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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Is there anything to lose?
    #16070652 - 04/10/12 02:43 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Can there be any ownership of anything? Where does the fear of loss come from? A mistake between what is illusory and what is real?


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OfflineGunnar
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Registered: 11/05/11
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Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: White Beard] * 1
    #16070724 - 04/10/12 02:57 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

You own what you can defend


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: Gunnar] * 1
    #16070738 - 04/10/12 03:00 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Time claims all.



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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: White Beard]
    #16070744 - 04/10/12 03:01 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

No ownership.  The fear is a mix of biochemistry (pain and fight or flight) and to some extent the way "the mind" functions IMO. Ultimately an aspect of evolution in one way or another.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
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Registered: 09/16/08
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Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: White Beard]
    #16070748 - 04/10/12 03:02 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, in actuality there is nothing to own. Particles do not own other particles, they interact.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: Grapefruit]
    #16070766 - 04/10/12 03:04 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I notice there are two fears. Bodily fear and egoic fear. Bodily fear just feels like a sensation in the body. Egoic fear feels more personal, and seems to last longer. Don't know if you find something similar.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: teknix]
    #16070774 - 04/10/12 03:05 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Yes, in actuality there is nothing to own. Particles do not own other particles, they interact.




I don't even know what a particle is man.


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: White Beard]
    #16070780 - 04/10/12 03:08 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Conditioning to think you are nothing but your physical body from birth leads to that worldview.


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Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
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Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: White Beard]
    #16070792 - 04/10/12 03:09 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Atomist

Quote:


According to Aristotle, atoms are indestructible and immutable and there are an infinite variety of shapes and sizes. They move through the void, bouncing off each other, sometimes becoming hooked with one or more others to form a cluster. Clusters of different shapes, arrangements, and positions give rise to the various macroscopic substances in the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomism
[1][2]




This is before we are known to have evidence of atoms . . . .


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: teknix]
    #16070812 - 04/10/12 03:12 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Conditioning to think you are nothing but your physical body from birth leads to that worldview.




Yeah, I agree.

Quote:

teknix said:
Atomist

Quote:


According to Aristotle, atoms are indestructible and immutable and there are an infinite variety of shapes and sizes. They move through the void, bouncing off each other, sometimes becoming hooked with one or more others to form a cluster. Clusters of different shapes, arrangements, and positions give rise to the various macroscopic substances in the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomism
[1][2]




Is is before we are known to have proof of atoms . . . .




And you're expecting me to know what the crap an atom is??? :justdontknow:


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Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
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Registered: 09/16/08
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Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: White Beard]
    #16070823 - 04/10/12 03:13 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

You didn't have science at your school?

Try Google, this stuff is common knowledge now.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: teknix]
    #16070832 - 04/10/12 03:14 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I'm just having a little fun with you. :wink:


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Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
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Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: White Beard]
    #16070839 - 04/10/12 03:15 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Not at my expense I hope? :P


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: teknix]
    #16070841 - 04/10/12 03:16 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Nahhh.


Maybe a little. :sun:


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Invisibleteknix
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Registered: 09/16/08
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Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: White Beard]
    #16070846 - 04/10/12 03:17 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

:heart:


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: teknix]
    #16070858 - 04/10/12 03:19 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

:hug: :peace:


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: White Beard]
    #16071338 - 04/10/12 05:07 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
Can there be any ownership of anything? Where does the fear of loss come from? A mistake between what is illusory and what is real?




no. death anxiety. likely.

fear of loss isn't necessarily a bad thing. i personally dont want to lose many things. wisdom and compassion being high on the list. but at the same time I don't see these as owned. and a large part of the reason i dont want to see them lost is because of their value in relinquishing ownership. 


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: White Beard]
    #16071397 - 04/10/12 05:14 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
I notice there are two fears. Bodily fear and egoic fear. Bodily fear just feels like a sensation in the body. Egoic fear feels more personal, and seems to last longer. Don't know if you find something similar.




I think so, but I can't say I'd be certain in putting a split right down them. I have to admit I've wondered if body and the ego don't conflict in many ways though, for instance I doubt the natural tendency of the physical system is designed to be interested in anything other than the healthy maintenance of the body. It seems a flaw may have developed along the way.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: Grapefruit]
    #16071511 - 04/10/12 05:36 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, I agree.

UG said something along the lines of thoughts are a neurological problem.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: White Beard]
    #16071612 - 04/10/12 05:59 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
Can there be any ownership of anything? Where does the fear of loss come from? A mistake between what is illusory and what is real?





Fear of loss is a basic aspect of death anxiety. If you can lose anything, then you can lose yourself. This mostly operates on an unconscious level imo.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: White Beard]
    #16071628 - 04/10/12 06:02 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
Yeah, I agree.

UG said something along the lines of thoughts are a neurological problem.




