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OfflineCrystal G
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Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!!
    #16039042 - 04/03/12 05:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

A new proposed Arizona law will allow employers to fire women who use "whore pills," AKA birth control, if they cannot prove they are using it for medical reasons.

JESUS CHRIST, WHY ARIZONA, WHYYYYYYY?!?!?!?!

Jezebel thinks it might not go anywhere, but I don't know... considering the laws they passed in the past year concerning illegal immigration, ethnic studies, and personhood laws, I really wouldn't put it past that state...

Never mind the fact that this is a complete violation of HIPAA and the right to medical privacy.

Law Will Allow Employers to Fire Women for Using Whore Pills"
Use Birth Control? You're FIRED!

Apparently the idiocy doesn't end at Arizona. A Wisconsin lawmaker, who believes in making divorce illegal (even under spousal abuse), urges battered women to go back to abusive husbands.

This is right around the same time Wisconsin senator went on a crusade trying to prove that single motherhood was correlated with abuse.

So, to recap... single moms are considered abusive, abusive marriages are perfectly OK.

*shrill scream*



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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16039177 - 04/03/12 06:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
A new proposed Arizona law will allow employers to fire women who use "whore pills," AKA birth control, if they cannot prove they are using it for medical reasons.

JESUS CHRIST, WHY ARIZONA, WHYYYYYYY?!?!?!?!

Jezebel thinks it might not go anywhere, but I don't know... considering the laws they passed in the past year concerning illegal immigration, ethnic studies, and personhood laws, I really wouldn't put it past that state...

Never mind the fact that this is a complete violation of HIPAA and the right to medical privacy.

Law Will Allow Employers to Fire Women for Using Whore Pills"
Use Birth Control? You're FIRED!

Apparently the idiocy doesn't end at Arizona. A Wisconsin lawmaker, who believes in making divorce illegal (even under spousal abuse), urges battered women to go back to abusive husbands.

This is right around the same time Wisconsin senator went on a crusade trying to prove that single motherhood was correlated with abuse.

So, to recap... single moms are considered abusive, abusive marriages are perfectly OK.

*shrill scream*





I agree with making divorce illegal except in very limited circumstance...

I seriously doubt that a law allowing a woman to be fired for using birth control would be valid...Title VII would preempt that for sure.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16039188 - 04/03/12 06:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Me not buying you something does not constitute me forbidding you something.  Why do you lie?  Birth control is cheap as shit.  Fucking buy it yourself and stop panhandling.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G] * 3
    #16039202 - 04/03/12 06:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

There are three things about this that surprise me.

1. That anyone could be stupid enough to come up with crap like this bill.
2. That the provision you talk about is actually in the bill
3. That this wasn't yet again just hyperbole from you.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/50leg/2r/summary/h.hb2625_03-01-12_houseengrossed.pdf

That link is to the summary of the bill where you will find:

Quote:

Removes the provision that prohibits religious employers from discriminating against an
employee who independently chooses to obtain insurance coverage or prescriptions for
contraceptives from another source.




I can see them not requiring the employers to have to pay for things that they have religious issues with, but being allowed to terminate employment over it is seriously fucked up.

Religion is truly a stupid, stupid thing.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (04/05/12 11:52 AM)


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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/06/07
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16039262 - 04/03/12 06:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Me not buying you something does not constitute me forbidding you something.  Why do you lie?  Birth control is cheap as shit.  Fucking buy it yourself and stop panhandling.




Why the fuck do you even bother posting unless you're going to read the link? This has to do with employers firing women for using birth control, it has absolutely nothing to do with government paid birth control. Seriously, are u illiterate? If you're going to make a contradictory statement then at least make an effort to come across as seemingly intelligent.

Enlil, why the heck do u support making divorce illegal? U actually want to criminalize what goes on behing closed doors, the decision of what lover u decide to live with and stay with? How is that even the governments business?

Luvdemush, I was under the impression that the law was being rewritten to allow employers to ask who was on birth control: http://www.statepress.com/2012/03/12/senate-judiciary-committee-endorses-controversial-contraceptive-bill/


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16039277 - 04/03/12 06:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Enlil, why the heck do u support making marriage illegal? U actually want to criminalize what goes on behing closed doors, the decision of what lover u decide to live with and stay with? How is that even the governments business?




I never said anything about making it a crime...chillax...

I just believe if you're going to enter into a legal marriage, make it mean something...It shouldn't be the kind of thing you can just choose to end because you're not happy or because you're not in love...Committment only means something when it's hard...

Otherwise, just shack up...

I just think if you're going to stand up and make a vow to stick with someone for the rest of your life, that should mean that you're going to stick with someone for the rest of your life...Divorce should only be allowed in circumstances where someone has crossed into the realm of dangerous and/or criminal activity against their spouse.

That's my belief...you need not agree..


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16039285 - 04/03/12 06:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

That's what I come away with after reading the article and the summary.

I find it appalling.

I can't imagine this passing judicial muster but the fact they even put it in the bill is ridiculous.

That was just a committee vote. Hopefully the full vote, should one come, will have very different results.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16039310 - 04/03/12 06:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Apparently the idiocy doesn't end at Arizona. A Wisconsin lawmaker, who believes in making divorce illegal (even under spousal abuse), urges battered women to go back to abusive husbands.


Let's just all become Muslims and get it over with. :braindamage:


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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OfflineCrystal G
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Registered: 06/06/07
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16039387 - 04/03/12 07:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Enlil, why the heck do u support making marriage illegal? U actually want to criminalize what goes on behing closed doors, the decision of what lover u decide to live with and stay with? How is that even the governments business?




I never said anything about making it a crime...chillax...

I just believe if you're going to enter into a legal marriage, make it mean something...It shouldn't be the kind of thing you can just choose to end because you're not happy or because you're not in love...Committment only means something when it's hard...

Otherwise, just shack up...

I just think if you're going to stand up and make a vow to stick with someone for the rest of your life, that should mean that you're going to stick with someone for the rest of your life...Divorce should only be allowed in circumstances where someone has crossed into the realm of dangerous and/or criminal activity against their spouse.

That's my belief...you need not agree..




That's really not your call to make. If YOU personally don't want to live like that, then fine. But telling other people to abide to YOUR twisted concept of morality, or forcing them to stay with to somebody for whatever reason YOU deem acceptable, is wrong. People get married for many different reasons, and much like with every circumstance in life, situations evolve. Friends come and go, just as lovers come and go. If divorce were actually illegal, then all that would end up happening is people would go around committing adultery. Or it would end up with couples making up any old excuse in the book ("He beats our children!" "She tried to kill me!") just to get a divorce approved. Government has no business telling you who to stay with.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16039400 - 04/03/12 07:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
If divorce were actually illegal, then all that would end up happening is people would go around committing adultery.



You might be right...they shouldn't have made the contract in the first place...

Divorce is too easy, so people get married on a whim...who cares?  they know they can always get a divorce...

Promises mean something...otherwise, what is the point?


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16039448 - 04/03/12 07:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
If divorce were actually illegal, then all that would end up happening is people would go around committing adultery.



You might be right...they shouldn't have made the contract in the first place...

Divorce is too easy, so people get married on a whim...who cares?  they know they can always get a divorce...

Promises mean something...otherwise, what is the point?




This is obviously a differential of values between us. I honestly don't see why divorce OR multiple marriages is such a bad thing, or has such a negative connotation. Then again, I think monogamy is overrated, and have never placed an exorbitantly high value on marriage to begin with. And I find the idea of marrying somebody you just met to be wildly passioante and romantic. :shrug: Yes a lifelong marriage is nice and everything if people are in love, but in the end it's just a piece of paper saying you're committed. It's not inherently any more intrinsically valuable than an undocumented committed relationship. Sometimes people who are dating think that the person they are dating is "the one," only to realize after getting married and living together that they are incompatible. Stuff happens.

What you're suggesting wouldn't just cause a spike in adultery, it would also cause cause couples to start making up any excuse under the sun just to get a divorce approved. "She tried to kill me!" "He beats up our children!" Let the false accusations ensue.

Or it would cause people to simply stay legally married, while staying separated in real life--as in, living in different houses, dating different people... It wouldn't actually motivate people to stay together. People would still be living their lives however they want to do it, it simply wouldn't be documented by the government. And this would create a whole hoard of other problems. For example, a couple could agree to a mutual separation, and the woman ends up having a baby with another man that she's in a relationship with (not her legal husband). This is easily a feasible, realistic scenario, right? Well this new man, who is technically the child's father, would not even have legal rights to the child if something were to happen to the mother. If the mother is hospitalized, he wouldn't even be able to see her in the hospital, because he's technically not the spouse or family. If the couple split up, they wouldn't even be able to split the assets, because they aren't documented as being husband and wife. How on earth is that rational? It sounds like so many problems and complications would ensue from making divorce illegal.

Republic of Korea is one of the few developed countries in this world that actually criminalizes adultery. People who commit adultery actually go to JAIL for 2 years. In the end, it's nobody's business but the people involved. Government has no right to intervene and tell you who you can and can't stay with.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G] * 1
    #16039465 - 04/03/12 07:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
If divorce were actually illegal, then all that would end up happening is people would go around committing adultery.



You might be right...they shouldn't have made the contract in the first place...

Divorce is too easy, so people get married on a whim...who cares?  they know they can always get a divorce...

Promises mean something...otherwise, what is the point?




This is obviously a differential of values between us. I honestly don't see why divorce OR multiple marriages is such a bad thing, or has such a negative connotation. Then again, I think monogamy is overrated, and have never placed an exorbitantly high value on marriage to begin with. And I find the idea of marrying somebody you just met to be wildly passioante and romantic. :shrug: Yes a lifelong marriage is nice and everything if people are in love, but in the end it's just a piece of paper saying you're committed. It's not inherently any more intrinsically valuable than an undocumented committed relationship. Sometimes people who are dating think that the person they are dating is "the one," only to realize after getting married and living together that they are incompatible. Stuff happens.

What you're suggesting wouldn't just cause a spike in adultery, it would also cause cause couples to start making up any excuse under the sun just to get a divorce approved. "She tried to kill me!" "He beats up our children!" Let the false accusations ensue.

Or it would cause people to simply stay legally married, while staying separated in real life--as in, living in different houses, dating different people... It wouldn't actually motivate people to stay together. People would still be living their lives however they want to do it, it simply wouldn't be documented by the government. And this would create a whole hoard of other problems. For example, a couple could agree to a mutual separation, and the woman ends up having a baby with another man that she's in a relationship with (not her legal husband). This is easily a feasible, realistic scenario, right? Well this new man, who is technically the child's father, would not even have legal rights to the child if something were to happen to the mother. If the mother is hospitalized, he wouldn't even be able to see her in the hospital, because he's technically not the spouse or family. If the couple split up, they wouldn't even be able to split the assets, because they aren't documented as being husband and wife. How on earth is that rational? It sounds like so many problems and complications would ensue from making divorce illegal.

Republic of Korea is one of the few developed countries in this world that actually criminalizes adultery. People who commit adultery actually go to JAIL for 2 years. In the end, it's nobody's business but the people involved. Government has no right to intervene and tell you who you can and can't stay with.



We disagree...I would be much happier if there were far, far less people married and those that were married actually were committed...

A promise to stay with someone forever for now isn't a promise at all...

I just dislike the idea of saying something and doing something else...I tend to be pretty rigid when it comes to things like that...


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16039509 - 04/03/12 07:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You haven't really provided an adequate solution for the problems listed, though......

-It would cause a spike in adultery

-Couples would make false accusations about each other just to get a divorce approved

-Or it would cause people to simply stay legally married, while staying separated in real life--as in, living in different houses, dating different people... And this would create a whole hoard of other legal complications and issues. A couple could agree to a mutual separation, and the woman ends up having a baby with another man that she's in a relationship with (not her legal husband). Well, this new man, who is technically the child's father, would not even have legal rights to the child if something were to happen to the mother. If the mother is hospitalized, he wouldn't even be able to see her in the hospital, because he's technically not the spouse or family. If the couple split up, they wouldn't even be able to split the assets, because they aren't documented as being husband and wife. How on earth is that rational? It sounds like so many problems and complications would ensue from making divorce illegal.

How can you, as a lawyer, not think about the legal complications (such as the latter example I posed) when considering laws such as what you're suggesting?


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16039544 - 04/03/12 07:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The concept of monogamy forever has been promoted in our society in the past, because it is based upon Judeo-Christian ideals and indoctrination. It's the same reason people think women who have multiple partners are "sluts" or "harlots," or that wives should go back to their abusive husbands because single motherhood is "bad," or that women who use birth control are "unworthy scum." There is really no logical basis or scientific merit for such claims (including your claim that fidelity and a lifelong marriage is something to be valued), except that it promotes shitty conservative values the Bible teaches.

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum as you. I believe that humans are by nature, polyamorous, and that we should be tolerant of people who want multiple marriages at the same time. As long as all parties involved are consenting to an open marriage, why shouldn't it be allowed?

And while I would choose to be monogamous with somebody I truly loved, I'm not going to go around telling somebody how they can and can't live their lives. We're not a tyrannical or authoritarian government (at least we're not supposed to be and claim we're not), so what business do we have telling people who they can and can't be with, or that they should even get married for the reasons that we THINK we should get married for.

Again, nobody can come up with a logical explanation as to why the government should control who a person stays with, except that YOU don't like it.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16039548 - 04/03/12 07:46 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
You haven't really provided an adequate solution for the problems listed, though......

-It would cause a spike in adultery

-Couples would make false accusations about each other just to get a divorce approved

-Or it would cause people to simply stay legally married, while staying separated in real life--as in, living in different houses, dating different people... And this would create a whole hoard of other legal complications and issues. A couple could agree to a mutual separation, and the woman ends up having a baby with another man that she's in a relationship with (not her legal husband). Well, this new man, who is technically the child's father, would not even have legal rights to the child if something were to happen to the mother. If the mother is hospitalized, he wouldn't even be able to see her in the hospital, because he's technically not the spouse or family. If the couple split up, they wouldn't even be able to split the assets, because they aren't documented as being husband and wife. How on earth is that rational? It sounds like so many problems and complications would ensue from making divorce illegal.

How can you, as a lawyer, not think about the legal complications (such as the latter example I posed) when considering laws such as what you're suggesting?



I don't care about adultery...it's not perfect, but at least they couldn't remarry and break another promise...

divorce fraud would happen as it did before no fault divorce existed...as it still does in states that don't have no fault...I'm not a big fan of choosing laws based on those who would break them...

As far as your other issues, a framework could be worked out...one would hope that these types of complex situations would get less and less common as people start to stay unmarried to avoid these things...I'm not overly concerned that any of these issues are insurmountable.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16039555 - 04/03/12 07:49 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Isn't adultery breaking a promise?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16039575 - 04/03/12 07:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Ridiculous proposition. Just because you personally don't like it, doesn't mean it should be illegal. Another person's divorce doesn't affect you personally in any way, much in the same way that gay marriage doesn't affect anybody else besides the people involved.

If churches don't want to have anything to do with promoting divorce or orchestrating gay marriage because it goes against their religious belief, then that's 1 thing (and legally they shouldn't be forced to be involved). But making it illegal under the eyes of the law just because YOU personally don't like it, is another matter entirely.

Marriage is valued differently to many people, and as a matter of fact I know several people who are in open, polyamorous marriages, which shows that 1 couple's promise simply does not hold true or valid for another couple. Not everybody is completely enamored with the idea of being saved by some prince in a white picket fenced house and having a "happily ever after."


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16039585 - 04/03/12 07:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
If divorce were actually illegal, then all that would end up happening is people would go around committing adultery.



You might be right...they shouldn't have made the contract in the first place...

Divorce is too easy, so people get married on a whim...who cares?  they know they can always get a divorce...

Promises mean something...otherwise, what is the point?




This is obviously a differential of values between us. I honestly don't see why divorce OR multiple marriages is such a bad thing, or has such a negative connotation. Then again, I think monogamy is overrated, and have never placed an exorbitantly high value on marriage to begin with. And I find the idea of marrying somebody you just met to be wildly passioante and romantic. :shrug: Yes a lifelong marriage is nice and everything if people are in love, but in the end it's just a piece of paper saying you're committed. It's not inherently any more intrinsically valuable than an undocumented committed relationship. Sometimes people who are dating think that the person they are dating is "the one," only to realize after getting married and living together that they are incompatible. Stuff happens.

What you're suggesting wouldn't just cause a spike in adultery, it would also cause cause couples to start making up any excuse under the sun just to get a divorce approved. "She tried to kill me!" "He beats up our children!" Let the false accusations ensue.

Or it would cause people to simply stay legally married, while staying separated in real life--as in, living in different houses, dating different people... It wouldn't actually motivate people to stay together. People would still be living their lives however they want to do it, it simply wouldn't be documented by the government. And this would create a whole hoard of other problems. For example, a couple could agree to a mutual separation, and the woman ends up having a baby with another man that she's in a relationship with (not her legal husband). This is easily a feasible, realistic scenario, right? Well this new man, who is technically the child's father, would not even have legal rights to the child if something were to happen to the mother. If the mother is hospitalized, he wouldn't even be able to see her in the hospital, because he's technically not the spouse or family. If the couple split up, they wouldn't even be able to split the assets, because they aren't documented as being husband and wife. How on earth is that rational? It sounds like so many problems and complications would ensue from making divorce illegal.

Republic of Korea is one of the few developed countries in this world that actually criminalizes adultery. People who commit adultery actually go to JAIL for 2 years. In the end, it's nobody's business but the people involved. Government has no right to intervene and tell you who you can and can't stay with.



We disagree...I would be much happier if there were far, far less people married and those that were married actually were committed...

A promise to stay with someone forever for now isn't a promise at all...

I just dislike the idea of saying something and doing something else...I tend to be pretty rigid when it comes to things like that...





Don't get married. By the time you're my age you know that things change. To actually think you'll know how you will feel 20 years down the road is pretty silly imo.  btw I've never married. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16039587 - 04/03/12 07:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Me not buying you something does not constitute me forbidding you something.  Why do you lie?  Birth control is cheap as shit.  Fucking buy it yourself and stop panhandling.




Why the fuck do you even bother posting unless you're going to read the link?


  I read the link to the bill which doesn't say what you say it does.  Hence my description of you as a liar.
Quote:

This has to do with employers firing women for using birth control, it has absolutely nothing to do with government paid birth control. Seriously, are u illiterate? If you're going to make a contradictory statement then at least make an effort to come across as seemingly intelligent.


  Do you not understand that every time someone receives a private insurance benefit it costs ALL subscribers?  Buy your own whore pills and get the fuck out of my wallet.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16039621 - 04/03/12 08:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I read the link to the bill which doesn't say what you say it does.  Hence my description of you as a liar.




Why don't you actually write something of substantive value for once, or at the very least QUOTE which part of the article has ANYTHING to do with your tremendously stupid psychobabble.

The opening paragraphs from the links I posted:

Quote:

A proposed new law in Arizona would give employers the power to request that women being prescribed birth control pills provide proof that they're using it for non-sexual reasons. And because Arizona's an at-will employment state, that means that bosses critical of their female employees' sex lives could fire them as a result.




Quote:

First, a bill that gives immunity to doctors who lie to couples about the results of their prenatal tests in order to prevent them from getting an abortion. Now, a bill that would give your boss the green light to fire you for using birth control.




Again, I ask, are you illiterate?

Quote:

Do you not understand that every time someone receives a private insurance benefit it costs ALL subscribers?  Buy your own whore pills and get the fuck out of my wallet.




Jesus fucking Christ. Insurance covering birth control (which is completely fucking understandable, seeing as how reproductive health is a MEDICAL issue, just like insurance covering heart conditions, diabetes, or vascectomies)is NOT the same as state covered birth control. You can't pick and choose which health issues you want insurance to cover. You're probably one of those guys who cry, "Oh I want my Viagra and vascetomy covered, but NOT birth control!" :rolleyes:

Not to mention, your ideologically stupid and moronic rants have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. Obviously you're only posting such incredulous idiocy because you're only here to troll and derail the thread. I don't truly believe ANYBODY could possibly be that fucking stupid in real life.

If you want to go on a stupid rant about whether insurance companies should cover birth control, then make your own thread. Don't bogart another person's thread with your moronic rants that have no relevance to the original topic.


Edited by Crystal G (04/03/12 08:18 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16039683 - 04/03/12 08:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm I don't want to be forced to buy an insurance plan that covers Viagra, either.  Buy your own pills.  There is no fucking reason why they need to be included just because you can cobble together some medical crap.  If there actually is a medical reason for someone it should be covered (and there are medical reasons for viagra not related to fucking).  If it is just because you want to fuck without worrying about spawn then you can damn fucking well pay for it.

I wish I could buy an insurance plan that covers about a quarter of what I am forced to cover.  Because of the government and whores who want me to pay for their fucktools, among other things.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16039722 - 04/03/12 08:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Ummmmmmmmmmmmm I don't want to be forced to buy an insurance plan that covers Viagra, either.  Buy your own pills.  There is no fucking reason why they need to be included just because you can cobble together some medical crap.  If there actually is a medical reason for someone it should be covered (and there are medical reasons for viagra not related to fucking).  If it is just because you want to fuck without worrying about spawn then you can damn fucking well pay for it.

I wish I could buy an insurance plan that covers about a quarter of what I am forced to cover.  Because of the government and whores who want me to pay for their fucktools, among other things.




This is the most uninformed statement about birth control I've heard yet today.

Are you not aware that birth control IS often used for medical reasons? It's also used to treat polycystic ovarian syndrome, ovarian cancer, acne (which is a skin infection, thus considered medically necessary), alleviating cramps, regulating cycles, regulating hormonal imbalances, acts as a less-cancerous version of hormone replacement therapy for women with menopause...

There's a FUCKLOAD of medical reasons for taking the pill. Just because you personally are so uninformed that you lack any medical knowledge about what reasons people take birth control, doesn't mean that medical reasons for taking birth control don't exist.

It's so funny, because guys like you are the same exact guys who accuse people welfare-dependent people of being "scum." Yet, when people try to make birth control more accessible and easier to get for women who can't afford it, thus DECREASING her chances of having to go on welfare in the future, you guys are against that too. :rolleyes:

Do you not even realize how much money you, as a taxpayer, would save, if you simply made it so all women could have easy access to birth control? THINK ABOUT IT. Society SAVES a fuckload of money in the long run by doing this.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16039726 - 04/03/12 08:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe employers don't want to have very sexual active women as employees, these woman who constantly think about sex are often distracted with the task on hand.

If they are very sexually active, they are more likely to have emotional issues and could even get pregnant. Employees might want woman that do not burden them with all these issues, and do a better job.

