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InvisibleShins
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Atheism is a straw man * 1
    #16068022 - 04/09/12 11:12 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

how?  because there are different definitions of god.

for example; how does an atheist logically deny pantheism?


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OfflinewerDehT
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Re: Atheism is a straw man [Re: Shins]
    #16068154 - 04/09/12 11:49 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2][3] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist."

"Pantheism is the view that the Universe (or Nature) and God (or divinity) are identical.[1] Pantheists thus do not believe in a personal, anthropomorphic or creator god. The word derives from the Greek (pan) meaning "all" and the Greek (theos) meaning "God". As such, Pantheism denotes the idea that "God" is best seen as a process of relating to the Universe."


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Invisiblevenetianblinds
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Re: Atheism is a straw man [Re: werDehT]
    #16068193 - 04/09/12 11:57 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

i think there are people who interchange atheist and agnostic almost randomly.

one refers directly to some notion of 'god', the other refers to knowledge itself


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Atheism is a straw man [Re: venetianblinds]
    #16068303 - 04/10/12 12:29 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Hmm... if atheism only denied dieties, wouldnt that make it adeism?

atheism rejects ALL types of theism by definition.

i would say pantheism is adiest.

panentheism i would call diest.


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Invisiblevenetianblinds
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Re: Atheism is a straw man [Re: Shins]
    #16068327 - 04/10/12 12:39 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

theology
mid-14c., from O.Fr. theologie "philosophical treatment of Christian doctrine" (14c.), from L. theologia, from Gk. theologia "an account of the gods," from theologos "one discoursing on the gods," from theos "god" (see Thea) + -logos "treating of."

deity
c.1300, "divine nature;" late 14c., "a god," from O.Fr. deité, from L.L. deitatem (nom. deitas) "divine nature," coined by Augustine from L. deus "god," from PIE *deiwos



very similar words you see...i even wonder if the two roots of those words were actually the same once...theo- and deu-.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Atheism is a straw man [Re: venetianblinds]
    #16068366 - 04/10/12 12:49 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah i just realised i have my theos and dieos all confused.

i think im confused about the difference between diesm and theism.


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Invisiblevenetianblinds
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Re: Atheism is a straw man [Re: Shins] * 1
    #16068371 - 04/10/12 12:51 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

seems nearly arbitrary to me. i think the distinction between agnostic and athiest is more important when one is trying to say how they feel about the world, but personally, i think as soon as you call it a name, its less directly understood


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Atheism is a straw man [Re: Shins]
    #16068377 - 04/10/12 12:52 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

So one could be atheist but also diest.

maybe its me with the straw man

XD


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Invisiblevenetianblinds
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Re: Atheism is a straw man [Re: Shins]
    #16068384 - 04/10/12 12:54 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

but they both mean 'god'...im not sure if what you said is possible:lol:


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Atheism is a straw man [Re: venetianblinds]
    #16068413 - 04/10/12 01:06 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Hmm well it seems there is some kind of distinction, but it kind if illudes me.

i always thought theos was immenant while deus was a seperate creator from the universe or a supernatural designer.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Atheism is a straw man [Re: Shins] * 1
    #16068427 - 04/10/12 01:12 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Whether diety or thiety i still wonder how an "A" can deny a "PAN"

A = not, lack of
PAN = all, full.

it seems an "A" denies all of existence in some context.


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Invisiblevenetianblinds
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Re: Atheism is a straw man [Re: Shins]
    #16068436 - 04/10/12 01:14 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

it denies existence in god out there

whereas i would interpret most pantheism as something all around


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Invisiblevenetianblinds
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Re: Atheism is a straw man [Re: venetianblinds]
    #16068442 - 04/10/12 01:15 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

i dont know if that was clear

what i mean is something like the contrast of the christian belief in god up in heaven as opposed to say, the idea of the flowing of the tao, or something.


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Re: Atheism is a straw man [Re: venetianblinds]
    #16068457 - 04/10/12 01:19 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Theism, atheism both seem to insecure to admit 'we don't know'.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Atheism is a straw man [Re: Shins]
    #16068465 - 04/10/12 01:21 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I also think agnosticism is... actually kind of confusing.

agnostic kind of says nothing is knowable, disbelief in knowledge?

i would call scientists and science gnostics...

so if youre agnostic, in a sense you dont believe science?

but in another milder sense, agnostic could just mean you believe in science, but youre a skeptic.

but i think if you believe in ANY science that you're gnostic.

like if you believe 1+1=2


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Offlinecbub
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Re: Atheism is a straw man [Re: Shins]
    #16068499 - 04/10/12 01:32 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

so if youre agnostic, in a sense you dont believe science?




I think that view makes best scientists. Why do they even do science if they don't believe in it?
Because they want to find out and they have no choice but to work with what they're given.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Atheism is a straw man [Re: cbub]
    #16068502 - 04/10/12 01:33 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

cbub said:
Theism, atheism both seem to insecure to admit 'we don't know'.




but do we know? (in general)

anything at all?

maybe we dont know it all, but we have some clues?

maybe all the pieces are there but we're blinded and deep in our hearts we can feel it?

a major agnostic wouldnt even bother to try and look?


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Invisiblevenetianblinds
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Re: Atheism is a straw man [Re: Shins]
    #16068517 - 04/10/12 01:37 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

i dont believe anything, but i look and seek and find things entertaining. i wouldnt say i look for some final answer to anything though. my friends misunderstand me when they find me reading something like, an ancient hindu text. they think im looking for the answer, but im really just enjoying something beautiful.


the rig veda, or the small bit i have in english, is very funny by the way


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Offlinecbub
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Re: Atheism is a straw man [Re: Shins]
    #16068524 - 04/10/12 01:39 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Objectively, it's very obvious that there cannot be any true knowing beyond descartes' 'I think therefore I am'.
We just keep hoping we're wrong and play along with what could be an illusion.
It seems to work, so we keep playing along, but then again, we don't really know why it works.
It's arguable that even Descartes could have been wrong and that 'I think therefore I am' could have more than one
interpretation or be completely wrong.


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Edited by cbub (04/10/12 01:49 AM)


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Offlinecbub
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Re: Atheism is a straw man [Re: cbub]
    #16068578 - 04/10/12 02:03 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Like this: I think therefore I am.

1.) My thinking is a proof of my existence
2.) My thinking is making my existence - I think myself be.
--
3.) I don't exist at all, I'm made up by someone/something else.


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