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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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School vouchers
    #1602861 - 06/02/03 10:48 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Does anyone here have a problem with them?

They seem like a good idea to me, can't see any down side.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: School vouchers [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1603100 - 06/03/03 12:16 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

When private institutions accept funds from the government, controls are soon to follow. Vouchers will undermine the independence of private schools that accept them and may lead to the same 'dumbing down' effects that plague our public schools and the wasting of valuable education resources on social engineering projects and will have a negative impact on religious instruction in private schools that attempt to practice it while accepting a deal with the devil. Conservatives and Libertarians who advocate them are inviting trouble in the long run. The public schools are the greatest institutions of indoctrination for the state, bringing 'market socialism' to our private education institutions is worse than corporate welfare.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisible1stimer
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Re: School vouchers [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1603156 - 06/03/03 12:34 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

i think vouchers are just a way of depriving inner city schools of funding causing minorities to have even less education while the rich get richer.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: School vouchers [Re: 1stimer]
    #1603179 - 06/03/03 12:40 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I think you couldn't be more wrong. The advocates of vouchers are fed up with the terrible job being done by public education and the wasting of young minds and lives that results from years of indoctrination and baby sitting being passed off as education.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: School vouchers [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1603731 - 06/03/03 07:07 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I'd be for vouchers if the government is NOT allowed to tell people what to teach or how to spend the voucher.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: School vouchers [Re: 1stimer]
    #1603732 - 06/03/03 07:08 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

i think vouchers are just a way of depriving inner city schools of funding causing minorities to have even less education while the rich get richer. 




then why do minorities and inner cities support vouchers? i really want to hear your response. :smirk:


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: School vouchers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1603965 - 06/03/03 10:57 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I'd be for vouchers if the government is NOT allowed to tell people what to teach or how to spend the voucher.





Agreed. If people want their kids taught religion in school (or whatever) then I have no problem in allowing them to spend their tax dollars on a private religeous school.

I don't think they should be given the full amount of the average cost to educate a child. For example, if it costs $3000 to educate one child for one year, then they should recieve a voucher for, say, $2250. That would theoretically leave the public schools with more money per student.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: School vouchers [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1603997 - 06/03/03 11:19 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

That would theoretically leave the public schools with more money per student




Why are people saying this? Public schools get more per student than public and private schools. It's well known. I think they call it irony.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: School vouchers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1604008 - 06/03/03 11:26 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Did you mean to say that public schools get more per student than private schools?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: School vouchers [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1604010 - 06/03/03 11:27 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Yes I did.

The national average cost per student of public schools was $6,857. This was 120% higher than $3,116 for private schools, and 215% higher than $2,178 for catholic schools. (CATO Institute/U.S. Dept. of Education Digest of Education Statistics 1995)....and home schooling isn't even listed.....

Public School Vs. Private - The Current Education System is Failing Our Children


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (06/03/03 11:38 AM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: School vouchers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1604139 - 06/03/03 12:03 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

That looks more like cost rather than price. If so, then there would be an additional amount paid by the parent(s) in the form of proffit made by the private school.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: School vouchers [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1604183 - 06/03/03 12:21 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

That includes any profit obtained by the private school.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: School vouchers [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1604210 - 06/03/03 12:32 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

no it is the price per student. Not all private schools are 25k a year. How do home schooled children fit into this equation? Their test scores are even higher. The problem is with the teachers, administration, and gross mismanagement of funds.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (06/03/03 12:33 PM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: School vouchers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1604236 - 06/03/03 12:42 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Home schooling requires competent parent(s) or a tutor, does it not? I know nearly nothing about home schooling.

What is the current status of "vouchers" is it dead in the water, or are they still talking about it?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: School vouchers [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1604267 - 06/03/03 12:55 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Home schooling requires competent parent(s) or a tutor




Parent yes, tutor sometimes, depending on need for help on a subject. (anyone with a high school degree can home school)

Quote:

I know nearly nothing about home schooling




My sister home schools her kids and their test scores are always above the public school average, bright kids.

Quote:

What is the current status of "vouchers" is it dead in the water, or are they still talking about it?




They do what they always do....talk. The libbies are using the argument you had at the beginning of this thread (inner city kids will lose out..yadda, yadda, yadda) Inner city parents support vouchers because the curruption in their public schools, incompatent teachers (protected by the the union) and poor classroom conditions Detroit public schools being a great example.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineSolo
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Re: School vouchers [Re: 1stimer]
    #1604276 - 06/03/03 12:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

i think vouchers are just a way of depriving inner city schools of funding causing minorities to have even less education while the rich get richer.




Your post seems to imply that all minorities are poor and all white people are rich. Why didn't you say 'causing poor to have less education while rich get richer...'?


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: School vouchers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1604294 - 06/03/03 01:05 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

How do you feel about paying welfare mothers $10,000 a year to home school their 4 kids?  :smirk:


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: School vouchers [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1604350 - 06/03/03 01:28 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

How do you feel about paying welfare mothers $10,000 a year to home school their 4 kids?




I know you're being sarcastic but since i don't believe in welfare (in its present form) i'd have to say no.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: School vouchers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1604439 - 06/03/03 01:54 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Actually, I wasn't being sarcastic.

Let me rephrase the question:

How do you feel about paying mothers (or fathers)$10,000 a year to home school their 4 kids?

This would of course include people who are currently on welfare, and in some cases could in whole or in part replace the welfare checks.

This is all assuming that they at least meet required standards, and said standards are kept reasonably high.

I imagine this would result in an explosion of mothers staying at home with their kids. Something that should make some of the older politicians wet their pants. (Waiting for rimshot)


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OfflineStopThat
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Re: School vouchers [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1604452 - 06/03/03 01:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Personally I would like to see a proposal of how much the government wants to give,and how much private schools charge,from low to high.
Seems like its just giving a little something extra to the folks who were going to put their kids in private school anyway.


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