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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind
    #1602984 - 06/02/03 11:31 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

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OfflineGrav
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Re: Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind [Re: World Spirit]
    #1602996 - 06/02/03 11:35 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Man I haven't ever known what the fuck Im babbling about when conversing with all those people...


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Offlinenubious
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Re: Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind [Re: Grav]
    #1603016 - 06/02/03 11:44 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

When you have a child, do you leave the child lost in a forest? Do you ignore the child when it cries for your help? Some people do, and those people are bad parents.


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
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Re: Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind [Re: World Spirit]
    #1603038 - 06/02/03 11:52 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

When I was in 10th grade, a friend of mine influenced me to attend a religious retreat designed to introduce "non-believers" to Christianity.  The retreat brainwashed me, in a sense.  After attending it, I was what some people might call a "born-again Christian," although I had never been a Christian prior to this.

Anyway... For about a year after the retreat I had a deep faith in the Christian sense of God.  I think part of the reason I was so taken by the religion was the fact that I had never formally been introduced to any form of spirituality at all.  My parents had never before taken me to church or even talked about any sort of God.

Another reason I fell for the religion was because of the practice of Prayer.  I capitalize the word because, for me, Prayer was a very powerful thing.  I really felt like I was connected to some sort of Supreme-Being.  It was a great release from the monotony of Me, and after praying I always had a deep sense of hapiness.

After about a year, I had read enough stuff on my own about the Christian religion that I decided it wasn't really for me.  I still think Prayer is a very powerful thing, though, and I still practice it in my own way.

Good post. :smile:

-RebelSteve 


--------------------
Namaste.


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1603081 - 06/03/03 12:09 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind [Re: World Spirit]
    #1603550 - 06/03/03 04:04 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

"Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind"

first tell me where God is and where Mankind is and then I'll measure the distance between them, which is probably "Infinity."


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Re: Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind [Re: World Spirit]
    #1603761 - 06/03/03 07:52 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

En-n-n-ter-r-r............I AM speaking through MY servant MarkostheGnostic.
Place thy foot, Yogic style, back into thine mouth, for the LORD your GOD would'st prefer muffled murmurings of thy Heart, to pretentious poppycock that thou insists upon pontificating. Thus sayeth the LORD +++


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1604184 - 06/03/03 12:21 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind [Re: World Spirit]
    #1605426 - 06/03/03 06:06 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

No-o-o...you're misreading Jungian terminology. "Self" is the word that Jung uses to denote the entire Psyche [soul] of a human being. It is symbolized as a sphere with the Self being paradoxically the Center of the sphere and the entire sphere. This is all metaphor and symbolism of course.

The "ego" is a tiny 'lagoon' on a small 'island' ["consciousness"] on the surface of the sphere of Psyche. Ego-inflation is the case of the average person who believes that [s]he is in control of his/her life, that [s]he is at the very Center of things, instead of a 'leaf in a powerful stream,' as Jung has likened it. The true Center of the Psyche, the Center-Point of the sphere which really exerts the 'organizing principle' of one's life, Jung calls the Self. Furthermore, the Self is the Central Archetype of the entire Collective Psyche [Collective Unconscious], and like a magnet beneath a paper sprinkled with iron filings, arranges the other Archetypes along specific lines of influence.

As the Central Archetype, the Self produces certain Universal themes in the Psyche which represent it. These themes manifest in dreams, fairytales, folklore, and most powerfully in myths. These myths orient humans in the direction of 'meaning,' and have been impressed upon specific personages most powerfully. The greatest manifestations of the Central Archetype of the Self in human history have been the historical Buddha and the historical Christ, in the East and West respectively. Now a Buddhist or a Christian would reverse the interpretation and say that the Jungian Self is a symbol of the Buddha or the Christ. It just depends on which pole one happens to identify with primarily - believer or psychologist. These two points of view, however, are ego's point of view OF the Self, or OF a savior. Likewise, the choice to be a Buddhist or a Christian is in large part a matter of how the Reality of the Self was experienced by a person - through primarily Buddhist-type experiences or primarily Christian-type experiences. There is a part played by conscious choice as well. I for one, have been influenced through both Buddhist and Christian experiences, and so exclusively Buddhist or exclusively Christian doctrines do not contain the totality of my experiences, and I must honor the truths I have discovered in both. My primary identity however, happens to be Christian, as you may know.

