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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
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1969 Discussion about aids
    #1598907 - 06/01/03 07:17 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I posted this in another thread in response to something completely off of this subject, 90% of biological agents used today are released in some form on 3rd world and developing countries, some are released into large populations.

The SARS, AIDS, Ebola and what ever other disease and immunology robbing virri that are poping up today arent unknown, they are a product of this discussion, the reason they are being released on the public is to:
1. Guage the publics response at handling the issue
2. To Distract people from other issues
3. To move money. take cash from one cause that might hamper efforts of those in power
4. To find an effective means of eliminating a population
5. To Guage the paranoia level of populations
6....too many other reasons to list....

This is transcribed from a hearing in 1969 for the fiscal year of 1970 between
Congressman Sikes, Florida and Dr MacArthur, micro-biologist.

For reference, see:


HEARINGS
before a
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
NINETY-FIRST CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION

The topic is Synthetic Biological Agents

There are two things about the biological agent field I would like to
mention. One is the possibility of technological surprise. Molecular
biology is a field that is advancing very rapidly, and eminent biologists
believe that within a period of 5 to 10 years it would be possible to produce
a synthetic biological agent, an agent that does not naturally exist and for
which no natural immunity could have been acquired.

Mr. Sikes: Are we doing any work in that field?
Dr. MacArthur: We are not.
Mr. Sikes: Why not? Lack of money or lack of interest?
Dr. MacArthur: Certainly not lack of interest.
Mr. Sikes: Would you provide for our records information on what would
be required, what the advantages of such a program would be,
the time and the cost involved?
Dr. MacArthur: We will be very happy to.
(The information follows:)

The dramatic progress being made in the field of molecular biology led us to
investigate the relevance of this field of science to biological warfare. A
small group of experts considered this matter and provided the following
obser-vations:

1. All biological agents up to the present time are representatives of
naturally occurring disease, and are thus known by scientists throughout the
world. They are easily available to qualified scientists for research, either
for offensive or defensive purposes.

2. Within the next 5 to 10 years, it would probably be possible to
make a new infective microorganism which could differ in certain important
aspects from any known disease-causing organisius. Most important of these is
that it might be refractory to the immunological and therapeutic processes upon
which we depend to maintain our relative freedom from infectious disease.

3. A research program to explore the feasibility of this could be
completed approximately 5 years at a total cost of $10 million.

4. It would be very difficult to establish such a program. Molecular
biology is a relatively new science. There are not many highly competent
scientists in the field, almost all are in university laboratories, and they
are generally adequately supported from sources other than DOD. However, it
was considered possible to initiate an adequate program through the National
Academy of Sciences-National Research Council (NAS-NRC). The matter was
discussed with the NAS-NRC, and tentative plans were madeto initiate the
program. However, decreasing funds in CB, growing criticism of the CB program,
and our reluctance to involve the NAS-NRC, in such a controversial endeavor
have led us to postpone it for the past 2 years. It is highly controversial
issue, and there are many who believe such research should not be undertaken
lest it lead to yet another method of massive killing of large populations.
On the other hand, without the sure scientific knowledge that such a weapon
is possible, and an understanding of the ways it could be done, there is
little that can be done to devise defensive measures should an enemy develop
it. There is little doubt that this is an important area of potential military
technological inferiority in which there is no adequate research program.



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OfflinePhluck
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Re: 1969 Discussion about aids [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #1600791 - 06/02/03 09:14 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Dude, you're mistaken. Diseases like SARS and Ebola pop up all the time, even long before we had the technology to create biological weapons. First of all, SARS isn't even really special. It's just a really nasty cold, with a 7% mortality rate, meaning you'll probably be fine after about a week if you're not old or sickly. Ebola is a lot nastier, but not weird per se. Strange diseases are just the way things are.

Some people accuse the government, or secret organizations, or aliens, or strange reptile beings who are secretly infiltrating humanity of releasing these diseases on the public. Just like hundreds of years ago people believed their diseases were sent by God, the Devil, or evil ghosts and demons.

It's a paranoid fantasy. Why is it just a paranoid fantasy, you ask?

Because there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER DEMONSTRATING THAT THERE IS A CONSPIRACY BEHIND THESE DISEASES.

The people who try to spread their paranoid fantasies around claim to have evidence. They all have "proof". The problem here is a lack of decent education. These people don't have a fucking clue what proof and evidence really are, as you pointed out clearly in this thread by posting a discussion on biological weapons.

This is not evidence that SARS, AIDS, and Ebola are government made diseases. There is no information in that document that suggests this to be the case. They don't say anything about testing it on the public either.

What this document is evidence of, is that the government has done research on biological weapons. That is all it is evidence of.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Edited by Evolving (06/03/03 05:24 PM)


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: 1969 Discussion about aids [Re: Phluck]
    #1602099 - 06/02/03 06:46 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Misquitos
the reason they are being released on the public is to:
1. Guage the publics response at handling the issue
2. Obtain secret DNA of every civilian in an indetectable manner
3. Distract and annoy from the real issues
4. Provide a satisfing consuming itch that uses up the victoms time and mental energy
5. Provide a monopoly for "OFF" brand mosquito repelant
6. many more insiduous diabolical uses...

:tongue: :tongue: :tongue:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineJohnnyRespect
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Re: 1969 Discussion about aids [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1602114 - 06/02/03 06:52 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

This is that wonderful post where Dr Frankenstein discusses "making biological entities". YOU CANNOT MAKE LIFE You can modify the genetics of current organisms, you can clone current existing organisms, but to date, you CANNOT simply say "I'd like a virus that does X Y and Z", mix up the X Y and Z chemicals, and have it pop out.


--------------------
As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!