If they get pregnant, this could burden the company and cost them money down the road.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: qman]
    #16039734 - 04/03/12 08:31 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Maybe employers don't want to have very sexual active women as employees, these woman who constantly think about sex are often distracted with the task on hand.

If they are very sexually active, they are more likely to have emotional issues and could even get pregnant.




:rolleyes: Sooo many misrepresentations and myths presented as "facts" in this post. Sounds like the exact same shit people were saying about women in the workforce back in the 1950s.

Never mind the fact that there is absolutely no basis to suggest that promiscuous women are any better or worse at work than chaste women. There is even no evidence to suggest women who take birth control pills have any more or less sex than women who don't.

Oh, and discriminating against women for pregnancy is illegal. not to mention, the entire purpose of birth control is to not get pregnant so there goes your pregnancy claim.


Edited by Crystal G (04/03/12 08:40 PM)


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16039794 - 04/03/12 08:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Ridiculous proposition. Just because you personally don't like it, doesn't mean it should be illegal. Another person's divorce doesn't affect you personally in any way, much in the same way that gay marriage doesn't affect anybody else besides the people involved.

If churches don't want to have anything to do with promoting divorce or orchestrating gay marriage because it goes against their religious belief, then that's 1 thing (and legally they shouldn't be forced to be involved). But making it illegal under the eyes of the law just because YOU personally don't like it, is another matter entirely.

Marriage is valued differently to many people, and as a matter of fact I know several people who are in open, polyamorous marriages, which shows that 1 couple's promise simply does not hold true or valid for another couple. Not everybody is completely enamored with the idea of being saved by some prince in a white picket fenced house and having a "happily ever after."



You're making much more out of what I said...If I had my way, there would be no legal recognition of marriage at all...people could have whatever religious or ceremonial bond they want...I couldn't care less...

I just think if you're going to legally recognize an oath, it should mean something...


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16039845 - 04/03/12 08:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:

A promise to stay with someone forever for now isn't a promise at all...




Could you please quote me the legal contract or statute that says marriage is a promise to stay together forever?


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Chespirito]
    #16039856 - 04/03/12 08:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Chespirito said:
Quote:

Enlil said:

A promise to stay with someone forever for now isn't a promise at all...




Could you please quote me the legal contract or statute that says marriage is a promise to stay together forever?



It isn't a legal contract...why would you think it was?


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16039984 - 04/03/12 09:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

qman said:
Maybe employers don't want to have very sexual active women as employees, these woman who constantly think about sex are often distracted with the task on hand.

If they are very sexually active, they are more likely to have emotional issues and could even get pregnant.




:rolleyes: Sooo many misrepresentations and myths presented as "facts" in this post. Sounds like the exact same shit people were saying about women in the workforce back in the 1950s.

Never mind the fact that there is absolutely no basis to suggest that promiscuous women are any better or worse at work than chaste women. There is even no evidence to suggest women who take birth control pills have any more or less sex than women who don't.

Oh, and discriminating against women for pregnancy is illegal. not to mention, the entire purpose of birth control is to not get pregnant so there goes your pregnancy claim.





Well, we know that birth control pills do have a small failure rate, so pregnancy is still a risk. My father and others claim the 1950's was the best era of American history, so let's not be judgmental to that time frame.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: qman]
    #16040790 - 04/03/12 11:52 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I saw this coming a mile away, youre blind if you didnt.

i dont know if -i told you so- on this forum but i have been saying this will happen since the beginning of this birth control thing.

birth control coverage for women makes them more expensive to employ because theyll have a higher premium.

women shot themself in the foot over this so dont bitch now, its your own short sighted fault.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Shins]
    #16041116 - 04/04/12 01:23 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
I saw this coming a mile away, youre blind if you didnt.

i dont know if -i told you so- on this forum but i have been saying this will happen since the beginning of this birth control thing.

birth control coverage for women makes them more expensive to employ because theyll have a higher premium.

women shot themself in the foot over this so dont bitch now, its your own short sighted fault.



That's pretty much nonsense...Men have a much, much higher rate of heart disease, and the costs associated with that more than offset any cost due to birth control


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16041535 - 04/04/12 04:12 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe so, and it might not be completely rational, but men's coverage hasnt changed recently as far as i know so the cost to employ is stable. 


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: qman]
    #16041676 - 04/04/12 06:14 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

qman said:
Maybe employers don't want to have very sexual active women as employees, these woman who constantly think about sex are often distracted with the task on hand.

If they are very sexually active, they are more likely to have emotional issues and could even get pregnant.




:rolleyes: Sooo many misrepresentations and myths presented as "facts" in this post. Sounds like the exact same shit people were saying about women in the workforce back in the 1950s.

Never mind the fact that there is absolutely no basis to suggest that promiscuous women are any better or worse at work than chaste women. There is even no evidence to suggest women who take birth control pills have any more or less sex than women who don't.

Oh, and discriminating against women for pregnancy is illegal. not to mention, the entire purpose of birth control is to not get pregnant so there goes your pregnancy claim.





Well, we know that birth control pills do have a small failure rate, so pregnancy is still a risk. My father and others claim the 1950's was the best era of American history, so let's not be judgmental to that time frame.




Yea, maybe it was the best era of American history if you were a middle to upper class, white male. You're exhibiting your white privilege and your male privilege, and frankly, it's annoying.


Shin: Did you not read my comment about how much money you, as a taxpayer, would save, if you simply made it so all women could have easy access to birth control? JUST SIT DOWN AND THINK ABOUT IT. Society SAVES a fuckload of money in the long run by making birth control affordable and cheap.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16041754 - 04/04/12 07:38 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Ummmmmmmmmmmmm I don't want to be forced to buy an insurance plan that covers Viagra, either.  Buy your own pills.  There is no fucking reason why they need to be included just because you can cobble together some medical crap.  If there actually is a medical reason for someone it should be covered (and there are medical reasons for viagra not related to fucking).  If it is just because you want to fuck without worrying about spawn then you can damn fucking well pay for it.

I wish I could buy an insurance plan that covers about a quarter of what I am forced to cover.  Because of the government and whores who want me to pay for their fucktools, among other things.




This is the most uninformed statement about birth control I've heard yet today.

Are you not aware that birth control IS often used for medical reasons? It's also used to treat polycystic ovarian syndrome, ovarian cancer, acne (which is a skin infection, thus considered medically necessary), alleviating cramps, regulating cycles, regulating hormonal imbalances, acts as a less-cancerous version of hormone replacement therapy for women with menopause...

There's a FUCKLOAD of medical reasons for taking the pill. Just because you personally are so uninformed that you lack any medical knowledge about what reasons people take birth control, doesn't mean that medical reasons for taking birth control don't exist.

It's so funny, because guys like you are the same exact guys who accuse people welfare-dependent people of being "scum." Yet, when people try to make birth control more accessible and easier to get for women who can't afford it, thus DECREASING her chances of having to go on welfare in the future, you guys are against that too. :rolleyes:

Do you not even realize how much money you, as a taxpayer, would save, if you simply made it so all women could have easy access to birth control? THINK ABOUT IT. Society SAVES a fuckload of money in the long run by doing this.




1.  There is a provision in the bill for medical uses of birth control pills, (that does seem to be the only form of BC you are talking about).
2.  Birth control is cheap as fuck, buy your own.
3.  Society doesn't save money.  It doesn't have a bank account. 
4.  Imagine how much money society would save if it sterilized losers.  Do you have any idea how monstrous the whole spurious "society would save money" argument is?


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16041767 - 04/04/12 07:50 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
1.  There is a provision in the bill for medical uses of birth control pills, (that does seem to be the only form of BC you are talking about).
2.  Birth control is cheap as fuck, buy your own.
3.  Society doesn't save money.  It doesn't have a bank account. 
4.  Imagine how much money society would save if it sterilized losers.  Do you have any idea how monstrous the whole spurious "society would save money" argument is?



Wow...English must not be your first language...You do know that there are multiple definitions of the word "save", don't you?

When she was talking about money that taxpayers would "save", she was using the word in this sense:

"3. To prevent the waste or loss of; conserve"

When you talk about society not having a bank account, and therefore doesn't "save" money, you're using this definition:

"5. To set aside for future use; store"

If you don't know the difference, then maybe you should read a book or something.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16041803 - 04/04/12 08:17 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Ummmmmmmmmmmmm I don't want to be forced to buy an insurance plan that covers Viagra, either.  Buy your own pills.  There is no fucking reason why they need to be included just because you can cobble together some medical crap.  If there actually is a medical reason for someone it should be covered (and there are medical reasons for viagra not related to fucking).  If it is just because you want to fuck without worrying about spawn then you can damn fucking well pay for it.

I wish I could buy an insurance plan that covers about a quarter of what I am forced to cover.  Because of the government and whores who want me to pay for their fucktools, among other things.




This is the most uninformed statement about birth control I've heard yet today.

Are you not aware that birth control IS often used for medical reasons? It's also used to treat polycystic ovarian syndrome, ovarian cancer, acne (which is a skin infection, thus considered medically necessary), alleviating cramps, regulating cycles, regulating hormonal imbalances, acts as a less-cancerous version of hormone replacement therapy for women with menopause...

There's a FUCKLOAD of medical reasons for taking the pill. Just because you personally are so uninformed that you lack any medical knowledge about what reasons people take birth control, doesn't mean that medical reasons for taking birth control don't exist.

It's so funny, because guys like you are the same exact guys who accuse people welfare-dependent people of being "scum." Yet, when people try to make birth control more accessible and easier to get for women who can't afford it, thus DECREASING her chances of having to go on welfare in the future, you guys are against that too. :rolleyes:

Do you not even realize how much money you, as a taxpayer, would save, if you simply made it so all women could have easy access to birth control? THINK ABOUT IT. Society SAVES a fuckload of money in the long run by doing this.




1.  There is a provision in the bill for medical uses of birth control pills, (that does seem to be the only form of BC you are talking about).
2.  Birth control is cheap as fuck, buy your own.
3.  Society doesn't save money.  It doesn't have a bank account. 
4.  Imagine how much money society would save if it sterilized losers.  Do you have any idea how monstrous the whole spurious "society would save money" argument is?




Where do u get the idea that birth control is "cheap as fuck?" Even the cheapest birth control costs 600 to 1200 a year with no insurance. In the time it takes a college student to graduate it costs them between 2000 and 4000 dollars.

Do u realize, that the allowed provision for medical reasons would simply cause women to ask their doctors to write a note for their employers saying they're on birth control for medical reasons? Obgyns are usually liberal; if they were that conservative they wouldn't go into an industry that provides birth control and abortions.

Do you support health insurance covering vascectomies, yes or no? If you're going to act like an old conservative country bumpkin, at least be consistent.

I hate people who have absolutely no concept of social conscientiousness. Do u know why countries such as japan and sweden have such low murder and crime rates?  It is because of STATE PAID university education and higher socioeconomic status that the govt helped to create. but I also believe there's deeper cultural reasons that influence how people treat each other. When there's less of an emphasis on the "I" and individual rights, and more emphasis on the collective "we," it only follows that people will be more likely to take care of each other.

This mentality is even exemplified in the politics of sweden. The right of the entire population to have access to fundamental necessities such as medical care and higher education at the expense of a higher tax, far exceeds american values and concerns about not wanting to pay for somebody elses medical or living expenses simply because you are stingy and don't feel like spending your own money. The values we indoctrinate harbor a huge emphasis on the personal "I" in this country instead of the greater social good, and I have the inclination this is one of the many factors that contributes to the high murder rate

Unlike access to birth control, sterilizing people forcefully is a violation of ur constitutional rights. That's why the 2 are not remotely comparable. And if u had any concept of history, u would have known many societies, including the US, practiced eugenics and malthusianism in the past century and miserably failed.

A better comparison would have been to compare state paid birth control pills to housing the homeless. A lot of people don't want to pay for housing for the homeless. But considering the fact that the average homeless person costs approximately 40,000 a year, and they could be housed for a tiny fraction of that price, society saves an assload of money by housing the homeless. Getting rid of homelessness also increases housing rates, so the taxpayer directly benefits from paying for the homeless. Similar to how society benefits when women have access to birth control.

Enlil, thank u for clarifying for me. Apparently zappa doesn't know the difference between profit revenue and minimizing waste. :lol:


Edited by Crystal G (04/04/12 08:31 AM)


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16041819 - 04/04/12 08:28 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Where do u get the idea that birth control is "cheap as fuck?" Even the cheapest birth control costs 600 to 1200 a year with no insurance. In the time it takes a college student to graduate it costs them between 2000 and 4000 dollars.


That's not true...abstinence is way cheaper.
Quote:


Do you support health insurance covering vascectomies, yes or no?


Thank god my insurance covered my vasectomy..that was the best $5 I ever spent.
Quote:


Do u know why countries such as japan and sweden have such low murder and crime rates?  It is because of STATE PAID university education and higher socioeconomic status that the govt helped to create.


What proof do you have that education or socioeconomic status are the causes of the low murder rate?
Quote:


Enlil, thank u for clarifying for me.



You know what a definition nazi I am  :minigun:


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16041832 - 04/04/12 08:36 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Enlil,abstinence is not even a remotely realistic or feasible expectation. Consider the fact that in the US, teen pregnancy rates are significantly higher in states that promote abstinence in schools, rather than safe sex. In other words, it costs society more money to promote abstinence.

Also there is no way to completely prove something in society is the cause of something. You can correlate it, but to causate it is impossible. But socioeconomic status is A FACTOR and directly tied to the prevalence of violent crime, even within the nation. Statistics prove people who usually commit crimes are un educated and poor. Society improves as a whole when people have access to things like education.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16041837 - 04/04/12 08:43 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Enlil,abstinence is not even a remotely realistic or feasible expectation. Consider the fact that in the US, teen pregnancy rates are significantly higher in states that promote abstinence in schools, rather than safe sex. In other words, it costs society more money to promote abstinence.


I agree...but that doesn't make it fair to say "even the cheapest birth control is $600 a year."
Quote:


Also there is no way to completely prove something in society is the cause of something. You can correlate it, but to causate it is impossible. But socioeconomic status is A FACTOR and directly tied to the prevalence of violent crime, even within the nation. Statistics prove people who usually commit crimes are un educated and poor. Society improves as a whole when people have access to things like education.



I'd agree with this, too...In the U.S. data supports that the drop in crime beginning in the 90's was mostly the product of abortion becoming legal.  If this is true, then easier access to birth control could continue that trend since there are probably people who do not want children but who would not get an abortion...Birth control removes those unwanted children from the equation as well..

It's unconstitutional as hell..But if I were king (which will one day happen...you'll see)...everyone would be sterilized at birth...marriage would only be allowed after age 25 and 2 years of "marital traning academy."  Having a child would only be allowed after four years of training and a rigorous background/psychological exam...


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16041968 - 04/04/12 09:46 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

How do you allow children if everyone was sterilized at birth?  You are quite the powerful king. :laugh:



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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #16041974 - 04/04/12 09:48 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
How do you allow children if everyone was sterilized at birth?  You are quite the powerful king. :laugh:





Technology has changed a bit since you were of reproductive age, pops...we now have test tube babies...imagine that!


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16041982 - 04/04/12 09:50 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Will they all look like you?


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #16041986 - 04/04/12 09:53 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Will they all look like you?



Nah...they'll all be genetically engineered to look like this:


That way, if anyone avoids the sterilization procedures, we're still unlikely to have any unapproved pregnancy.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16041992 - 04/04/12 09:56 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You'd be surprised what humans will fuck.  Well maybe you wouldn't.


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #16042006 - 04/04/12 10:01 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You'd be surprised what humans will fuck.  Well maybe you wouldn't.



I wouldn't fuck that in a million years...

...I'd make loooove....


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16042036 - 04/04/12 10:14 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

wow, how uhh... err, would you use it for non medical reasons? I'm sure companies LOVE to pay for those drug tests. So do people get high on birth control or what? How do they prove they are getting knocked up and are trying not to get knocked up? They need to be screened for semen or something?

Does any of this sound like abuse in many ways? I just read the OP and replied and didn't read any of the rest of this, might as well give it a shot


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It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: qman]
    #16042055 - 04/04/12 10:20 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Maybe employers don't want to have very sexual active women as employees, these woman who constantly think about sex are often distracted with the task on hand.

If they are very sexually active, they are more likely to have emotional issues and could even get pregnant. Employees might want woman that do not burden them with all these issues, and do a better job.

If they get pregnant, this could burden the company and cost them money down the road.




what does taking birth control have to do with being sexually active? Women working for minimum wage over $7.00 an hour and are married can afford to have 8 kids?? WTF!??!?!!


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16042213 - 04/04/12 11:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Where do u get the idea that birth control is "cheap as fuck?"



From the thoroughly sourced information that a month's supply of birth control pills is available from numerous vendors (Target, for one) for less than ten dollars. True story, brah.


Phred


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Phred]
    #16042216 - 04/04/12 11:28 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

Where do u get the idea that birth control is "cheap as fuck?"



From the thoroughly sourced information that a month's supply of birth control pills is available from numerous vendors (Target, for one) for less than ten dollars. True story, brah.


Phred



That's not cheap as fuck...I've had many fucks that were less than $10 a month.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: imachavel] * 1
    #16042419 - 04/04/12 12:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

qman said:
Maybe employers don't want to have very sexual active women as employees, these woman who constantly think about sex are often distracted with the task on hand.

If they are very sexually active, they are more likely to have emotional issues and could even get pregnant. Employees might want woman that do not burden them with all these issues, and do a better job.

If they get pregnant, this could burden the company and cost them money down the road.




what does taking birth control have to do with being sexually active? Women working for minimum wage over $7.00 an hour and are married can afford to have 8 kids?? WTF!??!?!!





Birth control pills= sexually active women 99% of the time. Woman that work for $7.00 an hour should not have children, and should adjust their behavior accordingly, or find a rich man.


Edited by qman (04/04/12 12:39 PM)


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16042434 - 04/04/12 12:32 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
You'd be surprised what humans will fuck.  Well maybe you wouldn't.



I wouldn't fuck that in a million years...

...I'd make loooove....





You're obviously not from the south then.


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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16042771 - 04/04/12 01:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Chespirito said:
Quote:

Enlil said:

A promise to stay with someone forever for now isn't a promise at all...




Could you please quote me the legal contract or statute that says marriage is a promise to stay together forever?



It isn't a legal contract...why would you think it was?





You were saying, either a promise to stay together means something or it doesnt as your reason why divorce shouldn't be allowed.  What promise are you referring to?  I can get married to anyone without ever uttering such a promise, basically the entire foundation of your argument is nonsense.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Chespirito]
    #16042795 - 04/04/12 02:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Chespirito said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Chespirito said:
Quote:

Enlil said:

A promise to stay with someone forever for now isn't a promise at all...




Could you please quote me the legal contract or statute that says marriage is a promise to stay together forever?



It isn't a legal contract...why would you think it was?





You were saying, either a promise to stay together means something or it doesnt as your reason why divorce shouldn't be allowed.  What promise are you referring to?  I can get married to anyone without ever uttering such a promise, basically the entire foundation of your argument is nonsense.



I realize you've got a hard on for me, but I never said anything at all about how marriage is a binding contract or that it should be a legal promise...that's a straw man...

I said that if a promise is made it should mean something...

I also said that divorce should be severely limited...

I never said that you had to make a promise to get married...and I never said you had to be married to make a promise...

What are you trying to prove here, sonny?  I'm not making an argument for anything.  I've shared my beliefs...if you disagree, that's fine...don't get butthurt because everyone doesn't believe like you do.  As I said before, if it were up to me, marriage wouldn't even be a legal status...it would be something people do on their terms...


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16042966 - 04/04/12 02:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I just literally have no idea what you're talking about.

"I said that if a promise is made it should mean something"

What promise?? 

Whats the promise?

What is the promise?


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Chespirito]
    #16042981 - 04/04/12 02:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Chespirito said:
I just literally have no idea what you're talking about.

"I said that if a promise is made it should mean something"

What promise?? 

Whats the promise?

What is the promise?



Any promise...any hypothetical promise...why is that hard for you to understand?


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16043006 - 04/04/12 02:46 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

alright, carry on with other things


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16043022 - 04/04/12 02:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I just think if you're going to stand up and make a vow to stick with someone for the rest of your life, that should mean that you're going to stick with someone for the rest of your life



Basically your point, is that the law of divorce should run on whether you at some point have made a previously legally non-binding vow.  So two people who just get married without this vow can get divorced, but two people that have made it cannot.

its just madness, just pure madness


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16043027 - 04/04/12 02:49 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
If divorce were actually illegal, then all that would end up happening is people would go around committing adultery.



You might be right...they shouldn't have made the contract in the first place...

Divorce is too easy, so people get married on a whim...who cares?  they know they can always get a divorce...

Promises mean something...otherwise, what is the point?




'the contract'

Its apparent youre trying to backtrack on what you were originally claiming


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Chespirito]
    #16043070 - 04/04/12 02:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Chespirito said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
If divorce were actually illegal, then all that would end up happening is people would go around committing adultery.



You might be right...they shouldn't have made the contract in the first place...

Divorce is too easy, so people get married on a whim...who cares?  they know they can always get a divorce...

Promises mean something...otherwise, what is the point?




'the contract'

Its apparent youre trying to backtrack on what you were originally claiming



Jesus...you're obsessed...

It's quite simple...marriage isn't a contract...I believe that if it is going to be legally recognized (which I wish it wasn't) then it should be recognized as a contract...it isn't recognized as a contract...

The world wasn't designed by me, and alas, I am not yet omnipotent...

let me clarify one more time...My belief is:

1.  Marriage should not be legally recognized.
2.  If marriage must be legally recognized, it should be a binding contract
3.  Getting out of that contract should require specific circumstances.

Agree or don't agree...I couldn't care less...

I also believe:

If you're going to make a promise to stay with someone for life, you should keep that promise.  This isn't a legal theory or argument...This is my moral belief...

Is there anything else that you need clarification on?  I'd hate to see your head explode.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16043160 - 04/04/12 03:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

you live in an unrealistic world my friend , 50% of married people eventually divorce .. people dont get married thinking how easily it can be to get a divorced .. that is complete uterless nonsense .. people get married because they either think their in love or for the children. im never having children or getting married.. thats for suckas.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16043161 - 04/04/12 03:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

you live in an unrealistic world my friend , 50% of married people eventually divorce .. people dont get married thinking how easily it can be to get a divorced .. that is complete uterless nonsense .. people get married because they either think their in love or for the children.  im never having children or getting married.. thats for suckas.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Kinko]
    #16043183 - 04/04/12 03:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Kinko said:
you live in an unrealistic world my friend , 50% of married people eventually divorce .. people dont get married thinking how easily it can be to get a divorced .. that is complete uterless nonsense .. people get married because they either think their in love or for the children.  im never having children or getting married.. thats for suckas.



