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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Impermanence thoughts of the day [Re: deff]
    #16077317 - 04/11/12 08:13 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

form is an illusion?


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
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Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,848
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Re: Impermanence thoughts of the day [Re: quinn]
    #16077437 - 04/11/12 08:34 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
secondly in referece to the op
Quote:


Subtle impermanence refers to the fact that the moment things and events come into existence, they are already impermanent in nature; the moment they arise, the process of their disintegration has already begun.




would it not be even more 'subtle' to say that things don't 'come into existance' nor do they 'disintegrate' or 'decay' but simply that shit is constantly changing?




IMO that's the difference between an ultimate truth and a relative truth. Subtle impermanence is a great relative truth. Relative to this body, I can see the origin and with it the birth of its decline. What's even more, I can experience it directly. On a larger scale, incorporating as much as humanly possible, there is no set origin or set end. It's constant change. I alluded to this earlier as a reason I don't believe anything in an ultimate sense, only a relative one. Even talking about this as if it were representative of the ultimate truth is somewhat misleading.

"The Tao that can be spoken is not the Eternal Tao" and all that jazz


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineKickleM
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Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,848
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Re: Impermanence thoughts of the day [Re: crkhd]
    #16077447 - 04/11/12 08:35 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

crkhd said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
You are free to believe what you want. You believe that things are permanent but do not act in accordance with this belief. I'm not saying what way you should view things or go about the world. I'm just pointing out that your actions don't follow what you're saying.

As for where it's implied, permanent things do not change. So the money in my hands or yours doesn't matter, it's the same permanent whole either way, right? But you won't send me your money, so apparently something does change if you send it my way. Something is lost. If you were really convinced that it could not be lost, you wouldn't be afraid to let it go.





When writing that post I did not follow that line of reasoning:

"So the money in my hands or yours doesn't matter, it's the same permanent whole either way, right?"

Don't know how you extrapolated that. It absolutely is not the same whole in either case. We are talking about very different ideas of permanence here. It's not that I "permanently" own any of the money. It's the fact that supposing I gave that money to you, it would be a permanent truth that the money went in your direction. If I burnt that money, again it would be a permanent thing that the money once was, then a pile of ashes arose from its death. In 3 dimensions things appear to come and go.

If you look at the truly real 4 dimensional paths they trace out in time, there is no impermanence. Every single photon that has ever traced a path has contributed to making now what it is. That is permanence. It's not a "story", it's the fundamental statement of science.





You've lost me with why you responded to this thread in the first place :confused:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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