When the truths from dual or multiple vectors are recognized AS Truth, the rigid, artificial barriers of doctrine and dogma which serve to separate and isolate one faith from another break down. The antiquated mythological language of early Christianity, with its Father-God somewhere out there in a heaven beyond the 'dome of the stars,' who occasionally breaks into Earthly affairs like the mythological Zeus, who impregnates a female miraculously, like Zeus did as a swan and as a shower of gold-dust (since women were not believed to contribute any of themselves to the creation of a baby - only an incubator for male seed), and who himself appears as a dove (how original), and then who takes flesh to manifest as a Spiritual Hero (like Greek Heros such as Hercules - born of Zeus and a mortal woman)...all this thinking has to go if Christianity will ever survive another millennium. Not only are these elements obviously the mythic language of two millennia ago, such attachment prevents any Christian believer from truly having brotherhood with a believer of any other faith. The imperialistic claim of Christianity to be 'the only way' to God has to go as well - and first! Christian attachment to these myths is as tragic as Jews who stand 'shookeling' and wailing at the Wailing Wall - the last crumbled vestige of The Temple that once defined the entire religion of Judaism. The Temple has been gone since 70 A.D., and still people cling to the empty husk of their still living faith, whose life evades them. The same with the Christian - most poignantly with the pathetic Fundamentalist who takes myth for historical fact. Insistence that the cosmos is 5700+ years old is tantamount to psychosis, to pure delusion. It is no wonder to me why most young people are angered at anyone proclaiming to be a Christian. Most are in error, and many are quite mad.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1607247 - 06/04/03 07:40 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The "Christian religion" is the whole problem. It is 'Being in Christ' that all spiritually-minded people seek, regardless of what they call it or what their faith is. The "Christian religion" is a huge body of mental constructs and constraints that developed around the Christ-experience. What was originally meant to honor, highlight and communicate Christ, turned into a historical nightmare bent on protecting, then enforcing and finally terrorizing believers and non-believers alike. The essential message, meaning and Being of Christ was squeezed out of Christendom and replaced by demonic horror (like burning Giordano Bruno alive for maintaining the truths of Kepler, Copernicus and Galileo, that the sun does not revolve around the Earth.) The stake, witch hunts, Inquisitions, Crusades, exile, misogyny, anti-Semitism, anti-homosexuality (even though there is no Greek word for it, King James had it inserted in his version of the Bible), anti-anything that did not conform to first the Roman Catholic version of God, and then certain Protestant formulations, resulted in horror. No, Christ is not found in religion. Christ must be re-experienced in the immediacy of the here and now, and a whole new vision of Christianity needs to be born.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1607745 - 06/04/03 01:40 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

How about Christianity without the bible, without dogma, without authority, without temples made of brick or stone, without "the right way"?

Religion itself is the "whole problem".
Guidebooks are essentially for those whom cannot or will not think for themselves.
I'm tired of babying those people... especially when they impede my freedom.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1607748 - 06/04/03 01:41 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

truth is people.....there is no distance between you and God. He is your heart.


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Anonymous

Re: Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind [Re: ]
    #1607880 - 06/04/03 02:24 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

This post title is terribly ironic.


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Re: Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind [Re: ]
    #1608163 - 06/04/03 04:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The distance, 0 ft. God is within.


--------------------
Aum Namah Sivaya


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Re: Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind [Re: Sclorch]
    #1608314 - 06/04/03 04:57 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The Bible, and for me many other extra-Biblical Sources such as the collection of Christian Apocrypha (of which only one - the Book of Revelations - was included in the canonical Bible), the Old Testament Pseudepigrapha (which, among other books contains the Books of Enoch), the more-or-less recently discovered (1945) and even more recently translated Nag Hammadi library (containing all kinds of Gnostic Gospels, like the Gospel According to Thomas), some Egyptian/Coptic writings, and others, contain the myths that embody the major themes of human spirituality. I would not want to do without these writings, yet Christians should be entirely free to read and interpret whatever they want, without being forced to conform to a party-line. Early Christians did just this, it was even OK for Constantine for there to be different theological perspectives on a Mystery that defies concretization. Iraeneus and other 'Church Fathers' insisted on doctrine which became dogma never to be questioned, imprisoning and destroying intellectual freedom. The Archetypal images of magick, Watchers (fallen angels), giants, Enoch, who "walked with GOD and was not." [i.e., 'translated' or beamed-up to another plane of existence], mysticism, etc., etc. are all the Middle Earth-like writings from ancient times. This stuff is better than J.R.R. Tolkien at times. If people could lay down their defensiveness and pick up these writings, it is the same fascination that contemporary fantasy elicits - but with deeper connections to the psyche because whatever the authors were thinking, it wasn't mere fantasy they had in mind to convey.

Christianity is not merely an individual practice (I read this just last night as I finished another book by J.S. Spong), but it is an experience of community. I'll not be hypocritical - I don't go to a Church. There isn't a Church I've been to outside of my living room with its Gothic and mythological elements, that I've been comfortable in. The Church as the Mystical Body of Christ is a community of souls all over the planet - even some at the Shroomery - who also reject the dead doctrines of an archaic past, but do not know what to replace them with. Many of us have developed some kinds of rituals surrounding mushroom use, for example. Though unavoidably cultist in flavor, it is no different than the Peyote Medicine of the Native American Church being considered as the Eucharistic Body of Christ. We finish an entheogenic evening with a feast, but Bread and Wine begin the feast (agapic love feast) "...in memory of Me [Jesus]." For us, Jesus IS "The Way" into Eternal Life, not in the traditional 'cleansed in the Blood of the Lamb' theology, but more like the Jesus in The Gnostic Gospel of Thomas: "...lift a stone, and I AM there; cleave a piece of wood, and I AM there..." So for us, Christ means the Presence of the Eternal Present. Our's is a Realized Eschatology. God is Present and accounted for - and available to one's awareness when one 'Knows The Way [to Be].'