There was a time in this country when divorce was very, very rare...

People get divorced these days for the stupidest of reasons...If you're not in love anymore...just get a divorce!  Wanna fuck someone else?  Get a divorce!

To me, that's nonsense...There is a reason that many ceremonies include the words "better or worse."

Maybe it's true that most people can't stay married for life...IMO, this means most people shouldn't get married in the first place.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16043462 - 04/04/12 04:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Divorce is good for the economy. Keeps the money moving. :lol:


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #16043497 - 04/04/12 04:16 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Divorce is good for the economy. Keeps the money moving. :lol:



That's true...and the lawyers get paid...so I guess I should be happy about that...

...Although I could never take a divorce case.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #16043528 - 04/04/12 04:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I was able to retire at 55 without any debt for several reasons.  Two huge ones were, no wife and no kids.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16043949 - 04/04/12 06:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

Where do u get the idea that birth control is "cheap as fuck?"



From the thoroughly sourced information that a month's supply of birth control pills is available from numerous vendors (Target, for one) for less than ten dollars. True story, brah.

Phred




That's only for certain brands (which some women can't use because they react differently to different levels of oestrogen, progesterone, spironolactone, and other hormone suppressors and exacerbators), and is likely the price in combination with insurance.


Quote:

qman said:
Birth control pills= sexually active women 99% of the time. Woman that work for $7.00 an hour should not have children, and should adjust their behavior accordingly, or find a rich man.




Women & Men = sexually active most of the time, regardless of whether they take birth control or not. There is no reason to suggest that women who take birth control are any more or less sexually active than women who use no birth control.

Case in point: I do not use birth control. I despise the side effects that come with it (kills your sex drive, causes yeast infections, bloating), so the only time I have ever taken it was when I had to, for medical reasons. I consider myself more sexually active than the average women, even ones that take birth onctrol.

"Find a rich man." Do you realize the sheer profound audacity of your statement? Yea, THAT'S a really good piece of advice. :rolleyes: "Just become gold diggers, ladies! No need to become a better person, improve your intellect, or aspire for high goals. That's MAN stuff. You gals just take care of your hair and nails and focus on finding a rich man."

Quote:

Enlil said:
Jesus...you're obsessed...

It's quite simple...marriage isn't a contract...I believe that if it is going to be legally recognized (which I wish it wasn't) then it should be recognized as a contract...it isn't recognized as a contract...

The world wasn't designed by me, and alas, I am not yet omnipotent...

let me clarify one more time...My belief is:

1.  Marriage should not be legally recognized.
2.  If marriage must be legally recognized, it should be a binding contract
3.  Getting out of that contract should require specific circumstances.

Agree or don't agree...I couldn't care less...

I also believe:

If you're going to make a promise to stay with someone for life, you should keep that promise.  This isn't a legal theory or argument...This is my moral belief...

Is there anything else that you need clarification on?  I'd hate to see your head explode.




And exactly how the hell are people supposed to predict how they will feel about their spouse 20 years down the road? It stands to logically reason that people's characters and personalities change as they age, thus compatibilities are inevitable to change.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16043955 - 04/04/12 06:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I'm very rich. :satansmoking:

PM me. :wink:


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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16043957 - 04/04/12 06:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
And exactly how the hell are people supposed to predict how they will feel about their spouse 20 years down the road? It stands to logically reason that people's characters and personalities change as they age, thus compatibilities are inevitable to change.



That's just it...you don't...You stay together and work it out no matter how you "feel" about your spouse...


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16043960 - 04/04/12 06:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:curbyourenthusiasm::thumbup:  Good one.


--------------------
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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16043971 - 04/04/12 06:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Enlil,abstinence is not even a remotely realistic or feasible expectation. Consider the fact that in the US, teen pregnancy rates are significantly higher in states that promote abstinence in schools, rather than safe sex. In other words, it costs society more money to promote abstinence.


I agree...but that doesn't make it fair to say "even the cheapest birth control is $600 a year."
Quote:


Also there is no way to completely prove something in society is the cause of something. You can correlate it, but to causate it is impossible. But socioeconomic status is A FACTOR and directly tied to the prevalence of violent crime, even within the nation. Statistics prove people who usually commit crimes are un educated and poor. Society improves as a whole when people have access to things like education.



I'd agree with this, too...In the U.S. data supports that the drop in crime beginning in the 90's was mostly the product of abortion becoming legal.  If this is true, then easier access to birth control could continue that trend since there are probably people who do not want children but who would not get an abortion...Birth control removes those unwanted children from the equation as well..

It's unconstitutional as hell..But if I were king (which will one day happen...you'll see)...everyone would be sterilized at birth...marriage would only be allowed after age 25 and 2 years of "marital traning academy."  Having a child would only be allowed after four years of training and a rigorous background/psychological exam...




Exactly. And I know exactly which study you're talking about; point being, society IMPROVES in the long run when you give economically underprivileged women access to birth control and abortions, and letting women take control of their reproductive rights. Obviously people who are bitching and whining about being too stingy to pay for birth control are not thinking about the long-run and the bigger picture.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16044039 - 04/04/12 06:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Ummmmmmmmmmmmm I don't want to be forced to buy an insurance plan that covers Viagra, either.  Buy your own pills.  There is no fucking reason why they need to be included just because you can cobble together some medical crap.  If there actually is a medical reason for someone it should be covered (and there are medical reasons for viagra not related to fucking).  If it is just because you want to fuck without worrying about spawn then you can damn fucking well pay for it.

I wish I could buy an insurance plan that covers about a quarter of what I am forced to cover.  Because of the government and whores who want me to pay for their fucktools, among other things.




This is the most uninformed statement about birth control I've heard yet today.

Are you not aware that birth control IS often used for medical reasons? It's also used to treat polycystic ovarian syndrome, ovarian cancer, acne (which is a skin infection, thus considered medically necessary), alleviating cramps, regulating cycles, regulating hormonal imbalances, acts as a less-cancerous version of hormone replacement therapy for women with menopause...

There's a FUCKLOAD of medical reasons for taking the pill. Just because you personally are so uninformed that you lack any medical knowledge about what reasons people take birth control, doesn't mean that medical reasons for taking birth control don't exist.

It's so funny, because guys like you are the same exact guys who accuse people welfare-dependent people of being "scum." Yet, when people try to make birth control more accessible and easier to get for women who can't afford it, thus DECREASING her chances of having to go on welfare in the future, you guys are against that too. :rolleyes:

Do you not even realize how much money you, as a taxpayer, would save, if you simply made it so all women could have easy access to birth control? THINK ABOUT IT. Society SAVES a fuckload of money in the long run by doing this.




1.  There is a provision in the bill for medical uses of birth control pills, (that does seem to be the only form of BC you are talking about).
2.  Birth control is cheap as fuck, buy your own.
3.  Society doesn't save money.  It doesn't have a bank account. 
4.  Imagine how much money society would save if it sterilized losers.  Do you have any idea how monstrous the whole spurious "society would save money" argument is?




Where do u get the idea that birth control is "cheap as fuck?" Even the cheapest birth control costs 600 to 1200 a year with no insurance. In the time it takes a college student to graduate it costs them between 2000 and 4000 dollars.




Condoms are a dollar a piece when you can't find some organization giving them away for free and the pill can be bought for $9 a month
http://radioviceonline.com/cost-for-birth-control-pills-near-georgetown-9-at-target/
You can put your facts back in the ass you pulled them from
Quote:





Do u realize, that the allowed provision for medical reasons would simply cause women to ask their doctors to write a note for their employers saying they're on birth control for medical reasons? Obgyns are usually liberal; if they were that conservative they wouldn't go into an industry that provides birth control and abortions.




As long as they aren't giving fraudulent prescriptions for which they can lose their license I don't care.  Insurance fraud is insurance fraud.
Quote:



Do you support health insurance covering vascectomies, yes or no? If you're going to act like an old conservative country bumpkin, at least be consistent.




If you want to buy insurance that covers that then you should be allowed to.  If you want to buy insurance that doesn't cover that you should be allowed to.  Freedom, not a liberals idea.
Quote:



I hate people who have absolutely no concept of social conscientiousness. Do u know why countries such as japan and sweden have such low murder and crime rates?  It is because of STATE PAID university education and higher socioeconomic status that the govt helped to create. but I also believe there's deeper cultural reasons that influence how people treat each other. When there's less of an emphasis on the "I" and individual rights, and more emphasis on the collective "we," it only follows that people will be more likely to take care of each other.




Well OK then Komrade.  I vehemently disagree.  Especially in regard to you substituting the state for voluntary charity.  Coercion is coercion and it fosters only resentment.  I may willingly help a bum on the street and feel good about it but if the money is pried out of my hands and some asshole bureaucrat decides which bums are worthy I will feel only resentment.  I'm willing to help the bums I choose, not the bums you choose.  You can help the bums you choose.  With your money.  I would also posit that the reason there is much less murder and strife in Sweden and Japan is because they are monocultural.
Quote:



This mentality is even exemplified in the politics of sweden. The right of the entire population to have access to fundamental necessities such as medical care and higher education at the expense of a higher tax, far exceeds american values and concerns about not wanting to pay for somebody elses medical or living expenses simply because you are stingy and don't feel like spending your own money. The values we indoctrinate harbor a huge emphasis on the personal "I" in this country instead of the greater social good, and I have the inclination this is one of the many factors that contributes to the high murder rate.


  There are too many people wasting their time attaining useless credentials.
Quote:



Unlike access to birth control, sterilizing people forcefully is a violation of ur constitutional rights. That's why the 2 are not remotely comparable. And if u had any concept of history, u would have known many societies, including the US, practiced eugenics and malthusianism in the past century and miserably failed.




You weren't making an argument about the Constitutionality of a law since you never mentioned it.  You just made an argument about cost.  I can just as well argue that, and it looks like it is going to win, that forcing people to purchase a product is unconstitutional.  Buy your own whore pills.  Don't force me to buy them for you.  Regardless, you went down the slippery slope of societal cost.  I find it monstrous.
Quote:



A better comparison would have been to compare state paid birth control pills to housing the homeless. A lot of people don't want to pay for housing for the homeless. But considering the fact that the average homeless person costs approximately 40,000 a year, and they could be housed for a tiny fraction of that price, society saves an assload of money by housing the homeless. Getting rid of homelessness also increases housing rates, so the taxpayer directly benefits from paying for the homeless. Similar to how society benefits when women have access to birth control.




How does a homeless person not housed by the state cost the state $40,000 a year?  I would benefit more if women were forced to use birth control.  Why are you forcing a responsible person to subsidize an irresponsible one.  Birth control is cheap as shit and what makes you think that forcing me to pay for birth control will do jack shit for the deluge of babies born to single, destitute whores?  How the fuck does buying a bum a house decrease the number of bums?  If you subsidize a thing you get more of it.  It would save the taxpayers a lot more money to just stop doing that.  You can make an argument on humanitarian grounds but you cannot make one on monetary grounds.  Moynihan knew that.
Quote:


Enlil, thank u for clarifying for me. Apparently zappa doesn't know the difference between profit revenue and minimizing waste. :lol:




Fascists are in the minimizing waste business.  I think your waste is your own business.  Maybe if more people were held accountable for their stupidity there would be less stupidity.


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16044088 - 04/04/12 06:43 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:


Exactly. And I know exactly which study you're talking about; point being, society IMPROVES in the long run when you give economically underprivileged women access to birth control and abortions, and letting women take control of their reproductive rights. Obviously people who are bitching and whining about being too stingy to pay for birth control are not thinking about the long-run and the bigger picture.




Actually you're the one whining that you are too stingy to pay for birth control.  And if you want to keep going down the society benefits route then it is quite clear that society would benefit from forced sterilization.  You really need to drop that argument, Komrade.


--------------------


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16044182 - 04/04/12 07:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Condoms are a dollar a piece when you can't find some organization giving them away for free and the pill can be bought for $9 a month
http://radioviceonline.com/cost-for-birth-control-pills-near-georgetown-9-at-target/
You can put your facts back in the ass you pulled them from




In other words, you're saying people should use a type of birth control that is not nearly as effective, controlling their lives and telling them how to live, because YOU personally don't like it.

This still does absolutely nothing to help cover women who need birth control for MEDICAL reasons.

Also, ONLY CERTAIN BRANDS ARE CHEAP. All brands of pills have different levels of progesterone, oestrogen, estradiol, spironolactone, and other hormones. NOT ALL WOMEN CAN TAKE CHEAP BRANDS, because they react DIFFERENTLY to certain types of birth control with variable hormone levels.

Quote:

Well OK then Komrade.  I vehemently disagree.  Especially in regard to you substituting the state for voluntary charity.  Coercion is coercion and it fosters only resentment.  I may willingly help a bum on the street and feel good about it but if the money is pried out of my hands and some asshole bureaucrat decides which bums are worthy I will feel only resentment.  I'm willing to help the bums I choose, not the bums you choose.  You can help the bums you choose.  With your money.  I would also posit that the reason there is much less murder and strife in Sweden and Japan is because they are monocultural.




What a profoundly moronic statement, considering charity doesn't bring in nearly as much revenue as taxes do. Yea, why don't we also not pay for public education, police stations, public parks, fire departments... These things are also technically "Socialist," I don't hear you bitching about them.

Quote:

You weren't making an argument about the Constitutionality of a law since you never mentioned it.  You just made an argument about cost.  I can just as well argue that, and it looks like it is going to win, that forcing people to purchase a product is unconstitutional.  Buy your own whore pills.  Don't force me to buy them for you.  Regardless, you went down the slippery slope of societal cost.  I find it monstrous.




NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO BUY JACK SHIT. Lawmakers are only going to make it so insurance companies cover birth control.

I was merely pointing out why your comparison of forced sterilization to insurance-covered birth control is not analogous, and based on faulty logic.

Insurance companies can also drop patients who are costing too much money and discriminate them and prohibit them from obtaining insurance for "preconditions," causing the state a fuckload of money to cover expenses for those who have diseases like cancer. Do you think that should be legal too? Yea, what a noble "right." :rolleyes:


Quote:

How does a homeless person not housed by the state cost the state $40,000 a year?




Think hard about this. If we housed the homeless, they would be living together in the same headquarters; it wouldn't be homeless people living in their own apartments. It would be a large building, with 3 or 4 homeless people living in the same room. Considering a room costs approximately $300 to $500 a month depending on location, this ends up costing roughly $100 or less per homeless person living in the unit. Housing is fucking cheap when it's subsidized housing.

Homeless people often fake injuries or deliberately commit crimes so that they can get a bed to sleep in in jail or at the hospital. This inevitably costs YOU money, that averages out to $40,000 a year per homeless person. Thus, housing the homeless saves the taxpayer money.

Please explain exactly how creating homeless shelters increases homelessness. Homelessness has to do with high priced housing rates and unemployment; it has absolutely nothing to do with the numbers of shelters.

Quote:

Fascists are in the minimizing waste business.  I think your waste is your own business.  Maybe if more people were held accountable for their stupidity there would be less stupidity.




Fascists seek to dictate and control political and religious beliefs; it has absolutely nothing to do with "minimizing waste." Do you even know the difference between fascism and communism? Also communist countries in the past such as China and Soviet Union actually wasted significantly, as seen in the pollution spillover effect. But there has never been a truly socialist country in this world. Remnants of socialism improve the quality of living in social-democratic countries such as Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and France.

Also I disagree that homogeneity reduces crime. If immigrants cause crime, it's because they are of low socioeconomic status. Which only proves exactly what I was saying, and is a reason to incite higher quality of living standards for everybody (which saves the taxpayer money in the long run, as crime is directly related to socioeconomic status and education level). This is why the city of Irvine, which is filled with wealthy Japanese and Chinese immigrants has almost no crime and approximately 1 murder a year, whereas poverty-stricken cities such as Koreatown or Little Saigon are rampant with violent crime and gangs.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Actually you're the one whining that you are too stingy to pay for birth control.  And if you want to keep going down the society benefits route then it is quite clear that society would benefit from forced sterilization.  You really need to drop that argument, Komrade.




Are you reading carefully or selectively reading again? I DON'T USE BIRTH CONTROL. I HATE the effects of birth control. This doesn't mean I am too stingy to pay for other women's birth control, especially since many women who are poor don't have access to Planned Parenthoods, since they can be up to 8 hours away.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16044192 - 04/04/12 07:10 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Seems like he's just saying he doesn't want to pay for your birth control

Neither do I.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #16044231 - 04/04/12 07:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Seems like he's just saying he doesn't want to pay for your birth control

Neither do I.




Quote:

NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO BUY JACK SHIT. Lawmakers are only going to make it so insurance companies (NOT taxes) cover birth control.




Never mind the fact that you as a taxpayer, will save a fuckload of money in the long run by providing birth control to women. Children cost the state a hell of a lot more money than birth control does. People who are crying "wah wah I'm too stingy to pay for other people's birth control" clearly aren't thinking about the bigger picture and the long run.

Also, in that case, shouldn't you be AGAINST Planned Parenthood?


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16044241 - 04/04/12 07:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, never mind that. I don't want to pay for your birth control. I don't want to pay for your health care. I don't want to pay for your kids.

You are not my problem.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16044252 - 04/04/12 07:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO BUY JACK SHIT. Lawmakers are only going to make it so insurance companies cover birth control.


Where do you think the money comes from to pay for these benefits.  From the increase to my and everyones rates that's where.

And paying for fire and police protections benefits everyone. I don't want to pay to educate someone else's brats when I don't think they should even have them so I'll agree with you on that and I think Zappa would too.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #16044256 - 04/04/12 07:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Libertarians are some of the dumbest fucks to have ever walked the existence of this earth. Their rudimentary concepts of economics and sociology are exemplified by the sheer profound idiocy of the shit they spew.

Go worship Ron Paul or something.



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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16044264 - 04/04/12 07:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)


Never mind the fact that you as a taxpayer, will save a fuckload of money in the long run by providing birth control to women. Children cost the state a hell of a lot more money than birth control does. People who are crying "wah wah I'm too stingy to pay for other people's birth control" clearly aren't thinking about the bigger picture and the long run.


Why am I responsible for other peoples children? I don't agree with them having them and I don't expect anyone to pay for my choices. Yet in the name of what am I expected to pay? Fairness? Justice? Hardly.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16044266 - 04/04/12 07:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Actually, I'm not a libertarian. I am not a member of any party and am registered as "undeclared".

Again with the attempted insults.

A one-trick pony.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16044273 - 04/04/12 07:32 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Libertarians are some of the dumbest fucks to have ever walked the existence of this earth. Their rudimentary concepts of economics and sociology are exemplified by the sheer profound idiocy of the shit they spew.

Go worship Ron Paul or something.







Why because they won't pay for your mistakes and indulgences?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #16044295 - 04/04/12 07:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Why because they won't pay for your mistakes and indulgences?




Because they don't actually THINK about the long-term repercussions of the inanely fucking stupid laws they purport.

Yea, let's stop funding for public education so that even less people have access to it, THAT won't contribute to crime, illiteracy, and jackass dumbfuckery at all!

I love how you people think that simply because SOME types of regulations are ineffective, the answer MUST BE to get rid of ALL regulation, instead of modifying or changing existing regulation.

So please, satiate my curiosities here... exactly what free-market economists HAVE you read? Because I'm sure I could write a counter argument for the works of every single free-marketer you've ever read.

You probably formulated your beliefs based on Ron Paul's Wikipedia page.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16044312 - 04/04/12 07:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

It's those who have kids that are not thinking of the long term repercussions.

I think of them often.

The long term repercussion of the insane spending is a country that's broke.

The long term repercussion of coddling irresponsible brood-sows is that they spawn another generation of irresponsible buffoons.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #16044339 - 04/04/12 07:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
The long term repercussion of the insane spending is a country that's broke.




And the libertarian answer to that, is apparently to completely annihilate taxation.

Libertarians = the Forrest Gump of the political realm

Your notion of people who use social services as being "irresponsible" is a distorted perception of reality. It perpetuates the myth of the welfare queen, who holds no job but continuously pops out babies, all to sustain her extravagant lifestyle through the collection of welfare checks. According to these conservatives, they secretly live like kings, supporting their drug habits by selling food stamps for profit, secretly sipping champagne and eating lobster behind closed doors. It falls back on the recycled, tired old myths about welfare recipients—that everybody who uses social services is all on drugs, inept, and lazy, that they lack incentives to better ourselves, and have earned rewards based on entitlement rather than criteria eligibility.

This is why some states have proposed mandated drug testing on all welfare recipients, even though Florida has essentially proven that statewide drug testing costs more than it saves. The image of the drug-addled welfare king is a myth that pertains to the minority. It is a direct, full-frontal assault and attempt to criminalize the economically disadvantaged. It's the same reason that people think all drug users are irresponsible welfare rats. It's a myth that's based on BULLSHIT, that's what.

Welfare isn't even permanent, programs such as TANF are temporary. And you know who changed it to temporary status? CLINTON.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16044346 - 04/04/12 07:46 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
And the libertarian answer to that, is apparently to completely annihilate taxation.





No its not.  That is just the extreme end.  Its easy to demonize them if you only consider them in the extreme.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16044371 - 04/04/12 07:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
The long term repercussion of the insane spending is a country that's broke.




And the libertarian answer to that, is apparently to completely annihilate taxation.

Libertarians = the Forrest Gump of the political realm




I'm not a libertarian.


Quote:

Your notion of people who use social services as being "irresponsible" is a distorted perception of reality. It perpetuates the myth of the welfare queen, who holds no job but continuously pops out babies, all to sustain her extravagant lifestyle through the collection of welfare checks. According to these conservatives, they secretly live like kings, supporting their drug habits by selling food stamps for profit, secretly sipping champagne and eating lobster behind closed doors. It falls back on the recycled, tired old myths about welfare recipients—that everybody who uses social services is all on drugs, inept, and lazy, that they lack incentives to better ourselves, and have earned rewards based on entitlement rather than criteria eligibility.




Apparently, some did. I assume you're aware that both the Senate and Assembly in California have a Democratic majority?


Quote:

This is why some states have proposed mandated drug testing on all welfare recipients, even though Florida has essentially proven that statewide drug testing costs more than it saves. The image of the drug-addled welfare king is a myth that pertains to the minority. It is a direct, full-frontal assault and attempt to criminalize the economically disadvantaged. It's the same reason that people think all drug users are irresponsible welfare rats. It's a myth that's based on BULLSHIT, that's what.




