|
venetianblinds
cabbage


Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 2,532
Loc:
|
has anyone else been through something like this?
#16068150 - 04/09/12 11:48 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
ive noticed a change happening in my view of things. its hard to describe it, but ill try, because i think its interesting and i dont know how far it will go or where it will lead. its basically a shift from trying to learn everything i can about the religious expirience/mythology to trying to learn all the science i can. i have a vague feeling of being a traitor of some sort. not in a serious way, but it feels weird to have spent so much time investigating this area for myself. i have appreciated the scientific view as the other side of the same coin, as they say. ever since i gave up christianity when i was younger, ive made it a point not to believe anything. but its delightful for me, i get a lot of pleasure from studying the history of mysticism and the variety of views from which one can learn. one thing seems certain though, that no one can ever say anything about anything, simply because what you say is not the thing itself. but how close can we get? can we narrow it down so as to at least say what reality is not? and there is the reason why things like physics are so interesting to me.
there is something else too. i was feeding myself with huge loads of world religious texts and things after my first mushroom trip. i think many here could relate to that. but it was just last year when i dabbled in certain lysergic seeds, and found myself reading the chapter in shulgin's tihkal called 'places in the mind'. lsa might not be the strongest psychedelic, i know, but this is where the scientific desire started. for the first time i was wondering what the hell was actually going on. no myths, no poetry, what happens in the brain when one trips? whats happening on a molecular level? and it gets even smaller! i was mentally a wreck, trying to piece together reality. my bookshelves have a hell of a balance between mystic and scientific stuff.
-------------------- How do you know but evβry Bird that cuts the airy way, Is an immense world of delight, closβd by your senses five?
|
Galidor4
Beholder



Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 854
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: venetianblinds]
#16068208 - 04/10/12 12:01 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I've definitely noticed a shift in my mind as well as that in other around me. Not specifically to science but to goings on around the world. Personally, (this may sound ridiculous) I feel it has to do with 2012 and the solstice, but that's just my opinion.
|
teknix
πβπ
’ππ
π°π‘ πΌπ⨻


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: Galidor4]
#16068266 - 04/10/12 12:18 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I'm in the same boat! Science is about objectifying phenomena, so I think it is only natural to want to find the evidence behind the experiences. I don't think that you are a traitor, I think you are looking for truth, and science is one of the best ways imo.
|
cbub
it


Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 1,412
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: venetianblinds]
#16068317 - 04/10/12 12:35 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I see the parts but not the whole, I studied saints and scholars both, no perfect plan unfurls. Do I trust my heart or just my mind, why is truth so hard to find in this world? -Thrice
/Does anyone know which eye nerve connects to which brain hemisphere?
-------------------- It's fine.
|
teknix
πβπ
’ππ
π°π‘ πΌπ⨻


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: cbub] 1
#16068332 - 04/10/12 12:41 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I think it is plausible that your feel like a traitor due to a misconception of what science is, or what you thought it was.
Like science doesn't prove anything, it only collects evidence and determines what is most probable, nothing absolute. It pretty much how we can work together to verify objectivity and bring more of the subjectivity to the objective realm.
|
venetianblinds
cabbage


Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 2,532
Loc:
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: cbub]
#16068337 - 04/10/12 12:41 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
cbub said:
/Does anyone know which eye nerve connects to which brain hemisphere?
they are opposite i believe
-------------------- How do you know but evβry Bird that cuts the airy way, Is an immense world of delight, closβd by your senses five?
|
teknix
πβπ
’ππ
π°π‘ πΌπ⨻


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: cbub]
#16068343 - 04/10/12 12:43 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
cbub said: I see the parts but not the whole, I studied saints and scholars both, no perfect plan unfurls. Do I trust my heart or just my mind, why is truth so hard to find in this world? -Thrice
/Does anyone know which eye nerve connects to which brain hemisphere?
|
Galidor4
Beholder



Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 854
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: teknix]
#16068353 - 04/10/12 12:45 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
teknix said: I think it is plausible that your feel like a traitor due to a misconception of what science is, or what you thought it was.
Like science doesn't prove anything, it only collects evidence and determines what is most probable, nothing absolute. It pretty much how we can work together to verify objectivity and bring more of the subjectivity to the objective realm.
I would say that's old science. Which is still around today but a lot of the Science of today is ruining our world and they know it. Ie. Western Medicine
|
venetianblinds
cabbage


Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 2,532
Loc:
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: teknix]
#16068365 - 04/10/12 12:48 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
teknix said: I think it is plausible that your feel like a traitor due to a misconception of what science is, or what you thought it was.
Like science doesn't prove anything, it only collects evidence and determines what is most probable, nothing absolute. It pretty much how we can work together to verify objectivity and bring more of the subjectivity to the objective realm.
ive been thinking about something recently, what its like to have pushed ones scientific knowledge and understanding to the edge. i was actually going to ask this in the science forum a few days ago but i found it hard to say. its something i want to test in myself, to see how far i can push it.
-------------------- How do you know but evβry Bird that cuts the airy way, Is an immense world of delight, closβd by your senses five?
|
teknix
πβπ
’ππ
π°π‘ πΌπ⨻


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: Galidor4]
#16068367 - 04/10/12 12:50 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Galidor4 said:
Quote:
teknix said: I think it is plausible that your feel like a traitor due to a misconception of what science is, or what you thought it was.
Like science doesn't prove anything, it only collects evidence and determines what is most probable, nothing absolute. It pretty much how we can work together to verify objectivity and bring more of the subjectivity to the objective realm.
I would say that's old science. Which is still around today but a lot of the Science of today is ruining our world and they know it. Ie. Western Medicine
You blame medicine, I blame the monetary system and corruption in government as well as tradition. The reason that the paradigm shift hasn't happened is because many times we must wait for the old surviving members of the pre-existing paradigm to die.(IE; you can't teach an old dog new tricks, and the old dogs has the seniority)
|
teknix
πβπ
’ππ
π°π‘ πΌπ⨻


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: venetianblinds]
#16068374 - 04/10/12 12:52 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
venetianblinds said:
Quote:
teknix said: I think it is plausible that your feel like a traitor due to a misconception of what science is, or what you thought it was.
Like science doesn't prove anything, it only collects evidence and determines what is most probable, nothing absolute. It pretty much how we can work together to verify objectivity and bring more of the subjectivity to the objective realm.
ive been thinking about something recently, what its like to have pushed ones scientific knowledge and understanding to the edge. i was actually going to ask this in the science forum a few days ago but i found it hard to say. its something i want to test in myself, to see how far i can push it.
Find someone smarter then you to debate with
|
zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: teknix]
#16068375 - 04/10/12 12:52 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
It's a phase, comes with the territory i believe. I was in a similar pursuit after the mushrooms deflowered my third eye. My thirst for knowledge was immence and my thoughts could not rest, which is why I had to let this go. The after glow still creeps and I still get stuck on thought every now and then. I figured why waste my time and energy trying to figure everything out when I could live a more peaceful life.. Not trying to change your course, this is just what happened to me. Hope you have better luck than me and actually make use of your studies.
|
venetianblinds
cabbage


Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 2,532
Loc:
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: zZZz]
#16068401 - 04/10/12 01:02 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
teknix, thats exactly what i need. its similar to how i prefer playing chess against opponents who are better than me. because i learn! even if i lose
zzzz, i think i know what you mean. what you said about making use of it is right on, im starting college this fall. hopefully that is not a waste of time and energy.
-------------------- How do you know but evβry Bird that cuts the airy way, Is an immense world of delight, closβd by your senses five?
|
teknix
πβπ
’ππ
π°π‘ πΌπ⨻


