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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: sunyata]
    #1605413 - 06/03/03 04:01 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Gotcha.



How? The only thing you appear to have is your head slipped in past your sphincter.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1605416 - 06/03/03 04:02 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

The rights I like ARE being trampled on as we speak. However, considering that the Constitution allows for Federal income tax, I don't really consider it a "right" not to pay it. As for where that money goes, I'd rather have it spent on feeding the Shrub's lust for war carnage.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Invisiblesunyata
nonexistentexistentialist
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 133
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1605418 - 06/03/03 04:04 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Gotcha. 



How? The only thing you appear to have is your head slipped in past your sphincter. 




OK. Here come the insults.  :smirk: Fuck you too, I'm going to work. 

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: silversoul7]
    #1605419 - 06/03/03 04:04 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Actually, there's a debate about whether the necessary number of states ever signed the ammendment allowing an income tax.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: sunyata]
    #1605425 - 06/03/03 04:06 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Not an insult, an observation.

And I notice you failed to answer what you mean by "Gotcha".


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineSolo
enthusiast
Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 257
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: sunyata]
    #1605954 - 06/03/03 06:41 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

And please shut the fuck up about how homelessness is such a great get rich quick scheme. Go give it a try for a year if it really sounds so wonderful to you.




I'm not sure if your talking to me or not but I'll respond anyway. Please point to where I said that homelessness is such a great get rich quick scheme. And for your information, in addition to working with the homeless, as well as other populations, I WAS FUCKING HOMELESS. So I think that I know much better than you about it. Got any other inflamatory statements to make? Try rational debate, if you have the aptitude.

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OfflineSolo
enthusiast
Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 257
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: silversoul7]
    #1605976 - 06/03/03 06:49 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Could be a good direction....Are there any pro-welfare posters here who are against the idea of requiring something productive (no, not babies) in exchange for assistance?



Generally, I'm in favor of a welfare-to-work program, but what about people with mental or physical disabilities who are unable to work?




I work with mentally ill adults as my full-time job and have been doing so for about a decade. As far as those that have been 'in the system' for the past twenty years or more, forget about it, they are not able to learn to be productive now. However, the vast majority of people with mental illness could work in a gradually more meaningful way if their SSI checks were tied to them actually showing up to work programs and participating. There should be incentives for productivity and disincentives for lack of productivity.... eventually leading to competitive employment. There is a small percentage of mentally ill who are not capable of participating in work programs but they are almost all (except in times of crisis) capable of participating in day programs focused on building daily living skills and skills in interacting with others. This will build self-esteem, self-confidence, self-respect, and a sence of normalcy and productivity.

As for physically disabled individuals, I don't really have any knowledge in that area so I will not comment other than to say if someone is physically not capable of doing work then they should get basic services to cover their needs. However, they should be involved in self-care to the extent that they are able.

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: Solo]
    #1606661 - 06/03/03 11:41 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Do you think it's right to hound and stress people with profound mental and physical problems for their entire lives? It would be a lot kinder to simply kill them and sell their body organs than enforcing them into slave labour. At least you could make a decent profit off them that way.

Voluntary work should be available if they wish to do any. If they don't they shouldn't be persecuted and hounded.



--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: Xlea321]
    #1606678 - 06/03/03 11:47 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Do you think it's right to hound and stress people with profound mental and physical problems for their entire lives? It would be a lot kinder to simply kill them and sell their body organs than enforcing them into slave labour. At least you could make a decent profit off them that way.

Voluntary work should be available if they wish to do any. If they don't they shouldn't be persecuted and hounded.



Do you think it's right to hound and stress people who work and produce? Voluntary charity should be allowed for those who wish to contribute. If they don't, they shouldn't be persecuted, hounded and forced into slave labor to support things which they don't want to.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: Xlea321]
    #1606909 - 06/04/03 01:23 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Do you think it's right to hound and stress people with profound mental and physical problems for their entire lives?


Dude, did you read his post? He said most people with mental and physical disabilities can work, with the exception of extreme, or in your lib-spun words, "profound" problems.
Quote:

Voluntary work should be available if they wish to do any. If they don't they shouldn't be persecuted and hounded.




First of all, STFU. By any chance, are you a woman, because you seem to have the logic of one.

In your system, you would make those who voluntarily work and and you force them to give a portion of their earnings, and if they don't comply, you hound and persecute them until they give in or are sent to jail. And you take those earings and give to those who have the option to work if they feel so inclined? Do you not see the problems with this.


Quote:

It would be a lot kinder to simply kill them and sell their body organs than enforcing them into slave labour. At least you could make a decent profit off them that way.




Dude, if you are going to make a joke, at least be funny, and try for your joke to have a little truth. Think about it, if we killed off all the poor and sold their organs, there would be an influx of organs which would decrease demand, which would lower prices. If we forced them into slave labor, we could benefit over a much longer period of time.

And don't pussyfoot out of this one by saying something gay like "I can see I'm wasting my time." Its pretty bitch-like when you do that.