I don't have an issue with keeping welfare recipients from buying drugs on my dime.


Quote:

Welfare isn't even permanent, programs such as TANF are temporary. And you know who changed it to temporary status? CLINTON.




Yup. He got one right.

Ronald Reagan signed the EIC into law. He got one wrong.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (04/04/12 10:10 PM)


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16044376 - 04/04/12 07:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Why because they won't pay for your mistakes and indulgences?




Because they don't actually THINK about the long-term repercussions of the inanely fucking stupid laws they purport.

Yea, let's stop funding for public education so that even less people have access to it, THAT won't contribute to crime, illiteracy, and jackass dumbfuckery at all!

I love how you people think that simply because SOME types of regulations are ineffective, the answer MUST BE to get rid of ALL regulation, instead of modifying or changing existing regulation.

So please, satiate my curiosities here... exactly what free-market economists HAVE you read? Because I'm sure I could write a counter argument for the works of every single free-marketer you've ever read.

You probably formulated your beliefs based on Ron Paul's Wikipedia page.




:lol:  Get worked up much?  Yes I don't want to fund public education unless I have children of my own. I don't think most humans are qualified to have children  in the first place and I think the type of education we provide sucks ass anyway and I don't agree with it.  So if you play you pay.  And I never said anything about getting rid of all regulation and don't support any politician including Paul but if I had to choose between him and that criminal Obama or any other Republican douche I might.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #16044395 - 04/04/12 08:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I don't have an issue with keeping welfare recipients from buying drugs on my dime.




Except of course, that it costs a LOT more to drug test all welfare recipients. Do you realize you're actually PAYING MORE by doing that? Aren't you supposed to be about "minimizing waste?" You should at least be consistent you know.

Icelander said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Why because they won't pay for your mistakes and indulgences?




Because they don't actually THINK about the long-term repercussions of the inanely fucking stupid laws they purport.

Yea, let's stop funding for public education so that even less people have access to it, THAT won't contribute to crime, illiteracy, and jackass dumbfuckery at all!

I love how you people think that simply because SOME types of regulations are ineffective, the answer MUST BE to get rid of ALL regulation, instead of modifying or changing existing regulation.

So please, satiate my curiosities here... exactly what free-market economists HAVE you read? Because I'm sure I could write a counter argument for the works of every single free-marketer you've ever read.

You probably formulated your beliefs based on Ron Paul's Wikipedia page.




Quote:

I don't think most humans are qualified to have children  in the first place and I think the type of education we provide sucks ass anyway and I don't agree with it.  So if you play you pay.  And I never said anything about getting rid of all regulation and don't support any politician including Paul but if I had to choose between him and that criminal Obama or any other Republican douche I might.




If public schools were actually on a "pay to play" system, it would cost just as much as private schools do (between $5,000 to $20,000 per student PER YEAR depending on how many students attended the schools). How in the hell is that rational? How many families can fucking afford to send their kids to school for that much? Great solution; you just increased illiteracy rates by 10-fold.

You still never answered which economists you read.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16044406 - 04/04/12 08:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I don't have an issue with keeping welfare recipients from buying drugs on my dime.




Except of course, that it costs a LOT more to drug test all welfare recipients. Do you realize you're actually PAYING MORE by doing that? Aren't you supposed to be about "minimizing waste?" You should at least be consistent you know.




You can show where I advocated drug testing all welfare recipients?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (04/04/12 10:12 PM)


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #16044425 - 04/04/12 08:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Luvdemush, it was implied in ur statement about not having an issue with preventing welfare applicants from buying drugs with that money. How the hell would u go about decreasing welfare dependent drug users without drug testing everybody to find out who was on drugs? Ur making no sense.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16044444 - 04/04/12 08:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Random testing, which as I'm sure you know... is not everybody.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #16044464 - 04/04/12 08:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

That's exactly what florida has been doing. Random testing where everybody eventually gets tested, since its not effective at all if u only test a handful of people.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16044466 - 04/04/12 08:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

If public schools were actually on a "pay to play" system, it would cost just as much as private schools do (between $5,000 to $20,000 per student PER YEAR depending on how many students attended the schools). How in the hell is that rational? How many families can fucking afford to send their kids to school for that much? Great solution; you just increased illiteracy rates by 10-fold.


If you can't afford children then why are you having them. Is that so fucking hard to comprehend? 

It's not my problem that having children is expensive unless people like you make it my problem.  Were we to demand responsibility then maybe there wouldn't be so many humans around mucking shit up.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16044480 - 04/04/12 08:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
That's exactly what florida has been doing. Random testing where everybody eventually gets tested, since its not effective at all if u only test a handful of people.




It's better than nothing.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #16044483 - 04/04/12 08:16 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
If you can't afford children then why are you having them. Is that so fucking hard to comprehend? 

It's not my problem that having children is expensive unless people like you make it my problem.  Were we to demand responsibility then maybe there wouldn't be so many humans around mucking shit up.




Exactly.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16044553 - 04/04/12 08:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Condoms are a dollar a piece when you can't find some organization giving them away for free and the pill can be bought for $9 a month
http://radioviceonline.com/cost-for-birth-control-pills-near-georgetown-9-at-target/
You can put your facts back in the ass you pulled them from




In other words, you're saying people should use a type of birth control that is not nearly as effective, controlling their lives and telling them how to live, because YOU personally don't like it.




I don't give two shits what kind of birth control anybody uses.  I don't want to make that choice for you at all.  Why do you insist that I have to pay for your choice?
Quote:



This still does absolutely nothing to help cover women who need birth control for MEDICAL reasons.

Also, ONLY CERTAIN BRANDS ARE CHEAP. All brands of pills have different levels of progesterone, oestrogen, estradiol, spironolactone, and other hormones. NOT ALL WOMEN CAN TAKE CHEAP BRANDS, because they react DIFFERENTLY to certain types of birth control with variable hormone levels.




I don't give two shits what kind of birth control anybody uses.  I don't want to make that choice for you at all.  Why do you insist that I have to pay for your choice?  If there is a medical reason other than birth control to prescribe hormone therapy that's one thing.  Just because you want to fuck is not a medical reason.  It is a lifestyle reason.  And you made a blanket statement about how much birth control costs, which was a lie.
Quote:



Quote:

Well OK then Komrade.  I vehemently disagree.  Especially in regard to you substituting the state for voluntary charity.  Coercion is coercion and it fosters only resentment.  I may willingly help a bum on the street and feel good about it but if the money is pried out of my hands and some asshole bureaucrat decides which bums are worthy I will feel only resentment.  I'm willing to help the bums I choose, not the bums you choose.  You can help the bums you choose.  With your money.  I would also posit that the reason there is much less murder and strife in Sweden and Japan is because they are monocultural.




What a profoundly moronic statement, considering charity doesn't bring in nearly as much revenue as taxes do. Yea, why don't we also not pay for public education, police stations, public parks, fire departments... These things are also technically "Socialist," I don't hear you bitching about them.




They are NOT technically socialist. 
Quote:



Quote:

You weren't making an argument about the Constitutionality of a law since you never mentioned it.  You just made an argument about cost.  I can just as well argue that, and it looks like it is going to win, that forcing people to purchase a product is unconstitutional.  Buy your own whore pills.  Don't force me to buy them for you.  Regardless, you went down the slippery slope of societal cost.  I find it monstrous.




NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO BUY JACK SHIT. Lawmakers are only going to make it so insurance companies cover birth control.




So if i want to have any health insurance at all I have to have health insurance that covers a whole shitload of things I don't want and that costs way more than what I do want just because you want something?  Buy your own whore pills.
Quote:



I was merely pointing out why your comparison of forced sterilization to insurance-covered birth control is not analogous, and based on faulty logic.




No, the logic is perfect.  You used societal cost as a justification.  I extended it logically.  If societal cost is a justification for one thing it is a justification for all things. 
Quote:



Insurance companies can also drop patients who are costing too much money and discriminate them and prohibit them from obtaining insurance for "preconditions," causing the state a fuckload of money to cover expenses for those who have diseases like cancer. Do you think that should be legal too? Yea, what a noble "right." :rolleyes:


  Insurance companies cannot drop people who pay their insurance bill.  Requiring them to pick up coverage for pre-existing conditions isn't insurance.  That's like getting collision only after you have had an accident.  Further, and here's a fucking novel concept, you can just fucking pay for your medical costs out of pocket.  What a fucking revolutionary concept.  Somebody paying for a service.
Quote:




Quote:

How does a homeless person not housed by the state cost the state $40,000 a year?




Think hard about this. If we housed the homeless, they would be living together in the same headquarters; it wouldn't be homeless people living in their own apartments. It would be a large building, with 3 or 4 homeless people living in the same room. Considering a room costs approximately $300 to $500 a month depending on location, this ends up costing roughly $100 or less per homeless person living in the unit. Housing is fucking cheap when it's subsidized housing.

Homeless people often fake injuries or deliberately commit crimes so that they can get a bed to sleep in in jail or at the hospital. This inevitably costs YOU money, that averages out to $40,000 a year per homeless person. Thus, housing the homeless saves the taxpayer money.




What gloriously unsubstantiated bit of speculation.  Would you please link us to the ass from which those facts were extracted?  Do you know what would save the taxpayer more money?  Shooting the homeless.  You better leave that slope behind.
Quote:



Please explain exactly how creating homeless shelters increases homelessness. Homelessness has to do with high priced housing rates and unemployment; it has absolutely nothing to do with the numbers of shelters.




Bullshit.  If the price of housing in your area is to high MOVE!  If you subsidize a thing you get more of it.  Econ 101.
Quote:



Quote:

Fascists are in the minimizing waste business.  I think your waste is your own business.  Maybe if more people were held accountable for their stupidity there would be less stupidity.




Fascists seek to dictate and control political and religious beliefs; it has absolutely nothing to do with "minimizing waste." Do you even know the difference between fascism and communism? Also communist countries in the past such as China and Soviet Union actually wasted significantly, as seen in the pollution spillover effect. But there has never been a truly socialist country in this world. Remnants of socialism improve the quality of living in social-democratic countries such as Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and France.




Yes, fascism makes the trains run on time.  Pollution does not equal waste.  One could argue that worrying about pollution is wasteful.
Quote:



Also I disagree that homogeneity reduces crime. If immigrants cause crime, it's because they are of low socioeconomic status. Which only proves exactly what I was saying, and is a reason to incite higher quality of living standards for everybody (which saves the taxpayer money in the long run, as crime is directly related to socioeconomic status and education level). This is why the city of Irvine, which is filled with wealthy Japanese and Chinese immigrants has almost no crime and approximately 1 murder a year, whereas poverty-stricken cities such as Koreatown or Little Saigon are rampant with violent crime and gangs.




I don't think you understand the difference between correlation and causality.  Nor did I say that immigration causes strife.  You can have assmilated immigrants and you can have unassimilated immigrants.  You can also have unassimilated natives.  I simply said that your examples are npot applicable.  For a whole shitload more reasons than these.
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Actually you're the one whining that you are too stingy to pay for birth control.  And if you want to keep going down the society benefits route then it is quite clear that society would benefit from forced sterilization.  You really need to drop that argument, Komrade.




Are you reading carefully or selectively reading again? I DON'T USE BIRTH CONTROL. I HATE the effects of birth control. This doesn't mean I am too stingy to pay for other women's birth control, especially since many women who are poor don't have access to Planned Parenthoods, since they can be up to 8 hours away.




WOW!  There is some woman in Central Idaho who would have to drive 8 hours to find a charity clinic.  Maybe the government should just install one clinic every 100 miles.  Or, better yet, if it's that fucking important to you, MOVE.

The sense of entitlement is so thick it oozes out your pores.  Not only do you think you should be entitled to get something for yourself but you think I should have to give something of mine as well.  Me not buying you something does not constitute me forbidding it.  But you forcing me to buy something constitutes you forbidding me from spending that money where I see fit.


--------------------


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Offline4896744
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16044862 - 04/04/12 09:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I think providing free and easy access to birth control and abortions might be worth the cost. Some of you obviously disagree with that. It's all just people wanting things to be better suited for themselves. :shrug:


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: 4896744]
    #16044887 - 04/04/12 09:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Then you pay for it out of your pocket. I have no objections to that.

If we want to let irresponsible humans spawn at will then yes it might be cost effective to do that. It would be more cost effective however to force sterilization on them. But of course you only want to force me to do something not them.  I don't want to force either of us but I do want each of us to experience and be responsible for the actions we take.  I personally don't want to encourage a world were people thoughtlessly create offspring knowing someone is going to support their actions if they are not up to the responsibility.  But maybe that world is an illusion and we have to let everyone get away with their worst.


Edited by Icelander (04/04/12 09:42 PM)


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #16044906 - 04/04/12 09:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I don't care enough to do that, but as far as government spending goes, this is one area that I would have very little objection to.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: 4896744]
    #16044928 - 04/04/12 09:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Where do you think the govt. gets it's money?  If the govt. limited it's scope of operations they would not need as much of your money.  I'm guessing you've never paid taxes and felt you were getting screwed for it.


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #16044964 - 04/04/12 09:50 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I understand that, and in an ideal world I would pay next to nothing in taxes as most government spending is useless to me. I'm just saying that as far as government spending goes, this is something I wouldn't have much objection to. It would reduce the amount of stupid people stuck in the rut of poverty who don't do anything beyond leeching off of others.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: 4896744]
    #16045027 - 04/04/12 10:05 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah I get that.  But since we are debating rather than correcting anything I'm going to go for my vision of a cool world.


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16045924 - 04/05/12 01:43 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
It's better than nothing.




No, it's not, because you'd end up wasting more money then you'd save.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They are NOT technically socialist.




Do you not understand the meaning of "socialist?"

Tell me something: Why do GOP pigs like you insist state-paid medical care is "socialist," yet state paid education, police, fire departments, streets, and parks are not considered "socialist?"

Or, do guys like you simply "cry socialism" whenever it's convenient?

Quote:

So if i want to have any health insurance at all I have to have health insurance that covers a whole shitload of things I don't want and that costs way more than what I do want just because you want something?  Buy your own whore pills.




I highly doubt it would barely change your premiums. Consider the fact that medical insurance has risen approximately 500 percent within the past 2 decades. You really think any of that is because of what they cover? Or is it just to make the insurance companies rich? If you're REALLY interested in keeping low premiums rate, you would be willing to put a price maximum on the amount insurance companies can charge. Because the amount they are making is far, FARRRRRRRR more than what people put into it.

Reminds me of this one joke (which I am going to modify to apply to this set of circumstances).

An average American guy, a woman, and a CEO of the health insurance company are all sitting at a table, in front of a place of a dozen cookies. The insurance company CEO grabs all 11 cookies, then turns to the American guy and says, "You better watch out, looks like that woman wants your cookie." And you guys actually FALL for it.

Quote:


Insurance companies cannot drop people who pay their insurance bill.  Requiring them to pick up coverage for pre-existing conditions isn't insurance.  That's like getting collision only after you have had an accident.  Further, and here's a fucking novel concept, you can just fucking pay for your medical costs out of pocket.  What a fucking revolutionary concept.  Somebody paying for a service.




THEY DO DROP PEOPLE ALL THE TIME.

Here is an example where the health insurance company dropped somebody for underpaying by 2 cents, because they wanted to get rid of him because he had cancer: http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/01/26/140965/insurance-company-veteran-cents/

Here's another one where they dropped AIDS patients who were costing the company too much money: http://www.oliverwillis.com/2010/03/17/insurance-company-targeted-hiv-positive-patients-to-drop-their-coverage/

Do you not fucking understand how fucking expensive medical care is in the US? My last hospital visit, which was 10 days, cost $90,000 fucking dollars! If I wasn't insured, I'd have been SCREWED and in debt for the rest of my fucking life! Fuck I paid less for college.

Quote:

What gloriously unsubstantiated bit of speculation.  Would you please link us to the ass from which those facts were extracted?  Do you know what would save the taxpayer more money?  Shooting the homeless.  You better leave that slope behind.




What a noble cause :rolleyes: What you just suggested is the exact same thing Hitler did to get rid of the handicapped, the gays, and the homeless.


Oh, and here's some links to prove that the homeless population costs $40,000 a year. These are stats from the HUD secretary & the US Dept of Housing. Google is your friend: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/mar/12/shaun-donovan/hud-secretary-says-homeless-person-costs-taxpayers/

Quote:

Bullshit.  If the price of housing in your area is to high MOVE!  If you subsidize a thing you get more of it.  Econ 101.




I highly fucking doubt you have ever taken an economics course. If you had, you would have also known that decreasing the homeless population keep the value of housing rates. And you would have learned the high price of housing has to do with inflation and the housing bubble, not your ridiculous attempt at making a faux-smart comment by saying "just move. Durr hurr."

Quote:

Yes, fascism makes the trains run on time.  Pollution does not equal waste.  One could argue that worrying about pollution is wasteful.




You claim to have taken an economics course, yet you don't know the meaning of a spillover.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
WOW!  There is some woman in Central Idaho who would have to drive 8 hours to find a charity clinic.  Maybe the government should just install one clinic every 100 miles.  Or, better yet, if it's that fucking important to you, MOVE.




Right, what a stupid suggestion. Because people choose where they live and where they go to school and where they get jobs based on how easily they can get birth control. :rolleyes:

Quote:

The sense of entitlement is so thick it oozes out your pores.  Not only do you think you should be entitled to get something for yourself but you think I should have to give something of mine as well.  Me not buying you something does not constitute me forbidding it.  But you forcing me to buy something constitutes you forbidding me from spending that money where I see fit.




How the fuck am I "entitled" if I have never ever collected government benefits aside from student aid (which nearly every student does)? Just because I'm not collecting government benefits however, doesn't mean I don't care about other people. Just because I'm not gay doesn't mean I can't fight for gay rights. If anything, I have a sense of philanthropy, whereas YOU have the sense of entitlement.

You believe that you inherently deserve what other people don't, simply because you have access to money, and they don't. The idea that a person doesn't deserve the right to health simply because they don't have tens or hundreds of thousand dollars stored away is based on YOUR sense of superiority and entitlement (and I highly doubt YOU would have that kind of money, if you were to fall ill and your insurance company were to drop you). THE INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE NOT ON YOUR FUCKING SIDE.

I don't know why blue-collar middle-class guys like you spew this shit; do you really honestly think if you keep believing this shit you're going to be rich one day or something? Do you want so badly to be "one of them?" Is that it?

FUCK I am getting really hateful of humanity.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16046619 - 04/05/12 08:44 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Why do GOP pigs like you

You're flaming dear. :nono: It's a sign of low self esteem, creativity and self control.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (04/05/12 10:52 AM)


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #16046984 - 04/05/12 11:42 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

man, these threads get down right evil. I feel like it's retarded of me to argue in these thread topics anymore. Is this birth control crap 90% of the deficit budget that people need to try and tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body? $10 a month who can't afford that?

Thank god this wasn't an abortion thread. I've heard so much nonsense about how 'China does it right' in terms of controlling overpopulation(and yet they are the most overpopulated country in the world!) Then people argue "abortion should be illegal" and "abortion should be mandatory like in China"

Now I don't have a good decision on whether abortion should be available or not. But does anyone think mandatory abortion whether people want it or not is similar to mandatory Jew gassing whether they want it or not? Damn politics make me sick... how many people in this thread have kids?


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: imachavel]
    #16046999 - 04/05/12 11:48 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Nice of you to bring abortion into this especially when you are all worked up about peoples extreme views. :lol:

You're just chomping at the bit to mix it up here. :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #16047128 - 04/05/12 12:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

how much worst could the thread get? If this thread gets any worst, peoples views are going to change to:

"if a women can't pay for her birth control, she should be executed!"

:lol: this thread is pretty Hitlerish


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: imachavel]
    #16047691 - 04/05/12 02:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I think execution is a little harsh.  I'm thinking work farms.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #16047705 - 04/05/12 02:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I think execution is a little harsh.  I'm thinking work farms.



If we're honest, no woman has to pay for birth control...If she's hot enough to get laid...she's hot enough to get someone to pay for it in exchange for getting laid...


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Enlil]
    #16047931 - 04/05/12 03:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I think execution is a little harsh.  I'm thinking work farms.



If we're honest, no woman has to pay for birth control...If she's hot enough to get laid...she's hot enough to get someone to pay for it in exchange for getting laid...




dude like no fucking kidding. How can a job require someone be tested for birth control? That was the original topic, not population control. How did this subject get so off topic? The fact is that no woman takes birth control to get high, and it's a woman's right if she wants to be married. This crap is practically unconstitutional. practically


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16048797 - 04/05/12 06:16 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They are NOT technically socialist.




Do you not understand the meaning of "socialist?"

Tell me something: Why do GOP pigs like you insist state-paid medical care is "socialist," yet state paid education, police, fire departments, streets, and parks are not considered "socialist?"

Or, do guys like you simply "cry socialism" whenever it's convenient?




The nonsense never ends.  BY your rationale if the state pays for anything it isn't socialist to pay for everything.  Which is, of course, incredibly stupid.  There are legitimate functions of government, like security, that are common to all governments.  As far as public education goes they have clearly botched it and I don't think the federal government should have anything to do with it at all.
Quote:



Quote:

So if i want to have any health insurance at all I have to have health insurance that covers a whole shitload of things I don't want and that costs way more than what I do want just because you want something?  Buy your own whore pills.




I highly doubt it would barely change your premiums. Consider the fact that medical insurance has risen approximately 500 percent within the past 2 decades. You really think any of that is because of what they cover? Or is it just to make the insurance companies rich? If you're REALLY interested in keeping low premiums rate, you would be willing to put a price maximum on the amount insurance companies can charge. Because the amount they are making is far, FARRRRRRRR more than what people put into it.




My premiums would be less than half.  The profit margin for health insurance companies is around 5%.  In other words, peanuts.
Quote:



Reminds me of this one joke (which I am going to modify to apply to this set of circumstances).

An average American guy, a woman, and a CEO of the health insurance company are all sitting at a table, in front of a place of a dozen cookies. The insurance company CEO grabs all 11 cookies, then turns to the American guy and says, "You better watch out, looks like that woman wants your cookie." And you guys actually FALL for it.




If you think they're getting so rich why don't you buy stock in health insurance companies?  As far as I know they are pretty much all publicly traded.  Be a mogul, you're such an astute analyst.
Quote:



Quote:


Insurance companies cannot drop people who pay their insurance bill.  Requiring them to pick up coverage for pre-existing conditions isn't insurance.  That's like getting collision only after you have had an accident.  Further, and here's a fucking novel concept, you can just fucking pay for your medical costs out of pocket.  What a fucking revolutionary concept.  Somebody paying for a service.




