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deff
just love everyone



Registered: 05/01/04
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Re: What is an AWAKENED mind? [Re: Chronic7]
#16039297 - 04/03/12 04:50 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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The Chronic said: In order to awaken we have to shake of our own idealogy (not saying icelander hasn't) Even the ideaology of having no ideaology should be shaken off And even 'shaking off' should be left aside And even the act of 'leaving aside' should be discarded
i like this
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: What is an AWAKENED mind? [Re: deff]
#16039305 - 04/03/12 04:52 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



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Re: What is an AWAKENED mind? [Re: Hobozen]
#16040615 - 04/03/12 09:20 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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blankk said:
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oojijimoo said: So an awakened mind means there are no limits to how deeply you can think, how often you can think, or even how confused and scatterbrained you can get.
to say you know what an awakened mind means seems to imply or give the impression that you yourself have an awakened mind. be careful with that. the same goes with anyone giving the impression of knowing what an awakened mind means. with all this "based" talk and idolizing gangster rappers, it's an obvious contradiction oojijimoo, though I'm sure you're just fucking around. if not then wake up 
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



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Re: What is an AWAKENED mind? [Re: deff]
#16041013 - 04/03/12 10:47 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said:
Quote:
The Chronic said: In order to awaken we have to shake of our own idealogy (not saying icelander hasn't) Even the ideaology of having no ideaology should be shaken off And even 'shaking off' should be left aside And even the act of 'leaving aside' should be discarded
i like this 
Me too. It reminds me of a process that has occurred to me on several psychedelic trips. You keep basically doing this with thoughts over and over again (with the duration in between them being shorter and shorter), almost like a circular spiral closing in on itself...
During one trip on MDMA I referred to it as, "Spiraling into Infinity." I could feel this process that Chronic has described with thoughts... each one becomes shorter than the last until you're left with a stupor of thought and nothing but what you are feeling/observing right NOW. It's pretty trippy and rather cool.
Anyway, my two cents. Hope it helps. ^^;;
-V
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Jessica Swift
यन्त्र



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Re: What is an AWAKENED mind? [Re: Vahn421]
#16041679 - 04/04/12 04:17 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think even the idea of being 'awakened' is an amorphous, and ever-changing idea. So I guess I agree with Chronic's mentioning that all concepts should be abandoned - though I'm not sure the brain is capable of awareness without embodying form. "Even emptiness is still form" as the mantra goes.
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Hobozen

Registered: 11/03/11
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even if there is understanding that all concepts should be abandoned, there is still that subconscious devil within that holds onto those concepts (thoughts, belief system, self-image, self-importance). the question is, how do we bring these subconscious processes into awareness. simple daily meditation might not cut it in this world. my guess is long ass retreats (10 days - 3 months) sitting 10+ hours a day where there's the possibility of self-image completely breaking down similar to a high dose psychedelic experience/ego loss. that and high dosing/ego loss with psychedelics. all of these combined with daily meditation would be my best bet. though I don't believe psychedelics are necessary if the ego is able to break down during a retreat.
Edited by Hobozen (04/04/12 12:56 PM)
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: What is an AWAKENED mind? [Re: Hobozen]
#16043163 - 04/04/12 01:12 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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blankk said: even if there is understanding that all concepts should be abandoned, there is still that subconscious devil within that holds onto those concepts (thoughts, belief system, self-image, self-importance). the question is, how do we bring these subconscious processes into awareness. simple daily meditation might not cut it in this world. my guess is long ass retreats (10 days - 3 months) sitting 10+ hours a day where there's the possibility of self-image completely breaking down similar to a high dose psychedelic experience/ego loss. that and high dosing/ego loss with psychedelics. all of these combined with daily meditation would be my best bet. though I don't believe psychedelics are necessary if the ego is able to break down during a retreat.
retreats, psychedelics, time for meditation are all good, but its also good to remind yourself of what they are actually for pretty much everyone that has awakened has said in some way 'you are it'
so we can comprehend that we have to abandon all concepts about what we are & just exist as whatever we are but this kind of understanding has to be brought into the heart of awareness, ourself understanding ourselves can't be learned only intellectually, its experiential like swimming it has to be understanding
which means you always stand beyond whatever is being understood just understanding the nature of what we are, by being that awareness, only now free from the tyranny of identity & belief in concepts
we can bring subconscious processes into our minds for a long long time, theres a lot of stuff in there our only duty imo is to be self-aware
its not that we have to excorcise all subconscious activity one by one only keep the attention as awareness over & over until your sense of being no longer feels touched by attention the former is trimming a plant & having it grow back stronger, the latter is uprooting it we can't pay attention to all these subconscious processes, well we can if we would like to pay a therapist at the same time
i still like retreats, psychedelics & meditation myself, but what are they for?
what are they for?
someone answer it please...
Edited by Chronic7 (04/04/12 01:21 PM)
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Hobozen