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OfflineWaveRider
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Re: 1969 Discussion about aids [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1605222 - 06/03/03 05:16 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

This is that wonderful post where Dr Frankenstein discusses "making biological entities". YOU CANNOT MAKE LIFE You can modify the genetics of current organisms, you can clone current existing organisms, but to date, you CANNOT simply say "I'd like a virus that does X Y and Z", mix up the X Y and Z chemicals, and have it pop out.




I see that you know very little about scientific development in the genetic field. It is possible to engineer NEW species from the recombination of genes, meaning it is possible to breed a new bacteria by recombinition the genetic make up of one or more already existing species. It is also possible to mix DNA in simple organism. So even thought it is not possible, at this time, for us to create a new mammal species, it is possible to create a new bacteria or virus.

As for the possibility of complex diseases, such as SARS and EBOLA, being manufactured, I would have to say it is possible. Especially when the virus and/or bacteria is so complex as AIDS (which attacks only the immune system, perticularly white blood cells) or Ebola (I can't begin to describe the rapid development of the virus once a host body has been attcked). It is not possible to say for sure that these are manufactured, as evidence of such thing would be hidden of course, nevertheless it is still a possibility.


--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer, the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear, permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it is gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path."


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: 1969 Discussion about aids [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #1605267 - 06/03/03 05:25 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Silly rabbit. SARS is from Mars!


--------------------


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OfflineWaveRider
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Re: 1969 Discussion about aids [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1607580 - 06/04/03 12:33 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Yep, I agree! Listen to the EXPERTS...  :grin:
 


--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer, the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear, permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it is gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path."


Edited by WaveRider (06/04/03 12:34 PM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
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Re: 1969 Discussion about aids [Re: WaveRider]
    #1609974 - 06/05/03 02:27 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Damn....glad to see you guys take this as seriously as you do.... this was an actual transcript and it has led to the development of many diferent biologicals but...aids....maybe... 300+ variations on anthrax, positivly


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OfflineWaveRider
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Re: 1969 Discussion about aids [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #1611095 - 06/05/03 12:59 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

It is not that no one is taken it seriously, it is just that there is no proof to support any opinions on the subject. It is like all those conspiracy theories: they might be true but there is no way of proving it.  :frown: 


--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer, the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear, permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it is gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path."


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Re: 1969 Discussion about aids [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #1611125 - 06/05/03 01:17 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I'm taking it as seriously as it needs to be taken, which isn't very.

We know the government has done research on biological weapons.

It is ridiculous to think they created AIDS, SARS, or ebola. Care to present a single piece of evidence that suggests this? Just one piece of evidence. I'm willing to bet you can't do it.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineWaveRider
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Re: 1969 Discussion about aids [Re: Phluck]
    #1611193 - 06/05/03 01:44 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


It is ridiculous to think they created AIDS, SARS, or ebola. Care to present a single piece of evidence that suggests this? Just one piece of evidence. I'm willing to bet you can't do it.




Of course I CAN"T show you evidence for this as any such evidence, especially if it is government development, would NOT BE RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC! But if you carefully annalyse the symptons, shape, species and cause/travel medium, it is possible to speculate as to the origins of the virus/bacteria. I mean don't you find it odd that most of these never before found diseases usually pop up in third world countries where the population is high, poor and often uneducated? To say that it is not a posibility is to be ignorant of the current state of military and genetic technology, as well as the fact that we are a people (humans in general) built upon the destruction and control of others.


--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer, the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear, permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it is gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path."


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: 1969 Discussion about aids [Re: WaveRider]
    #1611252 - 06/05/03 02:03 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I mean don't you find it odd that most of these never before found diseases usually pop up in third world countries where the population is high, poor and often uneducated?




Yeah, it sure is odd how they pop up in countries with the poorest living conditions, improper sewage removal, and generally unclean lifestyles optimal for disease. :tongue:

I think it much more likely that the diseases evolve and change because thats what they've been doing for thousands of years, and modern medicine forcing them to evolve at a faster rate.


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineWaveRider
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Re: 1969 Discussion about aids [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1611336 - 06/05/03 02:29 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


Yeah, it sure is odd how they pop up in countries with the poorest living conditions, improper sewage removal, and generally unclean lifestyles optimal for disease. :tongue:



Not all diseases evolve due to sanitary conditions. They may transmit with ease due to malnutrion. In the case of Ebola, for example, the virus cannot survive without a host body for more then 16 hours or so, meaning that the sanitary condition is irrelavent as the virus attacks only humans and uses monkeys as temporary hosts prior to human infection. Aids, in the other hand, has only been found in humans and laboratory primemates, a similar virus is found in the wild however this species will not infect humans and has some drastic differences to AIDS. 
Diseases that are effected by sanitary conditions are usually bacterium caused, however the most common of these are easely treated by antibiotics.

Quote:

I think it much more likely that the diseases evolve and change because thats what they've been doing for thousands of years, and modern medicine forcing them to evolve at a faster rate. 




If this was so then it would be logical to concluded that the disease would have shown up at a first world country where modern medicine is more developed. Further more there is no direct evolutionary evidence between these perticular species and wild species. Most species of disease causing viruses and bacteria are scientically categorized upon being found as to aid in the development of a cure. I have yet to read such evolutionary evidence.   


--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer, the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear, permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it is gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path."


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Anonymous

Re: 1969 Discussion about aids [Re: Phluck]
    #1612919 - 06/05/03 10:20 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

It is ridiculous to think they created AIDS, SARS, or ebola.




While there isn't any evidence that proves they did, is it really that far fetched to think it's possible? I agree, being totally set or even leaning in that direction may not be very bright, but do you actually consider it out of the realm of possibility?


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