THEY DO DROP PEOPLE ALL THE TIME.




Not if you pay your bill.  You didn't address the point that requiring them to pick up coverage of people who are already sick is absurd.
Quote:



Here is an example where the health insurance company dropped somebody for underpaying by 2 cents, because they wanted to get rid of him because he had cancer: http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/01/26/140965/insurance-company-veteran-cents/




Gee, he didn't pay his fucking bill, did he? 
Quote:



Here's another one where they dropped AIDS patients who were costing the company too much money: http://www.oliverwillis.com/2010/03/17/insurance-company-targeted-hiv-positive-patients-to-drop-their-coverage/




Most insurance coverage has limits.  It's spelled out in the fucking contract when you sign it.
Quote:



Do you not fucking understand how fucking expensive medical care is in the US? My last hospital visit, which was 10 days, cost $90,000 fucking dollars! If I wasn't insured, I'd have been SCREWED and in debt for the rest of my fucking life! Fuck I paid less for college.




Tough shit.  How does that obligate me to pay?
Quote:



Quote:

What gloriously unsubstantiated bit of speculation.  Would you please link us to the ass from which those facts were extracted?  Do you know what would save the taxpayer more money?  Shooting the homeless.  You better leave that slope behind.




What a noble cause :rolleyes: What you just suggested is the exact same thing Hitler did to get rid of the handicapped, the gays, and the homeless.




I didn't make the suggestion.  You're the cost benefit bureaucrat here, not me.  I told you you should leave it alone.  But you seemingly can't.
Quote:




Oh, and here's some links to prove that the homeless population costs $40,000 a year. These are stats from the HUD secretary & the US Dept of Housing. Google is your friend: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/mar/12/shaun-donovan/hud-secretary-says-homeless-person-costs-taxpayers/




LOL at Politifact and Jon Stewart and Obama's socialist shill.  Let's look at one of the concluding paragraphs:

"He drew that figure from a 10-year-old study that wasn’t looking at the general homeless population but at people with severe mental illness -- a group that uses more services. The study also focused on New York City, an expensive place to live."

Do you know why that costs so much?  because liberal nitwits forced the closing of asylums all over the country.  Put the loons back in the bin and it will be a lot cheaper.
Quote:





Quote:

Bullshit.  If the price of housing in your area is to high MOVE!  If you subsidize a thing you get more of it.  Econ 101.




I highly fucking doubt you have ever taken an economics course. If you had, you would have also known that decreasing the homeless population keep the value of housing rates. And you would have learned the high price of housing has to do with inflation and the housing bubble, not your ridiculous attempt at making a faux-smart comment by saying "just move. Durr hurr."




Of course you are too wrapped up in your bullshit to know that housing prices have fallen precipitously in the last three years.  Do you live under a rock?
Quote:



Quote:

Yes, fascism makes the trains run on time.  Pollution does not equal waste.  One could argue that worrying about pollution is wasteful.




You claim to have taken an economics course, yet you don't know the meaning of a spillover.




Pollution does not equal waste.  Either make a case that it does or not.
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
WOW!  There is some woman in Central Idaho who would have to drive 8 hours to find a charity clinic.  Maybe the government should just install one clinic every 100 miles.  Or, better yet, if it's that fucking important to you, MOVE.




Right, what a stupid suggestion. Because people choose where they live and where they go to school and where they get jobs based on how easily they can get birth control. :rolleyes:




If it's so important to them they should.  It certainly doesn't obligage me to fund a Planned Parenthood outlet in Yellow Pine Idaho.  If you want the benefits of civilization don't live in the boonies
Quote:



Quote:

The sense of entitlement is so thick it oozes out your pores.  Not only do you think you should be entitled to get something for yourself but you think I should have to give something of mine as well.  Me not buying you something does not constitute me forbidding it.  But you forcing me to buy something constitutes you forbidding me from spending that money where I see fit.




How the fuck am I "entitled" if I have never ever collected government benefits aside from student aid (which nearly every student does)? Just because I'm not collecting government benefits however, doesn't mean I don't care about other people. Just because I'm not gay doesn't mean I can't fight for gay rights. If anything, I have a sense of philanthropy, whereas YOU have the sense of entitlement.


  You think you are entitled to have every insurance policy buyer have to pay for the coverage you want.  My sense of entitlement extends to thinking that I am entitled to keep what I earn and to purchase the products I want to buy without being compelled to pay for a bunch of shit I don't want just to spread the risk pool to give somebody the product they want for less money.
Quote:



You believe that you inherently deserve what other people don't, simply because you have access to money, and they don't. The idea that a person doesn't deserve the right to health simply because they don't have tens or hundreds of thousand dollars stored away is based on YOUR sense of superiority and entitlement (and I highly doubt YOU would have that kind of money, if you were to fall ill and your insurance company were to drop you). THE INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE NOT ON YOUR FUCKING SIDE.


  I don't expect them to be.  That isn't their job.  I expect them to honor their contracts.  If they don't I will sue them and win
Quote:



I don't know why blue-collar middle-class guys like you spew this shit; do you really honestly think if you keep believing this shit you're going to be rich one day or something? Do you want so badly to be "one of them?" Is that it?

FUCK I am getting really hateful of humanity.




I am not middle class blue collar.  We are well into the 1% and I am fucking sick of paying for more and more bullshit for everybody else.


--------------------


Edited by zappaisgod (04/05/12 06:23 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: imachavel]
    #16048837 - 04/05/12 06:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I think execution is a little harsh.  I'm thinking work farms.



If we're honest, no woman has to pay for birth control...If she's hot enough to get laid...she's hot enough to get someone to pay for it in exchange for getting laid...




dude like no fucking kidding. How can a job require someone be tested for birth control? That was the original topic, not population control. How did this subject get so off topic? The fact is that no woman takes birth control to get high, and it's a woman's right if she wants to be married. This crap is practically unconstitutional. practically




Huh?  You obviously didn't read the links

Quote:

A proposed new law in Arizona would give employers the power to request that women being prescribed birth control pills provide proof that they're using it for non-sexual reasons.





A legitimate medical reason (hormone therapy) and not a lifestyle reason (whore pills).  I have no problem buying a health plan that covers a medical necessity.  I have a great problem with paying for someone's lifestyle choice by government fiat.


--------------------


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16049381 - 04/05/12 08:32 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

how much do YOU have to pay for it? You don't mind paying 700 billion for a war that had more to do with oil then 9-11?(I'm sure we don't want to bring up Saddam again)

Now hormone control is a lifestyle choice? Dude, if a chick wants to go fuck, and not have a baby, more power to her, I meet 100 idiots a day, at the end of the year that equals 36,500 idiots, and there are millions more. Do we really really really really really really really really really need another one? She isn't married? Who gives a fuck. And yeah, she can pay for it.

Sorry to drop in on this, it's a pretty huge debate. And I'm not being sarcastic, sorry to drop in. Hate dealing with this stuff. This crap is PENNIES compared to the big picture. But it's nice to get it all out in the open anyway. This to me is like arguing that rich people aren't taxed more then poor people. Of course they are, who cares they can afford it. If they can't afford it anymore they won't be rich anymore and thus will be taxed less. Btw taxed? Fucking a, the governments had it's fun with our taxes. Fuck the government, fuck the republicans, fuck the democrats. The only reason I don't believe in god damn anarchy, is because eventually it will be too unstable, one side will gain control and call itself the government, no business will exist without marketing(impossible), and the only thing left will be the usual, communism or fascism, total dictatorial ism


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: imachavel]
    #16049407 - 04/05/12 08:37 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Look, it doesn't matter one wit if the rich are greedy bastards or stingy. It's their money.  I'm not rich like Zappa so I care even more that people who don't take responsibility for themselves demand that I do it for them.

As to your other comments I fully expect a dictatorship in America at some point. IMO that's the way we're heading but I'm not worried cause I'm old. :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (04/05/12 09:52 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: imachavel]
    #16049802 - 04/05/12 09:46 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
how much do YOU have to pay for it? You don't mind paying 700 billion for a war that had more to do with oil then 9-11?(I'm sure we don't want to bring up Saddam again)




What war are you referring to?  I am not aware of any war that had anything to do with oil (not that here would be anything wrong with that)
Quote:



Now hormone control is a lifestyle choice?


  If you had reading comprehension you would know that I didn't have a problem with medically necessary hormone therapy or that the law had an explicit exemption for it.
Quote:

Dude, if a chick wants to go fuck, and not have a baby, more power to her, I meet 100 idiots a day, at the end of the year that equals 36,500 idiots, and there are millions more. Do we really really really really really really really really really need another one? She isn't married? Who gives a fuck. And yeah, she can pay for it.

Sorry to drop in on this, it's a pretty huge debate. And I'm not being sarcastic, sorry to drop in. Hate dealing with this stuff. This crap is PENNIES compared to the big picture. But it's nice to get it all out in the open anyway. This to me is like arguing that rich people aren't taxed more then poor people. Of course they are, who cares they can afford it. If they can't afford it anymore they won't be rich anymore and thus will be taxed less. Btw taxed? Fucking a, the governments had it's fun with our taxes. Fuck the government, fuck the republicans, fuck the democrats. The only reason I don't believe in god damn anarchy, is because eventually it will be too unstable, one side will gain control and call itself the government, no business will exist without marketing(impossible), and the only thing left will be the usual, communism or fascism, total dictatorial ism





The government hasn't had its fun with your taxes.


--------------------


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16049920 - 04/05/12 10:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

when the whole nation/president/congress/mayor/governor is all republican, it'll be worst then DEMOCRAcy. It'll be worst then Obama, then Zappa and all the others will turn this country face flat into communism. The rich already own everything, why not start assigning people garbage.

We really have to go through this whole thing all over again zappa? :rolleyes: America NEVER got any benefit from oil from that 'war that didn't happen.' Back to birth control?


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: imachavel]
    #16049945 - 04/05/12 10:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:braindamage:  I don't think you have any idea how dangerous Obama is. Why? Cause you think he's a liberal and so mostly benign.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16049975 - 04/05/12 10:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:

Quote:



Do you not fucking understand how fucking expensive medical care is in the US? My last hospital visit, which was 10 days, cost $90,000 fucking dollars! If I wasn't insured, I'd have been SCREWED and in debt for the rest of my fucking life! Fuck I paid less for college.




Tough shit.  How does that obligate me to pay?

If it's so important to them they should.  It certainly doesn't obligage me to fund a Planned Parenthood outlet in Yellow Pine Idaho.  If you want the benefits of civilization don't live in the boonies




benefits of civilization don't live in the boonies? You think in Yellow Pine Idaho there aren't people who create planned parenthood? ridiculous! That is like me saying in Somalia Africa, women wouldn't benefit from birth control!


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #16049981 - 04/05/12 10:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
:braindamage:  I don't think you have any idea how dangerous Obama is. Why? Cause you think he's a liberal and so mostly benign.




are comparing Hitler and Stalin now? Did Hitler almost take over the world? Did Russia almost blow up the world?


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: imachavel]
    #16049990 - 04/05/12 10:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

If I had a clue what you're talking about I'd answer, really.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: imachavel]
    #16050008 - 04/05/12 10:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:

Quote:



Do you not fucking understand how fucking expensive medical care is in the US? My last hospital visit, which was 10 days, cost $90,000 fucking dollars! If I wasn't insured, I'd have been SCREWED and in debt for the rest of my fucking life! Fuck I paid less for college.




Tough shit.  How does that obligate me to pay?

If it's so important to them they should.  It certainly doesn't obligage me to fund a Planned Parenthood outlet in Yellow Pine Idaho.  If you want the benefits of civilization don't live in the boonies




benefits of civilization don't live in the boonies? You think in Yellow Pine Idaho there aren't people who create planned parenthood? ridiculous! That is like me saying in Somalia Africa, women wouldn't benefit from birth control!




Setting aside the fact that you are diverging from the point you really need to know more about Yellow Pine than you do now. 

So buy Somalian women birth control if you think it's good for them.  Maybe if you think it's good enough for them you'll make them take it.


--------------------


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #16050056 - 04/05/12 10:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

where do you get the idea I don't consider Obama dangerous? Because I pointed out what a horrible person Bush was? I feel like a crying mother protesting columbine at an N.R.A. meeting. Everyone assumes I'm going through menopause.

If the presidency over the last 3 terms has been made up of Bush and Obama and a bunch of other congress controlled ass tards in Zappas sig, what do we have? One party will win and fix the mess? Give me a break. We are getting off the course of birth control here, and I was saying lets compare Hitler and Stalin when speaking of who controls the office, and who has better morals

Here is something to add to the debate, both of those assholes killed women, pregnant women, lot's of them. Less tyranny if birth control had been better implemented and the women weren't pregnant? Hey Zappa, please quote me, many many times I'd appreciate it. I do notice my posts get straight to the idea behind it all, with no coherent evidence. I wish I was more formulated like crystal g, I don't know if he an ass in real life or what, but he is pointing out some pretty interesting shit. Planned parenthood vs $23 pills at the pharmacy? Should tax payers pay?

Are some things not stipulated? It's like arguing with lobbyists, if you don't want something closed down, don't create such an extremely vague general way of implementing something. You want something, balance it, don't make it so one side will get so much much more then the other. But what the fuck does this have to do with women's employment? Who would use birth control for some unreasonable method? In fact, planned parent hood would be EXPENSIVE, and opposite of birth control. Why would a business care if someone uses birth control? Their idea of 'medical benefits' is taking some of your check and instead of taxing directly throwing it into your insurance plan then taxing it instead of letting you spend the money yourself.

So birth control would be the most of their worries? This is a freedom issue isn't it? And with politics the closest reason to shut down a freedom issue is by PROVING IT, therefore it comes to what people pay for. We pay for your freedom blah blah blah :rolleyes:
This thread makes me sick.


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16050103 - 04/05/12 10:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:

Quote:



Do you not fucking understand how fucking expensive medical care is in the US? My last hospital visit, which was 10 days, cost $90,000 fucking dollars! If I wasn't insured, I'd have been SCREWED and in debt for the rest of my fucking life! Fuck I paid less for college.




Tough shit.  How does that obligate me to pay?

If it's so important to them they should.  It certainly doesn't obligage me to fund a Planned Parenthood outlet in Yellow Pine Idaho.  If you want the benefits of civilization don't live in the boonies




benefits of civilization don't live in the boonies? You think in Yellow Pine Idaho there aren't people who create planned parenthood? ridiculous! That is like me saying in Somalia Africa, women wouldn't benefit from birth control!




Setting aside the fact that you are diverging from the point you really need to know more about Yellow Pine than you do now. 

So buy Somalian women birth control if you think it's good for them.  Maybe if you think it's good enough for them you'll make them take it.




I need a lobbyist Zappa, how about a republican one? favoring your side. Then I can get a few billion to go and help Somalian women take birth control, I mean really. I wouldn't waste tax payers money to go blow up a country over there, let one side win that would in total be as bad as the other side, leaving women raped, men with their arms chopped off, blood for diamonds etc.

Oh wait HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! That WAS a democratic decision, not a republican one(big difference :rolleyes:) Actually for once Zappa is right, Bush did more for Africa then any other president in history. I thought I'd mention something relevant though, like actually using foreign aid money for foreign aid, instead of squandering it. hard to imagine birth control for African women would be a way to waste foreign aid spending. Because sometimes Zapp is sarcastic? No not at all

hey what was that about yellow pine Idaho again? Something relevant? I have family in Idaho from Post Falls all the way down to Boise, Idaho, didn't really know there was anything special or relevant about yellow pines to this thread, or at all. They didn't even film that Napoleon Dynamite movie there. What is so great about Yellow pines?


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: imachavel]
    #16050147 - 04/05/12 11:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Google it


--------------------


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: imachavel]
    #16050152 - 04/05/12 11:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
where do you get the idea I don't consider Obama dangerous? Because I pointed out what a horrible person Bush was? I feel like a crying mother protesting columbine at an N.R.A. meeting. Everyone assumes I'm going through menopause.

If the presidency over the last 3 terms has been made up of Bush and Obama and a bunch of other congress controlled ass tards in Zappas sig, what do we have? One party will win and fix the mess? Give me a break. We are getting off the course of birth control here, and I was saying lets compare Hitler and Stalin when speaking of who controls the office, and who has better morals

Here is something to add to the debate, both of those assholes killed women, pregnant women, lot's of them. Less tyranny if birth control had been better implemented and the women weren't pregnant? Hey Zappa, please quote me, many many times I'd appreciate it. I do notice my posts get straight to the idea behind it all, with no coherent evidence. I wish I was more formulated like crystal g, I don't know if he an ass in real life or what, but he is pointing out some pretty interesting shit. Planned parenthood vs $23 pills at the pharmacy? Should tax payers pay?

Are some things not stipulated? It's like arguing with lobbyists, if you don't want something closed down, don't create such an extremely vague general way of implementing something. You want something, balance it, don't make it so one side will get so much much more then the other. But what the fuck does this have to do with women's employment? Who would use birth control for some unreasonable method? In fact, planned parent hood would be EXPENSIVE, and opposite of birth control. Why would a business care if someone uses birth control? Their idea of 'medical benefits' is taking some of your check and instead of taxing directly throwing it into your insurance plan then taxing it instead of letting you spend the money yourself.

So birth control would be the most of their worries? This is a freedom issue isn't it? And with politics the closest reason to shut down a freedom issue is by PROVING IT, therefore it comes to what people pay for. We pay for your freedom blah blah blah :rolleyes:
This thread makes me sick.





:lol: Well I guess I'm out of my element here as I really am not sure what you are trying to say.

My only position on this really has nothing to do with birth control specifically.  I just don't want to have to purchase insurance that lumps my behavior which is very different from most people and lump it in with those folk and then average it out as far as cost. Cause I end up paying for expensive things I'll very likely never ever need. I'll end up paying for others who's life/health choices make me ill.  I want to pay for what I use and based on the risk I create for my health costs.  I've been paying for others my whole life without any choice in the matter and frankly I'm sick of it.  It's not going to change but I'm going to give my opinion anyway.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: imachavel]
    #16051244 - 04/06/12 04:04 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The Republican are going way beyond their the accepted bounds, hopefully that will show in the voting booth.


--------------------


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16056984 - 04/07/12 03:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Well....its a choice to use BC sometimes, and a medical reason others.  I call it not a  "Whore Pill" but a "Woman I can fuck without risking a kid and paying for it the rest of my life" Pill.  BUT....I pity someone who can't afford $4 a month at Walmart for the generic pill, that's what my ex used to pay.  And I think lots of things that insurance pays for aren't needed.  MUCH MUCH cheaper insurance can be had by buying calamity insurance for things that are expensive, and save in a medical savings account that has a tax benefit.  Much cheaper if you work.  Then you use the medical savings account to buy viagra, BC, etc.

Buy the way, Viagra and other such "Hard On Pills" are much more expensive than BC. 

I would rather states implement their stupid laws and keep the Federal Government out because when the FEDs make laws for the states, its a lot harder to change the laws. 

I do agree that putting moral, assinine self-morality of some certain legislator or group of people' laws into effect is forcing their belief system on others.  If someone wants to marry someone, not marry them, gays marry each other, whatever sexually they prefer should not be interfered with by the government. 

As far as your statement that you can get 2 years for adultery in Korea, you couldn't prove it by me.  I was in a location tracking technology start up that had a great tracking product, very cheap (NON-gps) and SK-Telecom from Korea wanted to buy it.  The Reason:  Their biggest application for it was 'Husband Tracking Devices' for women in Korea, China, and Japan... :rofl2:


--------------------


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: starfire_xes]
    #16060800 - 04/08/12 02:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The nonsense never ends.  BY your rationale if the state pays for anything it isn't socialist to pay for everything.  Which is, of course, incredibly stupid.  There are legitimate functions of government, like security, that are common to all governments.  As far as public education goes they have clearly botched it and I don't think the federal government should have anything to do with it at all.




Let me explain to you how it is socialist in terms even you can understand.

Public taxes pay for a particular service or property, which the government then owns and dispenses to the public. What part of that isn’t “socialist?” And please explain to me exactly why state-funded healthcare would be considered “socialist,” whereas public parks and schools are apparently not socialist.

Quote:


My premiums would be less than half.  The profit margin for health insurance companies is around 5%.  In other words, peanuts.




BULLLLLLLLLLLL SHIT. Insurance companies rank #86 for industries ranked by amount of profit margin out of 215 listed industries.

Second, even IF what you were saying is true, that only proves that profit motive is what drives efficiency, thus what drives insurance companies to hastily drop coverage for any type of sick person possible.

Seriously, coverage for birth control for women would cost MAYBE in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. THAT AVERAGES OUT TO LESS THAN A FUCKING PENNY PER PERSON. You’re ACTUALLY saying you don’t want to shell out a PENNY so that women can have better access to birth control and abortions, thus SAVING YOU a fuckload of money in the long run? Apparently you don’t have a very good concept of finance, if you wouldn’t invest a single penny to save more money in the future.

Quote:

If you think they're getting so rich why don't you buy stock in health insurance companies?  As far as I know they are pretty much all publicly traded.  Be a mogul, you're such an astute analyst.




I bought stocks in 1 medical company that built heart surgery machines; I would never ever buy stock in companies that deliberately take advantage of people such as health insurance agencies. Jesus, just because Saddam Hussein and Dick Cheney offers stocks and bonds (*cough* Halliburton *cough*) for their companies doesn’t mean I want any part of it.

Quote:

Gee, he didn't pay his fucking bill, did he? 




You KNOW those 2 cents doesn’t even make an ass of difference, the insurance companies don’t give a rat’s ass about those 2 cents, and they just wanted any fucking reason to drop his ass. Are you REALLY saying that that’s okay, that they can enforce the rules so strictly that it pretty much disallows any imperfect human from continuing treatment. It’s the same reason people have gotten dropped for failing to list their preexisting conditions, even minor ones such as ACNE.

This is an outright ABUSE of the medical healthcare system and YOU KNOW IT.

I hope one day you “accidentally forget” to pay your bill by 2 cents, and then realize the sheer audacity of your statements later on.

Quote:

Most insurance coverage has limits.  It's spelled out in the fucking contract when you sign it.




That’s not any reason to DROP COVERAGE, that simply means they stop paying for the bill for that year, and then they are supposed to resume coverage the next year after that.

Quote:

Do you know why that costs so much?  because liberal nitwits forced the closing of asylums all over the country.  Put the loons back in the bin and it will be a lot cheaper.




