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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Knife sharpening?
#15943394 - 03/13/12 06:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have some really old and pitted kitchen knives so I bought one these three grade (coarse-150/medium-300/fine-450 grit )diamond sharpening kits. I got the pits out so they were looking pretty good. The edge was smooth, but dull. Much later the edge was still dull and smooth. Got out my Swiss Army pocket knife which was fairly sharp and could cut paper, but also had some pits. Now the blade is smooth, but dull. Good job! 
I know this isn't rocket science so I read 10 articles and watched several U-Tube vids on sharpening knives. I tried light pressure, heavy pressure, circular motion, straight motion, sharpening both sides, sharpening one side, 10 degree angle, 20 degree angle and so on. One method at a time - not all at once. Three hours later my knives as smooth, but dull. Tried different grades of sand paper, a brick, some river stones, ARRRRGGGGGHHHHH! WTF am I missing?
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Prisoner#1
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the wire edge. when you sharpen a blade you have a little roll of steel that hangs on. that is probably the source of the dull
make use of a strop
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OrgoneConclusion
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Tried stropping with leather and with steel; same-same.
I just used a handheld Smith's sharpenener with the tiny crossed ceramic sharpeners and I can cut again, but it seems really bad for the blades leaving them somewhat jagged; a little more like a serrated rather than a razor.
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Prisoner#1
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are you wetting the diamond stones?
work them as if you're trying to shave the diamonds off.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Tried them dry first, then wet them and tried again. No diff. I have a houseful of butter knives now. Maybe I gave up too soon, but I got 20 year old pits and chips out fairly quickly so I know I was taking off a good amount of metal.
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Prisoner#1
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bring your stuff to my house and I'll sharpen them up for you, give you a few lessons in dealing with them. it's really an art to do it by hand
some years back someone developed the 'scary sharp' system which works pretty well, it uses 3M micron abrasive papers but standard wet/dry sandpapers can be used, make sure you arent rounding the edge when you sharpen. it's easy to do without even noticing
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OrgoneConclusion
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I am certain I am rounding them. I tried using less pressure and got a better, but still half-assed edge, but nowhere where I want to be. Will check out your video.
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Prisoner#1
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practice on a crap knife when you're doing the secondary bevel, maybe rest it on your thumb while you try and shave the diamonds off your stones
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OrgoneConclusion
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OK, I finally got a decent edge, not professional, buy way better. Some of my knives were so warped and pitted and using cheap steel they just should have been thrown away.
Right or wrong, here is what I did:
1. Focused more on one side than the other to prevent me from rounding the edge.
2. Used small circular motions rather than long sweeps.
3. Lowered the angle to something more like 5 to 8 degrees on one side and almost flat (< 4 degrees?) on the other.
4. Decreased pressure as I progressed.
5. Finished up on 600 grade wet sand paper on a flat surface.
With one heavy knife, I can now cut paper. Not effortlesly like a razor blade, but pretty easily without swiping, hacking or tearing. Compared to what it was, it is plenty sharp enough for normal kitchen duty (and for the occasional night-time intruder).
Thanks for all your input.
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Grapefruit
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I don't know why you'd want to use stones for kitchen work, just use round steel, it's way easier and faster whilst still being plenty sharp enough IMO.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Knife sharpening? [Re: Grapefruit] 1
#15959066 - 03/17/12 10:23 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Steels help to keep an edge, not give a new edge to dull, worn-out and pitted knives.
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Prisoner#1
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: 1. Focused more on one side than the other to prevent me from rounding the edge.
not uncommon but it will cause your knife to cut a little oddly after a bit of sharpening that way
Quote:
2. Used small circular motions rather than long sweeps.
the long stroke is better to maintain an even bevel especially if you use a guide
Quote:
3. Lowered the angle to something more like 5 to 8 degrees on one side and almost flat (< 4 degrees?) on the other.
wonky can be good I guess, your edge will be thin and brittle if your secondary bevel is at 9-12 degrees, you want around 25-30 degrees for decent edge holding and razor sharpness
Quote:
With one heavy knife, I can now cut paper.
would you like to shave with my sword?