Registered: 11/03/11
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Re: What is an AWAKENED mind? [Re: Chronic7]
#16043294 - 04/04/12 01:39 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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we can't pay attention to all these subconscious processes, well we can if we would like to pay a therapist at the same time
hmm, you seem to have missed what I was saying to an extent and added some extra non relative stuff in there.
listen!
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what are they for?
opening the ears, for one.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
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Re: What is an AWAKENED mind? [Re: Hobozen]
#16043742 - 04/04/12 03:20 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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I went to a 10 day vipassana retreat and it was pretty much a brainwash cult, it's an experience I wouldn't repeat. IMO violent practices like that make you desperate and attached to the idea that something else must be, which is far away from chilling out and allowing it all.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Hobozen

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Re: What is an AWAKENED mind? [Re: Grapefruit]
#16043833 - 04/04/12 03:39 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've been to one as well, maybe it's different here because it definitely wasn't cult like. There was no talking allowed until the last day. It's was mostly quiet for 10 days with hardly any imposition of beliefs. It could be seen as violent, or "destruction breeds creation". Hard psychedelic experiences could be considered violent, and sometimes they are, but that sort of fierce breaking down of one's filters is necessary, for my own experience at least.
Edited by Hobozen (04/04/12 03:46 PM)
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: What is an AWAKENED mind? [Re: Hobozen]
#16046144 - 04/05/12 12:58 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
blankk said:
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we can't pay attention to all these subconscious processes, well we can if we would like to pay a therapist at the same time
hmm, you seem to have missed what I was saying to an extent
listen!
i didn't miss what you were saying
'there is still that subconscious devil within that holds onto those concepts (thoughts, belief system, self-image, self-importance). the question is, how do we bring these subconscious processes into awareness.'
awakening is not bringing subconscious processes into awareness, its just being self-aware until those processes lose power paying attention to them, being aware of them, gives them power
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and added some extra non relative stuff in there.
my reply wasn't just to you it was to the forum ie don't take it personally
you say in your post it is your 'best bet', so you admit it is speculative... based in thoughts, belief, self-image the very things you describe as the devil within us and i agree
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Edited by Chronic7 (04/05/12 01:10 AM)
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Hobozen

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Re: What is an AWAKENED mind? [Re: Chronic7]
#16047281 - 04/05/12 11:17 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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The Chronic said: paying attention to them, being aware of them, gives them power
this isn't true in Vipassana practice. for example when sitting for a long time, repressed emotions will surface into consciousness, and this is coming from the subconscious. what's taught is to pay attention to the emotion until it fades, then it can be seen as an impermanent process of the body/mind. my point was not to pay attention to the subconscious activity, as that is impossible IMO, but sort of like you said, "being self-aware until those processes lose power". I think we're along similar lines.
Quote:
you say in your post it is your 'best bet', so you admit it is speculative... based in thoughts, belief, self-image the very things you describe as the devil within us and i agree
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: What is an AWAKENED mind? [Re: Hobozen]
#16047435 - 04/05/12 11:52 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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yeah, i think there is an intuitive aspect of consciousness that knows when to become aware of phenomena and when to not be... some things do need looking at in order to transcend them, but many things don't
its all really one big joke
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Hobozen

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Re: What is an AWAKENED mind? [Re: Chronic7]
#16047612 - 04/05/12 12:29 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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The Chronic said:

yeah, i think there is an intuitive aspect of consciousness that knows when to become aware of phenomena and when to not be... some things do need looking at in order to transcend them, but many things don't
I'm not disagreeing here, just interested in what you have to say further on the matter. When is it that this aspect of consciousness knows when not to be aware of phenomena?
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: What is an AWAKENED mind? [Re: Hobozen]
#16047657 - 04/05/12 12:38 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
blankk said:
Quote:
The Chronic said:

yeah, i think there is an intuitive aspect of consciousness that knows when to become aware of phenomena and when to not be... some things do need looking at in order to transcend them, but many things don't
I'm not disagreeing here, just interested in what you have to say further on the matter. When is it that this aspect of consciousness knows when not to be aware of phenomena?
Good question...
'When is it that this aspect of consciousness knows when not to be aware of phenomena?'
When through meditation, or contemplation, there is no longer anything seen as phenomena When i say 'not aware of phenomena' i don't mean ignoring appearances, i mean not seeing them as separate from yourself Like if you are aware of everything as yourself, then there is no such thing as 'phenomena' because no thing can be separate or outside what you are
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Hobozen