LOL!!!!! It was RONALD REAGAN who closed the asylums in this country, not the “libruls” that you so claim :lol:

Quote:

Of course you are too wrapped up in your bullshit to know that housing prices have fallen precipitously in the last three years.  Do you live under a rock?




You mean, the housing prices that fell because the bubble burst during the recession? :rolleyes:

Quote:


Pollution does not equal waste.  Either make a case that it does or not.




Think about the long-term. In China, in areas where the pollution is so dense, many people have consequently gotten birth defects from the radiation and pollution poisoning. This costs society greatly in medical services and unemployment (if the birth defects are severe enough). Howcome conservatives never use their imagination and creativity to think about the bigger picture?

Liberals have higher IQ’s than conservatives: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100224132655.htm

Conservatives are more prone to making errors, and have larger fear centers in the brain. Which explains why Republicans are much like meth addicts, they are always going on about imaginary problems :lol: http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-sci-politics10sep10,0,2687256.story

Quote:

I am not middle class blue collar.  We are well into the 1% and I am fucking sick of paying for more and more bullshit for everybody else.




In other words, you make tens of millions of dollars, yet YOU PAY SIGNIFICANTLY LESS TAX (percentage-wise) THAN THE REST OF US HARD-WORKING, MIDDLE-CLASS AMERICANS. You top 1% pay some of the lowest taxes right after the bottom 40%. And you’re COMPLAINING?!?!!?! How GREEDY are you!

“We” are in the top 1%--lemme guess, you’re a trust fund baby living off your daddy’s paycheck. You yourself are probably unemployed, but have had the opportunity of living in the lap of luxury since birth. You yourself probably came from a rich family, and are simply wealthy because of the opportunities and wealth you have been given, and have earned awards not based on achievements, but on entitlement and luck. So you simply got LUCKY enough to afford medical care.

It’s so funny, because I am certain if your parents died, and decided not to leave you any money in their wills, it would be YOU who would be the entitled one, screaming, “Wahhh wahhh, that money was supposed to be MINE!!!!!”

Well, let me tell you something. You and your family would be worth NOTHING if it wasn’t for all those hard workers you employed that helped to build YOUR company, to make YOU rich.

If you were TRULY about implementing a fair wage, you would have paid your workers a fair wage that actually meets the standard of living, as opposed to minimum wage. (In case you haven’t noticed, minimum wage hasn’t met the standard of living for decades now.)

But no, guys like you are only about “profit maximization.” So you underpay your workers all so YOU can make that extra buck. In other words, the only reason you are “rich” is because you UNDERPAY your workers and make money by skimming off the top. Exactly like what a GREEDY PERSON would do.

In other words… You WOULDN’T BE IN THE TOP 1%, if it weren’t for the fact that you deliberately ripped off plenty of your workers from having a good standard of living.

Fuck, this makes me so glad I joined the Occupy movement after seeing exactly what people like you are like. “People”… and that’s putting it nicely.

Karl Marx > You.



Quote:

Look, it doesn't matter one wit if the rich are greedy bastards or stingy. It's their money.  I'm not rich like Zappa so I care even more that people who don't take responsibility for themselves demand that I do it for them.




You know, if you were to ever get sick, and then get dropped from a health insurance company, I highly doubt you could ever pay out of pocket to treat yourself. The people you are siding with are not on YOUR SIDE, you are EXPENDABLE to them.

Also, Obama is a CENTRIST. He’s not a “librul.” He’s made more deals with the partisanship than any of the past 10 presidents.


starfire: there was a very famous Korean actress that was charged for adultery. She was originally going to 2 years for it, but got out of jail, probably because she's famous. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/south-korean-actress-avoids-jail-for-adultery-1201679.html

Exactly, AFAIK many insurance companies already pay for Viagra, which is an expensive, expensive brand-name (each pill costs at least $20). Howcome nobody is up in arm over that?!!?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16061030 - 04/08/12 03:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

The nonsense never ends.  BY your rationale if the state pays for anything it isn't socialist to pay for everything.  Which is, of course, incredibly stupid.  There are legitimate functions of government, like security, that are common to all governments.  As far as public education goes they have clearly botched it and I don't think the federal government should have anything to do with it at all.




Let me explain to you how it is socialist in terms even you can understand.

Public taxes pay for a particular service or property, which the government then owns and dispenses to the public. What part of that isn’t “socialist?” And please explain to me exactly why state-funded healthcare would be considered “socialist,” whereas public parks and schools are apparently not socialist.

I already expressed my doubt about public education.  My question stands.  By your definition what government function is NOT socialist?

Quote:


My premiums would be less than half.  The profit margin for health insurance companies is around 5%.  In other words, peanuts.




BULLLLLLLLLLLL SHIT. Insurance companies rank #86 for industries ranked by amount of profit margin out of 215 listed industries.

Really?
Quote:

Health insurers, in fact, ranked below many other industries in profitability, including other health sectors, according to the latest Fortune magazine rankings. While pharmaceutical companies were the third-most profitable industry last year, with a 19.3 percent profit margin, health insurers ranked 35th, with a 2.2 percent profit margin. Health insurers also ranked lower in profitability than medical products and equipment makers, pharmacies and medical facilities.




That's even less.  Just fucking stop. You are so uninformed you should just default to the "I have no opinion mode".

Second, even IF what you were saying is true, that only proves that profit motive is what drives efficiency, thus what drives insurance companies to hastily drop coverage for any type of sick person possible.
What drives them to drop coverage is to protect the other policy holders.  How can you still not get this?  It isn't the insurance company that pays.  It's the other policy holders

Seriously, coverage for birth control for women would cost MAYBE in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. THAT AVERAGES OUT TO LESS THAN A FUCKING PENNY PER PERSON. You’re ACTUALLY saying you don’t want to shell out a PENNY so that women can have better access to birth control and abortions, thus SAVING YOU a fuckload of money in the long run? Apparently you don’t have a very good concept of finance, if you wouldn’t invest a single penny to save more money in the future.  If it's so fucking cheap just fucking buy it.  I see absolutely zero reason why I should be paying it

Quote:

If you think they're getting so rich why don't you buy stock in health insurance companies?  As far as I know they are pretty much all publicly traded.  Be a mogul, you're such an astute analyst.




I bought stocks in 1 medical company that built heart surgery machines; I would never ever buy stock in companies that deliberately take advantage of people such as health insurance agencies. Jesus, just because Saddam Hussein and Dick Cheney offers stocks and bonds (*cough* Halliburton *cough*) for their companies doesn’t mean I want any part of it.
Why not?  If you actually owned them you would have a voice in how they operate.  Instead you choose to opt out.  Cheney?  Really?  What does that have to do with this to anyone except a hardcore commie moron?

Quote:

Gee, he didn't pay his fucking bill, did he? 




You KNOW those 2 cents doesn’t even make an ass of difference, the insurance companies don’t give a rat’s ass about those 2 cents, and they just wanted any fucking reason to drop his ass. Are you REALLY saying that that’s okay, that they can enforce the rules so strictly that it pretty much disallows any imperfect human from continuing treatment. It’s the same reason people have gotten dropped for failing to list their preexisting conditions, even minor ones such as ACNE.

I suggest to everyone that they read their contracts before they sign them and adhere scrupulously.

This is an outright ABUSE of the medical healthcare system and YOU KNOW IT.

Insurance is not care.

I hope one day you “accidentally forget” to pay your bill by 2 cents, and then realize the sheer audacity of your statements later on.

I won't but if I did I wouldn't whine.

Quote:

Most insurance coverage has limits.  It's spelled out in the fucking contract when you sign it.




That’s not any reason to DROP COVERAGE, that simply means they stop paying for the bill for that year, and then they are supposed to resume coverage the next year after that.  That would depend on what the contract says.

Quote:

Do you know why that costs so much?  because liberal nitwits forced the closing of asylums all over the country.  Put the loons back in the bin and it will be a lot cheaper.




LOL!!!!! It was RONALD REAGAN who closed the asylums in this country, not the “libruls” that you so claim :lol:  Is that why NY State closed their asylums?  Nope.  Your boyfriend has apparently pulled another fact out of his ass.  The courts forced it.

Quote:

Of course you are too wrapped up in your bullshit to know that housing prices have fallen precipitously in the last three years.  Do you live under a rock?




You mean, the housing prices that fell because the bubble burst during the recession? :rolleyes:
That bubble bursting, i.e. losers not paying their mortgages caused the recession.
Quote:


Pollution does not equal waste.  Either make a case that it does or not.




Think about the long-term. In China, in areas where the pollution is so dense, many people have consequently gotten birth defects from the radiation and pollution poisoning. This costs society greatly in medical services and unemployment (if the birth defects are severe enough). Howcome conservatives never use their imagination and creativity to think about the bigger picture?
Yes I know.  That isn't what you said, is it?
Liberals have higher IQ’s than conservatives: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100224132655.htm

Conservatives are more prone to making errors, and have larger fear centers in the brain. Which explains why Republicans are much like meth addicts, they are always going on about imaginary problems :lol: http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-sci-politics10sep10,0,2687256.story The second one said nothing and the first one talked only about self identified conservatives among adolescents.  The second one also had a strong element of atheism.  What are you gonna do with me, a conservative atheist?

Quote:

I am not middle class blue collar.  We are well into the 1% and I am fucking sick of paying for more and more bullshit for everybody else.




In other words, you make tens of millions of dollars, yet YOU PAY SIGNIFICANTLY LESS TAX (percentage-wise) THAN THE REST OF US HARD-WORKING, MIDDLE-CLASS AMERICANS. You top 1% pay some of the lowest taxes right after the bottom 40%. And you’re COMPLAINING?!?!!?! How GREEDY are you!First of all I'm not in the group that the nitwits think pay a lower rate because their final income is reported as a capital gain.  We pay around 50% of our income in taxes.  The top 1% is only around $400K and most of them are small business owners.  I don't think we claim one single dollar in capital gains.
“We” are in the top 1%--lemme guess, you’re a trust fund baby living off your daddy’s paycheck. You yourself are probably unemployed, but have had the opportunity of living in the lap of luxury since birth. You yourself probably came from a rich family, and are simply wealthy because of the opportunities and wealth you have been given, and have earned awards not based on achievements, but on entitlement and luck. So you simply got LUCKY enough to afford medical care.



You would be quite wrong.

It’s so funny, because I am certain if your parents died, and decided not to leave you any money in their wills, it would be YOU who would be the entitled one, screaming, “Wahhh wahhh, that money was supposed to be MINE!!!!!”

The sum total of my inheritance was $35K.  My wife got a dependent mother who is now 96 years old and completely reliant on her children for support.

Well, let me tell you something. You and your family would be worth NOTHING if it wasn’t for all those hard workers you employed that helped to build YOUR company, to make YOU rich.

Not a single one of them worked as hard as I did and my wife didn't have any employees.  Nice try.

If you were TRULY about implementing a fair wage, you would have paid your workers a fair wage that actually meets the standard of living, as opposed to minimum wage. (In case you haven’t noticed, minimum wage hasn’t met the standard of living for decades now.)

But no, guys like you are only about “profit maximization.” So you underpay your workers all so YOU can make that extra buck. In other words, the only reason you are “rich” is because you UNDERPAY your workers and make money by skimming off the top. Exactly like what a GREEDY PERSON would do.

In other words… You WOULDN’T BE IN THE TOP 1%, if it weren’t for the fact that you deliberately ripped off plenty of your workers from having a good standard of living.

Fuck, this makes me so glad I joined the Occupy movement after seeing exactly what people like you are like. “People”… and that’s putting it nicely.

Karl Marx > You.

I didn't rip anybody off.  I paid them all exactly what I said I would.  None of it was minimum wage.  I got ripped off by a bunch of my employees, though.  It's actually an expected factor



Quote:

Look, it doesn't matter one wit if the rich are greedy bastards or stingy. It's their money.  I'm not rich like Zappa so I care even more that people who don't take responsibility for themselves demand that I do it for them.




You know, if you were to ever get sick, and then get dropped from a health insurance company, I highly doubt you could ever pay out of pocket to treat yourself. The people you are siding with are not on YOUR SIDE, you are EXPENDABLE to them.

Here's my free advice to anybody regarding health care.  Start a tax free health care fund of your own and negotiate with doctors.  If your state allows it buy a huge deductible emergency policy. 

I lost my health insurance policy because of Obamacare mandates.  If I wanted a fucking HMO policy I would buy one.
Also, Obama is a CENTRIST. He’s not a “librul.” He’s made more deals with the partisanship than any of the past 10 presidents.

The most liberal Senator is now a centrist?


starfire: there was a very famous Korean actress that was charged for adultery. She was originally going to 2 years for it, but got out of jail, probably because she's famous. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/south-korean-actress-avoids-jail-for-adultery-1201679.html

Exactly, AFAIK many insurance companies already pay for Viagra, which is an expensive, expensive brand-name (each pill costs at least $20). Howcome nobody is up in arm over that?!!?




Because they don't cost $20 a pill.  It costs about $2.  Along with your ignorance about the female reproductive system you have added a complete ignorance of the male reproductive system.  Buy your own whore pills or get your MD boyfriend to but them for you (and several hundred others). 


--------------------


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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 19,552
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16061147 - 04/08/12 04:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I already expressed my doubt about public education.  My question stands.  By your definition what government function is NOT socialist?




That's my point. A lot of our government functions by very definition already ARE socialist. Therefore, I don't understand people who go around claiming socialism is bad. Remnants of it already exist in the US, and have proven to be immensely fruitful.

Quote:


What drives them to drop coverage is to protect the other policy holders.  How can you still not get this?  It isn't the insurance company that pays.  It's the other policy holders




Yea, they care about those other policy holders until those policy holders become sick and start costing too much money :lol:

Quote:

If it's so fucking cheap just fucking buy it.  I see absolutely zero reason why I should be paying it




You REALLY wouldn't pay a fucking PENNY so everybody can have access to birth control, thus SAVING you more money in the long run? How greedy can you possibly be that you wouldn't pay a stupid goddamn penny for women's healthcare. You wouldn't even give it a 2nd thought if you were to lose that penny.

Quote:


Why not?  If you actually owned them you would have a voice in how they operate.  Instead you choose to opt out.  Cheney?  Really?  What does that have to do with this to anyone except a hardcore commie moron?





LOL!!!!!! You mean, you don't even know about how Cheney's company Halliburton cost you, the taxpayer, an ASSLOAD of money through waste of incredibly expensive products? Why does it not surprise me, that conservatives completely approve of waste in the military sector.

Quote:

I suggest to everyone that they read their contracts before they sign them and adhere scrupulously.




Whereas you likely can afford a lawyer that can translate legal texts, not everybody has the capacity to read exactly what's in the contract. In case you didn't know, many companies deliberately use difficult-to-read legal scripture, which can be difficult for those who have never gotten an education in law, philosophy, political theory, and other difficult-to-read texts.

Quote:

I won't but if I did I wouldn't whine.




Yea right, you would probably bitch up a storm. :rolleyes: Look at how much you're bitching up a storm just because you might actually have to pay A SINGLE PENNY to cover birth control.

Quote:

That would depend on what the contract says.




"Dropping coverage" implies that the insurance company terminates the contract with said person. Insurance companies that have "limits" end coverage for that year, and then resume the coverage for next year. "Dropping coverage" means that coverage ends PERMANENTLY.

Quote:

LOL!!!!! It was RONALD REAGAN who closed the asylums in this country, not the “libruls” that you so claim :lol:  Is that why NY State closed their asylums?  Nope.  Your boyfriend has apparently pulled another fact out of his ass.  The courts forced it.




What the fuck does my boyfriend have anything to do with this? My knowledge of politics is based on my degrees and from reading texts, my boyfriend and I rarely talk politics with each other. :rolleyes: REAGAN was the one who closed insane asylums.

http://www.sociology.org/content/vol003.004/thomas.html

"When he became president he cut federal spending for mental hospitals and put that burden on the states, which he did by rescinding President Carter’s Mental Health Systems Act of 1980. Without federal funding mental hospitals closed throughout the nation and psychiatric wards in private hospitals grew. The result was big money for the private sector and mentally ill patients left without proper institutions and care."

Quote:

Yes I know.  That isn't what you said, is it?




I said pollution causes waste. Then, apparently, since you were lacking enough creativity to formulate a scenario in which it does, I exemplified one for you.

Quote:

The second one said nothing and the first one talked only about self identified conservatives among adolescents.  The second one also had a strong element of atheism.  What are you gonna do with me, a conservative atheist?




It means the average conservative atheist is statistically not as intelligent as the average conservative liberal.

And no, you're not that smart, as I mentioned in my very last point below.

A nice way of putting extreme Republican/libertarian guys like you is to simply call you guys anarcho-capitalists.
Anarcho communists > anarcho capitalists.

Quote:


Not a single one of them worked as hard as I did and my wife didn't have any employees.  Nice try.




And exactly how the hell did you make that much money if you weren't a job-creator? Did you do it through stocks? Owning an internet company?

Quote:

I didn't rip anybody off.  I paid them all exactly what I said I would.  None of it was minimum wage.  I got ripped off by a bunch of my employees, though.  It's actually an expected factor





Oh, so you DID have employees.

Whatever. As long as you're paying them a decent and livable wage, I'm not going to complain about how you run your business.

Quote:

Also, Obama is a CENTRIST. He’s not a “librul.” He’s made more deals with the partisanship than any of the past 10 presidents.

The most liberal Senator is now a centrist?




Most so-called "leftist" politicians are really more centrist than they are left. If you had knowledge of politics and political theory you would know that. True leftists would run along the lines more of post-Marxism or extreme liberal democratism. That's why I can't help but laugh when people throw around the phrase "librul media." :lol:

Quote:

Because they don't cost $20 a pill.  It costs about $2.  Along with your ignorance about the female reproductive system you have added a complete ignorance of the male reproductive system.  Buy your own whore pills or get your MD boyfriend to but them for you (and several hundred others). 




1) Please explain what the fuck the reproductive system has to do with knowledge of brand name pharmaceutical costs. Apparently you don't know the difference between pharmaceutical knowledge and reproductive biological knowledge, yet you're claiming I don't have knowledge on reproduction. :rolleyes:

2) Cialis, which is another erectile dysfunction pill, costs almost $20 per pill: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070412043842AA4o6ZB

So apparently it is YOU who shows overwhelming ignorance of the pills that males take.

3) That's the 9th time you've said "buy your own whore pills." As I mentioned in the other thread, You keep saying "buy your own whore pills," as if you're actually making a clever statement. When you clearly ripped it off of my link from another author.

What, you want me to pat you on the back or something? Because you're not clever at all. You didn't even make that shit up; you're a PLAGIARIST. Some liberal feminist journalist was the one who coined the phrase. So you can shut the fuck up already trying to act all witty by continually saying "buy your own whore pills." You're NOT remotely clever. And you've said it about 8 or 9 times already, so you're not only a copycat who steals other people's jokes, you milk it by saying the same stupid thing over and over again, trying to get a laugh out of people


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16061270 - 04/08/12 04:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:popcorn:

Who the fuck needs Netflix? :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblememes
Blessed


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,761
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #16061291 - 04/08/12 04:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Nobody needs netflix when Crystal G returns from a long hiatus to rage up some Polit Discuss.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: memes]
    #16061303 - 04/08/12 04:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

And hell if it's just a penny then I'll pay cause every baby that isn't born puts a smile on my face.  Less suffering in the world. :thumbup:

I'll pay a lot more if folk will voluntarily get sterilized.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16061314 - 04/08/12 04:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I already expressed my doubt about public education.  My question stands.  By your definition what government function is NOT socialist?




That's my point. A lot of our government functions by very definition already ARE socialist. Therefore, I don't understand people who go around claiming socialism is bad. Remnants of it already exist in the US, and have proven to be immensely fruitful.
As per your usual you didn't answer a direct question.  Can you please attend?

Quote:


What drives them to drop coverage is to protect the other policy holders.  How can you still not get this?  It isn't the insurance company that pays.  It's the other policy holders




Yea, they care about those other policy holders until those policy holders become sick and start costing too much money :lol:

This is mind boggling.  Do you not understand that covering shit for you costs every other policy holder?  Insurance companies run on a incredibly thin margin

Quote:

If it's so fucking cheap just fucking buy it.  I see absolutely zero reason why I should be paying it




You REALLY wouldn't pay a fucking PENNY so everybody can have access to birth control, thus SAVING you more money in the long run? How greedy can you possibly be that you wouldn't pay a stupid goddamn penny for women's healthcare. You wouldn't even give it a 2nd thought if you were to lose that penny.

How greedy are you that you think I should pay for your shit?  Buy your own shit.

Quote:


Why not?  If you actually owned them you would have a voice in how they operate.  Instead you choose to opt out.  Cheney?  Really?  What does that have to do with this to anyone except a hardcore commie moron?





LOL!!!!!! You mean, you don't even know about how Cheney's company Halliburton cost you, the taxpayer, an ASSLOAD of money through waste of incredibly expensive products? Why does it not surprise me, that conservatives completely approve of waste in the military sector.

If Halliburton, a unique companm that provides unique services, makes money what the fuck do I care?  Start your own Halliburton and get rich.


Quote:

I suggest to everyone that they read their contracts before they sign them and adhere scrupulously.




Whereas you likely can afford a lawyer that can translate legal texts, not everybody has the capacity to read exactly what's in the contract. In case you didn't know, many companies deliberately use difficult-to-read legal scripture, which can be difficult for those who have never gotten an education in law, philosophy, political theory, and other difficult-to-read texts.
Every insurance policy I have signed on to I have read.  At what point am I responsible for pandering to idiots, which I believe you have asserted I am in the population of?

Quote:

I won't but if I did I wouldn't whine.




Yea right, you would probably bitch up a storm. :rolleyes: Look at how much you're bitching up a storm just because you might actually have to pay A SINGLE PENNY to cover birth control.

There is a difference between what I voluntarily accept and what commie cunts try to cram down my neck.  Not one cent of tribute

Quote:

That would depend on what the contract says.




"Dropping coverage" implies that the insurance company terminates the contract with said person. Insurance companies that have "limits" end coverage for that year, and then resume the coverage for next year. "Dropping coverage" means that coverage ends PERMANENTLY.

The insurance company is under no obligation to provide anything other than what they are contractually obliged to provide.  Pay attention.  By the way, health insurance does not equal health care.
Quote:

LOL!!!!! It was RONALD REAGAN who closed the asylums in this country, not the “libruls” that you so claim :lol:  Is that why NY State closed their asylums?  Nope.  Your boyfriend has apparently pulled another fact out of his ass.  The courts forced it.