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cyanophilus
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use one of those round kitchen honing rods to do the final edge. a stone will get u down to a sharp edge but it will bend over making it feel dull even if its truly sharp.
get a honing rod and do 4 one way 4 the other, 3 one way, 3 the other, down to 1. then go back and forth 1 on each direction til you get the edge straight. to check your work, hold the knife straight up with the blade facing you and run your thumb left and right over the edge of the blade. whichever side feels like its catching your thumb more needs to be honed better.
dont let the bed edge discourage you from knife sharpening, but unless you have had a shit ton of practice then use a honing rod to finish up. I almost guarantee this might be whats wrong.
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trigger
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keep in mind to make the edge disappear, that is there should be no visible edge on the cutting blade.
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Icelander
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I can usually get a good edge even on my filet knife with a diamond stone. You're just old and shaky with bad eyesight and poor skills. Nothing to worry about.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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LunarEclipse
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Re: Knife sharpening? [Re: Icelander]
#16056317 - 04/07/12 10:09 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Knife Edge
i use stones start coarse go hard using a vigorous circular motion with lots of sharpening oil and cleaned often can slice the ass off a gnat without touching a wing.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Icelander
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Fucking absolutely awesome video!!!!!!
If I could play like that I'd just buy new knives when the old ones got dull.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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LunarEclipse
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Re: Knife sharpening? [Re: Icelander]
#16081195 - 04/12/12 04:41 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Fucking absolutely awesome video!!!!!!
If I could play like that I'd just buy new knives when the old ones got dull.
Knives get dull in the package.
And watch your language young man.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Centerfinger
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Sharpening is determined by the original bevel and edge. Sounds like they are older knives so they could be a convex edge (kinda rounded/ bullet shape), if that is the case then I would start with a flat piece of wood and some 1000 grit sandpaper. You will have to not use much pressure and gently roll up to the knife edge. Start with one side and repeat until you feel a slight burr on the other side, then make a couple of passes on the side with the burr. Build up a burr and then remove it. After the sandpaper move to a leather strop loaded with rubbing compound and do it all again. Look up convex knife sharpening vids to get the technique (knivesshipfree.com has a good video). Flat grinds/edges are different, but will eventually go convex after use and sharpening. I don't sharpen by hand too much anymore, I just stick a micron belt on my knife grinder (not a grinder, but more of a super powered belt sander) that I use to make knives.
Good luck.
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Shroomism
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I used to use a diamond stone but then I got a nice set of professional Japanese water stones and I'll never look back.
Knife sharpening is definitely an art and takes lots of practice to get perfect. Took me a while to get it right where I could get a razor sharp edge.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Knife sharpening? [Re: Shroomism]
#16216780 - 05/11/12 08:12 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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I use waterstones myself, up to an 8000 grit, I originally got them for chisels and plane blades but found them indispensable for knives and now my swords and even my machete
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r00tuuu123
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Hey pris I know this is an old thread but do you think 600 1000 and 1500 wet dry might work ?
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Shroomism
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sandpaper can definitely work well, best to use the automotive type meant for metal
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r00tuuu123
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Re: Knife sharpening? [Re: Shroomism]
#18769761 - 08/28/13 06:24 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: sandpaper can definitely work well, best to use the automotive type meant for metal
Thanks I have several grits of automotive up to 2500 that I used to finish snowboards just what would the best starter be "the lightest I have is 600 and I do have some 140 around" so which would you choose?
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Shroomism
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Well I'd say depending how dull the blade is, I'd probably start with the grittiest one you have first and work your way up I would go something like: 140-220, 600, 1200, 2000.. strop. With 2000 you can probably get a mirror edge. If the blade is already pretty convex you could probably start with 600, but if you need to re-profile it, start with the grittiest
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torpex
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Re: Knife sharpening? [Re: Shroomism]
#19042911 - 10/27/13 09:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I find diamond sharpeners to be the absolute best. Sandpaper really doesn't cut it for a lot of the harder knives.
