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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Rose]
    #18606019 - 07/24/13 07:49 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
It depends on the charges.





No it doesn't, the feds can try him for whatever they want.  In this case there isn't talk of a murder trial for the feds only because there's no applicable murder law he could be tried under, not because of double jeopardy.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: johnm214]
    #18606109 - 07/24/13 08:11 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah it does. Some things are not federal crimes.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: imachavel]
    #18606155 - 07/24/13 08:20 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Isn't it illegal for Trayvon to be re tried criminally in a higher court? That's called double jeopardy right? It can only go to higher court if it can't be re solved in a lower court, is my understanding



He would be tried in federal court.  A federal court isn't a higher court.  The federal government is a "separate sovereign" from the states, so they can both take a crack at a defendant without violating the double jeopardy clause.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Rose]
    #18606220 - 07/24/13 08:32 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Yeah it does. Some things are not federal crimes.





Yes, not everything is a crime, what does that have to do with whether double jeopardy prevents a trial in federal court and whether or not that is a function of the charges brought?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: imachavel] * 2
    #18606261 - 07/24/13 08:42 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Isn't it illegal for Trayvon to be re tried criminally in a higher court? That's called double jeopardy right? It can only go to higher court if it can't be re solved in a lower court, is my understanding



Trayvon is already being tried in a higher court.  That is if you believe in that shit.  I think he's just worm food.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18606776 - 07/24/13 10:16 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
Isn't it illegal for Zimmerman to be re tried criminally in a higher court? That's called double jeopardy right? It can only go to higher court if it can't be re solved in a lower court, is my understanding



Trayvon is already being tried in a higher court.  That is if you believe in that shit.  I think he's just worm food.




:facepalm:

fixed


--------------------
The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: imachavel]
    #18607830 - 07/25/13 03:08 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Well, Angela Corey's ship of fools has been exposed yet again to have witheld evidence adverse to its position- kinda like they did in the Zimmerman case.  The kicker is this is part of a wrongful termination suit but unrelated to the computer analyst she fired for blowing the whistle on her discovery violations in the zimmerman case.  I wonder if that guy has a cause of action for his firing?

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-07-23/news/os-angela-corey-evidence-violation-20130723_1_ben-kruidbos-state-attorney-angela-corey-george-zimmerman


The office of State Attorney Angela Corey faces potential sanctions and will have to pay thousands of dollars in taxpayer money after failing to turn over all documents in a wrongful termination case filed by a former employee.

It prompted a scolding by U.S. District Judge Timothy Corrigan and follows similar criticisms in the failed prosecution of George Zimmerman.

Julie Lyncker, a former clerk in the Nassau County office, says she was fired after she complained about the way former Assistant State Attorney Wesley White treated her.

Lyncker says her civil rights were violated and the firing was an illegal retaliation for reporting wrongdoing in the office.

She is asking for undisclosed damages.

Monday, Corrigan agreed to delay the case after lawyers representing the State Attorney's Office admitted they didn't provide opposing attorneys key evidence until Saturday.

A jury was scheduled to be picked Monday and the two sides were supposed to turn over all materials months ago.

The judge sent 40 potential jurors home and told Corey's attorneys that the office would have to recompense the court for the $2,500 it cost to bring the jurors in.

"This stuff hits the case where it lives," Corrigan said. "And it's hard to understand how this happens."

Corey also was accused of withholding key findings from Trayvon Martin's cellphone in the Zimmerman trial and faces potential sanctions there. Zimmerman was acquitted after claiming self-defense in Martin's death.


Leonard Hackett, a private attorney hired to defend the State Attorney's Office, confirmed he discovered emails discussing the firing of Lyncker between senior staff on Saturday while prepping a witness who was going to testify in the case.

He immediately turned them over to Joseph DeBelder, Lyncker's lead attorney.

But DeBelder said he needed to depose Corey, former Chief Assistant State Attorney Dan McCarthy and several other employees again because of what the emails said.

In previous depositions Corey and McCarthy both said McCarthy decided to fire Lyncker, and Corey wasn't involved.

But one of the emails turned over Saturday had McCarthy telling White that he gave the "Boss" an option to retain Lyncker and a second option that would fire her.

"Boss" could only be Corey, and the emails suggest that Corey made the final decision, DeBelder said.

White and McCarthy, who have both left the State Attorney's Office, declined to comment Monday. After the hearing, Hackett told the Times-Union that McCarthy made the final decision to fire Lyncker but declined to discuss the newly discovered emails.

Hackett said he couldn't guarantee there weren't other missing emails and Corrigan said that left him no choice but to delay the case.

"The thing about these emails is they are directly on point," Corrigan said.

DeBelder said he wants to question Corey and McCarthy a second time under oath and also wants to depose former information technology director Ben Kruidbos, who was fired by Corey after he testified last month about being concerned prosecutors did not turn over information to Zimmerman's defense team.