What the fuck does my boyfriend have anything to do with this? My knowledge of politics is based on my degrees and from reading texts, my boyfriend and I rarely talk politics with each other. :rolleyes: REAGAN was the one who closed insane asylums.



http://www.sociology.org/content/vol003.004/thomas.html

"When he became president he cut federal spending for mental hospitals and put that burden on the states, which he did by rescinding President Carter’s Mental Health Systems Act of 1980. Without federal funding mental hospitals closed throughout the nation and psychiatric wards in private hospitals grew. The result was big money for the private sector and mentally ill patients left without proper institutions and care."

Is your knowledge of politics based on the same thing as your knowledge of the female reproductive system?  Like I said, the courts closed the asylums.  Why was it the responsibility of the federal government to fund them?  The states' could have.  But they didn't. In NY it was because the courts demanded it.

Quote:

Yes I know.  That isn't what you said, is it?




I said pollution causes waste. Then, apparently, since you were lacking enough creativity to formulate a scenario in which it does, I exemplified one for you.

No, you didn't

Quote:

The second one said nothing and the first one talked only about self identified conservatives among adolescents.  The second one also had a strong element of atheism.  What are you gonna do with me, a conservative atheist?




It means the average conservative atheist is statistically not as intelligent as the average conservative liberal.

No, it doesn't

And no, you're not that smart, as I mentioned in my very last point below.

Yes we know.  I'll put my SATS up against yours any day. 

A nice way of putting extreme Republican/libertarian guys like you is to simply call you guys anarcho-capitalists.
Anarcho communists > anarcho capitalists.

Yesyesyes, labels are us

Quote:


Not a single one of them worked as hard as I did and my wife didn't have any employees.  Nice try.




And exactly how the hell did you make that much money if you weren't a job-creator? Did you do it through stocks? Owning an internet company?

I didn't create the jobs.  The market did.  The market all you commies are intent on destroying

Quote:

I didn't rip anybody off.  I paid them all exactly what I said I would.  None of it was minimum wage.  I got ripped off by a bunch of my employees, though.  It's actually an expected factor





Oh, so you DID have employees.

I did, she didn't.  Ken u reid?

Whatever. As long as you're paying them a decent and livable wage, I'm not going to complain about how you run your business.

Too bad you you didn't wait to rush to judgment

Quote:

Also, Obama is a CENTRIST. He’s not a “librul.” He’s made more deals with the partisanship than any of the past 10 presidents.

The most liberal Senator is now a centrist?




Most so-called "leftist" politicians are really more centrist than they are left. True leftists would run along the lines more of post-Marxism or extreme liberal democratism. That's why I can't help but laugh when people throw around the phrase "librul media." :lol:

This is the conundrum of the librul blinker.  No matter how commie they are they try to claim centrist label.  Here's the fact.  There are 100 Senators.  Barry was deemed the most liberal out of 100.  He isn't a fucking centrist.

Quote:

Because they don't cost $20 a pill.  It costs about $2.  Along with your ignorance about the female reproductive system you have added a complete ignorance of the male reproductive system.  Buy your own whore pills or get your MD boyfriend to but them for you (and several hundred others). 




1) Please explain what the fuck the reproductive system has to do with knowledge of brand name pharmaceutical costs. Apparently you don't know the difference between pharmaceutical knowledge and reproductive biological knowledge, yet you're claiming I don't have knowledge on reproduction. :rolleyes:

I know a liar when I see one  And I'm right about how much Viagra costs.  Also about how much the pill costs.  You, on the other hand....

2) Cialis, which is another erectile dysfunction pill, costs almost $20 per pill: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070412043842AA4o6ZB

So apparently it is YOU who shows overwhelming ignorance of the pills that males take.

Liar.  That's all I can say.  You're a liar.

{URL REMOVED BY WEBMASTER'S REQUEST}
20 pill 100 mg
$ 38.00 $ 1.90

$ 34.00 $ 1.70


http://www.searchedmeds.com/

The highest price is 4.70


3) That's the 9th time you've said "buy your own whore pills." As I mentioned in the other thread, You keep saying "buy your own whore pills," as if you're actually making a clever statement. When you clearly ripped it off of my link from another author.
As I explained to you it is mockery.  I am throwing their own words back in their cunty faces.  Buy your own whore pills

What, you want me to pat you on the back or something? Because you're not clever at all. You didn't even make that shit up; you're a PLAGIARIST. Some liberal feminist journalist was the one who coined the phrase. So you can shut the fuck up already trying to act all witty by continually saying "buy your own whore pills." You're NOT remotely clever. And you've said it about 8 or 9 times already, so you're not only a copycat who steals other people's jokes, you milk it by saying the same stupid thing over and over again, trying to get a laugh out of people




It wasn't my stupid thing.  And get used to hearing it, because I'm going to use it every time you post more ignorant bullshit.  Like menopause at 40.


--------------------


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Offlinestarfire_xes
I Am 'They'
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16062330 - 04/08/12 09:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Well, I agree liberals have more intelligence than conservatives.  The problem is, they have a lot less common sense than conservatives and can't think for themselves--they need someone to tell them what they should do.

Also, Obama isn't a liberal.  he is a fascist.  he is a left-leaning fascist, bush was a right leaning fascist.  Read the definition of fascism in the Encyclopedia of Economics (online)


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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 19,552
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Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16063545 - 04/09/12 01:51 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
This is mind boggling.  Do you not understand that covering shit for you costs every other policy holder?  Insurance companies run on a incredibly thin margin




And as I mentioned, if birth control were covered, it would cost only in the hundreds of thousands, which would equate to less than a single penny per American to offset those costs.

So again, I ask, what's  the fucking problem?

Quote:

How greedy are you that you think I should pay for your shit?  Buy your own shit.




I don't rely on government benefits to get my way. However, I am still deeply concerned about the people who cannot afford this care. Which is why people like me donate their time and energy towards philanthropic organizations and charities, whereas people like you, lack the conscientiousness to do so. Ah, the pitfalls of American society. Just care about your own stupid self, and screw everybody else! IT'S THE AMERICAN WAY! :rolleyes:

Quote:


If Halliburton, a unique companm that provides unique services, makes money what the fuck do I care?  Start your own Halliburton and get rich.





LOL!!!! Because it's costing YOU, the TAXPAYER, an assload of money, that's why!!!

When Halliburton contracted with the military for the Iraq and Afghan War, they wasted a FUCKLOAD of resources. Company employees were ordering brand-new $80,000 Hummer limousines, Apple computers, $100,000 big rig trucks. They when they got them, they would find ONE tiny flaw in the equipment (such as the Apple computers not coming with webcams, or the Hummer limousines not coming with seat warmers, or the trucks coming with 8 wheels instead of 10), and instead of going ahead and using that perfectly usable, fine equipment, they went ahead and BURNED THEM!!!! LITERALLY!!! IN A FUCKING FIRE!!! THEN they ordered brand new ones!!!

And they deliberately wasted all that shit, because they KNEW that Uncle Sam's dime would pay for it all! Who gives a shit about saving fucking money when the taxpayers are going to cover all the costs anyway?!!

Funny how guys like you don't give a shit about the military outright abusing and wasting your money, yet when that very same amount of money would be used to pay for birth control, it becomes "That's MYYYY money, don't touch!"

And the only reason Halliburton even became the primary contractor for the 2 wars, is because Dick Cheney was CEO of Halliburton and still had a fuck-ton of shares in the company when he became VP. It was clearly a conflict of interests though, but you're the one on HIS side, right?

Quote:

There is a difference between what I voluntarily accept and what commie cunts try to cram down my neck.  Not one cent of tribute




I am a post-Marxist, not a communist. Get the difference right. Or do you not know the difference between the two? Post-Marxists are actually more capitalist than they are communist.

Quote:


Like I said, the courts closed the asylums.  Why was it the responsibility of the federal government to fund them?  The states' could have.  But they didn't. In NY it was because the courts demanded it.





If I recall, this is what you said:

Quote:


because liberal nitwits forced the closing of asylums all over the country.




Quote:


because liberal nitwits forced the closing of asylums all over the country.




Quote:


because liberal nitwits forced the closing of asylums all over the country.




Quote:


because liberal nitwits forced the closing of asylums all over the country.




To which I said, it wasn't the "libruls" that forced the closing of anything, it was Reagan who signed off on the bill that did exactly that. Please study up on your history.

Quote:


I didn't create the jobs.  The market did.  The market all you commies are intent on destroying




Just FYI, even in communist societies there is a market too. Simply not a money-based economic market. But a market surely does exist.

If you take a look at small societies that live based upon socialist and anarchist principles for example--the Amish and hippie communes--worker productivity is almost 100% in both these societies. The idea that people would only work for financial incentive is a myth that capitalists have created to purport the capitalization of their wealth.

And if you look at Spain before the Civil War in the 1930s, you will see many accounts of anarcho-communist cities, where production levels actually went UP in areas ran by anarchists.

Much like other conservatives who don't know anything about politics, I predict you're probably going to list North Korea and Cuba as examples of communism. :rolleyes: To which I would state, they are not, and have never been truly communist societies. They are dictatorships. In a truly communist society, there would be no single wealthy person hoarding everybody's wealth at the top.

Quote:


Too bad you you didn't wait to rush to judgment




Sorry, but people usually don't collect an exorbitant amount of wealth by dispensing fair wages and promoting equality. If they did, they wouldn't be in the top 1%.

But, since you emphasized that you are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars-type wealth, and not the tens of millions dollars range, I am more inclined to believe your story.

Quote:


Liar.  That's all I can say.  You're a liar.

{URL REMOVED BY WEBMASTER'S REQUEST}




Can you not READ?!!!? That clearly says in the link "GENERIC viagra." GENERIC. Clearly I was talkin about BRAND NAMES. Viagra wasn't always generic, you know.

And, jesus, even if it IS $4 per pill now, that means that for every 30-day prescription it's $120. Which is at least 4 times more expensive than most birth control pills. Yet you're not all up in arms about having this covered, are you? :rolleyes:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16066808 - 04/09/12 09:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
This is mind boggling.  Do you not understand that covering shit for you costs every other policy holder?  Insurance companies run on a incredibly thin margin




And as I mentioned, if birth control were covered, it would cost only in the hundreds of thousands, which would equate to less than a single penny per American to offset those costs.

So again, I ask, what's  the fucking problem?


  What kind of slow is happening here.  Buy your own shit and get the fuck out of my wallet.
Quote:



Quote:

How greedy are you that you think I should pay for your shit?  Buy your own shit.




I don't rely on government benefits to get my way. However, I am still deeply concerned about the people who cannot afford this care. Which is why people like me donate their time and energy towards philanthropic organizations and charities, whereas people like you, lack the conscientiousness to do so. Ah, the pitfalls of American society. Just care about your own stupid self, and screw everybody else! IT'S THE AMERICAN WAY! :rolleyes:




My own stupid self?  Really, buy your own shit.  I'm sick of paying for everything every liberal jackass wants.  You aint paying




Quote:


If Halliburton, a unique company that provides unique services, makes money what the fuck do I care?  Start your own Halliburton and get rich.
Quote:



LOL!!!! Because it's costing YOU, the TAXPAYER, an assload of money, that's why!!!


They actually do something for their money
Quote:



When Halliburton contracted with the military for the Iraq and Afghan War, they wasted a FUCKLOAD of resources. Company employees were ordering brand-new $80,000 Hummer limousines, Apple computers, $100,000 big rig trucks. They when they got them, they would find ONE tiny flaw in the equipment (such as the Apple computers not coming with webcams, or the Hummer limousines not coming with seat warmers, or the trucks coming with 8 wheels instead of 10), and instead of going ahead and using that perfectly usable, fine equipment, they went ahead and BURNED THEM!!!! LITERALLY!!! IN A FUCKING FIRE!!! THEN they ordered brand new ones!!!

And they deliberately wasted all that shit, because they KNEW that Uncle Sam's dime would pay for it all! Who gives a shit about saving fucking money when the taxpayers are going to cover all the costs anyway?!!

Funny how guys like you don't give a shit about the military outright abusing and wasting your money, yet when that very same amount of money would be used to pay for birth control, it becomes "That's MYYYY money, don't touch!"




I suggest you have a problem with government procurement agencies.  And yet you want government in charge of more?:flowstone:

And I do care about military waste.  Non sequitur, on your part.  Halliburton's miuse of taxpayer funds is irrelevant to your misuse of taxpayer funds.
Quote:

Quote:



And the only reason Halliburton even became the primary contractor for the 2 wars, is because Dick Cheney was CEO of Halliburton and still had a fuck-ton of shares in the company when he became VP. It was clearly a conflict of interests though, but you're the one on HIS side, right?

Quote:

There is a difference between what I voluntarily accept and what commie cunts try to cram down my neck.  Not one cent of tribute




I am a post-Marxist, not a communist. Get the difference right. Or do you not know the difference between the two? Post-Marxists are actually more capitalist than they are communist.:facepalm:

Quote:


Like I said, the courts closed the asylums.  Why was it the responsibility of the federal government to fund them?  The states' could have.  But they didn't. In NY it was because the courts demanded it.





If I recall, this is what you said:

Quote:


because liberal nitwits forced the closing of asylums all over the country.






To which I said, it wasn't the "libruls" that forced the closing of anything, it was Reagan who signed off on the bill that did exactly that. Please study up on your history.




False.  AllReagan did was end federal funding for asylums.  Why do you think the federal government is and must be the source of all funding?
Quote:





Quote:


I didn't create the jobs.  The market did.  The market all you commies are intent on destroying




Just FYI, even in communist societies there is a market too. Simply not a money-based economic market. But a market surely does exist.




Yes, a market in political connectedness.
Quote:



If you take a look at small societies that live based upon socialist and anarchist principles for example--the Amish and hippie communes--worker productivity is almost 100% in both these societies. The idea that people would only work for financial incentive is a myth that capitalists have created to purport the capitalization of their wealth.

And if you look at Spain before the Civil War in the 1930s, you will see many accounts of anarcho-communist cities, where production levels actually went UP in areas ran by anarchists.:facepalm:

Much like other conservatives who don't know anything about politics, I predict you're probably going to list North Korea and Cuba as examples of communism. :rolleyes: To which I would state, they are not, and have never been truly communist societies. They are dictatorships. In a truly communist society, there would be no single wealthy person hoarding everybody's wealth at the top.




Here is always the last refuge of the commie defender.  That there has never been a truly communist state. 
Quote:



Quote:


Too bad you you didn't wait to rush to judgment




Sorry, but people usually don't collect an exorbitant amount of wealth by dispensing fair wages and promoting equality. If they did, they wouldn't be in the top 1%.

But, since you emphasized that you are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars-type wealth, and not the tens of millions dollars range, I am more inclined to believe your story.




It took us over 20 years to get there.  This is what children don't understand.  You have to work your way there.  It takes time.  I didn't make shit when I was your age. ( well, not quite but I think you might get the point)

Quote:


Liar.  That's all I can say.  You're a liar.

{URL REMOVED BY WEBMASTER'S REQUEST}




Can you not READ?!!!? That clearly says in the link "GENERIC viagra." GENERIC. Clearly I was talkin about BRAND NAMES. Viagra wasn't always generic, you know.[/quote0  You got a problem with generics?
Quote:



And, jesus, even if it IS $4 per pill now, that means that for every 30-day prescription it's $120. Which is at least 4 times more expensive than most birth control pills. Yet you're not all up in arms about having this covered, are you? :rolleyes:


No I am not.  It shouldn't be covered at all.  I think I said that.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16067225 - 04/09/12 10:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

"If you take a look at small societies that live based upon socialist and anarchist principles for example--the Amish and hippie communes--worker productivity is almost 100% in both these societies"

Obviously whoever wrote this didn't ever experience the hippy movement.  It died somewhere around 1968, 1969, because of all the leaches that infiltrated it for the sole purpose of fucking and getting free drugs. 

Read the "Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test" by Tom Wolfe he clearly states this in the book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Electric_Kool-Aid_Acid_Test

Also how is a movement that forces everyone in their establisment (Amish) to adhere to a certain religion rigorously and altruistic society?  Its just a cult.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: starfire_xes]
    #16067266 - 04/09/12 10:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)



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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16067343 - 04/09/12 10:46 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

The nonsense never ends.  BY your rationale if the state pays for anything it isn't socialist to pay for everything.  Which is, of course, incredibly stupid.  There are legitimate functions of government, like security, that are common to all governments.  As far as public education goes they have clearly botched it and I don't think the federal government should have anything to do with it at all.




Let me explain to you how it is socialist in terms even you can understand.

Public taxes pay for a particular service or property, which the government then owns and dispenses to the public. What part of that isn’t “socialist?” And please explain to me exactly why state-funded healthcare would be considered “socialist,” whereas public parks and schools are apparently not socialist.

Quote:


My premiums would be less than half.  The profit margin for health insurance companies is around 5%.  In other words, peanuts.




BULLLLLLLLLLLL SHIT. Insurance companies rank #86 for industries ranked by amount of profit margin out of 215 listed industries.

Second, even IF what you were saying is true, that only proves that profit motive is what drives efficiency, thus what drives insurance companies to hastily drop coverage for any type of sick person possible.

Seriously, coverage for birth control for women would cost MAYBE in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. THAT AVERAGES OUT TO LESS THAN A FUCKING PENNY PER PERSON. You’re ACTUALLY saying you don’t want to shell out a PENNY so that women can have better access to birth control and abortions, thus SAVING YOU a fuckload of money in the long run? Apparently you don’t have a very good concept of finance, if you wouldn’t invest a single penny to save more money in the future.

Quote:

If you think they're getting so rich why don't you buy stock in health insurance companies?  As far as I know they are pretty much all publicly traded.  Be a mogul, you're such an astute analyst.




I bought stocks in 1 medical company that built heart surgery machines; I would never ever buy stock in companies that deliberately take advantage of people such as health insurance agencies. Jesus, just because Saddam Hussein and Dick Cheney offers stocks and bonds (*cough* Halliburton *cough*) for their companies doesn’t mean I want any part of it.

Quote:

Gee, he didn't pay his fucking bill, did he? 




You KNOW those 2 cents doesn’t even make an ass of difference, the insurance companies don’t give a rat’s ass about those 2 cents, and they just wanted any fucking reason to drop his ass. Are you REALLY saying that that’s okay, that they can enforce the rules so strictly that it pretty much disallows any imperfect human from continuing treatment. It’s the same reason people have gotten dropped for failing to list their preexisting conditions, even minor ones such as ACNE.

This is an outright ABUSE of the medical healthcare system and YOU KNOW IT.

I hope one day you “accidentally forget” to pay your bill by 2 cents, and then realize the sheer audacity of your statements later on.

Quote:

Most insurance coverage has limits.  It's spelled out in the fucking contract when you sign it.




That’s not any reason to DROP COVERAGE, that simply means they stop paying for the bill for that year, and then they are supposed to resume coverage the next year after that.

Quote:

Do you know why that costs so much?  because liberal nitwits forced the closing of asylums all over the country.  Put the loons back in the bin and it will be a lot cheaper.




LOL!!!!! It was RONALD REAGAN who closed the asylums in this country, not the “libruls” that you so claim :lol:

Quote:

Of course you are too wrapped up in your bullshit to know that housing prices have fallen precipitously in the last three years.  Do you live under a rock?




You mean, the housing prices that fell because the bubble burst during the recession? :rolleyes:

Quote:


Pollution does not equal waste.  Either make a case that it does or not.




Think about the long-term. In China, in areas where the pollution is so dense, many people have consequently gotten birth defects from the radiation and pollution poisoning. This costs society greatly in medical services and unemployment (if the birth defects are severe enough). Howcome conservatives never use their imagination and creativity to think about the bigger picture?

Liberals have higher IQ’s than conservatives: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100224132655.htm

Conservatives are more prone to making errors, and have larger fear centers in the brain. Which explains why Republicans are much like meth addicts, they are always going on about imaginary problems :lol: http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-sci-politics10sep10,0,2687256.story

Quote:

I am not middle class blue collar.  We are well into the 1% and I am fucking sick of paying for more and more bullshit for everybody else.




In other words, you make tens of millions of dollars, yet YOU PAY SIGNIFICANTLY LESS TAX (percentage-wise) THAN THE REST OF US HARD-WORKING, MIDDLE-CLASS AMERICANS. You top 1% pay some of the lowest taxes right after the bottom 40%. And you’re COMPLAINING?!?!!?! How GREEDY are you!

“We” are in the top 1%--lemme guess, you’re a trust fund baby living off your daddy’s paycheck. You yourself are probably unemployed, but have had the opportunity of living in the lap of luxury since birth. You yourself probably came from a rich family, and are simply wealthy because of the opportunities and wealth you have been given, and have earned awards not based on achievements, but on entitlement and luck. So you simply got LUCKY enough to afford medical care.

It’s so funny, because I am certain if your parents died, and decided not to leave you any money in their wills, it would be YOU who would be the entitled one, screaming, “Wahhh wahhh, that money was supposed to be MINE!!!!!”

Well, let me tell you something. You and your family would be worth NOTHING if it wasn’t for all those hard workers you employed that helped to build YOUR company, to make YOU rich.

If you were TRULY about implementing a fair wage, you would have paid your workers a fair wage that actually meets the standard of living, as opposed to minimum wage. (In case you haven’t noticed, minimum wage hasn’t met the standard of living for decades now.)

But no, guys like you are only about “profit maximization.” So you underpay your workers all so YOU can make that extra buck. In other words, the only reason you are “rich” is because you UNDERPAY your workers and make money by skimming off the top. Exactly like what a GREEDY PERSON would do.

In other words… You WOULDN’T BE IN THE TOP 1%, if it weren’t for the fact that you deliberately ripped off plenty of your workers from having a good standard of living.

Fuck, this makes me so glad I joined the Occupy movement after seeing exactly what people like you are like. “People”… and that’s putting it nicely.

Karl Marx > You.



Quote:

Look, it doesn't matter one wit if the rich are greedy bastards or stingy. It's their money.  I'm not rich like Zappa so I care even more that people who don't take responsibility for themselves demand that I do it for them.




You know, if you were to ever get sick, and then get dropped from a health insurance company, I highly doubt you could ever pay out of pocket to treat yourself. The people you are siding with are not on YOUR SIDE, you are EXPENDABLE to them.