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Shroomism
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Re: Knife sharpening? [Re: torpex]
#19108967 - 11/09/13 03:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sandpaper works fine for a lot of knives.. especially for carbon steel. It's not the best but it gets the job done well enough. Diamond sharpeners are good.. but if we are talking absolute best.... Japanese water stones all day long
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tropidolaemus
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Re: Knife sharpening? [Re: Shroomism]
#19116558 - 11/10/13 06:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I use what I originally bought as "crok stix" back in the day. 2 sets of sticks 1 ceramic and I am not sure the composition of the other. They sit in a wooden base with 2 separate angles to choose from in order to put a sharp edge on the blade. Been using this type for 30 years and always have razor sharp knives. Just 2 cents
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mannextdoor
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To sharp every of my knifes I use a wet Stone, called "Belgische Brocken" here in europe. After a few rounds, the knifes are so sharp that you can shave the hairs of your arms away just like using a razorblade. Ok, a lot depends on the "how" you sharp your knives: angel during sharpng and so on. Also, it´s a good idea to polisch the grind of the sharpened knife with a very fine grained stone. I am very happy with this method (but it´s a lot of work) :-)
MND
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bootster

Registered: 02/22/11
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"vigorous circular motion" 
I have a couple of one inch sandpaper machines and only use convex knives (except for kitchen knives). I use a slack belt with various degrees of grit. Usually I only touch up a knife and that I do with 60 micron grit sandpaper. You can't tell what side is the back and what side is the abrasive side. You wouldn't think that a grit of such a fineness to it would do anything to metal but the knives that I sharpen are RC 59-63. That's some hard ass steel. It takes me about 30 seconds to get a shaving sharp edge on any of my hunting knives (before the rouge charged up strop). I don't let my knives become dull but some friends have borrowed one of my knives and the cat is out of the bag. I may have to start with something a little more abrasive to true up the edge before i start on the 60 micron but it takes no time at all to get a shaving (or scary) sharp edge.
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Spore-hunter
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Steel was possibly annealed?
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Mariomushroom
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There is a little tool you can buy for £5 or so, its got 2 magnetic parts that have diamond grit on so you get an even edge on both sides, and as other posters have mentioned stropping the bur off after is essential for a razor sharp finish
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Phegnomeanon
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I use Arkansas stones got a whole bunch. The best and easiest technique I’ve ever used is to pretend the stone is wood and you are a slicing off a very thin sliver. Then hold that angle while pushing the blade backwards
Edited by Phegnomeanon (09/03/18 04:08 PM)
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bootster

Registered: 02/22/11
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Ok guys (and gals), I have found a product that I have waited to try, and I have now found the holy grail of knife sharpeners. I have just used the Lansky Knife Sharpening System.
This system is not a gimmick. It is the easiest, most comprehensive sharpening system I have ever tried. It has brought all of my knives back to a scary sharp state that will impress you when you use it, every time. I was very skeptical at first, and am actually just mad at myself for not trying it sooner. Every time I pull out a knife to test it's sharpness by shaving paper, It just puts a satisfying smile on my face.
I an really going to go out on a limb here and promise you that this system is the most efficient and easy to use system on the market, that I have tried anyway. I have been trying to perfect the art of freehand sharpening, and while I consider myself good at it, I can't hold a candle to the results I get using the Lansky system. The last stage is to use a leather strop. I actually have one that is part of the Lansky, and it works really well, but I finish up with a large, charged leather strop. By charged, I mean charged with a buffing compound that you rub into the leather that allows the leather to be sort of a polishing compound that really, really finishes the sharpening results to a "scary sharp" result. You won't be disappointed if you buy a Lansky system.
The diamond set is a great set for forming an initial edge, and the regular stones can be utilized to do the intermediate steps of progressively using finer grit stones to get the desired results. I am very, very surprised that I have waited so long to get my knives this sharp with a foolproof system.
Don't wait any longer and invest in a set today, and you can thank me later. Again, this is not a gimmick, and those that know me knows that I wouldn't steer you in the wrong direction. If anyone already uses this system, please tell us how you like it. I am curious as to find out how other members here like their Lansky sets.


This knife is a very, very sharp knife. You can see the uniformity of the edge by the picture. It is aligned perfectly, and finished up on the strop. It is a thing of beauty, and every time I use it, it puts a smile on my face due to how impressive it is when used.
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