DeBelder said it appears the emails in question were collected and printed out by Kruidbos. White, who is planning to represent Kruidbos in a wrongful termination lawsuit against Corey, said his client would have no comment on his role in the Lyncker case.

Lawyers for Lyncker also want to be allowed to conduct a forensic review of the state attorney's email system to determine if there is more correspondence they should have. Whether that is allowed will be discussed at a future hearing.

Corrigan said the State Attorney's Office will have to pay the cost of all future depositions in the case because it was responsible for the delay.

In her lawsuit, Lyncker said White, who was then the top Nassau prosecutor, repeatedly asked Lyncker if she was having sex with former Nassau Sheriff Tommy Seagraves and tried to use Lyncker as a go between to improve his relationship with the sheriff.

Lyncker, who denies having an affair with Seagraves, said she refused to help White and complained about the way he was treating her to Corey and McCarthy, but they fired her after she complained.

Lawyers for Corey said Lyncker's complaints were looked into, but when they questioned other Nassau employees, they found out that Lyncker engaged in inappropriate behavior and was fired because of what was discovered.

That inappropriate behavior includes talking about sexual acts and people she'd like to have sex with in the office, slapping male colleagues on the butt and wearing inappropriate clothing.




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OfflineRoseM
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: johnm214]
    #18607891 - 07/25/13 03:43 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

When was it news that she sucks at her job? I forget.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Rose]
    #18607911 - 07/25/13 03:53 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: johnm214]
    #18608067 - 07/25/13 05:27 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
The office of State Attorney Angela Corey faces potential sanctions and will have to pay thousands of dollars in taxpayer money




Yah, that'll teach her.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Crystal G]
    #18608069 - 07/25/13 05:29 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
http://politicalblindspot.org/martial-arts-instructor-proves-george-zimmerman-lied/




Right. Proof.

:laugh2:

Rolling around on the grass with a partner is EXACTLY like rolling around with a guy pounding you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #18608080 - 07/25/13 05:36 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I'm sure Zimmerman had to physically demonstrate to the police exactly how the confrontation went down during the interrogation. Too bad we can't find pictures or video of this.


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Offlinerodfarva
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Crystal G]
    #18608125 - 07/25/13 06:01 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I suppose explaining that the amount of times you've been hit in the face
is directly related to how hard it is remember details of those events, is the best place to start.

That being said, the real explanation I want is how there was a unquestionable principal
of combat and/or some chronology that could be easily proven, and both the Florida State Atty's office, and
the legal defense all star team representing Zimmerman did not have the presence or need
to address it in court.


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Offlinerodfarva
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: rodfarva]
    #18608166 - 07/25/13 06:25 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

So we do not have to wonder what position Zimmerman was in when he drew and fired three shots.




Oh, and its a pretty settled fact only one shot was fired.
Sure, one "witness" said otherwise, this lacks credibility as she was in a closed building etc.
The police recovered the gun immediately and there was no window of time GZ could have reloaded
2 of 3 missing rounds unobserved. :rolleyes:


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Crystal G]
    #18608409 - 07/25/13 08:44 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
I'm sure Zimmerman had to physically demonstrate to the police exactly how the confrontation went down during the interrogation. Too bad we can't find pictures or video of this.




I'm sure Zimmerman didn't have to do anything of the sort.

Now whether he did or not is another question.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Crystal G] * 1
    #18609729 - 07/25/13 03:32 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

/sigh

Here we go again.

http://politicalblindspot.org/martial-arts-instructor-proves-george-zimmerman-lied/

Sparring with a partner is nothing like being in fight-or-flight terror when someone is sitting on you, raining punches on your head, and breaking your nose. Adrenaline plays a factor in a real-life fight that is absent in a sparring exercise with a partner.

I would wager that if the guy on his back in those pictures wanted to bad enough, he would be able to force his hand between the side of his body and the other guy's leg. For one thing, he would have the advantage of leverage and for another, both men were wet the night TM was shot because it was raining. This would lubricate the hand, further easing its insertion between TM's leg and GZ's body.

Now, the first thing to notice in that link is this GLARING error of fact which renders that entire piece a sophomoric farce of beclowning. (Note: I love that word).

Quote:

So we do not have to wonder what position Zimmerman was in when he drew and fired three shots.



Only one shot was fired. This is not in dispute. All parties agree to this. Where the fuck did this sorry excuse for a truth-seeker get his misinformation? It is a first-class source. I'd love to bookmark it.

From the link:

Quote:

Zimmerman’s defense, however, repeatedly insisted that it was the much skinnier Martin on top.



Except that is was an eye witness with no bone to pick who said this under oath, not the defense.

From the link:

Quote:

This position is standard for all systems of grappling, including the MMA instruction that George Zimmerman was trained in.



Except that TM was also skilled in MMA.

His cell phone contained a hidden password-protected section with text messages in which he boasted of his fighting skills, videos of him in street fights, texts from his brother asking him to "teach me to fight", and texts from his mother asking him to stop fighting with people.

