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Invisibledysphoria
lost soul

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Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1,651
couple questions for some experienced hands
    #1606767 - 06/04/03 02:30 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

hello all

been lurking around for the last couple months, learning all i can and such.
for my dogs best friend of course. and he has a couple questions he'd like answered, though im sure all have been answered before.

first off, hes new to this, and just recently birthed his first brf/verm cake. all went well, though he didnt dunk, nor cold shock. pinning was slow initially, and rather dissapointing (he reported 3 pins total). he also uses perlite and saran wrap type terrarium.

sadly two of the three pins aborted.
and heres the questions he'd appreciate answers to.

the non aborted mushroom grew well, until recently.
the stem had mycellium growth on it, no big deal..as thats not a concern and he already knows why that is.
but prior to harvest, the mushrooms veil didnt form correctly, he noted this when he saw it hanging around the stem, unattached to the cap. what caused this?
also, the stem of this mushroom is blackish towards the cap.
everything else looked healthy other than these two things.

being the cautious (and eager) dog he is, he harvested it early, fearing no good could come from a couple more days. he ingested it, and it wasnt enough to encite a good trip, he felt a little bit, and hasnt become sick...so all is well there.

the cake itself started turning blueish, a sign of dehydration.
he attempted to remedy this by first injecting steriled water into the cake itself via syringe, then decided it'd be best to dunk it.

given all this, the real question is this:
a cake that only had one fruitbody, which had the above symptoms, and the bluing of the cake (which he prays isnt green mold masquerading as blue) during the time of the first 'flush'...is this all just a sign of dehydration of the substrate?
does all this normally happen when the cake is dehydrated? (few pins, bluing cake, black stemmed fruitbody, non-attached veil, etc)
would dunking at this point help or hurt?

thank you, even if only a handful of these get answered, my dog would be forever grateful for any insight.

-jb


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InvisibleJoshua
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Registered: 10/27/98
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Loc: The Matrix
Re: couple questions for some experienced hands [Re: dysphoria]
    #1606845 - 06/04/03 03:09 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I think you have correctly evaluated your problem.

I also think you have taken the correct action to solve part of the problem. I do suggest dunking over injection. The second part is to make sure your humidity is at %90-95.

Joshua


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Invisible40oz
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Registered: 01/19/01
Posts: 30,035
Loc: Sandy Eggo. Ca.
Re: couple questions for some experienced hands [Re: dysphoria]
    #1607181 - 06/04/03 06:38 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

given all this, the real question is this:
a cake that only had one fruitbody, which had the above symptoms, and the bluing of the cake (which he prays isnt green mold masquerading as blue) during the time of the first 'flush'...is this all just a sign of dehydration of the substrate?
does all this normally happen when the cake is dehydrated? (few pins, bluing cake, black stemmed fruitbody, non-attached veil, etc)
would dunking at this point help or hurt?




>>a cake that only had one fruitbody
>>few pins, bluing cake;
>>pinning was slow initially, and rather dissapointing

sounds like lack of dikaryotic mycelium; and/or strain degeneration...
you got shitty spores.

>but prior to harvest, the mushrooms veil didnt form correctly
>he noted this when he saw it hanging around the
>stem, unattached to the cap. what caused this?

it hung around the stem because it broke free of the cap.
its very thin & sensitive...
the mush life cycle goes by pretty fast, you prolly werent around to see it rip from the cap :wink:

>>>the stem of this mushroom is blackish towards the cap.

the cap had opened and dropped its sp0res..


i'd say you did everything correct, you just got a case of shitty sp0res.
:wink:
good luck next time :smile:



   


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Invisibledysphoria
lost soul

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Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1,651
Re: couple questions for some experienced hands [Re: 40oz]
    #1607203 - 06/04/03 07:03 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

thank you both for your replies

i must object on the veil being 'ready' and being torn while my dog wasnt aware
the doggy was aware of the veil forming one night, the very next day, he wanted to see if the veil was properly forming, and this is when he noticed it hanging on the stem. i must also note that the dog said the veil was attached to neither stem nor cap. he might be wrong, but he was under the assumption that it'd tear away from the cap, and at least stay attached to the stem.
the cap itself seemed premature for such a separation
though hes only done this once, that being this time..
so what does that stupid dog know? =)

the blackness of the stem could've in fact been spores, though cross-referencing on the subject led to a few people saying that such things happen on 2nd and 3rd flushes or when the cake is dry and/or out of nutrients. any verification to this?

other notes: the cake did seem slightly dry, and rather lighter than my dog expected
the spores came from the spore works, and being a reputable vendor and listed on the shroomery as reputable, my dog finds it hard to believe he somehow obtained 'sub-par' spores from them
once again, he doesnt know much, only knows what he sees

-jb


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Invisible40oz
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Re: couple questions for some experienced hands [Re: dysphoria]
    #1607223 - 06/04/03 07:20 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

>thank you both for your replies
:wink:

Quote:

i must object on the veil being 'ready' and being torn while my dog wasnt aware
the doggy was aware of the veil forming one night, the very next day, he wanted to see if the veil was properly forming, and this is when he noticed it hanging on the stem. i must also note that the dog said the veil was attached to neither stem nor cap. he might be wrong, but he was under the assumption that it'd tear away from the cap, and at least stay attached to the stem.
the cap itself seemed premature for such a separation
though hes only done this once, that being this time..
so what does that stupid dog know? =)




if the cap was open by the time you checked on it,
you missed it...