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: zZZz]
#16068406 - 04/10/12 01:04 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Being a scientist does not mean that you can't or are not spiritual as well, take Lynn Margulis for example. Margulis was evolutionary biologist that developed the endosymbiotic theory, which is now generally accepted for how certain organelles were formed. She also had a Gaia Hypothesis :
Quote:
The Gaia hypothesis, also known as Gaia theory or Gaia principle, proposes that all organisms and their inorganic surroundings on Earth are closely integrated to form a single and self-regulating complex system, maintaining the conditions for life on the planet.
The scientific investigation of the Gaia hypothesis focuses on observing how the biosphere and the evolution of life forms contribute to the stability of global temperature, ocean salinity, oxygen in the atmosphere and other factors of habitability in a preferred homeostasis. The Gaia hypothesis was formulated by the chemist James Lovelock and co-developed by the microbiologist Lynn Margulis in the 1970s. Initially received with hostility by the scientific community, it is now studied in the disciplines of geophysiology and Earth system science, and some of its principles have been adopted in fields like biogeochemistry and systems ecology. This ecological hypothesis has also inspired analogies and various interpretations in social sciences, politics, and religion under a vague philosophy and movement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis
|
cbub
it


Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 1,412
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: zZZz]
#16068419 - 04/10/12 01:08 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
cheers for googling it for me tenix. I thought if somebody watched a more in depth documentary or has some insider knowledge. Can't really tell which of the lines on the picture is more important. The idea was to access which hemisphere is more dominant, based on which eye is dominant. The key should be the balance between them.
-------------------- It's fine.
|
teknix
πβπ
’ππ
π°π‘ πΌπ⨻


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: teknix]
#16068438 - 04/10/12 01:14 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Close both your eyes if you wanna find the center, imo. The eyes tend to capture and fixate awareness, then when you close those it's the thoughts, then when you stop those . . . awareness becomes "less fixated".
|
Raven Gnosis
π°π’π―ππ’π«π±π¦π π¦π‘π


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: venetianblinds]
#16068448 - 04/10/12 01:16 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Who and what are you betraying? I'm deeply 'spiritual' but that does not halt or get in the way for my quest for knowledge and understanding... I love the sciences and the capacities they potentially carry for the welfare and progression of our species.
I think the biggest problem you may be having with it emotionally is reflected in this quote by Martin Luther King Jr. "Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men." Martin Luther King, Jr.
Just be a good man with the knowledge you attain.
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
|
venetianblinds
cabbage


Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 2,532
Loc:
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: teknix]
#16068453 - 04/10/12 01:18 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
what would you say to someone who points out that the eyes are a sort of external function of the brain, actually a part of the brain? in the context that say, a scientist would know when he looks at something, say a wall, it isnt still and fixed, but vibrating
-------------------- How do you know but evβry Bird that cuts the airy way, Is an immense world of delight, closβd by your senses five?
|
teknix
πβπ
’ππ
π°π‘ πΌπ⨻


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: venetianblinds]
#16068467 - 04/10/12 01:21 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Awareness is also a part of the brain, yet in a different manner that seems to go beyond the brain. Like moving it to an energy center for instance, or practicing metta, awareness seems to go to those locations within the body.
|
teknix
πβπ
’ππ
π°π‘ πΌπ⨻


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: teknix]
#16068472 - 04/10/12 01:23 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Like when you see a picture or think something, where is the general and relative location of that thought or image? Generally in the head or brain right? Now think about when you feel love for someone close to you, is that feeling also existing in the head or brain?
|
venetianblinds
cabbage


Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 2,532
Loc:
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: Raven Gnosis]
#16068477 - 04/10/12 01:24 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: Who and what are you betraying? I'm deeply 'spiritual' but that does not halt or get in the way for my quest for knowledge and understanding... I love the sciences and the capacities they potentially carry for the welfare and progression of our species.
I think the biggest problem you may be having with it emotionally is reflected in this quote by Martin Luther King Jr. "Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men." Martin Luther King, Jr.
Just be a good man with the knowledge you attain.
hmmm. i might say it is like betraying my commitment to unbelief. (ive heard it called devout agnosticism.) its easy to go around believing what the expert scientists say. but as was said above, there are probabilties invloved. uncertainty! its wonderful
but as i said immediatley after trying to describe my feelings in the op, IT ISNT SERIOUS. i could have been more careful i suppose
-------------------- How do you know but evβry Bird that cuts the airy way, Is an immense world of delight, closβd by your senses five?
|
cbub
it


Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 1,412
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: venetianblinds]
#16068479 - 04/10/12 01:25 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Close one eye and watch, open, then close the other and watch. You'll see that one of the eyes was more comfortable working alone. This could indicate which brain half is more dominant.
|
venetianblinds
cabbage


Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 2,532
Loc:
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: teknix]
#16068500 - 04/10/12 01:32 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
teknix said: Like when you see a picture or think something, where is the general and relative location of that thought or image? Generally in the head or brain right? Now think about when you feel love for someone close to you, is that feeling also existing in the head or brain?
ive heard various answers to this kind of thing. i prefer to avoid answering it all and just say how it seems to be to the observer. i dont know. its hard to say it is anywhere, because it moves and changes
-------------------- How do you know but evβry Bird that cuts the airy way, Is an immense world of delight, closβd by your senses five?
|
venetianblinds
cabbage


Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 2,532
Loc:
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: venetianblinds]
#16068507 - 04/10/12 01:34 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
see this is interesting, because with writing and some art forms, people can put down their thoughts, and those thoughts ( or at least an interpretation) can 'get it' the next guys head, and so on.
haha, where is the thought again?
-------------------- How do you know but evβry Bird that cuts the airy way, Is an immense world of delight, closβd by your senses five?
|
teknix
πβπ
’ππ
π°π‘ πΌπ⨻


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: venetianblinds]
#16068516 - 04/10/12 01:37 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah, I don't have an objective explanation :P
|
Raven Gnosis
π°π’π―ππ’π«π±π¦π π¦π‘π


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: venetianblinds]
#16068523 - 04/10/12 01:39 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
venetianblinds said:
It's easy to go around believing what the expert scientists say. but as was said above, there are probabilties invloved. uncertainty! its wonderful
It's just as easy to go around believing what some pastor or guru says too...
I always approach information and life in general with humility... We are born into these strange circumstances... What the hell is this even? What the hell are we and where are we?... We can answer none of those with certainty... Human ignorance in most regards is still abysmal beyond comprehension, for anyone to take an attitude of presumptuous and arrogant authority instead of humility, no matter how much they may know, is a disservice to themselves and the intellect of all people.
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
|
venetianblinds
cabbage


Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 2,532
Loc:
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: Raven Gnosis]
#16068531 - 04/10/12 01:41 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
i agree completely
id even say the more i learn, the less i know, because more questions appear
-------------------- How do you know but evβry Bird that cuts the airy way, Is an immense world of delight, closβd by your senses five?
|
teknix
πβπ
’ππ
π°π‘ πΌπ⨻


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: venetianblinds]
#16068551 - 04/10/12 01:48 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Like just beginning college I was wondering why masters and doctorate levels are so focus'd, now I can see it is because there is way more information than anyone person could ever know that has been accumulating for thousands of years.
The more you learn, the more you realize how little you really know.
|
teknix
πβπ
’ππ
π°π‘ πΌπ⨻


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: teknix]
#16068554 - 04/10/12 01:50 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I think it is important to be picky about what you dedicate to memory for that reason.
|
Linus
Chief Bromden



Registered: 06/21/09
Posts: 855
Loc: Cripple Creek
Last seen: 10 years, 16 days
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: teknix]
#16068572 - 04/10/12 02:00 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Look up stuff about the pineal gland. Its in the middle of your brain and called the third eye basically. I dont think they know what goes on when you trip but they know it involves seretonin.
-------------------- I've done a lot of drugs in the past, I still do. Abracadabra
|
Linus
Chief Bromden



