bankers did not just make junk like mortgage scams from lack of regulation, this was a plan, from the very top, if you think otherwise you are very naive. When you are in a dying economy, scams become your best friend. Why did they deregulate all of a sudden? They wanted to create some form of economic activity regardless of the outcome.
If you can not see the correlation between the lack of prosperity in the general economy, a US balance sheet that is close to insolvent, and the lost of jobs overseas (as a result of globalization), there is no hope for your understanding.
Seriously check out the situation in Europe, they also shipped work overseas, and have debt and balance sheet issues, they are rioting in the streets as people are losing more jobs, pensions, and their future.
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SlashOZ
:D



Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
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Re: Do you believe the globalists are out to get us? [Re: qman]
#16081028 - 04/12/12 03:57 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
SlashOZ said:
Quote:
qman said: As a result of globalization, we are in the financial position we are in today. The poor balance sheet and spending by the government is directly correlated to the lost of high quality jobs.
Think of it this way, more jobs= more tax revenue= a solid balance sheet. A stronger economy requires less government spending to stimulate it= which means a better balance sheet.
Everything is connected, there is no the government is this separate entity, and the private sector operates in it's own little world.
Why did the government support the banks in lending money to deadbeats who could never afford the home in the first place? To create a temporary illusion that propensity was taking place, that is how desparate the situation has become, now that the housing game is over, what can they do now?
The fact of the matter is, many people in this country sold their follow citizen out, for their short term gain. Workers in Germany watch the job situation with great intensity, they know what happens when work is shipped out, and they let the establishment know what they think of it, Americans live in a world naive arrogance.
But we've been carrying debt long before nafta. Only about 25% of federal spending is even linked to the economy, mainly welfare and medicaid. The other 75% is in defense, SS, medicare, education, etc.
Balancing our budget is possible regardless of who we trade with if we prioritize our spending properly.
The housing loan problem was a result of the lending industry lobbying for the reduction of regulations on that industry. This is basically a domestic problem and a fault of the gov't deregulating an industry that needs to be regulated. This has nothing to do with nike building manufacturing plants in china or toyota shipping cars to the U.S. The banking loan industry wasn't shipping jobs overseas. I mean, this has nothing at all to do with globalization.
so once again, do you want to talk about domestic gov't policy or globalization?
Please don't compare the debt situation in 1992 (which was relatively small) to 2012, we are talking day to night. Failure to recognize this makes the debate worthless. Our debt to GDP just hit over 100% last year, this is unprecedented. Once debt to GDP goes over 100%, the debt wall is approaching sooner than later.
Balancing the budget will not happen, in fact the total debt of $16 trillion will never be paid back, it's mathematically impossible. The debt will be defaulted on through currency devaluation, the exact form is hard to determine.
The bankers did not just make junk like mortgage scams from lack of regulation, this was a plan, from the very top, if you think otherwise you are very naive. When you are in a dying economy, scams become your best friend. Why did they deregulate all of a sudden? They wanted to create some form of economic activity regardless of the outcome.
But deregulation of the loan industry didn't happen all at once it actually happened over the course of more than a decade and several presidential and congressional elections and changes.
If you can not see the correlation between the lack of prosperity in the general economy, a US balance sheet that is close to insolvent, and the lost of jobs overseas (as a result of globalization), there is no hope for your understanding.
I don't understand how gov't spending on mostly non-globalization related issues is affected the globalization. For example, how did nafta spur us to increase our military spending each year for decades on end? Or similarly how did nafta or any free trade agreement have any relation to the creation of social security?
Seriously check out the situation in Europe, they also shipped work overseas, and have debt and balance sheet issues, they are rioting in the streets as people are losing more jobs, pensions, and their future.
I see a lot of criticism of globalization and now solutions to it. I've provided a possible solution to the issue of cheap labor overseas. I don't think globalization is mutually exclusive to our prosperity as you seem to claim. The free market is unwieldy and needs to be regulated but unfair burdens in the form of direct tariffs are not the answer. For example, why do you think the U.S. constitution eliminated the imposition of tariffs between the states? Do you think this was a bad idea for our country? Should states be able to put tariffs up? That is what you seem to think is the proper solution is to bring things down to the most micro level possible and then put tariffs up to prevent competition. I'm not sure how that would lead to prosperity.
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose "Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS "When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi "Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson. "Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
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Re: Do you believe the globalists are out to get us? [Re: SlashOZ] 2
#16081061 - 04/12/12 04:08 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Corporate greed (and greed period) is killing America/the world. How much "prosperity" does one need? Some people think that it is their right to make 3 billion a year. Say you want to cut that profit to 1.5 billion a year for them. There would be outrage because "it is my right as an American/capitalist to make 3 billion." NEVER MIND THAT THEY STILL HAVE 1.5 BILLION FUCKING DOLLARS! It makes my blood boil thinking about it all.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: Do you believe the globalists are out to get us? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#16081073 - 04/12/12 04:11 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm starting to really, really seriously consider trying to move to Scandinavia - Norway or Sweden.
This country is scary as shit.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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SlashOZ
:D



Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
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Quote:
BlindSophist said: I'm starting to really, really seriously consider trying to move to Scandinavia - Norway or Sweden.
This country is scary as shit.
Haven't you read qman's posts? Apparently things are even worse in Europe than they are here in the states.
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose "Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS "When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi "Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson. "Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: Do you believe the globalists are out to get us? [Re: SlashOZ]
#16081079 - 04/12/12 04:13 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
SlashOZ said:
Quote:
BlindSophist said: I'm starting to really, really seriously consider trying to move to Scandinavia - Norway or Sweden.
This country is scary as shit.
Haven't you read qman's posts? Apparently things are even worse in Europe than they are here in the states.
You're right, I'd probably have to toil in Sweden's ice mines.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
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I am going to get my RN license soon and use the job to travel all over, then find a nice comfy place for me and a mate.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Do you believe the globalists are out to get us? [Re: SlashOZ]
#16081121 - 04/12/12 04:22 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have no issue with competing with people in a similar like currency, but to compete with people from across the globe with weak currencies(which are manipulated low), that is where things get difficult.
To blame all our economic problems just on globalization would be ignorant, but it remains a significant factor. The fantasy world of socialism is also a contributing factor, and Europe is and will continue to experience the reality of living a economic lie, which is socialism promises that can not be funded.
You are right, irresponsible budget management (such as military spending) is separate from many things in the economy, but a stronger economy with higher tax revenue all of a sudden makes the spending less irresponsible.
As far as mortgage products, most started in the late nineties (sub prime, interest only, 0 down payment, adjustable rate) and got very hot in the 2000-2006 time period, just around the time of the first major recession after the stock market sell off.
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