Quote:

the blackness of the stem could've in fact been spores, though cross-referencing on the subject led to a few people saying that such things happen on 2nd and 3rd flushes or when the cake is dry and/or out of nutrients. any verification to this?




nothing more than spores.

Quote:

other notes: the cake did seem slightly dry, and rather lighter than my dog expected



lack of moisture could have an impact on the fruting...
but 1 fruit? ...if that the case...your cake could have been considered cracker dry.

Quote:

the spores came from the spore works, and being a reputable vendor and listed on the shroomery as reputable, my dog finds it hard to believe he somehow obtained 'sub-par' spores from them
once again, he doesnt know much, only knows what he sees



SW is a GREAT company...
in this hobby, NOTHING is guarenteed 100 percent....especially spores...
spore can be contaminated  by anybody including vendors...

....ever wonder why vendors have a contam replace policy?
vendors also cant tell the genetics of spores until the end result. (strain degeneration)



 


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tiny_rabid_birds said:
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Invisibledysphoria
lost soul

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1,651
Re: couple questions for some experienced hands [Re: dysphoria]
    #1607227 - 06/04/03 07:25 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

followup:
the dog did some quick research, and the blackness is almost undoubtably from spores. he said B+ strain has "Partial veil membranous leaving a persistent membranous annulus that is well dusted with purplish brown spores even before tearing away from the cap." -sporeworks

the blackness of the stem was in fact present before the veil detached, and knowing (or thinking, which isnt the same in this case) that the veil needed to be torn before spores were dropped, he assumed this blackness to be a sign of something else.

i dont know at this point, hard to follow what the dog is saying or thinking after a sleepless night. though the dog just said hes going to try dunking for 12 hours, then rolling the cake in dry vermiculite, followed by sterile water spraying of the verm. will post followups on his progress
-jb


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Invisible40oz
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Re: couple questions for some experienced hands [Re: dysphoria]
    #1607232 - 06/04/03 07:28 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

>>>the blackness is almost undoubtably from spores

told ya  :tongue: 


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tiny_rabid_birds said:
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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: couple questions for some experienced hands [Re: dysphoria]
    #1607234 - 06/04/03 07:29 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I sincerely doubt if your problems were do to bad spores.

An abort takes on a dark color when it is. Mushrooms sense when it is time to open up. If they were running out of water, they would have opened early as to try to release any spores they made.

Seeing darkening of the caps as far as backening is not related to your flush sequence in itself. if it were spores, you would be just as likely to see them on a first flush or a tenth flush. The significant difference is in the attention you might pay to a first flush over a tenth flush.

Of course this is my opinion. I suggest you make your own...and I think you have done a good job reading up on the subject.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"


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Invisibledysphoria
lost soul

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1,651
Re: couple questions for some experienced hands [Re: dysphoria]
    #1607241 - 06/04/03 07:35 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

and thanks once again for your insight 40oz

he'll try the above methods hoping for better fruiting, perhaps theres something eluding him as to what his cake needs or wants in order to put on more fruits.

failing all of the above, he might have to email/contact the people at the spore works and request a replacement for a 'non-viable syringe'

-jb

p.s. just wanted to say that me and my dog both agree that this is a wonderful site, with knowledgable people and a plethora of information.


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Invisible40oz
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Re: couple questions for some experienced hands [Re: Joshua]
    #1607243 - 06/04/03 07:38 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

>I sincerely doubt if your problems were do to bad spores.

not bad spores, bad compatiblity of monokaryons.... :smirk:

Sexual reproduction in basidiomycetes involves the union of two monokaryons, or primary mycelia, to form a dikaryon, or a secondary mycelium. The dikaryon is the major, long-lived vegetative stage of most species and ultimately gives rise to the production of sporocarps. The recognition and fusion of monokaryons is governed by the mating type loci. Mating type compatible monokaryons will successfully fuse and form the dikaryon while mating type incompatible monokaryons will not.   


--------------------
:pacman: - - - -  :pill: :mushroom2: :pill2: :mushroom2: :regularshroom: :mushroomgrow: :pill: :pill2: :mushroom2: :poison:

:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."


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Invisible40oz
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Registered: 01/19/01
Posts: 30,035
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Re: couple questions for some experienced hands [Re: dysphoria]
    #1607250 - 06/04/03 07:47 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

>and thanks once again for your insight 40oz
no problem mang! :smile:

Quote:

failing all of the above, he might have to email/contact the people at the spore works and request a replacement for a 'non-viable syringe'



well i dont know if they would replace it, technically speaking, and also since sp0res are for micr0sc0pic purposes 0nly :wink:
but in the case you do want to get a hold of them,
you might wanna read this:
Sporeworks- CustServ Closed til June 11th 


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:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."


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