RONO : seriously, don't edit this, Alex deserves so much more than this, I mean I don't care that I don't see eye to eye with him, its just he never brings anything, and always muds up the water round these parts.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: Skikid16]
    #1607479 - 06/04/03 09:46 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Alex deserves so much more than this

Calm the fuck down man. I'm a complete stranger on a shroom board who you've never even met. You act like I'm your nasty stepfather or something. If you don't like me quit replying to me and save yourself the effort. Don't get yourself all stressed up over something so unimportant.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: Xlea321]
    #1608515 - 06/04/03 04:00 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Classic. Good reply. Wouldn't expect anything less. Keep it up.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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OfflineSolo
enthusiast
Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 257
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: Xlea321]
    #1608526 - 06/04/03 04:04 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Alex has demonstrated to me that he does not wish to debate this topic. He would rather post in such a way as to attempt to stir people's emotions without addressing my posts in a concrete way. He avoids responding directly to the several points that I have made even though I was formerlly homeless myself and have 10 years experience working with the homeless as well as the mentally ill. He talks out his ass basically.

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OfflineJohnnyRespect
Nomadic Wanderer
Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 676
Loc: East Coast
Last seen: 20 years, 9 months
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: Solo]
    #1608582 - 06/04/03 04:21 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

SkiKid16 - Talking with alex is like talking to a little doll with a string that you pull. You can state as many facts as you like, but in the end, it's going to be some canned, irrelevant reply you get when the string is released.

Quote:


First of all, STFU. By any chance, are you a woman, because you seem to have the logic of one.

In your system, you would make those who voluntarily work and and you force them to give a portion of their earnings, and if they don't comply, you hound and persecute them until they give in or are sent to jail. And you take those earings and give to those who have the option to work if they feel so inclined? Do you not see the problems with this.




Brilliantly put! It's funny how when you look at the WHOLE picture of what the liberal agenda is, it makes no sense. No wonder our little alex prattles on about it so much.  *pulls the string in anticipation of Alex's next reply*

:smile:


--------------------
As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1608591 - 06/04/03 04:25 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Let's just stay on topic and not make this thread about someone's personality.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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OfflineJohnnyRespect
Nomadic Wanderer
Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 676
Loc: East Coast
Last seen: 20 years, 9 months
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: Evolving]
    #1608598 - 06/04/03 04:27 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

My agreement with his on-topic comment was the main reason for my post, I'll keep the personality attacks out in the future tho, sorry :-)


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As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: Solo]
    #1609793 - 06/04/03 11:29 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

without addressing my posts in a concrete way

Sorry but what "points" have you made that I havn't addressed? You said the mentally ill and physically handicapped should be made to work on the threat of "disincentives" if they don't. Explain how you do this without hounding and persecuting them through medical "tests" on threat of losing their welfare.

I've worked with mentally ill people too and the last thing they need is some asshole hounding them to get some soul-destroying job sweeping corridors. I can't think of a more effective way of destroying their health.

Perhaps you should look for another line of work?





--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: Xlea321]
    #1609813 - 06/04/03 11:37 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

You said the mentally ill and physically handicapped should be made to work on the threat of "disincentives" if they don't. Explain how you do this without hounding and persecuting them through medical "tests" on threat of losing their welfare.



So people should just be given things freely with no means of determining whether or not they really need it or can become productive. Bill Clinton throws on a coat he swipes from a bum and you would give him a check no questions asked. Determining whether or not someone is capable of supporting themselves is NOT hounding and persecuting, IT'S COMMON SENSE. But then, we have not come to expect that from your 'arguments.'


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: Evolving]
    #1609901 - 06/05/03 12:02 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Determining whether or not someone is capable of supporting themselves is NOT hounding and persecuting

Explain how. And explain what "disincentives" you apply if a physically or mentally ill person feels unable to clean an office building for 8 hours a day.

With a little "common sense" if possible...

Incidentally, could you also explain how you intend to pay these welfare to work employees? Would they be paid exactly the same as a professional doing the job? Or would business be able to use them as slave labour and put thousands of ordinary people out of work?



--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Whining about taxes [Re: Xlea321]
    #1609944 - 06/05/03 12:15 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I always hear how fantastic it is on welfare yet everyone i know on it is in extreme poverty. Somethings not quite clicking with reality. It's like the media reports of beggars who earn over ?1000 a day. Let me tell you something - if you earned ?1000 a day begging I'd be doing it tomorrow and so would everyone i know.

There's an awfully big difference between the medias representation of poor people and reality.




I used to play pool with a guy that was a real shark....he'd make $300-$400 in a 3 hour stretch at the table, the next day he had is 1 legged ass at the grocery store or a busy intersection witha disabled vet - will work for food sign and get an average of $5 off of every 10th person...2000 people a day it adds up quick...he had to give it up when he did an interview this a newpaper that gave away how much he made each day...the low end was $300.....and it doesnt include the govt assistance money and disability pay.....and the bastard never got near the military and freely admits it....

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