Registered: 06/21/09
Posts: 855
Loc: Cripple Creek
Last seen: 10 years, 16 days
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: Linus]
#16068580 - 04/10/12 02:03 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
For the memory thing too, my short term memory is shit and I dont like to store useless stuff. I was looking up stuff about working memory last night and it makes sense. For instance a friend was asking me what song A day in the life was, with the lyrics and stuff, and I didnt know or care to grasp it. Then he was like I thought you were a Beatles fat you got ten seconds and I got it in two lol. I almost felt like i offended him by offering so little energy to it the first time. Its hard to explain but whatever. It has to do more with making useful connections and applying vs knowing facts.
-------------------- I've done a lot of drugs in the past, I still do. Abracadabra
|
Galidor4
Beholder



Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 854
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: teknix]
#16069867 - 04/10/12 12:14 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
teknix said:
Quote:
Galidor4 said:
Quote:
teknix said: I think it is plausible that your feel like a traitor due to a misconception of what science is, or what you thought it was.
Like science doesn't prove anything, it only collects evidence and determines what is most probable, nothing absolute. It pretty much how we can work together to verify objectivity and bring more of the subjectivity to the objective realm.
I would say that's old science. Which is still around today but a lot of the Science of today is ruining our world and they know it. Ie. Western Medicine
You blame medicine, I blame the monetary system and corruption in government as well as tradition. The reason that the paradigm shift hasn't happened is because many times we must wait for the old surviving members of the pre-existing paradigm to die.(IE; you can't teach an old dog new tricks, and the old dogs has the seniority)
You're totally right, thank you
|
Symbols
Β§βͺΞ»β‘ΙοΌ¨βΆΕ ΖΖ¦ο»Ώ

Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 688
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: Galidor4]
#16069987 - 04/10/12 12:42 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I think this tendency to shun science and embrace mysticism is partially based on two fronts: one, the mystical camp claims at least some version of (T)ruth, so it feels more meaningful to unearth insights within this domain. Secondly, because so many of us were raised within rigid ideological frameworks, we perceive the best way to develop our knowledge of the world is by investigating the anti-thesis of our bubbled upbringing. Spirituality then has an extra "contrarian" flare to it; it's enticing as forbidden fruit, as the discarded but enticing films that you weren't allowed to see.
From a purely psychological perspective, you could intellectually be more predisposed to literary thinking, as opposed to analytical rationalism - which is typical of the physical sciences.
--------------------
|
Goose
Student of life



Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 246
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: Symbols]
#16070913 - 04/10/12 03:30 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
in a dream i had recently they told me to learn more math and science.
-------------------- "i will study and prepare myself so that when my opportunity comes i will be ready" Abraham Lincoln
|
teknix
πβπ
’ππ
π°π‘ πΌπ⨻


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: Goose]
#16070944 - 04/10/12 03:40 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Science has always been our key to the miraculous, with replicatable evidence to back it. Just imagine how astonished our ancient ancestors would be by our current technology Yet there is still room for self-evidence within science and logic to afford subjectivity and creativity its own place, which becomes relevant when seeking love, induction, and even frontier science.
Edited by teknix (04/10/12 03:46 PM)
|
teknix
πβπ
’ππ
π°π‘ πΌπ⨻


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: teknix]
#16070993 - 04/10/12 03:52 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
A spiritual seekers mind is akin to a scientific mind in determining what is the truth, with scrutiny.
|
Galidor4
Beholder



Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 854
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
|
Re: has anyone else been through something like this? [Re: teknix]
#16078383 - 04/11/12 11:57 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
teknix said: Science has always been our key to the miraculous, with replicatable evidence to back it. Just imagine how astonished our ancient ancestors would be by our current technology Yet there is still room for self-evidence within science and logic to afford subjectivity and creativity its own place, which becomes relevant when seeking love, induction, and even frontier science.
Personally, I think our ancestors would be completely ashamed at how society is today, specifically how under developed our technology is compared to where our science is.
|
|