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Offlinehongomon
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Registered: 04/14/02
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War on Drugs a secondary issue?
    #1596478 - 05/31/03 04:29 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

This is the final comment to a post by pinksharkmark in a post on page two of the FCC thread. I hope he doesn't mind me moving it to a new thread.

To get back to my original point, there are many (too many) contributors here who become apoplectic at the thought that government might dare to dictate what they may put in their personal orifices (i.e. bong-fed airways and various orifices lined with mucus membranes), but seem sublimely indifferent to what government dictates they may put in their bank accounts. Do you not find this disconnection just a tad odd? Is it not true that before one can buy dope to smoke (or the seeds and soil and lights and fertilizer that the do-it-yourselfers require to produce their own crop), one must first earn (and keep) the money required to pay for the dope?

First of all, thank you for clarifying what you meant by putting things into orifices. There may be children present.

Now this would be a good time to put this forum in context. It's a forum for politics, activism, and law--and a pretty good one, but it's at a website about hallucinogenic mushrooms. With few exceptions, the posters here share in common a direct exposure to the WOD (or their own nation's version), and its tendency to violate personal liberty. Many here have been arrested and fined and/or jailed for drug offenses. Even more know someone who has. Probably worse than the initial fine/jail time is the criminal record, which can follow a person around for life. (And, incidentally, affect how much money gets to the bank account.)

Nevertheless, I for one accept your grouping the WOD issue into a lesser-important, "subsidiary" class of freedoms. I might also throw in the issue of how much money one is allowed to put in his or her bank account. Is your comparison of the WOD to how much money one is allowed to put away based on your assumptions as a laissez-faire capitalist that tax is almost invariably theft? If so, this is more a matter of priority.

I say they both go in the subsidiary group. There is only one fundamental group and Wendell Berry hints at it here.

hongomon

(note: some sarcasm above)


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
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Re: War on Drugs a secondary issue? [Re: hongomon]
    #1596714 - 05/31/03 06:40 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The WOD is a first class issue. Consciousness is what life is all about. Our government is throwing us in jail for having drugs that produce unapproved states of consciousness.





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Mp3 of the month: BLC - I Don't Wanna Go



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Offlinenugsarenice
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Registered: 06/05/00
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Re: War on Drugs a secondary issue? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1596784 - 05/31/03 07:37 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Forcing views on others is a prehistoric ritual, that no animal is let free from,


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: War on Drugs a secondary issue? [Re: hongomon]
    #1596910 - 05/31/03 09:26 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Depends on what the issue is for you. If it's just to be able to use drugs openly without worrying about getting caught, then it's not that important an issue, but drugs are used as an excuse to erode freedom and controll people.

Marijuana and psychedelic prohibition has always been more about locking up dissidents and nonconformists than preventing use. If they could just arrest you for your thoughts or words they would.


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: War on Drugs a secondary issue? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1597040 - 05/31/03 11:14 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

drugs free your thoughts. they do arrest you for your thoughts


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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Offlinedanelectro
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Re: War on Drugs a secondary issue? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1597236 - 06/01/03 12:57 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Now they can arrest you without trial, lawyers, or even contact to the outside world. Within 20 years America will make Stalinist purges look like slap on the wrist. The only drugs that should be illegal are crank and sherm. Because they cause hurt to others. Crank labs blow up, tweekers steal and kill, and bopheads roam the streets looking to cause violence, that is what the war on drugs needs to focus on, not taking my blunt and skateboard. The cops aren't all fascist pigs, but the system sure the hell is.


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We should really love each other, in peace and harmony. Instead we're fussing and fighting, like we ain't supposed to be.-Bob Marley
The people, the still sleeping mass which it was necessary to mobilize and its vanguard, the guerrillas.
-Che


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OfflinePhred
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Re: War on Drugs a secondary issue? [Re: hongomon]
    #1597759 - 06/01/03 07:06 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

hongomon writes:

Nevertheless, I for one accept your grouping the WOD issue into a lesser-important, "subsidiary" class of freedoms.

The freedom to ingest consciousness-altering compounds is to be considered a secondary (or subsidiary, or "dependent", or "less important") freedom only in the sense that before it may be exercised the primary freedom (the freedom to attempt to continue to survive) must first be exercised, and exercised successfully at that.

Is your comparison of the WOD to how much money one is allowed to put away based on your assumptions as a laissez-faire capitalist that tax is almost invariably theft?

Pretty close, but note that the government does much more to restrict your freedom to support your continued existence than merely seize a substantial chunk of your income. Prohibitory regulations play a major role in limiting your freedom to support yourself -- see the current FCC debate over whether or not someone may own both a TV station and a newspaper in the same city as just one example.

If so, this is more a matter of priority. I say they both go in the subsidiary group.

Incorrect. In today's society where the majority of people support themselves not by producing from scratch each and every item required for their own continued existence, but instead through practising the "division of labor" concept and then trading the products of their efforts for currency, the reality is that their money is in essence concretized effort.

When government declares that your effort must be directed not at maintaining and furthering your own existence it is in fact violating the one fundamental right possessed by all humans. If one wishes to speak of priorities, clearly the first priority is to continue to exist.

There is only one fundamental group and Wendell Berry hints at it here.

I read that link all the way through, and if Berry is hinting at a fundamental group of freedoms, the hint is a subtle one. What is your understanding of the "fundamental group of freedoms" he is trying to define?

pinky


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