My Freedom has been enhanced immeasurably by these sacred things, not impeded at all. When you launch a rocket, you WANT a guidance system; when you push off your bobsled, you WANT certain defining limits to the path you travel [you don't want to leave the track]. Railroad tracks do not impede the train, unless you believe that trains should fly as well!


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind [Re: Sclorch]
    #1609748 - 06/05/03 01:15 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The whole problem with christianity (I was raised roman catholic, went to roman catholic school for 12 years, and church nearly every week) is that Someone had the audacity to pronounce that there is only one god above all else.

Look what happened to Akhenaten after his death. The idea of monothism is very arrogant. But, what you believe is what is, it's just a piece of the whole big picture.

And the distance between All That Is is both infinitely small as well as infinitely large, at the same time.


--------------------
Study the past...
See the future...


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind [Re: Cougheeman]
    #1610135 - 06/05/03 03:27 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)


The distance, 0 ft. God is within.

You took the words right outta my mouth!  :shocked:


:wink:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind [Re: Olgualion]
    #1610140 - 06/05/03 03:29 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Markos: For us, Jesus IS "The Way" into Eternal Life, not in the traditional 'cleansed in the Blood of the Lamb' theology, but more like the Jesus in The Gnostic Gospel of Thomas: "...lift a stone, and I AM there; cleave a piece of wood, and I AM there..." So for us, Christ means the Presence of the Eternal Present. Our's is a Realized Eschatology. God is Present and accounted for - and available to one's awareness when one 'Knows The Way [to Be].'

Maybe one christian in 10,000 shares this perspective with you.
I think this minority can get along just fine without a guidebook.

My Freedom has been enhanced immeasurably by these sacred things, not impeded at all. When you launch a rocket, you WANT a guidance system; when you push off your bobsled, you WANT certain defining limits to the path you travel [you don't want to leave the track]. Railroad tracks do not impede the train, unless you believe that trains should fly as well!

YOUR freedom.... YOURS.
I'm talking about the assholes who bomb abortion clinics, assholes who scream at people from soapboxes, assholes who thump their bible and think they can fill their god's shoes by judging others, etc. Yeah, THOSE are the people that impede MY freedom. THOSE are the people that shouldn't have the luxury of being able to point to some holy guidebook for justification of their egocentric word and deed.
Markos, you're not one of these people... you don't NEED a guidebook... such an elimination wouldn't hurt you a bit (hypothetical of course... such a mass book-burning would never happen, if only for fear of blocking out the sun with a veil of smoke).


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind [Re: Sclorch]
    #1610210 - 06/05/03 03:52 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)


Bre?a

My reflection wraps and pulls me under
healing waters to be bathed in
bre?a guides me safely in worlds i've never been
to heal me heal me my dear bre?a
so vulnerable but it's all right
heal me heal me my dear bre?a
show me lonely and show me openings
to lead me closer to you my dear bre?a
so vulnerable but it's all right
opening to heal


(APC)


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Re: Measuring the Distance Between God & Mankind [Re: Sclorch]
    #1610730 - 06/05/03 07:56 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I don't know the percentages of what people believe, but I'm certain you are right about small numbers. I am a 'psychedelic saint,' which is to say (since all believers in the NT are called saints, not just those recognized post mortem by the RC Church) that I came to my belief with the assistance of psychedelics - (psyche-mind, delos-clear). Like a crude piece of quartz that had been polished down to resonate at a precise frequency, acid honed down most of the barnacle-like bulls**t that encrusted my 'clear mind' until I too could resonate at a precise frequency. THAT frquency, so to speak, is the Eternal Present. It is comforting, which is why the NT calls it "the Comforter," one of the Names for the "Holy Spirit," which is another reference to God. Another Holy Name for this is "Wonderful Counselor," but Tertullian managed to put together Father, Son and Holy Spirit [or Ghost] in the Trinitarian formula, which is interesting if one doesn't take the whole thing too seriously.

The entire Bible is an important record of spiritual history, not historical accuracy. The wonderful stories about Jesus model for us the highest level of human development. Talking with a Samaritan woman in 1st century Judea was so radical! Jews would walk an extra couple of days to avoid the Samaritans on the way to Jerusalem, so loathsome were these people to them. Jesus sat with and drank water with a Samaritan - with a woman no less, and this was just not done in private - it was scandalous! The forgiving of a woman taken in adultery, where the males wanted to stone her to death, and Jesus allegedly stooped down to write in the sand (often assumed to be sins that He perceived in each male) and then said "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone," is Genius!!! Jesus probably never did all of that, but the males, convicted by their own consciences, dropped their stones and walked away, illustrating inward, self-judgement rather than judgement from an external, legalistic source. The profile of Wisdom, and of Compassion for the adulteress, whom Jesus dismisses with the words "Go, and sin no more," is one of my favorite Biblical 'insertions,' and has taught me more about 'how to BE,' than years of life-experience, school, books, teachers, parents or earthly role models. Don't tell me I don't need a guide book, because these few words that I quoted to you gave Whole New Meaning to how psychedelic awareness should be manifested in my personal life. Peace.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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