Also, Obama is a CENTRIST. He’s not a “librul.” He’s made more deals with the partisanship than any of the past 10 presidents.


starfire: there was a very famous Korean actress that was charged for adultery. She was originally going to 2 years for it, but got out of jail, probably because she's famous. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/south-korean-actress-avoids-jail-for-adultery-1201679.html

Exactly, AFAIK many insurance companies already pay for Viagra, which is an expensive, expensive brand-name (each pill costs at least $20). Howcome nobody is up in arm over that?!!?




dude you are right completely. When people want to be right, they will never be wrong. Hitler could put a gun to your head and make you say the colors of the flag are red white and yellow. What can you do?

socialist? It's very hard to say just because rich get richer and poor get poorer that we live by socialist standards. Democracy? Farthest from it. How about fascist? Well I don't we are nitpicking here aren't we...

this country blows and sucks, a rich guy gets it all, and everyone else gets much more.......... compared to India, Vietnam, and Africa. Now who ISN'T poor compared to those countries? Of course we seem rich compared to them. What does our GDP look like compared to Australia though?

I should have clarified that better. I always get tired of typing or something, then only explain things about half way what I could. Fucking a sucks re reading what I say...


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


Edited by imachavel (04/10/12 05:46 PM)


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: starfire_xes]
    #16067672 - 04/10/12 12:07 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Obviously whoever wrote this didn't ever experience the hippy movement.  It died somewhere around 1968, 1969, because of all the leaches that infiltrated it for the sole purpose of fucking and getting free drugs. 




The MOVEMENT may have died around them, but there are several hippie communes, poly communes, nudist colonies, and organic farming communities that still exist way out in the boondocks, that operate very much like a communist society. Everybody does their own share of the work and everybody eats. Nobody sits around all day doing nothing. I am surprised you didn't know that.

If you don't like the beliefs of the Amish, you simply move on to a different collective group that adheres to your beliefs. Nobody's forcing you to believe anything.

And zappa I'm not going to respond to any more one-line non-sequiturs anymore, but there is one thing I wanted to respond to:

Quote:

False.  AllReagan did was end federal funding for asylums.  Why do you think the federal government is and must be the source of all funding?




Ummmm, the closing of the asylums is the secondary byproduct that resulted because of the end of funding for asylums. Naturally, once asylums lacked the funding, they could no longer afford to continue operating, and forced themselves to close.

Read the "Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test" by Tom Wolfe he clearly states this in the book.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16067771 - 04/10/12 12:24 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The last truly pure communist societies that I know were the Native AMericans in the united state.  You contributed or you died.  No leaches, and even the chief and tribal councils had to carry their weight.  No sitting around and collecting a salary because you are the big cheese running things.

yes, there probably are communes that practice communism.  I'll bet they are selective and you have to produce.  I.E no handouts.

As far as the amish, yes you have a choice.  But with our government becoming increasingly FASCIST, you wouldn't have a choice--no matter what they cram down your throat.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: starfire_xes]
    #16068185 - 04/10/12 01:55 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
The last truly pure communist societies that I know were the Native AMericans in the united state.  You contributed or you died.  No leaches, and even the chief and tribal councils had to carry their weight.  No sitting around and collecting a salary because you are the big cheese running things.

yes, there probably are communes that practice communism.  I'll bet they are selective and you have to produce.  I.E no handouts.

As far as the amish, yes you have a choice.  But with our government becoming increasingly FASCIST, you wouldn't have a choice--no matter what they cram down your throat.




Well, "handouts" are necessary in certain cases, such as if you are too old, mentally or physically handicapped, or injured on the job or something. But yea, if you are an able-bodied person, then that person would be working in an ideal communist utopia. But the handsouts you're talking about (AKA the need for "welfare"), would obviously no longer exist in a communist society, because the disparity in wealth would not be nearly as great.

You've said this fascism thing several times, but haven't listed exactly how the government is becoming fascist. AFAIK freedom of speech and freedom of religion still exist in the US


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: memes]
    #16068342 - 04/10/12 02:43 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
:popcorn:

Who the fuck needs Netflix? :thumbup:



Nobody needs netflix when Crystal G returns from a long hiatus to rage up some Polit Discuss.



No shit.  Who needs Ultimate Fighting Championship either?  That was a brutal ass kicking.  :cheer:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16068573 - 04/10/12 04:01 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
The last truly pure communist societies that I know were the Native AMericans in the united state.  You contributed or you died.  No leaches, and even the chief and tribal councils had to carry their weight.  No sitting around and collecting a salary because you are the big cheese running things.

yes, there probably are communes that practice communism.  I'll bet they are selective and you have to produce.  I.E no handouts.

As far as the amish, yes you have a choice.  But with our government becoming increasingly FASCIST, you wouldn't have a choice--no matter what they cram down your throat.




Well, "handouts" are necessary in certain cases, such as if you are too old, mentally or physically handicapped, or injured on the job or something. But yea, if you are an able-bodied person, then that person would be working in an ideal communist utopia. But the handsouts you're talking about (AKA the need for "welfare"), would obviously no longer exist in a communist society, because the disparity in wealth would not be nearly as great.

You've said this fascism thing several times, but haven't listed exactly how the government is becoming fascist. AFAIK freedom of speech and freedom of religion still exist in the US




Facism is an Economic term.  Go read the article on the internet.  US meets about%80 to %85 of the definition. 

Some of the things that are inherent:

Fiat money creation, currency manipulation, a central banking authority, borrowing money for:

Publics works projects, and militarism;
Large boards of  planners and manager, etc created at a central government level to regulate industry and labor;
the loss of states rights; states rights are where the democracy is.  When the federal government can bully states, the states citizens who vote for laws no longer have democracy.  I.E, medical marijuana laws--states voters vote on them, the central authority stops them.  they've lost their democratic vote.

one of my favorites: "In its day (the 1920s and 1930s), fascism was seen as the happy medium between boom-and-bust-prone liberal capitalism, with its alleged class conflict, wasteful competition, and profit-oriented egoism, and revolutionary Marxism, with its violent and socially divisive persecution of the bourgeoisie."

notice how pointedly Facism is seen as the alternative to 'profit' 'capitalism' 'competition', etc.

facism seeks to control the economy:  Private corporations are allowed, but are favored by the government:  'Green Energy Companies' over 'Big Oil' --classic example.  'Or deciding that car companies get bailouts. 

"Levels of consumption were dictated by the state, and “excess” incomes had to be surrendered as taxes or “loans.” The consequent burdening of manufacturers gave advantages to foreign firms wishing to export. "  Now where have I heard that before...hmmmm...

The goal is a central government, not the states, controlling every aspect of the economy, including wages, who can do what, production--everything.

As for free speech, I've heard a lot of people calling for 'conservative talk radio' to be shut down, or interesting bills like 'the fairness doctrine' which is a thinly disguised way to try and put a muzzle on the media.

Just read it, read the article, you will see.  thats the direction the US is going--and it isn't free market capitalism anymore, and hasn't been for a long time.  THAT IS WHY THE US ECONOMY IS SO FUCKED UP. 

link:  http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html

one other gem out of this article:  "In the United States, beginning in 1933, the constellation of government interventions known as the New Deal had features suggestive of the corporate state. The National Industrial Recovery Act created code authorities and codes of practice that governed all aspects of manufacturing and commerce."  Started by whom?  Liberal, FDR.  Of course nowadays the right is just as bad, they just lean more to the right and favor different companies. 

By the way, in Native americans a friend or family took care of the disabled, old etc.  Not the tribal council.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: starfire_xes]
    #16068603 - 04/10/12 04:18 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Doesn't nearly every single developed country fall under fascism then? What country doesn't do any of those things?

I visited that link. That entire explanation and definition of fascism is actually used to describe the economies of presently-determined fascist states (which were historically privatized in nature, but contingent upon its duty to the state).

They even describe Italian and Nazi fascism, by using Mussolini and Hitler as their highlighted examples. So, the term "fascism" is not actually used as a separate economic term; this page is describing how fascist economies operate. Which the U.S. is not.

Technically we were already fascist long before the advent of Obama's candidacy as POTUS. The FCC for example, which has long been funded by the Republican Party, is clearly "fascist" in and of itself.


Edited by Crystal G (04/10/12 05:18 AM)


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16068726 - 04/10/12 05:56 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I said the republicans are just as bad.  And the features of our country are really matching up to facism.  I don't notice the blatant militarism out of other countries.  And all so, the rush to have the government control everything and do away with states rights is a clear step in a facist direction. 

And I think I said Fascism is an economic model.  Just like Free Market Captialism is.  "this page is describing how fascist economies operate. Which the U.S. is not."  IT is exactly how the US is operating.  Labor and industrial boards, agencies controlling and regulating everything, etc.  The fiat money, borrowing and spending for social programs and military, we have that also.  WHen we are getting dangerous close is when the president is trying to gain the power himself, and be the sole authority "If the congress isn't going to act, I will...."  "The supreme court is activist and shouldn't repeal a bill...."  He's trying to override their authority. 

No, we are well on the way to a fascist state--we are NOT a free market economy.  The government should be smaller, they should be accountable, EVERYONE should have lower taxes, and EVERYONE should pay taxes.

You made a point about the Amish--they are free to leave.  IF states have individual laws, and aren't controlled by the Federal government.  If the Fed is controlling, you've lost your choice, your democracy.  Federal Drug laws--perfect example.  You can't leave to another state to escape them.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16069149 - 04/10/12 10:30 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
The last truly pure communist societies that I know were the Native AMericans in the united state.  You contributed or you died.  No leaches, and even the chief and tribal councils had to carry their weight.  No sitting around and collecting a salary because you are the big cheese running things.

yes, there probably are communes that practice communism.  I'll bet they are selective and you have to produce.  I.E no handouts.

As far as the amish, yes you have a choice.  But with our government becoming increasingly FASCIST, you wouldn't have a choice--no matter what they cram down your throat.




Well, "handouts" are necessary in certain cases, such as if you are too old, mentally or physically handicapped, or injured on the job or something. But yea, if you are an able-bodied person, then that person would be working in an ideal communist utopia. But the handsouts you're talking about (AKA the need for "welfare"), would obviously no longer exist in a communist society, because the disparity in wealth would not be nearly as great.

You've said this fascism thing several times, but haven't listed exactly how the government is becoming fascist. AFAIK freedom of speech and freedom of religion still exist in the US





Often the American Indian Communists left the old behind to die so they would not be a drag on the community as a whole. This was considered good policy as the whole being more important than the individual.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #16069530 - 04/10/12 12:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by Gilgamesh18

Reason for deletion: k



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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #16069622 - 04/10/12 12:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

hardly:lol: There was little that was perfect about them. Only in comparison to us. :haha:


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: starfire_xes]
    #16069705 - 04/10/12 01:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
I said the republicans are just as bad.  And the features of our country are really matching up to facism.  I don't notice the blatant militarism out of other countries.  And all so, the rush to have the government control everything and do away with states rights is a clear step in a facist direction. 

And I think I said Fascism is an economic model.  Just like Free Market Captialism is.  "this page is describing how fascist economies operate. Which the U.S. is not."  IT is exactly how the US is operating.  Labor and industrial boards, agencies controlling and regulating everything, etc.  The fiat money, borrowing and spending for social programs and military, we have that also.  WHen we are getting dangerous close is when the president is trying to gain the power himself, and be the sole authority "If the congress isn't going to act, I will...."  "The supreme court is activist and shouldn't repeal a bill...."  He's trying to override their authority. 

No, we are well on the way to a fascist state--we are NOT a free market economy.  The government should be smaller, they should be accountable, EVERYONE should have lower taxes, and EVERYONE should pay taxes.

You made a point about the Amish--they are free to leave.  IF states have individual laws, and aren't controlled by the Federal government.  If the Fed is controlling, you've lost your choice, your democracy.  Federal Drug laws--perfect example.  You can't leave to another state to escape them.




so Crystal G thinks communism would win? I don't see how indian societies come close to passing as a communist government. Everyone being involved is supposed to be liberal, not communist. Communism is the worst thing, every body being told what to do, while the government sits on it's ass. Stalin was working hard fixing cars while millions of people starved? He was a hard working mechanic

Normally Zappas opinion pisses me off, but he is desperately needed for another reply. Crystal where the fuck do you get the fucking idea that communists gave a shit about birth control? Democracy is real, we just haven't had it in a long time. My point was NEVER to lead the debate into thinking that fascism or communism was better then democracy, it was that our country looks a lot lot less like democracy every day, with 1% of the companies getting nothing but corporate benefits and hand outs from the government, while other hard working companies with good credit get a fuck you in the face.

Yes, I am disgusted by the fact that people can sit on their ass and not do shit. While tribal leaders had the right to dictate authority they sure as fuck had their share of work. I understand that at the LEAST, a construction contractor should be on the site all day, everybody needs to work. No way around it, no body should be SO retired they can sit around and dictate just because they have more money. At the same time if you worked hard for your money, and it's your day off, and you earned your money fair and square, you should be free to spend it however you want, in accordance with respect life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Where does anybody get the fucking idea communism is close to that? It's a total disaster that no one understands unless they've lived in Cuba or Russia or another communist or post communist country. I mean fuck in Cuba you'll never meet people more simple, but trust me, they all hate Castro. And I guarantee you that Russia NEVER worked. It's form of democracy is so close to the communism it once was, it's almost a joke that they don't call themselves communist anymore. If anything our country is starting to resemble Russian democracy more then U.S. democracy. But dude there is no fucking rainbow hippy gatherings in Communist Russia. Where the fuck does anyone get that idea?

If you want free health care, cops that use less force, freedom of people, by the people for the people, look at Englands current model. Wtf, hippy gatherings resemble communism? O.K. who knows what a pain in the ass A camp is. drunken red necks trying to beat people up. No no no no no this is the most horse shit I've ever heard. Who the fucking fuck in their right mind would talk this shit? Look at Amsterdam, fine example of what democracy SHOULD be. I shouldn't have mentioned communism or fascism, I should be banned from the thread. I get pissed by Zappa at times man but you need guys like Zappa to keep things in order otherwise things start to rot into a manure like mentality.

In communist countries, HIPPIES get thrown in jail then shot, just because the government says it's o.k. for the police to do so. If they aren't shot by the police, the police throw them into circulation and pay Arian fucking russ tards to rape and stab them. That is not freedom of speech. Freedom of speech however, should NOT be 50 cent making an album claiming all the people he murdered, and the police not being able to use his lyrics as testimony to the 50 actual murder cases he is wanted for. That I think is horse shit.

Or is it? Do you think it's inadmissible as evidence? If I came on here and said fuck birth control and fuck crystal G I rape and kill people and grow 800 pounds of shrooms a year, should the cops be able to trace my public i.p. address to my friends computer, get a warrant, then bust into his house and arrest him and charge him for admitting to crimes wanted in several states etc. etc. etc.?

meh.... on the other hand let's not forget the issue and fight amongst ourselves.. peoples rights is what I'm for. I guess the method changes but don't allow the method to blind you to a concept that doesn't change with an alternate method.

so I stick with what I say, I don't think tax payers should pay for birth control, but also no one should be allowed to tell a women she can't use birth control. Well fuck it...


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


Edited by imachavel (04/10/12 02:13 PM)


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Icelander]
    #16069715 - 04/10/12 01:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
hardly:lol: There was little that was perfect about them. Only in comparison to us. :haha:




hahahaha, they had more war and scalpings then you could possibly GRASP! Only in comparison to us and Stalin and Hitler and Saddam Hussein do they look pure. The world would think they were barbaric savages until white man came in and purposefully gave them plagues and then raped and murdered and scalped more of them in weeks then they had carved as their own notches into trees of rapings and scalpings and murders of their own over decades and centuries


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: imachavel]
    #16069938 - 04/10/12 02:32 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

They only left old people behind if no one wanted them.  That is, a family or someone who was just...a friend could help them out. 

A good movie to see is 'A Man Called Horse' with Richard Harris, about an English aristocrat who gets captured by the Sioux in the early 1800's.  he is basically treated like a shit slave, he has to play with boys, and pick berries and do woman shit--until a day when he kills two hostile indians and scalps one, takes their horses because they were stalking the village.

Lots of other examples in that movie...and it is stated that the movie is an accurate representation of the sioux indians of that era, from historical records as well as because the indian actors were from one particular sioux tribe.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Man_Called_Horse_%28film%29 some activists disagree. 

That is close as I can think to true communism. Everyone shares equally, unless you don't cut the mustard--then you are lucky if yu get to lick the spoon.


--------------------


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: starfire_xes]
    #16070733 - 04/10/12 05:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Facism is an Economic term.  Go read the article on the internet.  US meets about%80 to %85 of the definition. 

Some of the things that are inherent:

Fiat money creation, currency manipulation, a central banking authority, borrowing money for:

Publics works projects, and militarism;
Large boards of  planners and manager, etc created at a central government level to regulate industry and labor;
the loss of states rights; states rights are where the democracy is.  When the federal government can bully states, the states citizens who vote for laws no longer have democracy.  I.E, medical marijuana laws--states voters vote on them, the central authority stops them.  they've lost their democratic vote.

one of my favorites: "In its day (the 1920s and 1930s), fascism was seen as the happy medium between boom-and-bust-prone liberal capitalism, with its alleged class conflict, wasteful competition, and profit-oriented egoism, and revolutionary Marxism, with its violent and socially divisive persecution of the bourgeoisie."

notice how pointedly Facism is seen as the alternative to 'profit' 'capitalism' 'competition', etc.

facism seeks to control the economy:  Private corporations are allowed, but are favored by the government:  'Green Energy Companies' over 'Big Oil' --classic example.  'Or deciding that car companies get bailouts. 

"Levels of consumption were dictated by the state, and “excess” incomes had to be surrendered as taxes or “loans.” The consequent burdening of manufacturers gave advantages to foreign firms wishing to export. "  Now where have I heard that before...hmmmm...

The goal is a central government, not the states, controlling every aspect of the economy, including wages, who can do what, production--everything.

As for free speech, I've heard a lot of people calling for 'conservative talk radio' to be shut down, or interesting bills like 'the fairness doctrine' which is a thinly disguised way to try and put a muzzle on the media.

Just read it, read the article, you will see.  thats the direction the US is going--and it isn't free market capitalism anymore, and hasn't been for a long time.  THAT IS WHY THE US ECONOMY IS SO FUCKED UP. 

link:  http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html

one other gem out of this article:  "In the United States, beginning in 1933, the constellation of government interventions known as the New Deal had features suggestive of the corporate state. The National Industrial Recovery Act created code authorities and codes of practice that governed all aspects of manufacturing and commerce."  Started by whom?  Liberal, FDR.  Of course nowadays the right is just as bad, they just lean more to the right and favor different companies. 

By the way, in Native americans a friend or family took care of the disabled, old etc.  Not the tribal council.




I DID read the page, and I told you, that page is describing how fascist countries have dictated their economy. Scholars such as Payne argue that while fascist economies have been historically similar to each other, there is no separate fascist economic definition.

As I said, that page is not describing an economic term. It is describing how fascist economies operate. You really need to learn how to read the information on the page (as I mentioned, the fact that Nazi Germany and Mussolini were their examples should have been your biggest clue). Simply because it was on econlib doesn't mean it's a separate economic term that economist use. It's saying something completely different from what you think it's saying.

I couldn't find that 1993 comment in that article. Where is that from? Clearly not that page.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16071072 - 04/10/12 06:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:


Quote:

False.  AllReagan did was end federal funding for asylums.  Why do you think the federal government is and must be the source of all funding?




Ummmm, the closing of the asylums is the secondary byproduct that resulted because of the end of funding for asylums. Naturally, once asylums lacked the funding, they could no longer afford to continue operating, and forced themselves to close.

Read the "Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test" by Tom Wolfe he clearly states this in the book.




Once again you seem to be utterly incapable of grasping that the federal government isn't the only government. 
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/02/nyregion/02mental.html

Quote:

New York State must begin moving thousands of people with mental illness into their own apartments or small homes and out of large, institutional adult homes that keep them segregated from society, a federal judge ordered on Monday.




This was the second downsizing to eliminate "warehousing" of the insane as a result of a court meddling.


--------------------


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16071704 - 04/10/12 08:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Once again you seem to be utterly incapable of grasping that the federal government isn't the only government. 




ONCE AGAIN, you don't seem to realize that I'm correcting your false assumption that it was the "libruls" who closed the asylums all over the country.


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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16071885 - 04/10/12 08:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

IT wasn't 1993 it was 1933:  "In the United States, beginning in 1933, the constellation of government interventions known as the New Deal had features suggestive of the corporate state. The National Industrial Recovery Act created code authorities and codes of practice that governed all aspects of manufacturing and commerce."

And I agree with you in some respects, crystal; but as Paxton points out, fascism is the end result of a liberal type democracy trying to combat authoritarian types change brought about by conservatives.  The problem lies in the two party system, for example things such as the patriot act, drug wars, asset forfeiture, etc, which are supposedly opposed by the left, yet the democrats hold their nose and vote for them.  Why?  To compromise enough so they can benefit also from those policies, and implement their set of ideals to check the right.

the result is the destruction of the original democracy, from compromise and gridlock, and the implementation of a fascist state that lies between democracy and hard socialism. 

Mussolini's Fascism was different than germany's.  they had jews involved and there wasnt the prosecution as germany (at least early on) and they also made a point for gender equality.  they were less militant than germany but still militant.  I.E. they were a liberal type fascism.

Germany, the practiced blatant racism and hate of the jewish religion, and extreme militarism I.E. conservative fascism.

In the end both lose.  That is the point of Paxton.  you can't just look at one aspect of fascism from a static viewpoint.  You have to understand the dynamic change that is brought about when you have a 'two party system' and they have to compromise to meet their extreme agendas. And you can look at the original article and see the embedded features of fascism in the US Economy, brought about by both liberal and conservative ideologies. 

Paxton:  http://www.mind-media.com/nph-proxy.cgi/40/http/web.me.com/clubcarp/GermanyLearningPursuit/Resources_files/Five=2520Stages=2520of=2520Fascism=2520article.pdf

From a more historical perspective vice economic.  And Paxton was a Liberal as far as I know. 

The key point is, Fascism is the result of liberalism trying to compromise to prevent the complete implementation of authoritarian conservatism--neither of which is good for the US.


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: Crystal G]
    #16072152 - 04/10/12 09:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Once again you seem to be utterly incapable of grasping that the federal government isn't the only government. 




ONCE AGAIN, you don't seem to realize that I'm correcting your false assumption that it was the "libruls" who closed the asylums all over the country.




I said the courts did it.


--------------------


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InvisibleAmphibolos
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Re: Use Birth Control? You're FIRED, WHORE!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16079194 - 04/12/12 10:39 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You guys seem to have a nice country :grin:


And Crystal, you should stop arguing with them and emigrate in Québec!

For the others, i cant argue with you guys because my english is hardly understandable. However, i can read what you wrote and i hope that you dont represent the opinion of the majority of the population...


--------------------


"Homo sum ; humani nihil a me alienum puto"


Edited by Amphibolos (04/12/12 07:09 PM)


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