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Re: What is an AWAKENED mind? [Re: Chronic7]
#16047791 - 04/05/12 12:56 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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got ya.
which goes back to my original posts, where I stated the importance of the breakdown of one's filters, or ego loss in other words. having the thought process fade into the moment, losing memory of the past, having the feeling of consciousness expanding out of the body. this all has to do with what you just said.
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Hobozen

Registered: 11/03/11
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Re: What is an AWAKENED mind? [Re: Hobozen]
#16047916 - 04/05/12 01:16 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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"They say there are black holes in existence. If a star comes by chance to a black hole, it is pulled into it; there is no way to resist that pull, and to go into the black hole is to go into destruction. We don't know what happens on the other side. My idea, for which some physicist has to find evidence, is that the black hole on this side is a white hole on the other side. The hole cannot be just one side; it is a tunnel. I have experienced it in myself. Perhaps on a bigger scale the same happens in the universe. The star dies; as far as we can see, it disappears. But every moment new stars are being born. From where? Where is their womb? It is simple arithmetic that the black hole is just a womb--the old disappears into it and the new is born.
This I have experienced in myself--I am not a physicist. That one year of tremendous pull drew me farther and farther away from people, so much so that I would not recognize my own mother, I might not recognize my own father; there were times I forgot my own name. I tried hard, but there was no way to find what my name used to be. Naturally, to everybody else during that one year I was mad. But to me that madness became meditation, and the peak of that madness opened the door."
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Hobozen

Registered: 11/03/11
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Re: What is an AWAKENED mind? [Re: Hobozen]
#16047992 - 04/05/12 01:34 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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"For one year I was in such a state that it was almost impossible to know what was happening. For one year continuously it was even difficult to keep myself alive. Just to keep myself alive was a very difficult thing--because all appetite disappeared. Days would pass and I would not feel any hunger; days would pass and I would not feel any thirst. I had to force myself to eat, force myself to drink. The body was so nonexistential that I had to hurt myself to feel that I was still in the body. I had to knock my head against the wall to feel whether my head was still there or not. Only when it hurt would I be a little in the body.
Every morning and every evening I would run for five to eight miles. People used to think that I was mad. Why was I running so much? Sixteen miles a day! It was just to feel myself, to feel that I still existed, not to lose contact with myself--just to wait until my eyes became attuned to the new that was happening.
And I had to keep myself close to myself. I would not talk to anybody because everything had become so inconsistent that even to formulate one sentence was difficult. In the middle of the sentence I would forget what I was saying. In the middle of the road I would forget where I was going. Then I would have to come back. I would read a book--I would read fifty pages and then suddenly I would realize, "What am I reading? I don't remember at all." My situation was such...
The door of the psychiatrist's office burst open and a man rushed in. "Doctor!" he cried. "You've got to help me. I'm sure I'm losing my mind. I can't remember anything---what happened a year ago, or even what happened yesterday. I must be going crazy!" "Hmm," pondered the shrink. "Just when did you first become aware of this problem?" The man looked puzzled. "What problem?"
...
Now it was beyond me; it was happening. I had done something; unknowingly I had knocked at the door, now the door had opened. I had been meditating for many years, just sitting silently doing nothing, and by and by I started getting into that space where you are, and you are not doing anything; you are simply there, a presence, a watcher.
You are not even a watcher because you are not watching---you are just a presence. Words are not adequate because whatsoever word is used, it seems as if it is being done.
No I was not doing it. I was simply lying, sitting, walking--deep down there was no doer. I had lost all ambition; there was no desire to be anybody, no desire to reach. I was simply thrown into myself. It was an emptiness, and emptiness drives one crazy. But emptiness is the only door to God. That means that only those who are ready to go mad ever attain, nobody else."
"It was an emptiness, and emptiness drives one crazy."
"samsara" by David Ho
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
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Re: What is an AWAKENED mind? [Re: Hobozen]
#16051064 - 04/06/12 12:57 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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i think my mind has been awakened since birth, now i have to learn how to truly harness it
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head


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Re: What is an AWAKENED mind? [Re: g00ru]
#16051133 - 04/06/12 01:18 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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If you want to realise the greatness inherent in life as it is on our planet at the moment, from nature to the metropolis, forget that you are awakened. Let the way your body moves in each joyful stride and your smile and tone of voice show you're free... and let that be the end of it, don't say or think anything else on the topic, it will only make you a dogmatist.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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