Yeah, UG is where I heard that philosophy. It makes perfect sense to me that our dreams, desires and philosophies  are contrary to optimal survival in accordance with the red in tooth and claw and therefore flaws in thought / the neurological system. I also agree with him that it seems highly idealistic and impractical for a human not functioning like that to think that they can function in that way through following a system or that it would somehow improve their lives. We all have to make do for the now.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: Icelander]
    #16071827 - 04/10/12 06:46 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

White Beard said:
Can there be any ownership of anything? Where does the fear of loss come from? A mistake between what is illusory and what is real?





Fear of loss is a basic aspect of death anxiety. If you can lose anything, then you can lose yourself. This mostly operates on an unconscious level imo.




It appears to me that the self is just a collection of things perceived owned, so when someone loses their wife, for example, that was part of how they defined themselves, thus they slightly disappear because of the loss.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: Grapefruit]
    #16071849 - 04/10/12 06:51 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
Quote:

White Beard said:
Yeah, I agree.

UG said something along the lines of thoughts are a neurological problem.




Yeah, UG is where I heard that philosophy. It makes perfect sense to me that our dreams, desires and philosophies  are contrary to optimal survival in accordance with the red in tooth and claw and therefore flaws in thought / the neurological system. I also agree with him that it seems highly idealistic and impractical for a human not functioning like that to think that they can function in that way through following a system or that it would somehow improve their lives. We all have to make do for the now.




Yeah, it's a strange situation we find ourselves in. :sad:


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OfflineNARYA
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Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: White Beard]
    #16074254 - 04/11/12 07:12 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

You can only perceive loss when still in fear of death. Find the death that stalks you, and embrace it. Overcome it. Know death as your ally. All fear is at its core just a fear of death. Being fearless of death is being deathless. This is the way of the shaman.

"I have died happy, and lived to tell the tale to you. I have slept for forty years, and woke, to find ne gone."


--------------------


Edited by NARYA (04/11/12 07:15 AM)


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InvisibleSymbols
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Registered: 03/13/12
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Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: NARYA]
    #16074409 - 04/11/12 08:42 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)



--------------------


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: White Beard]
    #16075461 - 04/11/12 01:22 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
Can there be any ownership of anything? Where does the fear of loss come from? A mistake between what is illusory and what is real?




i feel the 'mistake' is identifying what is real with what is illusory, we can only fear losing something if we are attached to it, and why would we attach to any thing or fear its loss unless we were identified as a thing ourself?


--------------------


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: Chronic7]
    #16075688 - 04/11/12 02:06 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, I agree.

Btw chronic, you were in my dream last night. We were tripping on shrooms, and I started running through some dark woods. I was almost to a clearing when a cop stopped me. He said the reason shrooms were illegal was because they turn your life into a Taoist riddle.


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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: White Beard]
    #16076095 - 04/11/12 03:30 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

If you take a magnet and stick a piece of iron to it, can the magnet be said to own the iron bar?

Because ultimately that's exactly what's happening.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: White Beard]
    #16078845 - 04/12/12 05:33 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
Yeah, I agree.

Btw chronic, you were in my dream last night. We were tripping on shrooms, and I started running through some dark woods. I was almost to a clearing when a cop stopped me. He said the reason shrooms were illegal was because they turn your life into a Taoist riddle.




:lol: hopefully it was a premonition, apart from the cop part


--------------------


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: Chronic7]
    #16079064 - 04/12/12 07:45 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

The Ego is afraid to lose Itself.


--------------------


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: Chronic7]
    #16079280 - 04/12/12 09:11 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
Quote:

White Beard said:
Yeah, I agree.

Btw chronic, you were in my dream last night. We were tripping on shrooms, and I started running through some dark woods. I was almost to a clearing when a cop stopped me. He said the reason shrooms were illegal was because they turn your life into a Taoist riddle.




:lol: hopefully it was a premonition, apart from the cop part




Yeah, I seriously want out of these woods. :sad: I just want to be free.


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: White Beard]
    #16079623 - 04/12/12 10:37 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I just meant a premonition that we're gonna take shrooms together! :mushroom2:

I like the metaphor of the woods though, its a common saying 'can't see the wood for the trees' when we pay too much attention to certain details missing the bigger picture

:strokebeard2:


--------------------


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
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Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: Chronic7]
    #16079710 - 04/12/12 10:52 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Oh, okay. :lol:
Yeah, hopefully one day.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Re: Is there anything to lose? [Re: Icelander]
    #16081176 - 04/12/12 04:37 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

White Beard said:
Can there be any ownership of anything? Where does the fear of loss come from? A mistake between what is illusory and what is real?





Fear of loss is a basic aspect of death anxiety. If you can lose anything, then you can lose yourself. This mostly operates on an unconscious level imo.




Yall sound like you got nothing to lose.  I mean unconsciously of course not like moms going anywhere soon.  Until she's unconscious, of course...


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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