And relevant whether you like it or not, that hidden area in his cell phone also contained pictures of guns and texts of him attempting to illegally buy guns. Let's not also forget the backpack TM was caught red-handed with at school which contained "burglary tools and women's jewelery". When the police confiscated these items, TM did not protest they were his. And I doubt he was cross-dressing in women's jewelry after school.

GZ stopped TM precisely because there had been numerous house burglaries in the neighborhood in recent months, and witnesses described the burglars as "young black males". This is a description TM fit perfectly. GZs suspicion was fully justified, reasonable, and legal, as was his decision to confront TM. The illegal part began when TM attacked GZ after getting butthurt that someone would dare ask a negro a question.

Finally, let's not forget that TM's own girlfriend testified that the athletic TM got clean away from GZ at one point and then he decided not to continue home. At some point AFTER TM GOT CLEAN AWAY, she heard the beginning of a verbal confrontation before the phone went dead.

Again, this is the testimony of TM's own girlfriend and is pretty conclusive evidence that TM got away, then turned back and confronted GZ verbally. It's not unreasonable to follow that to the logical conclusion that TM then attacked GZ given the eye witness testimony to that effect.

How many times must we rehash the facts before people will stop reading biased news diarrhea and coming to pre-conclusions based on propaganda, white guilt, and emotion instead of the known facts of the case?

Maybe I'll put this post in my journal so I don't have to type it all out another 20 times before this witch hunt dies down.:mad2:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Diploid]
    #18609821 - 07/25/13 03:56 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:


I would wager that if the guy on his back in those picture wanted to bad enough, he would be able to force his hand between the side of his body and the other guy's leg. For one thing, he would have the advantage of leverage and for another, both men were wet the night TM was shot because it was raining. This would lubricate the hand, further easing its insertion between TM's leg and GZ's body.




In the reenactment, Zimmerman shows that the gun was in an internal holster that was on the back of his right side.  This seems like it would be even easier to get to if someone was mounting you.  All you'd have to do is twist a bit and grab the gun- it wouldn't be blocked by Martin's knee.



Quote:

Now, the first thing to notice in that link is this GLARING error of fact which renders that entire piece a sophomoric farce of beclowning. (Note: I love that word).

Quote:

So we do not have to wonder what position Zimmerman was in when he drew and fired three shots.



Only one shot was fired. This is not in dispute. All parties agree to this. Where the fuck did this sorry excuse for a truth-seeker get his misinformation? It is a first-class source. I'd love to bookmark it.






Yeah, that really suggests the author had no idea what they were talking about.



Quote:


Quote:

This position is standard for all systems of grappling, including the MMA instruction that George Zimmerman was trained in.



Except that TM was also skilled in MMA.







Plus, the article is misleading by suggesting that being straddled is some sort of tactical position rather than the prelude to a beat down.  By saying its "standard for all systems of grappling" the author neglects to mention that its standard to mount someone, not to be mounted.  The trial made this obvious point clearly when the gym trainer testified.


Quote:


How many times must we rehash the facts before people will stop reading biased news diarrhea and coming to pre-conclusions based on propaganda, white guilt, and emotion instead of the known facts of the case?

Maybe I'll put this post in my journal so I don't have to type it all out another 20 times before this witch hunt dies down.:mad2:




Nope :noway:

Its easier to stick with the position I arived at through emotionalism rather than adjust it to the facts.




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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: johnm214]
    #18609847 - 07/25/13 04:03 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

"Facts? We ain't got no facts. We don't need no facts! I don't have to show you any stinkin' facts!"


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #18632520 - 07/30/13 07:27 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Obama's sleezary knows no bounds. It appears he was "for it before he was against it".

Obama co-sponsored legislation strengthening Illinois' "stand your ground" law

CHICAGO - This past week President Obama publicly urged the reexamination of state self-defense laws (see remarks below). However, nine years ago then-State Sen. Barack Obama actually co-sponsored a bill that strengthened Illinois' 1961 "stand your ground" law.

The Obama-sponsored bill (SB 2386) enlarged the state's 1961 law by shielding the person who was attacked from being sued in civil court by perpetrators or their estates when a "stand your ground" defense is used in protecting his or her person, dwelling or other property.

The bill unanimously passed the Democrat-controlled Illinois Senate on March 25, 2004 with only one comment, and passed the Democrat-controlled Illinois House in May 2004 with only two votes in opposition. Then-Governor Rod Blagojevich (D) signed it into law.

http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2013/07/obama-strongly-supported-stand-your-ground-when-in-illinois-senate.html

Bill text.
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=09300SB2386sam001&GA=93&SessionId=3&DocTypeId=SB&DocNum=2386&GAID=3

Bill status (note 3/25/2004 Senate Added as Co-Sponsor Sen. Barack Obama).
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=2386&GAID=3&DocTypeID=SB&LegID=&SessionID=3&SpecSess=&Session=&GA=93


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblememes
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #18633281 - 07/30/13 12:52 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

flip flopper!!!!!!!!!


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